[Xenomai-help] HELP!!

[Xenomai-help] HELP!!

[Roland Tollenaar]

Hi,

Sorry about the subject but I badly need some advice.

I have tried 2 different makes of remote IO over CAN to achieve my 1ms
control loop. The makes are WAGO and Schleicher. These are industrial
modules that link to buscouplers (in my case CAN) and make the IO
available to andy device that can talk CAN. In this case my xenomai'd PC
platform.

However both makes (and all others I have contacted) have bus couplers
which are too slow to achieve this. 5ms is about the best they can do.
The engineering departments (who were not aware of this restriction)
agree that it is not a fundamental CAN problem but a matter of their
hardware not being able to respond fast enough.

I have given up hope of finding suppliers who can supply industrial (the
latter is important) equipment that will give me what I am looking for
based on CAN. So I am willing to settle on another bus protocol (I will
still be using CAN for other sensors which are responding fast enough on
CAN) for the remote IO.

Can anyone tell me what companies can supply remote IO that is fast enough.

Can anyone comment on the use of RTNET (real time ethernet I believe)
with xenomai. I ahve not seen any evidence of it being alove on this
mailing list.


Thanks,

Roland

Re: [Xenomai-help] HELP!!

[Jan Kiszka]

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Roland Tollenaar wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Sorry about the subject but I badly need some advice.
> 
> I have tried 2 different makes of remote IO over CAN to achieve my 1ms
> control loop. The makes are WAGO and Schleicher. These are industrial
> modules that link to buscouplers (in my case CAN) and make the IO
> available to andy device that can talk CAN. In this case my xenomai'd PC
> platform.
> 
> However both makes (and all others I have contacted) have bus couplers
> which are too slow to achieve this. 5ms is about the best they can do.
> The engineering departments (who were not aware of this restriction)
> agree that it is not a fundamental CAN problem but a matter of their
> hardware not being able to respond fast enough.
> 
> I have given up hope of finding suppliers who can supply industrial (the
> latter is important) equipment that will give me what I am looking for
> based on CAN. So I am willing to settle on another bus protocol (I will
> still be using CAN for other sensors which are responding fast enough on
> CAN) for the remote IO.
> 
> Can anyone tell me what companies can supply remote IO that is fast enough.

Vendor: Hey, CAN is slow anyway, why should _we_ hurry? ;)

(Can't help, sorry)

> 
> Can anyone comment on the use of RTNET (real time ethernet I believe)
> with xenomai. I ahve not seen any evidence of it being alove on this
> mailing list.
> 

Maybe you missed the separated lists? rtnet-user-at-lists.sourceforge.net

But note in advance that RTnet for I/O coupling requires RTnet I/O
coupler that you cannot buy as there are no commercial ones. You would
have to embed it on your own. Maybe you then rather want to use the
Ethercat MasterLibrary with RTnet to attach Ethercat I/O nodes.

Jan


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Re: [Xenomai-help] HELP!!

[Roland Tollenaar]

Hi Jan,

> Maybe you missed the separated lists? rtnet-user-at-lists.sourceforge.net

I did. Sorry. I think you even mentioned it before. Sorry again.

> 
> But note in advance that RTnet for I/O coupling requires RTnet I/O
> coupler that you cannot buy as there are no commercial ones. You would
> have to embed it on your own. Maybe you then rather want to use the
> Ethercat MasterLibrary with RTnet to attach Ethercat I/O nodes.

This looks like it may be a break. I had just found ethercat before this
mail came in. By the look of things (very early) the hardware (Beckhoff)
will give the IO and according to the vendor (who I have limited faith
in by now) should make the time.

According to the same vendor (whom I have limited faith in) I can use
the standard ethernet hardware in PC's for ethercat. Unlike Powerlink
(B&R whom I am at war with and also have limited faith in :)) which
requires a special powerlink card.

But my next problem will be to get xenomai to work with ethercat. You
say I can try using the Ethercat Master library with RTnet. But why
would I need RTnet? How will the layering look in this case? IOW what
functionality will the ethernet master library provide and what will the
RTnet provide?

Has anyone done this before?

Thanks.

Roland.

> 
> Jan
> 

Re: [Xenomai-help] HELP!!

[Jan Kiszka]

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Roland Tollenaar wrote:
> Hi Jan,
> 
>> Maybe you missed the separated lists? rtnet-user-at-lists.sourceforge.net
> 
> I did. Sorry. I think you even mentioned it before. Sorry again.
> 
>>
>> But note in advance that RTnet for I/O coupling requires RTnet I/O
>> coupler that you cannot buy as there are no commercial ones. You would
>> have to embed it on your own. Maybe you then rather want to use the
>> Ethercat MasterLibrary with RTnet to attach Ethercat I/O nodes.
> 
> This looks like it may be a break. I had just found ethercat before this
> mail came in. By the look of things (very early) the hardware (Beckhoff)
> will give the IO and according to the vendor (who I have limited faith
> in by now) should make the time.
> 
> According to the same vendor (whom I have limited faith in) I can use
> the standard ethernet hardware in PC's for ethercat. Unlike Powerlink
> (B&R whom I am at war with and also have limited faith in :)) which
> requires a special powerlink card.
> 
> But my next problem will be to get xenomai to work with ethercat. You
> say I can try using the Ethercat Master library with RTnet. But why
> would I need RTnet? How will the layering look in this case? IOW what
> functionality will the ethernet master library provide and what will the
> RTnet provide?
> 
> Has anyone done this before?

[being in a hurry]
Check the links on www.rtnet.org to the related project at FMTC. They
even have mailing lists for detail questions.

The setup will be: Xenomai (basis) + RTnet (RT-NIC driver, core network
stack) + EML (userspace lib with Ethercat master code) + Your App
(linked against Xenomai and EML).

Jan




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Re: [Xenomai-help] HELP!!

[Klaas Gadeyne]

On Wed, 2 May 2007, Jan Kiszka wrote:
[...]
>>> But note in advance that RTnet for I/O coupling requires RTnet I/O
>>> coupler that you cannot buy as there are no commercial ones. You would
>>> have to embed it on your own. Maybe you then rather want to use the
>>> Ethercat MasterLibrary with RTnet to attach Ethercat I/O nodes.
>>
>> This looks like it may be a break. I had just found ethercat before this
>> mail came in. By the look of things (very early) the hardware (Beckhoff)
>> will give the IO and according to the vendor (who I have limited faith
>> in by now) should make the time.
>>
>> But my next problem will be to get xenomai to work with ethercat. You
>> say I can try using the Ethercat Master library with RTnet. But why
>> would I need RTnet? How will the layering look in this case? IOW what
>> functionality will the ethernet master library provide and what will the
>> RTnet provide?
>>
>> Has anyone done this before?

We did.  We used it to drive a 2-dof table.

> [being in a hurry]
> Check the links on www.rtnet.org to the related project at FMTC. They
> even have mailing lists for detail questions.
>
> The setup will be: Xenomai (basis) + RTnet (RT-NIC driver, core network
> stack) + EML (userspace lib with Ethercat master code) + Your App
> (linked against Xenomai and EML).

<http://www.mail-archive.com/rtnet-users@domain.hid>

Klaas

[Xenomai-help] Antwort: HELP!!

[Andreas Erler]

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Hi Roland,

I do not want to make big advertisment here in this forum, but have a look 
at our webpage, we have a lot of buscouplers for external io. (CAN, 
Ethernet Powerlink, ...)
Also maybe interesting for you is, that we are working on a xenomai driver 
for ethernet powerlink (http://www.ethernet-powerlink.org/) which will be 
finished in a few days...

Andy

Tel: +43 (0)7716/20136 - 11
Email: andreas.erler@domain.hid
http://www.br-automation.com

_________________________________________
Firmenbuchnummer: Landesgericht Ried im Innkreis / FN 111651 v



Roland Tollenaar <rwatollenaar@domain.hid> 
Gesendet von: xenomai-help-bounces@domain.hid
02.05.2007 15:12
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[Xenomai-help] HELP!!






Hi,

Sorry about the subject but I badly need some advice.

I have tried 2 different makes of remote IO over CAN to achieve my 1ms
control loop. The makes are WAGO and Schleicher. These are industrial
modules that link to buscouplers (in my case CAN) and make the IO
available to andy device that can talk CAN. In this case my xenomai'd PC
platform.

However both makes (and all others I have contacted) have bus couplers
which are too slow to achieve this. 5ms is about the best they can do.
The engineering departments (who were not aware of this restriction)
agree that it is not a fundamental CAN problem but a matter of their
hardware not being able to respond fast enough.

I have given up hope of finding suppliers who can supply industrial (the
latter is important) equipment that will give me what I am looking for
based on CAN. So I am willing to settle on another bus protocol (I will
still be using CAN for other sensors which are responding fast enough on
CAN) for the remote IO.

Can anyone tell me what companies can supply remote IO that is fast 
enough.

Can anyone comment on the use of RTNET (real time ethernet I believe)
with xenomai. I ahve not seen any evidence of it being alove on this
mailing list.


Thanks,

Roland


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Re: [Xenomai-help] Antwort: HELP!!

[Jan Kiszka]

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Andreas Erler wrote:
> Hi Roland,
> 
> I do not want to make big advertisment here in this forum, but have a look 
> at our webpage, we have a lot of buscouplers for external io. (CAN, 
> Ethernet Powerlink, ...)

Follow-ups will still be welcome when they touch concrete Xenomai
interaction, design- or implementation-wise.

> Also maybe interesting for you is, that we are working on a xenomai driver 
> for ethernet powerlink (http://www.ethernet-powerlink.org/) which will be 
> finished in a few days...

Interesting. That just proves my theses again: never talk to
representatives of larger companies on fairs, they don't have the right
answers on thrilling questions anyway ;). My question to your colleagues
at the Hannover Messe regarding precisely such an activity was answered
100% the opposite way, only pointing out a solution for some commercial
real-time Linux.

Anyway, this is nice to hear! I'm looking forward to see how you
realised it, hoping it's GPL and uses RTDM.

Jan


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