[lm-sensors] k8temp weirdness, it8716 questions

[lm-sensors] k8temp weirdness, it8716 questions

[Udo van den Heuvel]

I am running Fedora 8 on a Gigabyte m56s-s3 board with an AMD X2 BE-2350.
Running sensors gives me:

# sensors
k8temp-pci-00c3
Adapter: PCI adapter
temp1:        -9°C
temp2:       -20°C
temp3:       -18°C
temp4:       -14°C

it8716-isa-0290
Adapter: ISA adapter
VCore:     +0.99 V  (min =  +0.00 V, max =  +4.08 V)
VDDR:      +1.89 V  (min =  +0.00 V, max =  +4.08 V)
+3.3V:     +3.30 V  (min =  +0.00 V, max =  +4.08 V)
+5V:       +4.84 V  (min =  +0.00 V, max =  +6.85 V)
+12V:     +11.97 V  (min =  +0.00 V, max = +16.32 V)
in5:       +3.18 V  (min =  +0.00 V, max =  +4.08 V)
in6:       +0.10 V  (min =  +0.00 V, max =  +4.08 V)
5VSB:      +4.92 V  (min =  +0.00 V, max =  +6.85 V)
VBat:      +3.07 V
fan1:      805 RPM  (min =    0 RPM)
fan2:        0 RPM  (min =    0 RPM)
temp1:       +38°C  (low  =  +127°C, high =  +127°C)   sensor thermistor
temp2:       +35°C  (low  =  +127°C, high =  +127°C)   sensor thermistor
temp3:       +25°C  (low  =  +127°C, high =  +127°C)   sensor = diode
vid:      +1.000 V (yes, throttled down)

As you can see the k8temp info is slightly off-target.
Is this a known issue? How could it be corrected?

What are in5 and in6 on this board?
What are temp2 and temp3?

Thanks for your help.

Kind regards,
Udo

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Re: [lm-sensors] k8temp weirdness, it8716 questions

[Jean Delvare]

Hi Udo,

On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 16:32:51 +0100, Udo van den Heuvel wrote:
> I am running Fedora 8 on a Gigabyte m56s-s3 board with an AMD X2 BE-2350.
> Running sensors gives me:
> 
> # sensors
> k8temp-pci-00c3
> Adapter: PCI adapter
> temp1:        -9°C
> temp2:       -20°C
> temp3:       -18°C
> temp4:       -14°C
> 
> it8716-isa-0290
> Adapter: ISA adapter
> VCore:     +0.99 V  (min =  +0.00 V, max =  +4.08 V)
> VDDR:      +1.89 V  (min =  +0.00 V, max =  +4.08 V)
> +3.3V:     +3.30 V  (min =  +0.00 V, max =  +4.08 V)
> +5V:       +4.84 V  (min =  +0.00 V, max =  +6.85 V)
> +12V:     +11.97 V  (min =  +0.00 V, max = +16.32 V)
> in5:       +3.18 V  (min =  +0.00 V, max =  +4.08 V)
> in6:       +0.10 V  (min =  +0.00 V, max =  +4.08 V)
> 5VSB:      +4.92 V  (min =  +0.00 V, max =  +6.85 V)
> VBat:      +3.07 V
> fan1:      805 RPM  (min =    0 RPM)
> fan2:        0 RPM  (min =    0 RPM)
> temp1:       +38°C  (low  =  +127°C, high =  +127°C)   sensor = thermistor
> temp2:       +35°C  (low  =  +127°C, high =  +127°C)   sensor = thermistor
> temp3:       +25°C  (low  =  +127°C, high =  +127°C)   sensor = diode
> vid:      +1.000 V (yes, throttled down)
> 
> As you can see the k8temp info is slightly off-target.
> Is this a known issue? How could it be corrected?

The rumor says that most recent K8 CPUs have broken thermal sensors and
there's nothing you can do about that. My hope is that we can blacklist
them in the k8temp driver directly, but I don't know which models are
affected exactly.

> What are in5 and in6 on this board?

It's motherboard-specific, so we can't tell for sure. in6 is too low to
be anything real, so my guess is that it isn't wired at all (so you can
add "ignore in6" in your configuration file. in5 seems to be real, it
could be 3VSB. Only the motherboard manufacturer can tell for sure.

> What are temp2 and temp3?

Did temp3 ever change? Gigabyte are famous for their thermal sensors
that read 25 degrees C all the time (even though there are typically
thermistors, not thermal diodes.) These are unconnected thermal inputs
which you can just ignore.

This leaves temp1 and temp2 for the CPU and system temperatures, or
vice-versa. Usually the CPU uses a thermal diode and the system a
thermistor so it's easy to tell them apart, but in your case these are
two thermistors. To find out which is which, just run a CPU-intensive
task and check which temperature is rising faster - that will be the
CPU sensor. And the other one is the system temperature sensor.

If you come up with a good configuration file for that board, please
submit it and we'll add it to our collection.

-- 
Jean Delvare

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Re: [lm-sensors] k8temp weirdness, it8716 questions

[Udo van den Heuvel]

Jean Delvare wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 16:32:51 +0100, Udo van den Heuvel wrote:
>> I am running Fedora 8 on a Gigabyte m56s-s3 board with an AMD X2 BE-2350.
>> Running sensors gives me:
>>
>> # sensors
>> k8temp-pci-00c3
>> Adapter: PCI adapter
>> temp1:        -9°C
>> temp2:       -20°C
>> temp3:       -18°C
>> temp4:       -14°C
>>
>> it8716-isa-0290
(.....)
>> in5:       +3.18 V  (min =  +0.00 V, max =  +4.08 V)
>> in6:       +0.10 V  (min =  +0.00 V, max =  +4.08 V)
>> 5VSB:      +4.92 V  (min =  +0.00 V, max =  +6.85 V)
>> VBat:      +3.07 V
>> fan1:      805 RPM  (min =    0 RPM)
>> fan2:        0 RPM  (min =    0 RPM)
>> temp1:       +38°C  (low  =  +127°C, high =  +127°C)   sensor = thermistor
>> temp2:       +35°C  (low  =  +127°C, high =  +127°C)   sensor = thermistor
>> temp3:       +25°C  (low  =  +127°C, high =  +127°C)   sensor = diode
>> vid:      +1.000 V (yes, throttled down)
>>
>> As you can see the k8temp info is slightly off-target.
>> Is this a known issue? How could it be corrected?
> 
> The rumor says that most recent K8 CPUs have broken thermal sensors and
> there's nothing you can do about that. My hope is that we can blacklist
> them in the k8temp driver directly, but I don't know which models are
> affected exactly.

No software compensation possible?

>> What are in5 and in6 on this board?
> 
> It's motherboard-specific, so we can't tell for sure. in6 is too low to
> be anything real, so my guess is that it isn't wired at all (so you can
> add "ignore in6" in your configuration file. in5 seems to be real, it
> could be 3VSB. Only the motherboard manufacturer can tell for sure.

I will ask Gigabyte support.

>> What are temp2 and temp3?
> 
> Did temp3 ever change? 

Yes.

> Gigabyte are famous for their thermal sensors
> that read 25 degrees C all the time (even though there are typically
> thermistors, not thermal diodes.) These are unconnected thermal inputs
> which you can just ignore.

When temp3 is changed to thermistor it reads 89 degrees versis 24 as
diode. (temp1/2 are 34 now)

> This leaves temp1 and temp2 for the CPU and system temperatures, or
> vice-versa. 

I'll fidn out which is which.

> If you come up with a good configuration file for that board, please
> submit it and we'll add it to our collection.

It will still be part guesswork but I'll let you know.

Udo

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Re: [lm-sensors] k8temp weirdness, it8716 questions

[Udo van den Heuvel]

Jean Delvare wrote:
> This leaves temp1 and temp2 for the CPU and system temperatures, or
> vice-versa. Usually the CPU uses a thermal diode and the system a
> thermistor so it's easy to tell them apart, but in your case these are
> two thermistors. To find out which is which, just run a CPU-intensive
> task and check which temperature is rising faster - that will be the
> CPU sensor. And the other one is the system temperature sensor.

temp2 appears to be getting the hottest, so should be CPU.
Anyone able to confirm this for a Gigabyte M56S-S3 board?

> 
> If you come up with a good configuration file for that board, please
> submit it and we'll add it to our collection.
> 

Ok, current working config for M56S-S3 board:

chip "it8716-*"

# Voltages

    label  in0  "VCore"
    label  in1  "VDDR"
    label  in2  "+3.3V"    # VCC3
    label  in3  "+5V"      # VCC
    label  in4  "+12V"
#   label  in5  "unknown"  # need input on function
    ignore in6
    label  in7  "5VSB"     # VCCH
    label  in8  "VBat"

    compute in3  ((6.8/10)+1)*@ , @/((6.8/10)+1)
    compute in4  ((30/10)+1)*@  , @/((30/10)+1)
#   compute in5  (1+232/56)*@ - 4.096*232/56 , (@ + 4.096*232/56)/(1+232/56)
#   compute in6  (1+120/56)*@ - 4.096*120/56 , (@ + 4.096*120/56)/(1+120/56)
    compute in7  ((6.8/10)+1)*@ , @/((6.8/10)+1)

# Temperatures

# If you are lucky, the BIOS has set the proper sensor types for you.
# If your temperature readings are completely whacky you probably
# need to change the sensor types. Adujst and uncomment the
# appropriate lines below.
#
# 2 = thermistor; 3 = thermal diode; 0 = unused
   set sensor1  2
   set sensor2  2
   set sensor3  3

# If a given sensor isn't used, you will probably want to ignore it
# as well (see ignore statement right below).
# The CPU sensor can be any of temp1, temp2 or temp3 - it's motherboard
# dependent. Same for the motherboard temperature.

   label  temp2  "CPU Temp"
   label  temp1  "M/B Temp"
   ignore temp3

   set temp1_over  50
   set temp1_low   10
   set temp2_over  60
   set temp2_low   10

# Fans

# The CPU fan can be any of fan1, fan2 or fan3 - it's motherboard
# dependent. Same for the case fan.

   label  fan1 "CPU Fan"
   label  fan2 "Case Fan"


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Re: [lm-sensors] k8temp weirdness, it8716 questions

[Jean Delvare]

On Fri, 14 Dec 2007 15:33:45 +0100, Udo van den Heuvel wrote:
> Jean Delvare wrote:
> > On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 16:32:51 +0100, Udo van den Heuvel wrote:
> >> I am running Fedora 8 on a Gigabyte m56s-s3 board with an AMD X2 BE-2350.
> >> Running sensors gives me:
> >>
> >> # sensors
> >> k8temp-pci-00c3
> >> Adapter: PCI adapter
> >> temp1:        -9°C
> >> temp2:       -20°C
> >> temp3:       -18°C
> >> temp4:       -14°C
> >>
> >> it8716-isa-0290
> (.....)
> >> in5:       +3.18 V  (min =  +0.00 V, max =  +4.08 V)
> >> in6:       +0.10 V  (min =  +0.00 V, max =  +4.08 V)
> >> 5VSB:      +4.92 V  (min =  +0.00 V, max =  +6.85 V)
> >> VBat:      +3.07 V
> >> fan1:      805 RPM  (min =    0 RPM)
> >> fan2:        0 RPM  (min =    0 RPM)
> >> temp1:       +38°C  (low  =  +127°C, high =  +127°C)   sensor = thermistor
> >> temp2:       +35°C  (low  =  +127°C, high =  +127°C)   sensor = thermistor
> >> temp3:       +25°C  (low  =  +127°C, high =  +127°C)   sensor = diode
> >> vid:      +1.000 V (yes, throttled down)
> >>
> >> As you can see the k8temp info is slightly off-target.
> >> Is this a known issue? How could it be corrected?
> > 
> > The rumor says that most recent K8 CPUs have broken thermal sensors and
> > there's nothing you can do about that. My hope is that we can blacklist
> > them in the k8temp driver directly, but I don't know which models are
> > affected exactly.
> 
> No software compensation possible?

Not that I know of. You can always apply arbitrary offsets via compute
statements in sensors.conf, but 1* you'll have to guess the offset and
2* there is no guarantee that a simple offset will do the trick. So all
in all I doubt it's worth the effort.

> (...)
> > Gigabyte are famous for their thermal sensors
> > that read 25 degrees C all the time (even though there are typically
> > thermistors, not thermal diodes.) These are unconnected thermal inputs
> > which you can just ignore.
> 
> When temp3 is changed to thermistor it reads 89 degrees versis 24 as
> diode. (temp1/2 are 34 now)

In general you can hope that the sensor types set by the BIOS are correct.

-- 
Jean Delvare

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Re: [lm-sensors] k8temp weirdness, it8716 questions

[Jean Delvare]

On Fri, 14 Dec 2007 16:01:09 +0100, Udo van den Heuvel wrote:
> Jean Delvare wrote:
> > This leaves temp1 and temp2 for the CPU and system temperatures, or
> > vice-versa. Usually the CPU uses a thermal diode and the system a
> > thermistor so it's easy to tell them apart, but in your case these are
> > two thermistors. To find out which is which, just run a CPU-intensive
> > task and check which temperature is rising faster - that will be the
> > CPU sensor. And the other one is the system temperature sensor.
> 
> temp2 appears to be getting the hottest, so should be CPU.
> Anyone able to confirm this for a Gigabyte M56S-S3 board?
> 
> > 
> > If you come up with a good configuration file for that board, please
> > submit it and we'll add it to our collection.
> > 
> 
> Ok, current working config for M56S-S3 board:
> 
> chip "it8716-*"
> 
> # Voltages
> 
>     label  in0  "VCore"
>     label  in1  "VDDR"
>     label  in2  "+3.3V"    # VCC3
>     label  in3  "+5V"      # VCC
>     label  in4  "+12V"
> #   label  in5  "unknown"  # need input on function
>     ignore in6
>     label  in7  "5VSB"     # VCCH
>     label  in8  "VBat"
> 
>     compute in3  ((6.8/10)+1)*@ , @/((6.8/10)+1)
>     compute in4  ((30/10)+1)*@  , @/((30/10)+1)
> #   compute in5  (1+232/56)*@ - 4.096*232/56 , (@ + 4.096*232/56)/(1+232/56)
> #   compute in6  (1+120/56)*@ - 4.096*120/56 , (@ + 4.096*120/56)/(1+120/56)
>     compute in7  ((6.8/10)+1)*@ , @/((6.8/10)+1)
> 
> # Temperatures
> 
> # If you are lucky, the BIOS has set the proper sensor types for you.
> # If your temperature readings are completely whacky you probably
> # need to change the sensor types. Adujst and uncomment the
> # appropriate lines below.
> #
> # 2 = thermistor; 3 = thermal diode; 0 = unused
>    set sensor1  2
>    set sensor2  2
>    set sensor3  3

Did you have to overwrite the BIOS values here? If not, better omit the
set statements...

> 
> # If a given sensor isn't used, you will probably want to ignore it
> # as well (see ignore statement right below).
> # The CPU sensor can be any of temp1, temp2 or temp3 - it's motherboard
> # dependent. Same for the motherboard temperature.
> 
>    label  temp2  "CPU Temp"
>    label  temp1  "M/B Temp"
>    ignore temp3

... especially if you're going to ignore the sensor in question.

> 
>    set temp1_over  50
>    set temp1_low   10
>    set temp2_over  60
>    set temp2_low   10
> 
> # Fans
> 
> # The CPU fan can be any of fan1, fan2 or fan3 - it's motherboard
> # dependent. Same for the case fan.
> 
>    label  fan1 "CPU Fan"
>    label  fan2 "Case Fan"
> 


-- 
Jean Delvare

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Re: [lm-sensors] k8temp weirdness, it8716 questions

[Udo van den Heuvel]

Jean Delvare wrote:
>>> If you come up with a good configuration file for that board, please
>>> submit it and we'll add it to our collection.
(...)
>>    label  temp2  "CPU Temp"
>>    label  temp1  "M/B Temp"
>>    ignore temp3
> 
> ... especially if you're going to ignore the sensor in question.

The jury is still out on temp3. (at least for me)
temp3 is closer to room temperature than temp. temp1 is (at idle) close
to CPU temp.



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