Re: regarding frequent head unload problem

Re: regarding frequent head unload problem

[Paul Rolland]

Hello,

On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 17:02:33 +0900
Tejun Heo <tj@kernel.org> wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I'm writing to everyone who reported to me or linux-ide about frequent
> head unload problem and the report is not yet committed to
> storage-fixup.conf.
> 
> I'm a bit worried about the explosion of reports because I really
> wanna avoid creating false entries as they will increase power
> consumption on Linux unnecessarily.  I've just updated the Known
> Issues wiki page.  Here are the update parts.
> 
>  Note that modern laptop drives are supposed to unload frequently to
>  save power. Unless the unloading is excessive, disabling powersaving
>  is not a good idea. It seems that most modern drives are rated for
>  600,000 load/unload cycles which translates to about two years of
>  uptime at 35 unloads per hour. Even when assuming continuous 12 hours
>  of usage everyday, this means the drive will only reach its rated
>  load/unload cycle limit after four years and shouldn't be considered
>  malfunctioning. Please only report cases where the expected uptime is
>  significantly lower than two years.
> 
>  ... Also, please include how many times the drive unloads the head
>  per-hour under nominal usage without any adjustment.

I also have the following :
[root@tux ~]# while : ; do smartctl --all /dev/sda | grep ^193; sleep 60; done
193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0012 075 075 000  Old_age Always  - 257584 
193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0012 075 075 000  Old_age Always  - 257590 
193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0012 075 075 000  Old_age Always  - 257593

and counting up...
The machine is not an HP one, but a Dell Inspiron 6400. The disk is :

/dev/sda:

 Model=Hitachi HTS542525K9SA00                 , FwRev=BBFOC31P, SerialNo=071007BB0F00WDGA8U9C
 Config={ HardSect NotMFM HdSw>15uSec Fixed DTR>10Mbs }
 RawCHS=16383/16/63, TrkSize=0, SectSize=0, ECCbytes=4
 BuffType=DualPortCache, BuffSize=7229kB, MaxMultSect=16, MultSect=?8?
 CurCHS=16383/16/63, CurSects=16514064, LBA=yes, LBAsects=268435455
 IORDY=on/off, tPIO={min:120,w/IORDY:120}, tDMA={min:120,rec:120}
 PIO modes:  pio0 pio1 pio2 pio3 pio4 
 DMA modes:  mdma0 mdma1 mdma2 
 UDMA modes: udma0 udma1 udma2 udma3 udma4 udma5 
 AdvancedPM=yes: mode=0x80 (128) WriteCache=enabled
 Drive conforms to: unknown:  ATA/ATAPI-2,3,4,5,6,7

 * signifies the current active mode

[root@tux ~]# hdparm -I /dev/sda

/dev/sda:

ATA device, with non-removable media
        Model Number:       Hitachi HTS542525K9SA00                 
        Serial Number:      071007BB0F00WDGA8U9C
        Firmware Revision:  BBFOC31P
        Transport:          Serial, ATA8-AST, SATA 1.0a, SATA II Extensions, SATA Rev 2.5; Revision: ATA8-AST T13 Project D1697 Revision 0b
Standards:
        Supported: 8 7 6 5 
        Likely used: 8
Configuration:
        Logical         max     current
        cylinders       16383   16383
        heads           16      16
        sectors/track   63      63
        --
        CHS current addressable sectors:   16514064
        LBA    user addressable sectors:  268435455
        LBA48  user addressable sectors:  488397168
        device size with M = 1024*1024:      238475 MBytes
        device size with M = 1000*1000:      250059 MBytes (250 GB)
Capabilities:
        LBA, IORDY(can be disabled)
        Queue depth: 32
        Standby timer values: spec'd by Vendor, no device specific minimum
        R/W multiple sector transfer: Max = 16  Current = 8
        Advanced power management level: 128 (0x80)
        Recommended acoustic management value: 128, current value: 254
        DMA: mdma0 mdma1 mdma2 udma0 udma1 udma2 udma3 udma4 udma5 *udma6 
             Cycle time: min=120ns recommended=120ns
        PIO: pio0 pio1 pio2 pio3 pio4 
             Cycle time: no flow control=120ns  IORDY flow control=120ns
Commands/features:
        Enabled Supported:
           *    SMART feature set
                Security Mode feature set
           *    Power Management feature set
           *    Write cache
           *    Look-ahead
           *    Host Protected Area feature set
           *    WRITE_BUFFER command
           *    READ_BUFFER command
           *    NOP cmd
           *    DOWNLOAD_MICROCODE
           *    Advanced Power Management feature set
                Power-Up In Standby feature set
           *    SET_FEATURES required to spinup after power up
                SET_MAX security extension
                Automatic Acoustic Management feature set
           *    48-bit Address feature set
           *    Device Configuration Overlay feature set
           *    Mandatory FLUSH_CACHE
           *    FLUSH_CACHE_EXT
           *    SMART error logging
           *    SMART self-test
           *    General Purpose Logging feature set
           *    WRITE_{DMA|MULTIPLE}_FUA_EXT
           *    64-bit World wide name
           *    IDLE_IMMEDIATE with UNLOAD
           *    WRITE_UNCORRECTABLE command
           *    SATA-I signaling speed (1.5Gb/s)
           *    Native Command Queueing (NCQ)
           *    Host-initiated interface power management
           *    Phy event counters
           *    unknown 76[12]
                Non-Zero buffer offsets in DMA Setup FIS
                DMA Setup Auto-Activate optimization
                Device-initiated interface power management
                In-order data delivery
           *    Software settings preservation
           *    SMART Command Transport (SCT) feature set
           *    SCT LBA Segment Access (AC2)
           *    SCT Error Recovery Control (AC3)
           *    SCT Features Control (AC4)
           *    SCT Data Tables (AC5)
Security: 
        Master password revision code = 65534
                supported
        not     enabled
        not     locked
                frozen
        not     expired: security count
                supported: enhanced erase
        106min for SECURITY ERASE UNIT. 108min for ENHANCED SECURITY ERASE UNIT.
Checksum: correct

The machine is running Linux 2.6.27-rc5.


> Machines currently on the storage.fixup list are (or at least supposed
> to be) the extreme cases where the drive unloads its head multiple
> times per minute decreasing its life expectancy to under a year.
> Please double check your machine falls into this category.

Seems that I do :(

Can I help in any way ?

Regards,
Paul

-- 
Paul Rolland                                E-Mail : rol(at)witbe.net
CTO - Witbe.net SA                          Tel. +33 (0)1 47 67 77 77
Les Collines de l'Arche                     Fax. +33 (0)1 47 67 77 99
F-92057 Paris La Defense                    RIPE : PR12-RIPE

Please no HTML, I'm not a browser - Pas d'HTML, je ne suis pas un navigateur 
"Some people dream of success... while others wake up and work hard at it" 

There's no heavier burden than a great potential.

Re: regarding frequent head unload problem

[Paul Rolland]

Hello,

On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 11:00:17 +0200
Paul Rolland (ポール・ロラン)  <rol@witbe.net> wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 17:02:33 +0900
> Tejun Heo <tj@kernel.org> wrote:
> 
> > Hello,
> > 
> > I'm writing to everyone who reported to me or linux-ide about frequent
> > head unload problem and the report is not yet committed to
> > storage-fixup.conf.

> 
> I also have the following :
> [root@tux ~]# while : ; do smartctl --all /dev/sda | grep ^193; sleep 60;
> done 193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0012 075 075 000  Old_age Always  - 257584 
> 193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0012 075 075 000  Old_age Always  - 257590 
> 193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0012 075 075 000  Old_age Always  - 257593
> 

Please note that hdparm -B255 /dev/sda also fixes the issue... Now added
to rc.local ;)

Regards,
Paul

-- 
Paul Rolland                                E-Mail : rol(at)witbe.net
CTO - Witbe.net SA                          Tel. +33 (0)1 47 67 77 77
Les Collines de l'Arche                     Fax. +33 (0)1 47 67 77 99
F-92057 Paris La Defense                    RIPE : PR12-RIPE

Please no HTML, I'm not a browser - Pas d'HTML, je ne suis pas un navigateur 
"Some people dream of success... while others wake up and work hard at it" 

Alcoholics Anonymous is when you get to drink under someone else's name.

Re: regarding frequent head unload problem

[Robert Krawitz]

   Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 17:02:33 +0900
   From: Tejun Heo <tj@kernel.org>

   Hello,

   I'm writing to everyone who reported to me or linux-ide about frequent
   head unload problem and the report is not yet committed to
   storage-fixup.conf.

   I'm a bit worried about the explosion of reports because I really
   wanna avoid creating false entries as they will increase power
   consumption on Linux unnecessarily.  I've just updated the Known
   Issues wiki page.  Here are the update parts.

    Note that modern laptop drives are supposed to unload frequently to
    save power. Unless the unloading is excessive, disabling powersaving
    is not a good idea. It seems that most modern drives are rated for
    600,000 load/unload cycles which translates to about two years of
    uptime at 35 unloads per hour. Even when assuming continuous 12 hours
    of usage everyday, this means the drive will only reach its rated
    load/unload cycle limit after four years and shouldn't be considered
    malfunctioning. Please only report cases where the expected uptime is
    significantly lower than two years.

    ... Also, please include how many times the drive unloads the head
    per-hour under nominal usage without any adjustment.

   Machines currently on the storage.fixup list are (or at least supposed
   to be) the extreme cases where the drive unloads its head multiple
   times per minute decreasing its life expectancy to under a year.
   Please double check your machine falls into this category.

Mine was unloading multiple times per minute.  It had accumulated
70,000 cycles within the first month or two of use.

-- 
Robert Krawitz                                     <rlk@alum.mit.edu>

Tall Clubs International  --  http://www.tall.org/ or 1-888-IM-TALL-2
Member of the League for Programming Freedom -- mail lpf@uunet.uu.net
Project lead for Gutenprint   --    http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net

"Linux doesn't dictate how I work, I dictate how Linux works."
--Eric Crampton

Re: regarding frequent head unload problem

[Omar A]

Hi,
 My HD seems to unload several times a minute.

root@omar-laptop:~# while : ; do smartctl --all /dev/sda | grep ^193;
sleep 60; done
193 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   199   199   000    Old_age
Always       -       3249
193 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   199   199   000    Old_age
Always       -       3251
193 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   199   199   000    Old_age
Always       -       3251
193 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   199   199   000    Old_age
Always       -       3253
193 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   199   199   000    Old_age
Always       -       3256
193 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   199   199   000    Old_age
Always       -       3258
193 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   199   199   000    Old_age
Always       -       3262
193 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   199   199   000    Old_age
Always       -       3264
193 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   199   199   000    Old_age
Always       -       3266

root@omar-laptop:~# hdparm -I /dev/sda

/dev/sda:

ATA device, with non-removable media
Model Number:       WDC WD2500BEVS-75UST0
Serial Number:      WD-WXE708HR3348
Firmware Revision:  01.01A01
Standards:
Supported: 8 7 6 5
Likely used: 8
Configuration:
Logical max current
cylinders 16383 16383
heads 16 16
sectors/track 63 63
--
CHS current addressable sectors:   16514064
LBA    user addressable sectors:  268435455
LBA48  user addressable sectors:  488397168
device size with M = 1024*1024:      238475 MBytes
device size with M = 1000*1000:      250059 MBytes (250 GB)
Capabilities:
LBA, IORDY(can be disabled)
Queue depth: 32
Standby timer values: spec'd by Standard, with device specific minimum
R/W multiple sector transfer: Max = 16 Current = 8
Advanced power management level: 128
Recommended acoustic management value: 128, current value: 254
DMA: mdma0 mdma1 mdma2 udma0 udma1 udma2 udma3 udma4 udma5 *udma6
    Cycle time: min=120ns recommended=120ns
PIO: pio0 pio1 pio2 pio3 pio4
    Cycle time: no flow control=120ns  IORDY flow control=120ns
Commands/features:
Enabled Supported:
  * SMART feature set
    Security Mode feature set
  * Power Management feature set
  * Write cache
  * Look-ahead
  * Host Protected Area feature set
  * WRITE_BUFFER command
  * READ_BUFFER command
  * NOP cmd
  * DOWNLOAD_MICROCODE
  * Advanced Power Management feature set
    SET_MAX security extension
  * Automatic Acoustic Management feature set
  * 48-bit Address feature set
  * Device Configuration Overlay feature set
  * Mandatory FLUSH_CACHE
  * FLUSH_CACHE_EXT
  * SMART error logging
  * SMART self-test
  * General Purpose Logging feature set
  * WRITE_{DMA|MULTIPLE}_FUA_EXT
  * 64-bit World wide name
  * IDLE_IMMEDIATE with UNLOAD
  * Segmented DOWNLOAD_MICROCODE
  * SATA-I signaling speed (1.5Gb/s)
  * Native Command Queueing (NCQ)
  * Host-initiated interface power management
  * Phy event counters
    DMA Setup Auto-Activate optimization
    Device-initiated interface power management
  * Software settings preservation
  * SMART Command Transport (SCT) feature set
  * SCT Long Sector Access (AC1)
  * SCT LBA Segment Access (AC2)
  * SCT Error Recovery Control (AC3)
  * SCT Features Control (AC4)
  * SCT Data Tables (AC5)
    unknown 206[12] (vendor specific)
    unknown 206[13] (vendor specific)
Security:
Master password revision code = 65534
supported
not enabled
not locked
frozen
not expired: security count
not supported: enhanced erase
92min for SECURITY ERASE UNIT.
Logical Unit WWN Device Identifier: 50014ee25720269e
NAA : 5
IEEE OUI : 14ee
Unique ID : 25720269e
Checksum: correct

This is a Dell Inspiron 1318
2.6.24-19-generic #1 SMP Wed Aug 20 22:56:21 UTC 2008 i686 GNU/Linux

root@omar-laptop:~# smartctl --all /dev/sda
smartctl version 5.37 [i686-pc-linux-gnu] Copyright (C) 2002-6 Bruce Allen
Home page is http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/

=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Device Model:     WDC WD2500BEVS-75UST0
Serial Number:    WD-WXE708HR3348
Firmware Version: 01.01A01
User Capacity:    250,059,350,016 bytes
Device is:        Not in smartctl database [for details use: -P showall]
ATA Version is:   8
ATA Standard is:  Exact ATA specification draft version not indicated
Local Time is:    Mon Sep 29 18:32:08 2008 CEST
SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
SMART support is: Enabled

=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED

General SMART Values:
Offline data collection status:  (0x00)	Offline data collection activity
					was never started.
					Auto Offline Data Collection: Disabled.
Self-test execution status:      (   0)	The previous self-test routine completed
					without error or no self-test has ever
					been run.
Total time to complete Offline
data collection: 		 (9180) seconds.
Offline data collection
capabilities: 			 (0x7b) SMART execute Offline immediate.
					Auto Offline data collection on/off support.
					Suspend Offline collection upon new
					command.
					Offline surface scan supported.
					Self-test supported.
					Conveyance Self-test supported.
					Selective Self-test supported.
SMART capabilities:            (0x0003)	Saves SMART data before entering
					power-saving mode.
					Supports SMART auto save timer.
Error logging capability:        (0x01)	Error logging supported.
					General Purpose Logging supported.
Short self-test routine
recommended polling time: 	 (   2) minutes.
Extended self-test routine
recommended polling time: 	 ( 110) minutes.
Conveyance self-test routine
recommended polling time: 	 (   5) minutes.

SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 16
Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE
UPDATED  WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
  1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x000f   200   200   051    Pre-fail
Always       -       0
  3 Spin_Up_Time            0x0003   188   187   021    Pre-fail
Always       -       1600
  4 Start_Stop_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age
Always       -       118
  5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   200   200   140    Pre-fail
Always       -       0
  7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x000e   100   253   051    Old_age
Always       -       0
  9 Power_On_Hours          0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age
Always       -       161
 10 Spin_Retry_Count        0x0012   100   100   051    Old_age
Always       -       0
 11 Calibration_Retry_Count 0x0012   100   253   051    Old_age
Always       -       0
 12 Power_Cycle_Count       0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age
Always       -       95
192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032   200   200   000    Old_age
Always       -       9
193 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   199   199   000    Old_age
Always       -       3274
194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0022   115   104   000    Old_age
Always       -       32
196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0032   200   200   000    Old_age
Always       -       0
197 Current_Pending_Sector  0x0012   200   200   000    Old_age
Always       -       0
198 Offline_Uncorrectable   0x0010   100   253   000    Old_age
Offline      -       0
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count    0x003e   200   200   000    Old_age
Always       -       0
200 Multi_Zone_Error_Rate   0x0008   100   253   051    Old_age
Offline      -       0
240 Head_Flying_Hours       0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age
Always       -       190
241 Unknown_Attribute       0x0032   195   195   000    Old_age
Always       -       5763852624323
242 Unknown_Attribute       0x0032   200   200   000    Old_age
Always       -       522340900

SMART Error Log Version: 1
No Errors Logged

SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1
Num  Test_Description    Status                  Remaining
LifeTime(hours)  LBA_of_first_error
# 1  Short offline       Completed without error       00%         4         -
# 2  Short offline       Completed without error       00%         1         -
# 3  Short offline       Completed without error       00%         0         -
# 4  Short offline       Completed without error       00%         0         -

SMART Selective self-test log data structure revision number 1
 SPAN  MIN_LBA  MAX_LBA  CURRENT_TEST_STATUS
    1        0        0  Not_testing
    2        0        0  Not_testing
    3        0        0  Not_testing
    4        0        0  Not_testing
    5        0        0  Not_testing
Selective self-test flags (0x0):
  After scanning selected spans, do NOT read-scan remainder of disk.
If Selective self-test is pending on power-up, resume after 0 minute delay.

Hope this helps.

Best Regards


On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 1:44 PM, Robert Krawitz <rlk@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
>   Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 17:02:33 +0900
>   From: Tejun Heo <tj@kernel.org>
>
>   Hello,
>
>   I'm writing to everyone who reported to me or linux-ide about frequent
>   head unload problem and the report is not yet committed to
>   storage-fixup.conf.
>
>   I'm a bit worried about the explosion of reports because I really
>   wanna avoid creating false entries as they will increase power
>   consumption on Linux unnecessarily.  I've just updated the Known
>   Issues wiki page.  Here are the update parts.
>
>    Note that modern laptop drives are supposed to unload frequently to
>    save power. Unless the unloading is excessive, disabling powersaving
>    is not a good idea. It seems that most modern drives are rated for
>    600,000 load/unload cycles which translates to about two years of
>    uptime at 35 unloads per hour. Even when assuming continuous 12 hours
>    of usage everyday, this means the drive will only reach its rated
>    load/unload cycle limit after four years and shouldn't be considered
>    malfunctioning. Please only report cases where the expected uptime is
>    significantly lower than two years.
>
>    ... Also, please include how many times the drive unloads the head
>    per-hour under nominal usage without any adjustment.
>
>   Machines currently on the storage.fixup list are (or at least supposed
>   to be) the extreme cases where the drive unloads its head multiple
>   times per minute decreasing its life expectancy to under a year.
>   Please double check your machine falls into this category.
>
> Mine was unloading multiple times per minute.  It had accumulated
> 70,000 cycles within the first month or two of use.
>
> --
> Robert Krawitz                                     <rlk@alum.mit.edu>
>
> Tall Clubs International  --  http://www.tall.org/ or 1-888-IM-TALL-2
> Member of the League for Programming Freedom -- mail lpf@uunet.uu.net
> Project lead for Gutenprint   --    http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net
>
> "Linux doesn't dictate how I work, I dictate how Linux works."
> --Eric Crampton
>



--
Am I the Alien?? I guess we will never know :-)

Re: regarding frequent head unload problem

[Pascal Vandeputte]

Tejun Heo wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'm writing to everyone who reported to me or linux-ide about frequent
> head unload problem and the report is not yet committed to
> storage-fixup.conf.
>
> I'm a bit worried about the explosion of reports because I really
> wanna avoid creating false entries as they will increase power
> consumption on Linux unnecessarily. [...]
Hi,

I understand your concern. It mainly comes down to how much earlier your
battery is drained I guess (without taking the "green" aspect into
account). Would anyone have any numbers on that? If not, we could do a
test ourselves (torturing our drives for a few hours extra,
percentage-wise the extra wear and tear is limited).

The amount of power saved will probably differ between drive
manufacturers & models as well. My gut feeling is that it won't make
that much of a difference, but it's indeed something to think about.

Greetings,

Pascal