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From: "Pádraig Brady" <P@draigBrady.com>
To: Rob Landley <rob@landley.net>
Cc: "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>,
	Leon Woestenberg <leon.woestenberg@gmail.com>,
	Embedded Linux mailing list <linux-embedded@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Sam Ravnborg <sam@ravnborg.org>,
	austin-group-l@opengroup.org
Subject: Re: PATCH [0/3]: Simplify the kernel build by removing perl.
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:32:57 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <496F4919.8060302@draigBrady.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <200901040029.03396.rob@landley.net>

Rob Landley wrote:
> Implementing something by hand isn't _always_ a good alternative, sure.  That 
> would be the "thinking about the problem" part.  In this instance, avoiding 
> overflow is trivial.  (If 1<<-1 didn't wrap around, it wouldn't even need the 
> if statement.)

I don't think this affects your script but it's worth noting
that both bash and ksh use arithmetic rather than logical shift
for the >> operator.

Now arithmetic shift is not useful on 2's compliment machines,
and moreover it's compiler dependent as to whether arithmetic
or logical shift is done for >>. Therefore to increase usefulness
and decrease ambiguity, shells really should only shift unsigned
variables internally.

I know the opengroup spec says to use signed ints, but I think
that is intended to disambiguate input and output, rather than defining
internal operations. This is correct I think since the POSIX spec says
you can even use floating point internally if you like.

I asked the bash maintainer who said he would need clarification
from the austin group (CC'd) before changing anything.

cheers,
Pádraig.

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: "Pádraig Brady" <P@draigBrady.com>
To: Rob Landley <rob@landley.net>
Cc: "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>,
	Leon Woestenberg <leon.woestenberg@gmail.com>,
	Embedded Linux mailing list <linux-embedded@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Sam Ravnborg <sam@ravnborg.org>,
	austin-group-l@opengroup.org
Subject: Re: PATCH [0/3]: Simplify the kernel build by removing perl.
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:32:57 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <496F4919.8060302@draigBrady.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <200901040029.03396.rob@landley.net>

Rob Landley wrote:
> Implementing something by hand isn't _always_ a good alternative, sure.  That 
> would be the "thinking about the problem" part.  In this instance, avoiding 
> overflow is trivial.  (If 1<<-1 didn't wrap around, it wouldn't even need the 
> if statement.)

I don't think this affects your script but it's worth noting
that both bash and ksh use arithmetic rather than logical shift
for the >> operator.

Now arithmetic shift is not useful on 2's compliment machines,
and moreover it's compiler dependent as to whether arithmetic
or logical shift is done for >>. Therefore to increase usefulness
and decrease ambiguity, shells really should only shift unsigned
variables internally.

I know the opengroup spec says to use signed ints, but I think
that is intended to disambiguate input and output, rather than defining
internal operations. This is correct I think since the POSIX spec says
you can even use floating point internally if you like.

I asked the bash maintainer who said he would need clarification
from the austin group (CC'd) before changing anything.

cheers,
Pádraig.

  reply	other threads:[~2009-01-15 14:32 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 153+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2009-01-02  8:07 PATCH [0/3]: Simplify the kernel build by removing perl Rob Landley
2009-01-02  8:13 ` [PATCH 1/3]: Replace kernel/timeconst.pl with kernel/timeconst.sh Rob Landley
2009-01-02  8:13   ` Rob Landley
2009-01-02  9:04   ` Sam Ravnborg
2009-01-02 12:00     ` Rob Landley
2009-01-02 19:33       ` H. Peter Anvin
2009-01-04  1:32         ` Rob Landley
2009-01-04  1:35           ` H. Peter Anvin
2009-01-04 12:07           ` Alan Cox
2009-01-04 18:36             ` H. Peter Anvin
2009-01-04 19:03             ` Rob Landley
2009-01-04 20:39               ` H. Peter Anvin
2009-01-05  0:59                 ` Rob Landley
2009-01-03  6:28       ` Harvey Harrison
2009-01-03 12:28   ` Ingo Oeser
2009-01-04  1:36     ` Rob Landley
2009-01-04  1:36       ` Rob Landley
2009-01-04  5:07       ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2009-01-04  6:43         ` Rob Landley
2009-01-04 22:13           ` Jamie Lokier
2009-01-05  0:15             ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2009-01-05  2:23               ` Jamie Lokier
2009-01-05 10:46                 ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2009-01-05 15:01                   ` Jamie Lokier
2009-01-05 16:18                     ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2009-01-06  0:06                     ` Rob Landley
2009-01-05 21:07                   ` Rob Landley
2009-01-05  4:50               ` Rob Landley
2009-01-05 12:29                 ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2009-01-04 21:51         ` Alejandro Mery
2009-01-04  7:15       ` Michal Jaegermann
2009-01-04  7:15         ` Michal Jaegermann
2009-01-05  0:41   ` Ray Lee
2009-01-05  5:08     ` Rob Landley
2009-01-02  8:14 ` [PATCH 2/3]: Remove perl from make headers_install Rob Landley
2009-01-02  8:14   ` Rob Landley
2009-01-02  9:09   ` Sam Ravnborg
2009-01-02  8:15 ` [PATCH 3/3]: Convert mkcapflags.pl to mkcapflags.sh Rob Landley
2009-01-02  8:15   ` Rob Landley
2009-01-02  9:12   ` Sam Ravnborg
2009-01-02  9:26 ` PATCH [0/3]: Simplify the kernel build by removing perl Arkadiusz Miskiewicz
2009-01-02  9:26   ` Arkadiusz Miskiewicz
2009-01-02  9:49   ` Christoph Hellwig
2009-01-02 10:16     ` Alejandro Mery
2009-01-02 10:30       ` Mark Miller
2009-01-02 11:18         ` Matt Keenan
2009-01-02 11:18           ` Matt Keenan
2009-01-02 10:41       ` Måns Rullgård
2009-01-15 12:59         ` Pádraig Brady
2009-01-15 18:52           ` Jamie Lokier
2009-01-15 19:45             ` Måns Rullgård
2009-01-02 11:15       ` Rob Landley
2009-01-02 11:15         ` Rob Landley
2009-01-02 11:44         ` Sam Ravnborg
2009-01-02 12:56     ` Rob Landley
2009-01-02 14:04       ` Theodore Tso
2009-01-03  3:22         ` Jamie Lokier
2009-01-03  3:22           ` Jamie Lokier
2009-01-04  2:23         ` Rob Landley
2009-01-02 10:02   ` Mark Miller
2009-01-02 10:02     ` Mark Miller
2009-01-02 10:03     ` Mark Miller
2009-01-02 10:03       ` Mark Miller
2009-01-02 11:13   ` Rob Landley
2009-01-02 16:04     ` Matthieu CASTET
2009-01-02 16:04       ` Matthieu CASTET
2009-01-03 19:46       ` Rob Landley
2009-01-03 19:46         ` Rob Landley
2009-01-03 20:10         ` Sam Ravnborg
2009-01-03 20:50           ` H. Peter Anvin
2009-01-04  1:47             ` Rob Landley
2009-01-04  1:45           ` Rob Landley
2009-01-04  8:09             ` Sam Ravnborg
2009-01-04 20:19               ` Rob Landley
2009-01-04  0:44         ` Robert Hancock
2009-01-04  1:39           ` David Brownell
2009-01-04  3:05           ` Rob Landley
2009-01-04  1:32       ` Rob Landley
2009-01-04  1:32         ` Rob Landley
2009-01-02  9:50 ` Paul Mundt
2009-01-02 10:32   ` Mark Miller
2009-01-02 10:57     ` Paul Mundt
2009-01-02 12:11       ` Mark Miller
2009-01-02 12:44   ` Rob Landley
2009-01-02 17:25   ` Wookey
2009-01-02 18:01     ` Sam Ravnborg
2009-01-02 18:01       ` Sam Ravnborg
2009-01-02 19:27       ` H. Peter Anvin
2009-01-04  1:35         ` Rob Landley
2009-01-03 19:48       ` Rob Landley
2009-01-08 13:13         ` klaasjan gm
2009-01-08 15:04           ` Christian Gagneraud
2009-01-03 14:59   ` Wolfgang Denk
2009-01-03 22:54 ` Leon Woestenberg
2009-01-03 23:03   ` H. Peter Anvin
2009-01-04  0:37     ` Leon Woestenberg
2009-01-04  2:53       ` Rob Landley
2009-01-04  3:38         ` Markus Heidelberg
2009-01-04  4:57           ` Rob Landley
2009-01-04  2:06     ` Rob Landley
2009-01-04  2:14       ` H. Peter Anvin
2009-01-04  6:29         ` Rob Landley
2009-01-15 14:32           ` Pádraig Brady [this message]
2009-01-15 14:32             ` Pádraig Brady
2009-01-04  2:36       ` Jamie Lokier
2009-01-04  2:39         ` H. Peter Anvin
2009-01-04  2:43           ` H. Peter Anvin
2009-01-04  3:06       ` Paul Mundt
2009-01-04 10:23         ` Leon Woestenberg
2009-01-04 10:23           ` Leon Woestenberg
2009-01-08 13:29           ` Mike Frysinger
2009-01-11 12:45           ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2009-01-12  3:36             ` Mark A. Miller
2009-01-12  5:11               ` H. Peter Anvin
2009-01-12  5:23                 ` Mark A. Miller
2009-01-12  8:20               ` Paul Mundt
2009-01-12  9:18                 ` Mark A. Miller
2009-01-12  9:18                   ` Mark A. Miller
2009-01-12  9:41                   ` Paul Mundt
2009-01-12 10:03                     ` Mark A. Miller
2009-01-12 10:03                       ` Mark A. Miller
2009-01-12 10:34                       ` Paul Mundt
2009-01-12 17:56                     ` Rob Landley
2009-01-12 18:04                       ` Alan Cox
2009-01-12  8:27               ` Peter Korsgaard
2009-01-12 17:45                 ` Rob Landley
     [not found]             ` <31014a580901111928u586e2246uccf370ff941c8a01@mail.gmail.com>
2009-01-12  5:35               ` Sam Ravnborg
2009-01-12  5:50                 ` Mark A. Miller
2009-01-12 10:18                   ` Sam Ravnborg
2009-01-12 10:22                     ` Mark A. Miller
2009-01-12 10:44                       ` Alexander Neundorf
2009-01-12 10:55                         ` Mark A. Miller
2009-01-12 11:04                           ` Alexander Neundorf
2009-01-12 10:38                     ` Paul Mundt
2009-01-14  2:51                       ` Jamie Lokier
2009-01-14  2:51                         ` Jamie Lokier
2009-01-16  6:11                         ` Rob Landley
2009-01-16  7:28                           ` Alexander Neundorf
2009-01-16 14:54                           ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2009-01-16 21:54                             ` Rob Landley
2009-01-17  9:51                               ` Jamie Lokier
2009-01-18  1:44                                 ` Rob Landley
2009-01-04 16:22         ` Vladimir Dronnikov
2009-01-04 16:22           ` Vladimir Dronnikov
2009-01-04  1:24 ` PATCH [0/3]: Simplify the kernel build by removing perl v2 Rob Landley
2009-01-04  1:27   ` PATCH [1/3]: Replace kernel/timeconst.pl with kernel/timeconst.sh (v2) Rob Landley
2009-01-04  1:27     ` Rob Landley
2009-01-04  2:48     ` David Vrabel
2009-01-04 20:21       ` Rob Landley
2009-01-04  1:28   ` PATCH [2/3]: Remove perl from make headers_install Rob Landley
2009-01-04  1:28     ` Rob Landley
2009-01-04  1:29   ` PATCH [3/3]: Convert kernel/cpu/mkcapflags.pl to kernel/cpu/mkcapflags.sh Rob Landley
2009-01-04  1:29     ` Rob Landley

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