Autoresponders/autoreply replies are marked as bounces

Autoresponders/autoreply replies are marked as bounces

[Dan Andersen]

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Hi there,
 
Hope someone can help me out here.
 
When Im sending mails to the maillist by mlmmj and the subscriber got a autoreply/out of office agent running, the mail is returned as a bounce. I guess that the problem is that the responder is using the envelope-from address. 
 
Is it posible to force the autoresponder to reply to etc. the From: address ? 
 
There is no Return-Path header on the mail, is that a problem ?  If so...I have tried adding the header when Im sending the mail to the mlmmj list (by php), but It looks like it has been removed, either by mlmmj or postfix?!?! or am I missing another header?
 
Im using mlmmj 1.2.16 and postfix 2.3.3 
 
Kind Regards
Dan Andersen
_________________________________________________________________
Få den nye Windows Live Photo Gallery GRATIS her.
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Re: Autoresponders/autoreply replies are marked as bounces

[Yarema]

Dan Andersen wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> Hope someone can help me out here.
>
> When Im sending mails to the maillist by mlmmj and the subscriber
> got a autoreply/out of office agent running, the mail is returned
> as a bounce.
> I guess that the problem is that the responder is using the
> envelope-from address.
>
> Is it posible to force the autoresponder to reply to etc. the From:
> address ?
>
> There is no Return-Path header on the mail, is that a problem ?  If
> so...I have tried adding the header when Im sending the mail to the
> mlmmj list (by php), but It looks like it has been removed, either by
> mlmmj or postfix?!?! or am I missing another header?
>
> Im using mlmmj 1.2.16 and postfix 2.3.3

In my experience the Return-Path header is set by the receiving MTA
based on the envelope sender.  So manually setting the Return-Path
header will get you nowhere.  Seems to me that it's a problem with the
auto-responder over which you have no control.

-- 
Yarema

Re: Autoresponders/autoreply replies are marked as bounces

[Thomas Goirand]

Yarema wrote:
> Dan Andersen wrote:
>> Hi there,
>>
>> Hope someone can help me out here.
>>
>> When Im sending mails to the maillist by mlmmj and the subscriber
>> got a autoreply/out of office agent running, the mail is returned
>> as a bounce.
>> I guess that the problem is that the responder is using the
>> envelope-from address.
>>
>> Is it posible to force the autoresponder to reply to etc. the From:
>> address ?
>>
>> There is no Return-Path header on the mail, is that a problem ?  If
>> so...I have tried adding the header when Im sending the mail to the
>> mlmmj list (by php), but It looks like it has been removed, either by
>> mlmmj or postfix?!?! or am I missing another header?
>>
>> Im using mlmmj 1.2.16 and postfix 2.3.3
> 
> In my experience the Return-Path header is set by the receiving MTA
> based on the envelope sender.  So manually setting the Return-Path
> header will get you nowhere.  Seems to me that it's a problem with the
> auto-responder over which you have no control.

I agree. A good auto-responder should detect messages from a list. Our
autoresponders are using .mailfilter. In it I have this:

RECIPIENT=$LOGNAME
RESPOND="~/.vacation.msg"
RESPONDDB="~/.vacation.db"
if ( ! /^Precedence: (bulk|list|junk)/ && \
     ! /^List-Id:/ && \
     ! /^List-Unsubscribe:/ && \
     ! /^Return-Path:.*<#@\[\]>/ && \
     ! /^Return-Path:.*<>/ && \
     ! /^From:.*MAILER-DAEMON/ && \
     ! /^X-ClamAV-Notice-Flag: *YES/ && \
     ! /^Content-Type:.*message\/delivery-status/ && \
     ! /^Subject:.*Delivery Status Notification/ && \
     ! /^Subject:.*Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender/ && \
     ! /^Subject:.*Delivery failure/ && \
     ! /^Subject:.*Message delay/ && \
     ! /^Subject:.*Mail Delivery Subsystem/ && \
     ! /^Subject:.*Mail System Error.*Returned Mail/ && \
     ! /^X-Spam-Flag: YES/ )
{
        cc "| mailbot -t $RESPOND -d $RESPONDDB -D 1 -A 'From:
$RECIPIENT' -s 'Auto Response: from $RECIP
IENT' /usr/sbin/sendmail -t"

}

which I believe is enough to NOT send bounce messages. In the case of
MLMMJ, it will match the List-Id: header.

Has any of you other header types that my autoresponder should match?
Did we miss some?

Thomas

RE: Autoresponders/autoreply replies are marked as bounces

[Dan Andersen]

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> Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 01:32:49 +0800
> From: thomas@goirand.fr
> CC: mlmmj@mmj.dk
> Subject: Re: Autoresponders/autoreply replies are marked as bounces
> 
> Yarema wrote:
> > Dan Andersen wrote:
> >> Hi there,
> >>
> >> Hope someone can help me out here.
> >>
> >> When Im sending mails to the maillist by mlmmj and the subscriber
> >> got a autoreply/out of office agent running, the mail is returned
> >> as a bounce.
> >> I guess that the problem is that the responder is using the
> >> envelope-from address.
> >>
> >> Is it posible to force the autoresponder to reply to etc. the From:
> >> address ?
> >>
> >> There is no Return-Path header on the mail, is that a problem ? If
> >> so...I have tried adding the header when Im sending the mail to the
> >> mlmmj list (by php), but It looks like it has been removed, either by
> >> mlmmj or postfix?!?! or am I missing another header?
> >>
> >> Im using mlmmj 1.2.16 and postfix 2.3.3
> > 
> > In my experience the Return-Path header is set by the receiving MTA
> > based on the envelope sender. So manually setting the Return-Path
> > header will get you nowhere. Seems to me that it's a problem with the
> > auto-responder over which you have no control.
> 
> I agree. A good auto-responder should detect messages from a list. Our
> autoresponders are using .mailfilter. In it I have this:
> 
> RECIPIENT=$LOGNAME
> RESPOND="~/.vacation.msg"
> RESPONDDB="~/.vacation.db"
> if ( ! /^Precedence: (bulk|list|junk)/ && \
> ! /^List-Id:/ && \
> ! /^List-Unsubscribe:/ && \
> ! /^Return-Path:.*<#@\[\]>/ && \
> ! /^Return-Path:.*<>/ && \
> ! /^From:.*MAILER-DAEMON/ && \
> ! /^X-ClamAV-Notice-Flag: *YES/ && \
> ! /^Content-Type:.*message\/delivery-status/ && \
> ! /^Subject:.*Delivery Status Notification/ && \
> ! /^Subject:.*Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender/ && \
> ! /^Subject:.*Delivery failure/ && \
> ! /^Subject:.*Message delay/ && \
> ! /^Subject:.*Mail Delivery Subsystem/ && \
> ! /^Subject:.*Mail System Error.*Returned Mail/ && \
> ! /^X-Spam-Flag: YES/ )
> {
> cc "| mailbot -t $RESPOND -d $RESPONDDB -D 1 -A 'From:
> $RECIPIENT' -s 'Auto Response: from $RECIP
> IENT' /usr/sbin/sendmail -t"
> 
> }
> 
> which I believe is enough to NOT send bounce messages. In the case of
> MLMMJ, it will match the List-Id: header.
> 
> Has any of you other header types that my autoresponder should match?
> Did we miss some?
> 
> Thomas
> 


So what you'r saying is that im not missing any headers/settings, some mailserveres are just stupid and reply to the wrong email ?  What are some RFCxxx says about it, what are the right email to reply to ? The problem is also with Notes server, wich I asume is quite a large/big one.. ?

 

Im not caple of finding any rfc there describe wich email the mail server should reply to, can anyone help wich that?

 

Dan

 

_________________________________________________________________
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http://download.live.com/messenger

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Re: Autoresponders/autoreply replies are marked as bounces

[Thomas Goirand]

Dan Andersen wrote:
> So what you'r saying is that im not missing any headers/settings, some
> mailserveres are just stupid and reply to the wrong email ?

Correct. There are so many broken auto-responder out there...

> What are
> some RFCxxx says about it, what are the right email to reply to ?

That is more or less what I was asking to the list. The list of header
we are checking in our auto-responder implementation might be
wrong/incomplete...

> The
> problem is also with Notes server, wich I asume is quite a large/big one.. ?

Who said "the bigger the better" (Burger King apart...)?

> Im not caple of finding any rfc there describe wich email the mail
> server should reply to, can anyone help wich that?
>  
> Dan

I'd be happy to find it too.

Thomas

Re: Autoresponders/autoreply replies are marked as bounces

[Morten K. Poulsen]

On Sat, 2009-02-21 at 05:49 +0800, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> Dan Andersen wrote:
> > So what you'r saying is that im not missing any headers/settings, some
> > mailserveres are just stupid and reply to the wrong email ?
> 
> Correct. There are so many broken auto-responder out there...

True, but the one in question appears to be doing the correct thing:
Replying to the SMTP FROM address.

> > What are some RFCxxx says about it, what are the right email to
> > reply to ?
...
> > Im not caple of finding any rfc there describe wich email the mail
> > server should reply to, can anyone help wich that?

RFC 3834 - Recommendations for Automatic Responses to Electronic Mail


Do you set any RFC 2369 style List-* headers, e.g. List-Id? Or a
Precedence header? That might help the auto-responder.


Morten

-- 
Morten K. Poulsen <mopo@fabletech.com>
CTO, FableTech
http://fabletech.com/