IRC discussion about stable branch - 25.03.2009 12:00 GMT

IRC discussion about stable branch - 25.03.2009 12:00 GMT

[Marcin Juszkiewicz]

Hi

As few developers wants to talk about stable branch I proposed time for 
such one - tomorrow (25.03.2009) at 12:00 GMT. 

Place of meeting: #oe-stable at Freenode irc network.

We want to discuss some timelines and policies. Log and results will be 
posted to this mailinglist.

Everyone is invited as long as interested in stable branch of 
OpenEmbedded.

Regards, 
-- 
JID:      hrw@jabber.org
Website:  http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/marcinjuszkiewicz

Re: IRC discussion about stable branch - 25.03.2009 12:00 GMT

[Koen Kooi]

On 24-03-09 21:44, Marcin Juszkiewicz wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> As few developers wants to talk about stable branch I proposed time for
> such one - tomorrow (25.03.2009) at 12:00 GMT.
>
> Place of meeting: #oe-stable at Freenode irc network.
>
> We want to discuss some timelines and policies. Log and results will be
> posted to this mailinglist.

Can we please have this kind of discussions on the mailinglist instead 
of IRC? I don't have IRC access at work, but I do can read and write mails.

regards,

Koen

Re: IRC discussion about stable branch - 25.03.2009 12:00 GMT

[Philip Balister]

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Koen Kooi wrote:
> On 24-03-09 21:44, Marcin Juszkiewicz wrote:
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> As few developers wants to talk about stable branch I proposed time for
>> such one - tomorrow (25.03.2009) at 12:00 GMT.
>>
>> Place of meeting: #oe-stable at Freenode irc network.
>>
>> We want to discuss some timelines and policies. Log and results will be
>> posted to this mailinglist.
> 
> Can we please have this kind of discussions on the mailinglist instead 
> of IRC? I don't have IRC access at work, but I do can read and write mails.

We know that not everyone with can be there. Basically, we hope to get a 
general approach together, that will get further discussion on the list. 
We can only get so much done over a mailing list.

Philip

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Re: IRC discussion about stable branch - 25.03.2009 12:00 GMT

[Denys Dmytriyenko]

On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 09:44:28PM +0100, Marcin Juszkiewicz wrote:
> 
> Hi
> 
> As few developers wants to talk about stable branch I proposed time for 
> such one - tomorrow (25.03.2009) at 12:00 GMT. 

Is it noon or midnight? :)

> Place of meeting: #oe-stable at Freenode irc network.
> 
> We want to discuss some timelines and policies. Log and results will be 
> posted to this mailinglist.
> 
> Everyone is invited as long as interested in stable branch of 
> OpenEmbedded.

-- 
Denys

Re: IRC discussion about stable branch - 25.03.2009 12:00 GMT

[Philip Balister]

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Denys Dmytriyenko wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 09:44:28PM +0100, Marcin Juszkiewicz wrote:
>> Hi
>>
>> As few developers wants to talk about stable branch I proposed time for 
>> such one - tomorrow (25.03.2009) at 12:00 GMT. 
> 
> Is it noon or midnight? :)

Everyone knows 0000 GMT is midnight :)

Philip

> 
>> Place of meeting: #oe-stable at Freenode irc network.
>>
>> We want to discuss some timelines and policies. Log and results will be 
>> posted to this mailinglist.
>>
>> Everyone is invited as long as interested in stable branch of 
>> OpenEmbedded.
> 

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Re: IRC discussion about stable branch - 25.03.2009 12:00 GMT

[Junqian Gordon Xu]

On 03/24/2009 06:31 PM, Philip Balister wrote:
> Denys Dmytriyenko wrote:
>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 09:44:28PM +0100, Marcin Juszkiewicz wrote:
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> As few developers wants to talk about stable branch I proposed time 
>>> for such one - tomorrow (25.03.2009) at 12:00 GMT. 
>>
>> Is it noon or midnight? :)
> 
> Everyone knows 0000 GMT is midnight :)
> 
> Philip

That doesn't help much, as 12:00 pm GMT is still a valid and common 
date/time expression.

Gordon

> 
>>
>>> Place of meeting: #oe-stable at Freenode irc network.
>>>
>>> We want to discuss some timelines and policies. Log and results will 
>>> be posted to this mailinglist.
>>>
>>> Everyone is invited as long as interested in stable branch of 
>>> OpenEmbedded.
>>
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Openembedded-devel mailing list
> Openembedded-devel@lists.openembedded.org
> http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openembedded-devel

Re: IRC discussion about stable branch - 25.03.2009 12:00 GMT

[Philip Balister]

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Junqian Gordon Xu wrote:
> On 03/24/2009 06:31 PM, Philip Balister wrote:
>> Denys Dmytriyenko wrote:
>>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 09:44:28PM +0100, Marcin Juszkiewicz wrote:
>>>> Hi
>>>>
>>>> As few developers wants to talk about stable branch I proposed time 
>>>> for such one - tomorrow (25.03.2009) at 12:00 GMT. 
>>>
>>> Is it noon or midnight? :)
>>
>> Everyone knows 0000 GMT is midnight :)
>>
>> Philip
> 
> That doesn't help much, as 12:00 pm GMT is still a valid and common 
> date/time expression.

Think 24 hour time format ....

> 
> Gordon
> 
>>
>>>
>>>> Place of meeting: #oe-stable at Freenode irc network.
>>>>
>>>> We want to discuss some timelines and policies. Log and results will 
>>>> be posted to this mailinglist.
>>>>
>>>> Everyone is invited as long as interested in stable branch of 
>>>> OpenEmbedded.
>>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Openembedded-devel mailing list
>> Openembedded-devel@lists.openembedded.org
>> http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openembedded-devel
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Openembedded-devel mailing list
> Openembedded-devel@lists.openembedded.org
> http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openembedded-devel
> 

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Re: IRC discussion about stable branch - 25.03.2009 12:00 GMT

[Marcin Juszkiewicz]

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Hi

Below is summary of our meeting. I know that this is far from being 
perfect but it should show our thoughts.


Definition: OpenEmbedded stable branch is metadata. What users do with
metadata is their choice. We will work on making it buildable.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

1. Dealing with changes

First version of commit policy defines types of changes, review
process and testing.

Each change require review on mailing list and at least one Ack from
other developer (which can be one of stable maintainers or developers
which use stable branch). Preferred situation is when both developers
do not work for same company.

Types of changes:

a) change touches core system (which is anything in tested images or
   classes/)
b) change touches only machine which you maintain
c) change touches only your distro and and it builds
d) any new stuff which not touch tested stuff

Changes of first type will require 2 Acks and one of them must be
given by one of stable branch maintainers.

Last type changes are new distros, machines, recipes/classes etc.

Format of patches: "git format-patch" ones. If patchset is bigger then
few patches it would be nice to also give address of git repository
which can be pulled to get those changes.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

2. Testing of changes

Each change should be tested before getting accepted in repository. We
will use buildbot software for full (each time from scratch) and
incremental builds. This should give us repeatable builds without any
user assistance.

It is important to note that we will test for building. Testing on
target devices is left for users which can (and should) report bugs if
something is not working. More about reporting bugs later in that
text.

We also will not support whole metadata. There are recipes which are
broken in misc ways and not buildable machines. We will provide list
of supported machines, distributions and images. Those will be tested
for building by buildbots and developers.

Where and how to list what is supported? We got to few options:

- variable in supported machine.conf/distro.conf/recipe
- SUPPORTED file
- website

We also need to support building on some list of host systems:

- Debian stable and testing
- Ubuntu 8.04 and newer
- Fedora
- RHEL/Centos

All depends on availability of testers and requirements of users. This 
list is
not complete - if required new entries can be added.

There was suggestion about creating 'test scripts' which can be used
by users to do builds and automatically report success/failure.
Something like current tinderbox.openembedded.net service do but with
archive and some kind of processing to add results into list of
working systems.

We would need stable source mirror. Currently Ångström one looks like
best choice - it is driven by our developers and is hosted on
LinuxToGo/OpenEmbedded servers.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

3. Rejecting changes

We will reject changes which will break test builds. If someone will
report break of working system due to recent change we can also
consider reverting change.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

4. Handling bugs and user support

Handling bugs is a big issue. I think that we will use Bugzilla for it
as it good even if not every developer reads it daily.

We should not generate automatic bug reports during builds. What if
someone unplugs our build machine from half of internet? will be
massreport fetching problems?

The important thing is who is user of stable branch. By users we mean
developers which build stable. End users which use results of builds
should report bugs to their distro developers (and it is ok to be
stable branch maintainer and distro developer at same time).

Life of bug can looks like this:
1.  distro developer do build
1.1.  put results in distribution repositories
2.  end user install updates
3.  finds bug
3a. user reports bug in bugzilla
4.  distro developer checks bug
4.1.    do fix
4.1.1.  fix is sent to stable for review
4.2.    can not fix
4.2.1.  bug is sent to stable

Mailinglist - we will use OE-devel as it is primary one. Distros which
use stable branch can use own ones for handling users.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

5. list of stable branch maintainers

We will need at least 2-4 maintainers. During OpenZaurus times we did
most of development is such team so I think that this is total
minimum.

We need to list who maintains which machines/distros/recipes. So if
at91sam9263ek fails for Joe then he will ask me why it did that and
ask for fix.


List of developers which wants to be maintainers for stable branch:

- Marcin 'hrw' Juszkiewicz  - own company and Bug Labs Inc.
- Philip 'Crofton' Balister
- Marco 'mckoan' Cavallini  - Koan Software

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

6. Creation of stable branch

Stable branch will be created and published at the end of March 2009.

Branch will also contain last release of BitBake tool.

As branch name we chosen "stable/2009" and we plan to tag it monthly
with "year.month" as tags. Also monthly tarballs of metadata are
planned.

Expected life of branch: 1 year and it has to stay on server later.
No one will stop developers from working on stable/2009 branch when
"stable/2010" will get created. This also can show "stable/2009" with
2012.03 release (some companies require 10 years of lifetime).

Tarball releases: montly with build status attached (which distros,
machines were build tested).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Thats all - please share your thoughts and ideas. We are open for
developers who wants to maintain own machines, distros, recipes.


Regards, 
-- 
JID:      hrw@jabber.org
Website:  http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/marcinjuszkiewicz

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Re: IRC discussion about stable branch - 25.03.2009 12:00 GMT

[Otavio Salvador]

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Marcin Juszkiewicz <marcin@juszkiewicz.com.pl> writes:


[...]

> - Marcin 'hrw' Juszkiewicz  - own company and Bug Labs Inc.
> - Philip 'Crofton' Balister
> - Marco 'mckoan' Cavallini  - Koan Software

[...]

Please put me and Mario Goulart on this list. Mario, please ack this
mail.

- -- 
Otavio Salvador                  O.S. Systems
E-mail: otavio@ossystems.com.br  http://www.ossystems.com.br
Mobile: +55 53 9981-7854         http://projetos.ossystems.com.br
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Re: IRC discussion about stable branch - 25.03.2009 12:00 GMT

[Leon Woestenberg]

Hello,

2009/3/27 Marcin Juszkiewicz <marcin@juszkiewicz.com.pl>:
>
> Thats all - please share your thoughts and ideas. We are open for
> developers who wants to maintain own machines, distros, recipes.
>

Signing up; I think this time we want to base some product firmwares
off the stable branch so we MUST maintain it:

Machines: amcc460ex, mpc8313e-rdb, mpc8315e-rdb, sheevaplug
Distro: Angstrom
Recipes: related kernels, real-time kernels, any recipe I have touched before.

Regards,
-- 
Leon

Re: IRC discussion about stable branch - 25.03.2009 12:00 GMT

[Koen Kooi]

On 27-03-09 17:48, Marcin Juszkiewicz wrote:

> List of developers which wants to be maintainers for stable branch:
>
> - Marcin 'hrw' Juszkiewicz  - own company and Bug Labs Inc.
> - Philip 'Crofton' Balister
> - Marco 'mckoan' Cavallini  - Koan Software

Koen Kooi
Machines: beagleboard, leopardboard, sheevaplug
Distro: angstrom

regards,

Koen

Re: IRC discussion about stable branch - 25.03.2009 12:00 GMT

[Denys Dmytriyenko]

On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 04:19:59PM +0100, Koen Kooi wrote:
> On 27-03-09 17:48, Marcin Juszkiewicz wrote:
>
>> List of developers which wants to be maintainers for stable branch:
>>
>> - Marcin 'hrw' Juszkiewicz  - own company and Bug Labs Inc.
>> - Philip 'Crofton' Balister
>> - Marco 'mckoan' Cavallini  - Koan Software
>
> Koen Kooi
> Machines: beagleboard, leopardboard, sheevaplug
> Distro: angstrom

I guess I can do my best to look after some machines...

Denys 'denix' Dmytriyenko - Texas Instruments
Machines: omap3evm, davinci-dvevm
Distro: angstrom/arago

--
Denys

Re: IRC discussion about stable branch - 25.03.2009 12:00 GMT

[Mario Domenech Goulart]

On Sat, 28 Mar 2009 00:28:39 -0300 Otavio Salvador <otavio@ossystems.com.br> wrote:

> Marcin Juszkiewicz <marcin@juszkiewicz.com.pl> writes:
>
>> - Marcin 'hrw' Juszkiewicz  - own company and Bug Labs Inc.
>> - Philip 'Crofton' Balister
>> - Marco 'mckoan' Cavallini  - Koan Software
>
> Please put me and Mario Goulart on this list. Mario, please ack this
> mail.

Oops.  Missed this one.  Acked.

Best wishes.
Mario

Re: IRC discussion about stable branch - 25.03.2009 12:00 GMT

[Tom Rini]

On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 05:48:19PM +0100, Marcin Juszkiewicz wrote:
[snip]
> List of developers which wants to be maintainers for stable branch:
> 
> - Marcin 'hrw' Juszkiewicz  - own company and Bug Labs Inc.
> - Philip 'Crofton' Balister
> - Marco 'mckoan' Cavallini  - Koan Software

I've put this on the wiki page just now, but I'll sign up for
recipes / classes: SDK (*-cross-sdk, meta-toolchain*), Canadian SDK
related (canadian*bbclass, *canadian*.bb *mingw*.bb) 

-- 
Tom Rini