All of lore.kernel.org
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>
To: Daniel Reurich <daniel@centurion.net.nz>
Cc: Neil Brown <neilb@suse.de>,
	Dan Williams <dan.j.williams@intel.com>,
	Goswin von Brederlow <goswin-v-b@web.de>,
	linux-raid@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: md extension to support booting from raid whole disks.
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 17:28:22 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <49F79F26.9060309@zytor.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1240964410.18303.895.camel@ezra>

Daniel Reurich wrote:
>>>  
>> Grub is capable of doing that IF THE FIRMWARE CAN REACH IT.
> 
> Well if the firmware can't find one if the disks, then it doesn't matter
> what scheme we have.  Even a single disk won't work.

It is *quite* common that firmware can reach a subset of the disks.  If
not when the system is set up, then when a controller is blown and the
user has to install a new one.  I have seen this particular malfunction
up close more times than I can count.

> What's your beef. MD already reserve some space for the superblock, and
> write-intent bitmap (which I believe is also replicated across the
> member disks), so why not add some space to this to make it possible for
> a bootloader as well.

My beef is that you're actively promoting an extremely dangerous
concept, dangerous exactly because it is seductive -- "it seems so
easy."  Most users, you included, apparently, typically will have no
notion of the failure modes, and will pick the "easy" option.

Booting is ugly business.  I have dealt with the subtleties for almost
two decades, and it riles me when people go and foist off bad ideas on
users.

	-hpa

-- 
H. Peter Anvin, Intel Open Source Technology Center
I work for Intel.  I don't speak on their behalf.


  reply	other threads:[~2009-04-29  0:28 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 76+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2009-04-24 12:08 md extension to support booting from raid whole disks Daniel Reurich
2009-04-27 15:08 ` Goswin von Brederlow
2009-04-28  4:58   ` H. Peter Anvin
2009-04-28  6:26     ` Luca Berra
2009-04-28  9:35     ` Goswin von Brederlow
2009-04-28 11:21       ` Daniel Reurich
2009-04-28 17:36       ` H. Peter Anvin
2009-04-28 22:23         ` Daniel Reurich
2009-04-28 23:30           ` H. Peter Anvin
2009-04-29  0:02             ` Daniel Reurich
2009-04-29 11:32               ` John Robinson
2009-04-28 18:24     ` Dan Williams
2009-04-28 22:19       ` Daniel Reurich
2009-04-28 22:26         ` Dan Williams
2009-05-01 21:04           ` Goswin von Brederlow
2009-05-01 21:24             ` Dan Williams
2009-05-01 22:33               ` Goswin von Brederlow
2009-05-02 12:07                 ` John Robinson
2009-05-04 17:02                   ` Goswin von Brederlow
2009-05-05  9:31                   ` Michal Soltys
2009-04-28 23:05         ` Neil Brown
2009-04-28 23:20           ` H. Peter Anvin
2009-04-29  0:00             ` Daniel Reurich
2009-04-29  0:04               ` H. Peter Anvin
2009-04-29  0:20                 ` Daniel Reurich
2009-04-29  0:28                   ` H. Peter Anvin [this message]
2009-04-29  0:43                     ` Daniel Reurich
2009-04-29  6:43                       ` Gabor Gombas
2009-05-01 21:10                         ` Goswin von Brederlow
2009-05-01 22:36                           ` Rudy Zijlstra
2009-05-02  1:04                             ` Daniel Reurich
2009-05-02 17:02                               ` Michał Przyłuski
2009-05-03  1:33                                 ` Leslie Rhorer
2009-05-03  4:25                                   ` NeilBrown
2009-05-03 18:05                                     ` Leslie Rhorer
2009-05-04  3:04                                     ` Daniel Reurich
2009-05-08 21:50                                       ` Goswin von Brederlow
2009-05-08 22:16                                         ` NeilBrown
2009-05-08 22:29                                           ` Goswin von Brederlow
2009-05-12  5:39                                             ` Neil Brown
2009-05-12 19:44                                               ` Daniel Reurich
2009-05-13 11:12                                                 ` Neil Brown
2009-05-14  2:21                                                   ` Daniel Reurich
2009-05-15 16:13                                                   ` H. Peter Anvin
2009-05-13 12:15                                               ` Bill Davidsen
2009-05-08 22:06                                 ` Goswin von Brederlow
2009-05-09  7:20                                   ` Peter Rabbitson
2009-05-10  1:29                                     ` Goswin von Brederlow
     [not found]                             ` <87presxwu4.fsf@frosties.localdomain>
     [not found]                               ` <1241219902.9516.6.camel@poledra.romunt.nl>
     [not found]                                 ` <87bpq8n6ym.fsf@frosties.localdomain>
2009-05-04 20:57                                   ` Rudy Zijlstra
2009-05-04 22:33                                     ` Daniel Reurich
2009-05-05  0:26                                       ` John Robinson
2009-05-05  9:03                                         ` Keld Jørn Simonsen
2009-05-08 21:18                                     ` Goswin von Brederlow
2009-04-29 22:43                   ` md extension to support booting from raid whole disks, raid6, grub2, lvm2 Michael Ole Olsen
2009-05-01 21:36                     ` Goswin von Brederlow
2009-04-29  7:45             ` md extension to support booting from raid whole disks Luca Berra
2009-04-29 16:55               ` H. Peter Anvin
2009-04-29 20:38                 ` Luca Berra
2009-04-30  6:59               ` Gabor Gombas
2009-04-30  8:11                 ` Luca Berra
2009-04-30 13:01                   ` John Robinson
2009-04-28 23:41           ` Daniel Reurich
2009-04-29  0:01             ` H. Peter Anvin
2009-05-01 21:33           ` Goswin von Brederlow
2009-04-28  7:08   ` Daniel Reurich
2009-04-28 23:07 ` Neil Brown
2009-04-28 23:21   ` Daniel Reurich
2009-04-28 23:37   ` H. Peter Anvin
2009-04-29  0:05     ` Daniel Reurich
2009-04-29  0:06       ` H. Peter Anvin
2009-04-29  0:36         ` Daniel Reurich
2009-04-29  0:44           ` H. Peter Anvin
     [not found]             ` <1240968482.18303.1028.camel@ezra>
     [not found]               ` <49F7B162.8060301@zytor.com>
2009-04-29  2:08                 ` Daniel Reurich
2009-04-29  2:33                   ` H. Peter Anvin
2009-04-30  2:41             ` Daniel Reurich
2009-04-29  7:07           ` Gabor Gombas

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=49F79F26.9060309@zytor.com \
    --to=hpa@zytor.com \
    --cc=dan.j.williams@intel.com \
    --cc=daniel@centurion.net.nz \
    --cc=goswin-v-b@web.de \
    --cc=linux-raid@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=neilb@suse.de \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is an external index of several public inboxes,
see mirroring instructions on how to clone and mirror
all data and code used by this external index.