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From: Rik van Riel <riel@redhat.com>
To: Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>
Cc: KOSAKI Motohiro <kosaki.motohiro@jp.fujitsu.com>,
	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Wu Fengguang <fengguang.wu@intel.com>,
	hannes@cmpxchg.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, tytso@mit.edu,
	linux-mm@kvack.org, elladan@eskimo.com, npiggin@suse.de,
	cl@linux-foundation.org, minchan.kim@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [PATCH -mm] vmscan: make mapped executable pages the first class citizen
Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 16:37:33 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <4A073B0D.4090604@redhat.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20090510211350.7aecc8de@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>

Alan Cox wrote:

> Make your swap decisions depend upon I/O load on storage devices. Make
> your paging decisions based upon writing and reading large contiguous
> chunks (512K costs the same as 8K pretty much) - but you already know
> that .

Even a 2MB chunk only takes 3x as much time to write to
or read from disk as a 4kB page.

> Historically BSD tackled some of this by actually swapping processes out
> once pressure got very high 

Our big problem today usually isn't throughput though,
but latency - the time it takes to bring a previously
inactive application back to life.

If we have any throughput related memory problems,
they often seem to be due to TLB miss penalties.

I believe it is time to start looking into transparent
use of 2MB superpages for anonymous memory (and tmpfs?)
in Linux on x86-64.

I realize the utter horror of all the different corner
cases one can have with those. However, with a careful
design the problems should be manageable and the
advantages are many.

With a reservation based system, populating a 2MB area
4kB at a time until most of the area is in use by one
process (or not), waste can be kept to a minimum.

I guess I'll start with this the same way I started
with the split LRU code - think of all the ways things
could possibly go wrong and come up with a design that
seems mostly impervious to the downsides.

-- 
All rights reversed.

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Rik van Riel <riel@redhat.com>
To: Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>
Cc: KOSAKI Motohiro <kosaki.motohiro@jp.fujitsu.com>,
	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Wu Fengguang <fengguang.wu@intel.com>,
	hannes@cmpxchg.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, tytso@mit.edu,
	linux-mm@kvack.org, elladan@eskimo.com, npiggin@suse.de,
	cl@linux-foundation.org, minchan.kim@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [PATCH -mm] vmscan: make mapped executable pages the first class citizen
Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 16:37:33 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <4A073B0D.4090604@redhat.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20090510211350.7aecc8de@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>

Alan Cox wrote:

> Make your swap decisions depend upon I/O load on storage devices. Make
> your paging decisions based upon writing and reading large contiguous
> chunks (512K costs the same as 8K pretty much) - but you already know
> that .

Even a 2MB chunk only takes 3x as much time to write to
or read from disk as a 4kB page.

> Historically BSD tackled some of this by actually swapping processes out
> once pressure got very high 

Our big problem today usually isn't throughput though,
but latency - the time it takes to bring a previously
inactive application back to life.

If we have any throughput related memory problems,
they often seem to be due to TLB miss penalties.

I believe it is time to start looking into transparent
use of 2MB superpages for anonymous memory (and tmpfs?)
in Linux on x86-64.

I realize the utter horror of all the different corner
cases one can have with those. However, with a careful
design the problems should be manageable and the
advantages are many.

With a reservation based system, populating a 2MB area
4kB at a time until most of the area is in use by one
process (or not), waste can be kept to a minimum.

I guess I'll start with this the same way I started
with the split LRU code - think of all the ways things
could possibly go wrong and come up with a design that
seems mostly impervious to the downsides.

-- 
All rights reversed.

--
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  reply	other threads:[~2009-05-10 20:39 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 336+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2009-04-28  4:44 Swappiness vs. mmap() and interactive response Elladan
2009-04-28  5:35 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-28  5:35   ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-28  6:36   ` Elladan
2009-04-28  6:36     ` Elladan
2009-04-28  6:52     ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-28  6:52       ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-28  7:26       ` Elladan
2009-04-28  7:26         ` Elladan
2009-04-28  7:44         ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-28  7:44           ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-28  7:48   ` Peter Zijlstra
2009-04-28  7:48     ` Peter Zijlstra
2009-04-28  7:58     ` Balbir Singh
2009-04-28  7:58       ` Balbir Singh
2009-04-28  8:11       ` Peter Zijlstra
2009-04-28  8:11         ` Peter Zijlstra
2009-04-28  8:23         ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2009-04-28  8:23           ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2009-04-28  8:25         ` Balbir Singh
2009-04-28  8:25           ` Balbir Singh
2009-04-28  8:03     ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-28  8:03       ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-28  9:09     ` Wu Fengguang
2009-04-28  9:09       ` Wu Fengguang
2009-04-28  9:26       ` Wu Fengguang
2009-04-28  9:26         ` Wu Fengguang
2009-04-28 12:08       ` Theodore Tso
2009-04-28 12:08         ` Theodore Tso
2009-04-29  5:51         ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-29  5:51           ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-29  6:34           ` Andrew Morton
2009-04-29  6:34             ` Andrew Morton
2009-04-29  7:47             ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-29  7:47               ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-30  4:14             ` Elladan
2009-04-30  4:14               ` Elladan
2009-04-30  4:43               ` Andrew Morton
2009-04-30  4:43                 ` Andrew Morton
2009-04-30  4:55                 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-30  4:55                   ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-30  4:55                 ` Elladan
2009-04-30  4:55                   ` Elladan
2009-04-29  7:48           ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-29  7:48             ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-30 11:59           ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-30 11:59             ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-30 13:46             ` Elladan
2009-04-30 13:46               ` Elladan
2009-05-06 11:04             ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-05-06 11:04               ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-28 15:28   ` Rik van Riel
2009-04-28 23:29 ` [PATCH] vmscan: evict use-once pages first Rik van Riel
2009-04-28 23:29   ` Rik van Riel
2009-04-29  3:36   ` Elladan
2009-04-29  3:36     ` Elladan
2009-04-29 17:06     ` Christoph Hellwig
2009-04-29 17:06       ` Christoph Hellwig
2009-04-29  6:42   ` Peter Zijlstra
2009-04-29  6:42     ` Peter Zijlstra
2009-04-29 13:30     ` Rik van Riel
2009-04-29 13:30       ` Rik van Riel
2009-04-29 15:47     ` [PATCH] vmscan: evict use-once pages first (v2) Rik van Riel
2009-04-29 15:47       ` Rik van Riel
2009-04-29 16:07       ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-29 16:07         ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-29 16:18         ` Rik van Riel
2009-04-29 16:18           ` Rik van Riel
2009-04-29 17:14         ` [PATCH] vmscan: evict use-once pages first (v3) Rik van Riel
2009-04-29 17:14           ` Rik van Riel
2009-04-30  0:39           ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-30  0:39             ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-30  8:10           ` Johannes Weiner
2009-04-30  8:10             ` Johannes Weiner
2009-05-01 22:32           ` Andrew Morton
2009-05-01 22:32             ` Andrew Morton
2009-05-01 23:05             ` Rik van Riel
2009-05-01 23:05               ` Rik van Riel
2009-05-01 23:25               ` Andrew Morton
2009-05-01 23:25                 ` Andrew Morton
2009-05-03  1:28                 ` Wu Fengguang
2009-05-03  1:28                   ` Wu Fengguang
2009-05-03  1:15           ` Wu Fengguang
2009-05-03  1:15             ` Wu Fengguang
2009-05-03  1:33             ` Rik van Riel
2009-05-03  1:33               ` Rik van Riel
2009-05-03  1:46               ` Wu Fengguang
2009-05-03  1:46                 ` Wu Fengguang
2009-04-29 16:10       ` [PATCH] vmscan: evict use-once pages first (v2) Peter Zijlstra
2009-04-29 16:10         ` Peter Zijlstra
2009-04-30  7:20       ` Elladan
2009-04-30  7:20         ` Elladan
2009-04-30 13:08         ` Rik van Riel
2009-04-30 13:08           ` Rik van Riel
2009-04-30 14:00           ` Elladan
2009-04-30 14:00             ` Elladan
2009-05-01  0:45         ` Andrew Morton
2009-05-01  0:45           ` Andrew Morton
2009-05-01  0:59           ` Rik van Riel
2009-05-01  0:59             ` Rik van Riel
2009-05-01  1:13             ` Andrew Morton
2009-05-01  1:13               ` Andrew Morton
2009-05-01  1:50               ` Rik van Riel
2009-05-01  1:50                 ` Rik van Riel
2009-05-01  2:54                 ` Andrew Morton
2009-05-01  2:54                   ` Andrew Morton
2009-05-01 14:05                   ` Rik van Riel
2009-05-01 14:05                     ` Rik van Riel
2009-05-01 18:04                     ` Ray Lee
2009-05-01 18:04                       ` Ray Lee
2009-05-01 19:34                       ` Rik van Riel
2009-05-01 19:34                         ` Rik van Riel
2009-05-01 19:44                         ` Ray Lee
2009-05-01 19:44                           ` Ray Lee
2009-05-01 20:08                           ` Rik van Riel
2009-05-01 20:08                             ` Rik van Riel
2009-05-01 20:17                         ` Elladan
2009-05-01 20:17                           ` Elladan
2009-05-01 19:35                     ` Andrew Morton
2009-05-01 19:35                       ` Andrew Morton
2009-05-01 20:05                       ` Rik van Riel
2009-05-01 20:05                         ` Rik van Riel
2009-05-01 20:45                         ` Andrew Morton
2009-05-01 20:45                           ` Andrew Morton
2009-05-01 21:46                           ` Rik van Riel
2009-05-01 21:46                             ` Rik van Riel
2009-05-03  3:15                       ` Wu Fengguang
2009-05-03  3:15                         ` Wu Fengguang
2009-05-03  3:24                         ` Rik van Riel
2009-05-03  3:24                           ` Rik van Riel
2009-05-03  3:43                           ` Wu Fengguang
2009-05-03  3:43                             ` Wu Fengguang
2009-05-04 10:23                         ` Peter Zijlstra
2009-05-04 10:23                           ` Peter Zijlstra
2009-05-07 12:11                           ` [PATCH -mm] vmscan: make mapped executable pages the first class citizen Wu Fengguang
2009-05-07 12:11                             ` Wu Fengguang
2009-05-07 13:39                             ` Christoph Lameter
2009-05-07 13:39                               ` Christoph Lameter
2009-05-07 14:15                               ` Peter Zijlstra
2009-05-07 14:15                                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2009-05-07 14:18                                 ` Christoph Lameter
2009-05-07 14:18                                   ` Christoph Lameter
2009-05-07 14:38                                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2009-05-07 14:38                                     ` Peter Zijlstra
2009-05-07 15:36                                     ` Christoph Lameter
2009-05-07 15:36                                       ` Christoph Lameter
2009-05-07 15:59                                       ` Rik van Riel
2009-05-07 15:59                                         ` Rik van Riel
2009-05-07 15:06                                   ` Rik van Riel
2009-05-07 15:06                                     ` Rik van Riel
2009-05-07 16:00                                   ` Lee Schermerhorn
2009-05-07 16:00                                     ` Lee Schermerhorn
2009-05-07 16:32                                     ` Christoph Lameter
2009-05-07 16:32                                       ` Christoph Lameter
2009-05-07 17:11                                       ` Rik van Riel
2009-05-07 17:11                                         ` Rik van Riel
2009-05-08  3:40                                         ` Elladan
2009-05-08  3:40                                           ` Elladan
2009-05-08 16:04                                           ` Rik van Riel
2009-05-08 16:04                                             ` Rik van Riel
2009-05-09  4:04                                             ` Elladan
2009-05-09  4:04                                               ` Elladan
2009-05-08 17:18                                           ` Christoph Lameter
2009-05-08 17:18                                             ` Christoph Lameter
2009-05-09 10:20                                             ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-05-09 10:20                                               ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-05-08 17:37                                           ` Alan Cox
2009-05-08 17:37                                             ` Alan Cox
2009-05-07 15:10                             ` Johannes Weiner
2009-05-07 15:10                               ` Johannes Weiner
2009-05-07 15:17                               ` Peter Zijlstra
2009-05-07 15:17                                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2009-05-07 15:21                                 ` Rik van Riel
2009-05-07 15:21                                   ` Rik van Riel
2009-05-08  3:30                                 ` Wu Fengguang
2009-05-08  3:30                                   ` Wu Fengguang
2009-05-08  4:17                                 ` [RFC][PATCH] vmscan: report vm_flags in page_referenced() Wu Fengguang
2009-05-08  4:17                                   ` Wu Fengguang
2009-05-08 12:09                                   ` Minchan Kim
2009-05-08 12:09                                     ` Minchan Kim
2009-05-08 12:15                                     ` Wu Fengguang
2009-05-08 12:15                                       ` Wu Fengguang
2009-05-08 14:01                                       ` Minchan Kim
2009-05-08 14:01                                         ` Minchan Kim
2009-05-09  6:56                                         ` Wu Fengguang
2009-05-09  6:56                                           ` Wu Fengguang
2009-05-10 23:45                                           ` Minchan Kim
2009-05-10 23:45                                             ` Minchan Kim
2009-05-17 11:25                                             ` Wu Fengguang
2009-05-17 11:25                                               ` Wu Fengguang
2009-05-07 20:44                               ` [PATCH -mm] vmscan: make mapped executable pages the first class citizen Andrew Morton
2009-05-07 20:44                                 ` Andrew Morton
2009-05-08  8:16                                 ` Wu Fengguang
2009-05-08  8:16                                   ` Wu Fengguang
2009-05-08  8:28                                   ` Wu Fengguang
2009-05-08  8:28                                     ` Wu Fengguang
2009-05-08 19:58                                   ` Andrew Morton
2009-05-08 19:58                                     ` Andrew Morton
2009-05-08 22:00                                     ` Alan Cox
2009-05-08 22:00                                       ` Alan Cox
2009-05-08 22:15                                       ` Andrew Morton
2009-05-08 22:15                                         ` Andrew Morton
2009-05-08 22:53                                         ` Elladan
2009-05-08 22:53                                           ` Elladan
2009-05-08 22:20                                       ` Rik van Riel
2009-05-08 22:20                                         ` Rik van Riel
2009-05-10  8:59                                       ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-05-10  8:59                                         ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-05-10  9:07                                         ` Peter Zijlstra
2009-05-10  9:07                                           ` Peter Zijlstra
2009-05-10  9:35                                           ` Wu Fengguang
2009-05-10  9:35                                             ` Wu Fengguang
2009-05-10 10:06                                             ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-05-10 10:06                                               ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-05-10  9:36                                           ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-05-10  9:36                                             ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-05-10 13:45                                             ` Alan Cox
2009-05-10 13:45                                               ` Alan Cox
2009-05-10 13:56                                               ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-05-10 13:56                                                 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-05-10 14:51                                               ` Rik van Riel
2009-05-10 14:51                                                 ` Rik van Riel
2009-05-10 14:59                                                 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-05-10 14:59                                                   ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-05-10 20:13                                                 ` Alan Cox
2009-05-10 20:13                                                   ` Alan Cox
2009-05-10 20:37                                                   ` Rik van Riel [this message]
2009-05-10 20:37                                                     ` Rik van Riel
2009-05-10 21:23                                                     ` Arjan van de Ven
2009-05-10 21:23                                                       ` Arjan van de Ven
2009-05-11 10:03                                                       ` Johannes Weiner
2009-05-11 10:03                                                         ` Johannes Weiner
2009-05-10 21:29                                                     ` Alan Cox
2009-05-10 21:29                                                       ` Alan Cox
2009-05-10  9:20                                         ` Wu Fengguang
2009-05-10  9:20                                           ` Wu Fengguang
2009-05-10  9:29                                           ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-05-10  9:29                                             ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-05-10 10:03                                             ` Wu Fengguang
2009-05-10 10:03                                               ` Wu Fengguang
2009-05-10 10:15                                               ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-05-10 10:15                                                 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-05-10 11:21                                                 ` Wu Fengguang
2009-05-10 11:21                                                   ` Wu Fengguang
2009-05-10 11:39                                                   ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-05-10 11:39                                                     ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-05-10 11:44                                                     ` Wu Fengguang
2009-05-10 11:44                                                       ` Wu Fengguang
2009-05-10 12:19                                                       ` Peter Zijlstra
2009-05-10 12:19                                                         ` Peter Zijlstra
2009-05-10 12:39                                                         ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-05-10 12:39                                                           ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-05-10 13:17                                                           ` Peter Zijlstra
2009-05-10 13:17                                                             ` Peter Zijlstra
2009-05-12  2:50                                     ` Wu Fengguang
2009-05-12  2:50                                       ` Wu Fengguang
2009-05-12  4:35                                       ` Wu Fengguang
2009-05-12  4:35                                         ` Wu Fengguang
2009-05-12 13:20                                       ` Rik van Riel
2009-05-12 13:20                                         ` Rik van Riel
2009-05-16  9:26                                         ` Wu Fengguang
2009-05-16  9:26                                           ` Wu Fengguang
2009-05-12  2:51                                     ` [PATCH -mm] vmscan: report vm_flags in page_referenced() Wu Fengguang
2009-05-12  2:51                                       ` Wu Fengguang
2009-05-12  6:23                                       ` Peter Zijlstra
2009-05-12  6:23                                         ` Peter Zijlstra
2009-05-12  6:44                                         ` Minchan Kim
2009-05-12  6:44                                           ` Minchan Kim
2009-05-12 11:44                                           ` Wu Fengguang
2009-05-12 11:44                                             ` Wu Fengguang
2009-05-12  2:52                                     ` [PATCH -mm] vmscan: make mapped executable pages the first class citizen Wu Fengguang
2009-05-12  2:52                                       ` Wu Fengguang
2009-05-12  3:00                                       ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-05-12  3:00                                         ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-05-12 20:54                                         ` [PATCH -mm] vmscan: protect a fraction of file backed mapped pages from reclaim Christoph Lameter
2009-05-12 20:54                                           ` Christoph Lameter
2009-05-12 17:06                                           ` Rik van Riel
2009-05-12 17:06                                             ` Rik van Riel
2009-05-12 21:20                                             ` Christoph Lameter
2009-05-12 21:20                                               ` Christoph Lameter
2009-05-12 17:39                                               ` Rik van Riel
2009-05-12 17:39                                                 ` Rik van Riel
2009-05-12 22:02                                                 ` Christoph Lameter
2009-05-12 22:02                                                   ` Christoph Lameter
2009-05-12 20:17                                                   ` Rik van Riel
2009-05-12 20:17                                                     ` Rik van Riel
2009-05-12 20:26                                                     ` Christoph Lameter
2009-05-12 20:26                                                       ` Christoph Lameter
2009-05-13  0:45                                           ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-05-13  0:45                                             ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-05-14 20:14                                             ` Christoph Lameter
2009-05-14 20:14                                               ` Christoph Lameter
2009-05-14 23:28                                               ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-05-14 23:28                                                 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-05-14 23:42                                                 ` Rik van Riel
2009-05-14 23:42                                                   ` Rik van Riel
2009-05-15 18:09                                                 ` Christoph Lameter
2009-05-15 18:09                                                   ` Christoph Lameter
2009-05-16  8:54                                               ` Wu Fengguang
2009-05-16  8:54                                                 ` Wu Fengguang
2009-05-12  8:17                                       ` [PATCH -mm] vmscan: make mapped executable pages the first class citizen Minchan Kim
2009-05-12  8:17                                         ` Minchan Kim
2009-05-12  2:53                                     ` [PATCH -mm] vmscan: merge duplicate code in shrink_active_list() Wu Fengguang
2009-05-12  2:53                                       ` Wu Fengguang
2009-05-12  2:58                                       ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-05-12  2:58                                         ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-05-12  3:03                                         ` Wu Fengguang
2009-05-12  3:03                                           ` Wu Fengguang
2009-05-12  7:26                                       ` Minchan Kim
2009-05-12  7:26                                         ` Minchan Kim
2009-05-12 11:48                                         ` Wu Fengguang
2009-05-12 11:48                                           ` Wu Fengguang
2009-05-12 11:57                                           ` Minchan Kim
2009-05-12 11:57                                             ` Minchan Kim
2009-05-12 13:32                                           ` Rik van Riel
2009-05-12 13:32                                             ` Rik van Riel
2009-05-16  9:30                                             ` Wu Fengguang
2009-05-16  9:30                                               ` Wu Fengguang
2009-05-08  3:02                               ` [PATCH -mm] vmscan: make mapped executable pages the first class citizen Wu Fengguang
2009-05-08  3:02                                 ` Wu Fengguang
2009-05-08  7:30                                 ` Minchan Kim
2009-05-08  7:30                                   ` Minchan Kim
2009-05-08  8:09                                   ` Wu Fengguang
2009-05-08  8:09                                     ` Wu Fengguang
2009-05-08  9:34                                     ` Minchan Kim
2009-05-08  9:34                                       ` Minchan Kim
2009-05-08 14:25                                       ` Christoph Lameter
2009-05-08 14:25                                         ` Christoph Lameter
2009-05-08 14:34                                         ` Rik van Riel
2009-05-08 14:34                                           ` Rik van Riel
2009-05-08 17:41                                         ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-05-08 17:41                                           ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-05-04  8:04                       ` [PATCH] vmscan: evict use-once pages first (v2) Peter Zijlstra
2009-05-04  8:04                         ` Peter Zijlstra
2009-05-01  3:09           ` Elladan
2009-05-01  3:09             ` Elladan

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