Why was old TTM removed from drm.git?

Why was old TTM removed from drm.git?

[Pekka Paalanen]

Hi Thomas,

I meant to ask you this 24h ago:
why did you deliberately break Nouveau in drm.git?

The commit 9a33f62be1c478334572ea9384af60 "drm: Strip old ttm." not only
removes the old TTM, it explicitly removes Nouveau from Makefile. IMHO
this means you knew it broke Nouveau and you did not care. And there is
no explanation in the commit as to why. Did you ask any Nouveau developer
if it was ok?

It is true, that Nouveau is aiming for its own kernel tree for DRM
development, but it is not for all end users yet. Majority of our users
use the drm.git kernel modules for Nouveau, and now we get to explain
how it is not there anymore, and we have no guide to point them to.

2.6.31-rc1 is coming, bearing newTTM. If you had waited a week, we would
have had the kernel tree up and user documentation written on how to
build that, and breaking Nouveau in drm.git would not have mattered.

Well, rc1 is so near, that we probably won't bother fixing Nouveau in
drm.git. I just wish the transition would have been Nouveau developers'
decision.


Regards, pq

-- 
Pekka Paalanen
http://www.iki.fi/pq/

Re: Why was old TTM removed from drm.git?

[Thomas Hellström]

Hi, Pekka!

I'm sorry for this breakage. I thought drm master was currently used 
only for libdrm development, but
I see now that I didn't pay enough attention. Just prior to the commit I 
sent out a message explaining what I was going to do and why, but 
apparently it didn't make it to the list (which seems to be the case of 
quite a few mails these days).

Please feel free to revert that commit and pull it in again when you 
think it's OK, or perhaps anchor a nouveau drm branch just ahead of this 
commit. The old TTM is completely unmaintained and blocks any attempt to 
bring the drm.git master repo reasonably up to sync with what's in the 
kernel, so the sooner it goes away the better.

Again, Sorry for the breakage.

/Thomas


Pekka Paalanen wrote:
> Hi Thomas,
>
> I meant to ask you this 24h ago:
> why did you deliberately break Nouveau in drm.git?
>
> The commit 9a33f62be1c478334572ea9384af60 "drm: Strip old ttm." not only
> removes the old TTM, it explicitly removes Nouveau from Makefile. IMHO
> this means you knew it broke Nouveau and you did not care. And there is
> no explanation in the commit as to why. Did you ask any Nouveau developer
> if it was ok?
>
> It is true, that Nouveau is aiming for its own kernel tree for DRM
> development, but it is not for all end users yet. Majority of our users
> use the drm.git kernel modules for Nouveau, and now we get to explain
> how it is not there anymore, and we have no guide to point them to.
>
> 2.6.31-rc1 is coming, bearing newTTM. If you had waited a week, we would
> have had the kernel tree up and user documentation written on how to
> build that, and breaking Nouveau in drm.git would not have mattered.
>
> Well, rc1 is so near, that we probably won't bother fixing Nouveau in
> drm.git. I just wish the transition would have been Nouveau developers'
> decision.
>
>
> Regards, pq
>
>   




------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--

Re: Why was old TTM removed from drm.git?

[Pekka Paalanen]

On Wed, 24 Jun 2009 19:26:41 +0200
Thomas Hellström <thomas-4+hqylr40dJg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> wrote:

> Hi, Pekka!
> 
> I'm sorry for this breakage. I thought drm master was currently used 
> only for libdrm development, but
> I see now that I didn't pay enough attention. Just prior to the commit I 
> sent out a message explaining what I was going to do and why, but 
> apparently it didn't make it to the list (which seems to be the case of 
> quite a few mails these days).

Yeah, I read dri-devel@ daily, and I didn't notice anything. Of course
I could have missed it.

> Please feel free to revert that commit and pull it in again when you 
> think it's OK, or perhaps anchor a nouveau drm branch just ahead of this 
> commit. The old TTM is completely unmaintained and blocks any attempt to 
> bring the drm.git master repo reasonably up to sync with what's in the 
> kernel, so the sooner it goes away the better.
> 
> Again, Sorry for the breakage.

Don't worry, I believe we can live with this for the few days it takes
to get our replacement source going.

Bringing drm.git up to sync... are you saying someone is going to
start porting stuff from Linus' tree back to drm.git?
Isn't drm.git linux-core dying after all?


Thanks.

-- 
Pekka Paalanen
http://www.iki.fi/pq/

Re: Why was old TTM removed from drm.git?

[Michel Dänzer]

On Wed, 2009-06-24 at 19:26 +0200, Thomas Hellström wrote:
> 
> Just prior to the commit I sent out a message explaining what I was
> going to do and why, but apparently it didn't make it to the list
> (which seems to be the case of quite a few mails these days).

What was the From: address and subject of that mail (or any others that
were apparently lost)? I can't seem to find anything in the dri-devel
moderation queue mails around the weekend, so apparently it was dropped
before it reached mailman. Maybe some sf.net spam filter or something.


-- 
Earthling Michel Dänzer           |                http://www.vmware.com
Libre software enthusiast         |          Debian, X and DRI developer
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Re: Why was old TTM removed from drm.git?

[Thomas Hellström]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 899 bytes --]

Michel Dänzer skrev:
> On Wed, 2009-06-24 at 19:26 +0200, Thomas Hellström wrote:
>   
>> Just prior to the commit I sent out a message explaining what I was
>> going to do and why, but apparently it didn't make it to the list
>> (which seems to be the case of quite a few mails these days).
>>     
>
> What was the From: address and subject of that mail (or any others that
> were apparently lost)? I can't seem to find anything in the dri-devel
> moderation queue mails around the weekend, so apparently it was dropped
> before it reached mailman. Maybe some sf.net spam filter or something.
>
>
>   
Hi!
Attaching the mail and another one that was stripped. Furthermore
I had two patches sent by git-send-email stripped away, but when I 
routed them through the vmware smtp server they arrived.

It might be that sf.net doesn't like my isp email server.

/Thomas.




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From: "Thomas Hellström" <thomas-4+hqylr40dJg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org>
To: DRI <dri-devel-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org>
Subject: Stripping old ttm...
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 23:40:57 +0200
Message-ID: <4A3FFA69.4020400-4+hqylr40dJg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org>

Hi!

I'm about to push a commit that strips old TTM from the drm git repo. 
Not sure if anybody uses it for other things than libdrm, but at least 
that will remove some unused code.

The master nouveau driver will be disabled since it depends on old ttm.

/Thomas



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From: "Thomas Hellström" <thomas-4+hqylr40dJg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org>
Cc: DRI <dri-devel-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org>
Subject: Re: NEWTTM documentation
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 19:48:21 +0200
Message-ID: <4A4266E5.1080107-4+hqylr40dJg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org>

Okias,

The documentation available is the Xorg wiki TTM page (a little
outdated) and the ttm header files
which are quite well commented.

Currently there are three drivers using it
1) The Radeon KMS driver using a subset of the TTM functionality.
2) The Intel moorestown / Poulsbo driver which uses the full TTM
functionality including modesetting. Look at the list archives for
pointers to that.
3) The openchrome driver in the modesetting-newttm branch. No
modesetting yet for that one.

Note that the latter 2 drivers are using a tiny TTM user-space interface
which is never going to make it to the mainstream kernel. The openChrome
driver will be patched up to use a driver-specific version of that
interface.

/Thomas


okias wrote:
> Hello,
>
> exist any documentation related to newttm (except already exist
> drivers) + any HowTo for 'convert' fb driver + xorg driver to support
> memory manager + kms?
>
> Thanks
>
> okias
>
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