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From: Mark Lord <liml@rtr.ca>
To: Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>
Cc: James Bottomley <James.Bottomley@suse.de>,
	Chris Worley <worleys@gmail.com>, Matthew Wilcox <matthew@wil.cx>,
	Bryan Donlan <bdonlan@gmail.com>,
	david@lang.hm, Greg Freemyer <greg.freemyer@gmail.com>,
	Markus Trippelsdorf <markus@trippelsdorf.de>,
	Matthew Wilcox <willy@linux.intel.com>,
	Hugh Dickins <hugh.dickins@tiscali.co.uk>,
	Nitin Gupta <ngupta@vflare.org>, Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu>,
	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-mm@kvack.org,
	linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org, linux-ide@vger.kernel.org,
	Linux RAID <linux-raid@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: Discard support (was Re: [PATCH] swap: send callback when swap slot is freed)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 10:16:00 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <4A8814A0.4040708@rtr.ca> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20090816150530.2bae6d1f@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>

Alan Cox wrote:
>
> Flush barriers are nightmare for more than enterprise. You drive
> basically goes for a hike for a bit which trashes interactivity as well.
> If the device can't do trim and the like without a drain I don't see much
> point doing it at all, except maybe to wait for idle devices and run a
> filesystem managed background 'strimmer' thread to just weed out now idle
> blocks that have stayed idle - eg by adding an inode of all the deleted
> untrimmed blocks and giving it an irregular empty ?
..

Agreed.  And I believe Matthew also said something similar already.
TRIM for the current (only!) SSDs needs to be a "batched, once in a while"
operation, rather than something done continuously.

And ideally, "once in a while" might be once a day, or once we have more
than a significant percentage of the drive capacity ready for a TRIM.

It needs to batch a lot of stuff into a single TRIM,
and not do it very often at all.

Cheers

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WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Mark Lord <liml@rtr.ca>
To: Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>
Cc: James Bottomley <James.Bottomley@suse.de>,
	Chris Worley <worleys@gmail.com>, Matthew Wilcox <matthew@wil.cx>,
	Bryan Donlan <bdonlan@gmail.com>,
	david@lang.hm, Greg Freemyer <greg.freemyer@gmail.com>,
	Markus Trippelsdorf <markus@trippelsdorf.de>,
	Matthew Wilcox <willy@linux.intel.com>,
	Hugh Dickins <hugh.dickins@tiscali.co.uk>,
	Nitin Gupta <ngupta@vflare.org>, Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu>,
	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-mm@kvack.org,
	linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org, linux-ide@vger.kernel.org,
	Linux RAID <linux-raid@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: Discard support (was Re: [PATCH] swap: send callback when swap slot is freed)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 10:16:00 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <4A8814A0.4040708@rtr.ca> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20090816150530.2bae6d1f@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>

Alan Cox wrote:
>
> Flush barriers are nightmare for more than enterprise. You drive
> basically goes for a hike for a bit which trashes interactivity as well.
> If the device can't do trim and the like without a drain I don't see much
> point doing it at all, except maybe to wait for idle devices and run a
> filesystem managed background 'strimmer' thread to just weed out now idle
> blocks that have stayed idle - eg by adding an inode of all the deleted
> untrimmed blocks and giving it an irregular empty ?
..

Agreed.  And I believe Matthew also said something similar already.
TRIM for the current (only!) SSDs needs to be a "batched, once in a while"
operation, rather than something done continuously.

And ideally, "once in a while" might be once a day, or once we have more
than a significant percentage of the drive capacity ready for a TRIM.

It needs to batch a lot of stuff into a single TRIM,
and not do it very often at all.

Cheers

  reply	other threads:[~2009-08-16 14:16 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 207+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2009-08-12 14:37 [PATCH] swap: send callback when swap slot is freed Nitin Gupta
2009-08-12 14:37 ` Nitin Gupta
2009-08-12 18:33 ` Peter Zijlstra
2009-08-12 22:13 ` Andrew Morton
2009-08-12 22:48 ` Hugh Dickins
2009-08-12 22:48   ` Hugh Dickins
2009-08-13  2:30   ` Nitin Gupta
2009-08-13  2:30     ` Nitin Gupta
2009-08-13  6:53     ` Peter Zijlstra
2009-08-13  6:53       ` Peter Zijlstra
2009-08-13 14:44       ` Nitin Gupta
2009-08-13 14:44         ` Nitin Gupta
2009-08-13 17:45     ` Hugh Dickins
2009-08-13 17:45       ` Hugh Dickins
2009-08-13  2:41   ` Nitin Gupta
2009-08-13  2:41     ` Nitin Gupta
2009-08-13  5:05     ` compcache as a pre-swap area (was: [PATCH] swap: send callback when swap slot is freed) Al Boldi
2009-08-13  5:05       ` Al Boldi
2009-08-13 17:31       ` Nitin Gupta
2009-08-13 17:31         ` Nitin Gupta
2009-08-14  4:02         ` Al Boldi
2009-08-14  4:02           ` Al Boldi
2009-08-14  4:53           ` compcache as a pre-swap area Nitin Gupta
2009-08-14  4:53             ` Nitin Gupta
2009-08-14 15:49             ` Al Boldi
2009-08-14 15:49               ` Al Boldi
2009-08-15 11:00               ` Al Boldi
2009-08-15 11:00                 ` Al Boldi
2009-08-13 15:13   ` Discard support (was Re: [PATCH] swap: send callback when swap slot is freed) Matthew Wilcox
2009-08-13 15:13     ` Matthew Wilcox
2009-08-13 15:17     ` david
2009-08-13 15:17       ` david
2009-08-13 15:26       ` Matthew Wilcox
2009-08-13 15:26         ` Matthew Wilcox
2009-08-13 15:43     ` James Bottomley
2009-08-13 15:43       ` James Bottomley
2009-08-13 18:22       ` Ric Wheeler
2009-08-13 18:22         ` Ric Wheeler
2009-08-13 16:13     ` Nitin Gupta
2009-08-13 16:13       ` Nitin Gupta
2009-08-13 16:26     ` Markus Trippelsdorf
2009-08-13 16:26       ` Markus Trippelsdorf
2009-08-13 16:33       ` david
2009-08-13 16:33         ` david
2009-08-13 18:15         ` Greg Freemyer
2009-08-13 18:15           ` Greg Freemyer
2009-08-13 18:15           ` Greg Freemyer
2009-08-13 19:18           ` James Bottomley
2009-08-13 19:18             ` James Bottomley
2009-08-13 20:31             ` Richard Sharpe
2009-08-13 20:31               ` Richard Sharpe
2009-08-13 20:31               ` Richard Sharpe
2009-08-14 22:03             ` Mark Lord
2009-08-14 22:03               ` Mark Lord
2009-08-14 22:54               ` Greg Freemyer
2009-08-14 22:54                 ` Greg Freemyer
2009-08-15 13:12                 ` Mark Lord
2009-08-15 13:12                   ` Mark Lord
2009-08-13 20:44           ` david
2009-08-13 20:44             ` david
2009-08-13 20:54             ` Bryan Donlan
2009-08-13 20:54               ` Bryan Donlan
2009-08-14 22:10               ` Mark Lord
2009-08-14 22:10                 ` Mark Lord
2009-08-14 23:21                 ` Chris Worley
2009-08-14 23:21                   ` Chris Worley
2009-08-14 23:45                   ` Matthew Wilcox
2009-08-14 23:45                     ` Matthew Wilcox
2009-08-15  0:19                     ` Chris Worley
2009-08-15  0:19                       ` Chris Worley
2009-08-15  0:30                       ` Greg Freemyer
2009-08-15  0:30                         ` Greg Freemyer
2009-08-15  0:38                         ` Chris Worley
2009-08-15  0:38                           ` Chris Worley
2009-08-15  0:38                           ` Chris Worley
2009-08-15  1:55                           ` Greg Freemyer
2009-08-15  1:55                             ` Greg Freemyer
2009-08-15  1:55                             ` Greg Freemyer
2009-08-15 13:20                           ` Mark Lord
2009-08-15 13:20                             ` Mark Lord
2009-08-16 22:52                             ` Chris Worley
2009-08-16 22:52                               ` Chris Worley
2009-08-17  2:03                               ` Mark Lord
2009-08-17  2:03                                 ` Mark Lord
2009-08-15 12:59                       ` James Bottomley
2009-08-15 12:59                         ` James Bottomley
2009-08-15 13:22                         ` Mark Lord
2009-08-15 13:22                           ` Mark Lord
2009-08-15 13:55                           ` James Bottomley
2009-08-15 13:55                             ` James Bottomley
2009-08-15 17:39                             ` jim owens
2009-08-15 17:39                               ` jim owens
2009-08-16 17:08                               ` Robert Hancock
2009-08-16 17:08                                 ` Robert Hancock
2009-08-16 14:05                             ` Alan Cox
2009-08-16 14:05                               ` Alan Cox
2009-08-16 14:16                               ` Mark Lord [this message]
2009-08-16 14:16                                 ` Mark Lord
2009-08-16 15:34                               ` Arjan van de Ven
2009-08-16 15:34                                 ` Arjan van de Ven
2009-08-16 15:44                                 ` Theodore Tso
2009-08-16 15:44                                   ` Theodore Tso
2009-08-16 17:28                                   ` Mark Lord
2009-08-16 17:28                                   ` Mark Lord
2009-08-16 17:28                                     ` Mark Lord
2009-08-16 17:37                                     ` Mark Lord
2009-08-16 17:37                                     ` Mark Lord
2009-08-16 17:37                                     ` Mark Lord
2009-08-16 17:37                                     ` Mark Lord
2009-08-16 17:37                                       ` Mark Lord
2009-08-16 17:37                                       ` Mark Lord
2009-08-17 16:30                                       ` Bill Davidsen
2009-08-17 16:30                                         ` Bill Davidsen
2009-08-17 16:56                                         ` jim owens
2009-08-17 16:56                                           ` jim owens
2009-08-17 17:14                                           ` Bill Davidsen
2009-08-17 17:14                                             ` Bill Davidsen
2009-08-17 17:37                                             ` jim owens
2009-08-17 17:37                                               ` jim owens
2009-08-16 17:28                                   ` Mark Lord
2009-08-16 17:28                                   ` Mark Lord
2009-08-16 15:52                                 ` James Bottomley
2009-08-16 15:52                                   ` James Bottomley
2009-08-16 16:32                                   ` Mark Lord
2009-08-16 16:32                                     ` Mark Lord
2009-08-16 16:32                                     ` Mark Lord
2009-08-16 18:07                                     ` James Bottomley
2009-08-16 18:07                                       ` James Bottomley
2009-08-16 18:19                                       ` Mark Lord
2009-08-16 18:19                                         ` Mark Lord
2009-08-16 18:19                                         ` Mark Lord
2009-08-16 18:24                                         ` James Bottomley
2009-08-16 18:24                                           ` James Bottomley
2009-08-17 16:37                                           ` Bill Davidsen
2009-08-17 16:37                                             ` Bill Davidsen
2009-08-17 16:37                                             ` Bill Davidsen
2009-08-17 17:08                                             ` Greg Freemyer
2009-08-17 17:08                                               ` Greg Freemyer
2009-08-17 17:19                                               ` James Bottomley
2009-08-17 17:19                                                 ` James Bottomley
2009-08-17 18:16                                                 ` Ric Wheeler
2009-08-17 18:16                                                   ` Ric Wheeler
2009-08-17 18:21                                                 ` Greg Freemyer
2009-08-17 18:21                                                   ` Greg Freemyer
2009-08-17 18:21                                                   ` Greg Freemyer
2009-08-17 19:18                                                   ` James Bottomley
2009-08-17 19:18                                                     ` James Bottomley
2009-08-17 20:19                                                     ` Mark Lord
2009-08-17 20:19                                                       ` Mark Lord
2009-08-17 20:28                                                       ` James Bottomley
2009-08-17 20:28                                                         ` James Bottomley
2009-08-17 20:28                                               ` Mark Lord
2009-08-17 20:28                                                 ` Mark Lord
2009-08-16 16:59                                   ` Christoph Hellwig
2009-08-16 16:59                                     ` Christoph Hellwig
2009-08-17  4:24                                     ` Douglas Gilbert
2009-08-17  4:24                                       ` Douglas Gilbert
2009-08-17 13:56                                     ` James Bottomley
2009-08-17 13:56                                       ` James Bottomley
2009-08-17 14:10                                       ` Matthew Wilcox
2009-08-17 14:10                                         ` Matthew Wilcox
2009-08-17 19:12                                         ` Christoph Hellwig
2009-08-17 19:12                                           ` Christoph Hellwig
2009-08-17 19:24                                           ` James Bottomley
2009-08-17 19:24                                             ` James Bottomley
2009-08-16 21:50                                   ` Discard support Roland Dreier
2009-08-16 21:50                                     ` Roland Dreier
2009-08-16 22:06                                     ` Jeff Garzik
2009-08-16 22:06                                       ` Jeff Garzik
2009-08-16 22:06                                       ` Jeff Garzik
2009-08-16 22:13                                     ` Theodore Tso
2009-08-16 22:13                                       ` Theodore Tso
2009-08-16 22:51                                       ` Mark Lord
2009-08-16 22:51                                       ` Mark Lord
2009-08-16 22:51                                       ` Mark Lord
2009-08-16 22:51                                         ` Mark Lord
2009-08-16 22:51                                       ` Mark Lord
2009-08-16 19:29                                 ` Discard support (was Re: [PATCH] swap: send callback when swap slot is freed) Alan Cox
2009-08-16 19:29                                   ` Alan Cox
2009-08-16 23:05                                   ` John Robinson
2009-08-16 23:05                                     ` John Robinson
2009-08-17  2:05                                     ` Mark Lord
2009-08-17  2:05                                       ` Mark Lord
2009-08-13 21:28             ` Greg Freemyer
2009-08-13 21:28               ` Greg Freemyer
2009-08-13 22:20               ` Richard Sharpe
2009-08-13 22:20                 ` Richard Sharpe
2009-08-13 22:20                 ` Richard Sharpe
2009-08-14  0:19                 ` Greg Freemyer
2009-08-14  0:19                   ` Greg Freemyer
     [not found]                   ` <46b8a8850908131758s781b07f6v2729483c0e50ae7a@mail.gmail.com>
2009-08-14 21:33                     ` Greg Freemyer
2009-08-14 21:33                       ` Greg Freemyer
2009-08-14 21:56                       ` Discard support Roland Dreier
2009-08-14 21:56                         ` Roland Dreier
2009-08-14 22:10                         ` Greg Freemyer
2009-08-14 22:10                           ` Greg Freemyer
2009-08-14 21:33                     ` Discard support (was Re: [PATCH] swap: send callback when swap slot is freed) Greg Freemyer
2009-08-14 21:33                     ` Greg Freemyer
2009-08-14 21:33                     ` Greg Freemyer
2009-08-13 17:19     ` Hugh Dickins
2009-08-13 17:19       ` Hugh Dickins
2009-08-13 18:08     ` Douglas Gilbert
2009-08-13 18:08       ` Douglas Gilbert
2009-08-17  2:55 ` [PATCH] swap: send callback when swap slot is freed KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2009-08-17  5:08   ` Nitin Gupta
2009-08-17  5:11     ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2009-08-22  7:34   ` Nai Xia

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