Customization of GRUB2

Customization of GRUB2

[Bruce Dubbs]

I am trying to provide documentation about GRUB2 (1.97.1) customization 
for the Linux From Scratch book.  I am having quite a bit of trouble 
finding anything describing how to set up a splash screen directly in 
grub.cfg.

I've looked in info, faqs, the GRUB2 wiki, and google.  I do find 
references to /etc/grub.d/05_debian_theme, but that is an indirect way 
of customizing grub.cfg.  I am trying to show our LFS users how to edit 
grub.cfg directly.

Right now I have tried a reasonably simple configuration:

### grub.cfg
set default=0
set timeout=15

insmod ext2
set root=(hd0,1)

loadfont /grub/unifont.pf2
#set gfxmode="1024x768;800x600;640x480"
insmod gfxterm
insmod vbe
insmod png

terminal_output gfxterm
if terminal_output gfxterm ; then true ; else
     terminal gfxterm
fi

if background_image=/grub/lfs-logo2.png ; then
     set menu_color_normal=red/black
     set menu_color_highlight=green/black
else
     set menu_color_normal=cyan/blue
     set menu_color_highlight=white/blue
fi

#menuentrys
...
----------------

The primary function of GRUB, booting the OS, works great. However
the background image does not display.

Dropping to the command line shows that gfxterm is enabled, the font is 
loaded, and the background image is loaded.

terminfo shows VT100.

Reloading the background image from the command line brings up the image 
and returning to the menu then works with the image now displayed, 
although I can not find any documentation or examples on how to control 
the menu frame or menu items.

I hesitate to claim that the problem I am having is a bug in the code, 
but I do wonder if the problem is in my configuration or the code.

Any insights or pointers to documentation of customization or examples 
of grub.cfg will be much appreciated.

   -- Bruce

Re: Customization of GRUB2

[Vladimir 'φ-coder/phcoder' Serbinenko]

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Bruce Dubbs wrote:
> I am trying to provide documentation about GRUB2 (1.97.1)
> customization for the Linux From Scratch book.  I am having quite a
> bit of trouble finding anything describing how to set up a splash
> screen directly in grub.cfg.
>
Could you help us with documenting grub better? Patches against texinfo
manual are welcome
> I've looked in info, faqs, the GRUB2 wiki, and google.  I do find
> references to /etc/grub.d/05_debian_theme, but that is an indirect way
> of customizing grub.cfg.  I am trying to show our LFS users how to
> edit grub.cfg directly.
>
> Right now I have tried a reasonably simple configuration:
>
> ### grub.cfg
> set default=0
> set timeout=15
>
> insmod ext2
> set root=(hd0,1)
>
> loadfont /grub/unifont.pf2
> #set gfxmode="1024x768;800x600;640x480"
> insmod gfxterm
> insmod vbe
> insmod png
>
> terminal_output gfxterm
> if terminal_output gfxterm ; then true ; else
>     terminal gfxterm
> fi
>
> if background_image=/grub/lfs-logo2.png ; then
There is a space between background_imge and filename, not '='
if background_image /grub/lfs-logo2.png ; then
>     set menu_color_normal=red/black
>     set menu_color_highlight=green/black
> else
>     set menu_color_normal=cyan/blue
>     set menu_color_highlight=white/blue
> fi
>
> #menuentrys
> ...
> ----------------
>
> The primary function of GRUB, booting the OS, works great. However
> the background image does not display.
>
> Dropping to the command line shows that gfxterm is enabled, the font
> is loaded, and the background image is loaded.
>
> terminfo shows VT100.
>
> Reloading the background image from the command line brings up the
> image and returning to the menu then works with the image now
> displayed, although I can not find any documentation or examples on
> how to control the menu frame or menu items.
>
> I hesitate to claim that the problem I am having is a bug in the code,
> but I do wonder if the problem is in my configuration or the code.
>
> Any insights or pointers to documentation of customization or examples
> of grub.cfg will be much appreciated.
>
>   -- Bruce
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Grub-devel mailing list
> Grub-devel@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/grub-devel
>


-- 
Regards
Vladimir 'φ-coder/phcoder' Serbinenko



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Re: Customization of GRUB2

[Bruce Dubbs]

Vladimir 'φ-coder/phcoder' Serbinenko wrote:
> Bruce Dubbs wrote:
>> I am trying to provide documentation about GRUB2 (1.97.1)
>> customization for the Linux From Scratch book.  I am having quite a
>> bit of trouble finding anything describing how to set up a splash
>> screen directly in grub.cfg.

> Could you help us with documenting grub better? Patches against texinfo
> manual are welcome

I may be able to do that, however, I need to learn it myself.
I don't really mind reading code either, but a general idea about
where the drawing of the menu entries is located would be helpful.

I quick check shows that GRUB2 has 287 .c files, but I suspect that most 
of the menu customization is handled in the term/ directory.

Are there and specifications, design documents, examples, or other 
places that I can look at to better understand GRUB2 menu customization?

>> I've looked in info, faqs, the GRUB2 wiki, and google.  I do find
>> references to /etc/grub.d/05_debian_theme, but that is an indirect way
>> of customizing grub.cfg.  I am trying to show our LFS users how to
>> edit grub.cfg directly.

>> if background_image=/grub/lfs-logo2.png ; then

> There is a space between background_imge and filename, not '='
> if background_image /grub/lfs-logo2.png ; then

This is exactly what I was looking for.  It comes up properly now.
Thanks.

   -- Bruce

Re: Customization of GRUB2

[Seth Goldberg]

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Hi,

   I'm going to make an unpopular suggestion, so feel free to tell me to take a 
hike, but I think Bruce's question highlights a very important point-- the 
documentation that we have for GRUB2 at this point is very poor.  In order to 
continue to get new users to use GRUB2, we need quality documentation at least 
initially written by the people who authored the code.  User documentation is 
at least as important as the multitude of features that are pouring in, and I 
think we'll see a dramatic uptake of GRUB2 as well as a more-satisfied 
userbase with comprehensive documentation.  Feel free to flame me, but this 
is my opinion.

  --S


Quoting Vladimir 'φ-coder/phcoder' Serbinenko, who wrote the following on...:

> Bruce Dubbs wrote:
>> I am trying to provide documentation about GRUB2 (1.97.1)
>> customization for the Linux From Scratch book.  I am having quite a
>> bit of trouble finding anything describing how to set up a splash
>> screen directly in grub.cfg.
>>
> Could you help us with documenting grub better? Patches against texinfo
> manual are welcome
>> I've looked in info, faqs, the GRUB2 wiki, and google.  I do find
>> references to /etc/grub.d/05_debian_theme, but that is an indirect way
>> of customizing grub.cfg.  I am trying to show our LFS users how to
>> edit grub.cfg directly.
>>
>> Right now I have tried a reasonably simple configuration:
>>
>> ### grub.cfg
>> set default=0
>> set timeout=15
>>
>> insmod ext2
>> set root=(hd0,1)
>>
>> loadfont /grub/unifont.pf2
>> #set gfxmode="1024x768;800x600;640x480"
>> insmod gfxterm
>> insmod vbe
>> insmod png
>>
>> terminal_output gfxterm
>> if terminal_output gfxterm ; then true ; else
>>     terminal gfxterm
>> fi
>>
>> if background_image=/grub/lfs-logo2.png ; then
> There is a space between background_imge and filename, not '='
> if background_image /grub/lfs-logo2.png ; then
>>     set menu_color_normal=red/black
>>     set menu_color_highlight=green/black
>> else
>>     set menu_color_normal=cyan/blue
>>     set menu_color_highlight=white/blue
>> fi
>>
>> #menuentrys
>> ...
>> ----------------
>>
>> The primary function of GRUB, booting the OS, works great. However
>> the background image does not display.
>>
>> Dropping to the command line shows that gfxterm is enabled, the font
>> is loaded, and the background image is loaded.
>>
>> terminfo shows VT100.
>>
>> Reloading the background image from the command line brings up the
>> image and returning to the menu then works with the image now
>> displayed, although I can not find any documentation or examples on
>> how to control the menu frame or menu items.
>>
>> I hesitate to claim that the problem I am having is a bug in the code,
>> but I do wonder if the problem is in my configuration or the code.
>>
>> Any insights or pointers to documentation of customization or examples
>> of grub.cfg will be much appreciated.
>>
>>   -- Bruce
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Grub-devel mailing list
>> Grub-devel@gnu.org
>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/grub-devel
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Regards
> Vladimir 'φ-coder/phcoder' Serbinenko
>
>
>

Re: Customization of GRUB2

[Vladimir 'φ-coder/phcoder' Serbinenko]

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Seth Goldberg wrote:
> Hi,
>
>   I'm going to make an unpopular suggestion, so feel free to tell me
> to take a hike, but I think Bruce's question highlights a very
> important point-- the documentation that we have for GRUB2 at this
> point is very poor.  In order to continue to get new users to use
> GRUB2, we need quality documentation at least initially written by the
> people who authored the code.  User documentation is at least as
> important as the multitude of features that are pouring in, and I
> think we'll see a dramatic uptake of GRUB2 as well as a more-satisfied
> userbase with comprehensive documentation.  Feel free to flame me, but
> this is my opinion.
>
Well AFAIK everyone agrees that we have almost no documentation and that
it's bad. There is some info on grub.enbug.org but it's just put there
and is quite unorganised. Unfortunately till now nobody proposed himself
to help with documentation even though everyone who compiles grub2 sees
2 pages of errors when compiling manual
>  --S
>
>
> Quoting Vladimir 'φ-coder/phcoder' Serbinenko, who wrote the following
> on...:
>
>> Bruce Dubbs wrote:
>>> I am trying to provide documentation about GRUB2 (1.97.1)
>>> customization for the Linux From Scratch book.  I am having quite a
>>> bit of trouble finding anything describing how to set up a splash
>>> screen directly in grub.cfg.
>>>
>> Could you help us with documenting grub better? Patches against texinfo
>> manual are welcome
>>> I've looked in info, faqs, the GRUB2 wiki, and google.  I do find
>>> references to /etc/grub.d/05_debian_theme, but that is an indirect way
>>> of customizing grub.cfg.  I am trying to show our LFS users how to
>>> edit grub.cfg directly.
>>>
>>> Right now I have tried a reasonably simple configuration:
>>>
>>> ### grub.cfg
>>> set default=0
>>> set timeout=15
>>>
>>> insmod ext2
>>> set root=(hd0,1)
>>>
>>> loadfont /grub/unifont.pf2
>>> #set gfxmode="1024x768;800x600;640x480"
>>> insmod gfxterm
>>> insmod vbe
>>> insmod png
>>>
>>> terminal_output gfxterm
>>> if terminal_output gfxterm ; then true ; else
>>>     terminal gfxterm
>>> fi
>>>
>>> if background_image=/grub/lfs-logo2.png ; then
>> There is a space between background_imge and filename, not '='
>> if background_image /grub/lfs-logo2.png ; then
>>>     set menu_color_normal=red/black
>>>     set menu_color_highlight=green/black
>>> else
>>>     set menu_color_normal=cyan/blue
>>>     set menu_color_highlight=white/blue
>>> fi
>>>
>>> #menuentrys
>>> ...
>>> ----------------
>>>
>>> The primary function of GRUB, booting the OS, works great. However
>>> the background image does not display.
>>>
>>> Dropping to the command line shows that gfxterm is enabled, the font
>>> is loaded, and the background image is loaded.
>>>
>>> terminfo shows VT100.
>>>
>>> Reloading the background image from the command line brings up the
>>> image and returning to the menu then works with the image now
>>> displayed, although I can not find any documentation or examples on
>>> how to control the menu frame or menu items.
>>>
>>> I hesitate to claim that the problem I am having is a bug in the code,
>>> but I do wonder if the problem is in my configuration or the code.
>>>
>>> Any insights or pointers to documentation of customization or examples
>>> of grub.cfg will be much appreciated.
>>>
>>>   -- Bruce
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Grub-devel mailing list
>>> Grub-devel@gnu.org
>>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/grub-devel
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Regards
>> Vladimir 'φ-coder/phcoder' Serbinenko
>>
>>
>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Grub-devel mailing list
> Grub-devel@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/grub-devel
>   


-- 
Regards
Vladimir 'φ-coder/phcoder' Serbinenko



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Re: Customization of GRUB2

[Vladimir 'φ-coder/phcoder' Serbinenko]

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Bruce Dubbs wrote:
> Vladimir 'φ-coder/phcoder' Serbinenko wrote:
>> Bruce Dubbs wrote:
>>> I am trying to provide documentation about GRUB2 (1.97.1)
>>> customization for the Linux From Scratch book.  I am having quite a
>>> bit of trouble finding anything describing how to set up a splash
>>> screen directly in grub.cfg.
>
>> Could you help us with documenting grub better? Patches against texinfo
>> manual are welcome
>
> I may be able to do that, however, I need to learn it myself.
> I don't really mind reading code either, but a general idea about
> where the drawing of the menu entries is located would be helpful.
>
> I quick check shows that GRUB2 has 287 .c files, but I suspect that
> most of the menu customization is handled in the term/ directory.
>
Actually most is in normal/ and gfxmenu/. Some stuff is in term/gfxterm.c
> Are there and specifications, design documents, examples, or other
> places that I can look at to better understand GRUB2 menu customization?
>
Well I'm not aware of any

-- 
Regards
Vladimir 'φ-coder/phcoder' Serbinenko



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Re: Customization of GRUB2

[Vladimir 'φ-coder/phcoder' Serbinenko]

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Bruce Dubbs wrote:
> Vladimir 'φ-coder/phcoder' Serbinenko wrote:
>> Bruce Dubbs wrote:
>>> I am trying to provide documentation about GRUB2 (1.97.1)
>>> customization for the Linux From Scratch book.  I am having quite a
>>> bit of trouble finding anything describing how to set up a splash
>>> screen directly in grub.cfg.
>
>> Could you help us with documenting grub better? Patches against texinfo
>> manual are welcome
>
> I may be able to do that, however, I need to learn it myself.
> I don't really mind reading code either, but a general idea about
> where the drawing of the menu entries is located would be helpful.
>
> I quick check shows that GRUB2 has 287 .c files, but I suspect that
> most of the menu customization is handled in the term/ directory.
>
> Are there and specifications, design documents, examples, or other
> places that I can look at to better understand GRUB2 menu customization?
>
And of course you can ask question especially when writing texinfo
documentation for us. And also be sure not to use external articles
except ones written by grub authors without priorly saying so and
obtaining ok from maintainer

-- 
Regards
Vladimir 'φ-coder/phcoder' Serbinenko



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Re: Customization of GRUB2

[Bruce Dubbs]

Vladimir 'φ-coder/phcoder' Serbinenko wrote:
> Bruce Dubbs wrote:
>> Vladimir 'φ-coder/phcoder' Serbinenko wrote:

>>> Could you help us with documenting grub better? Patches against texinfo
>>> manual are welcome

>> I may be able to do that, however, I need to learn it myself.

>> Are there and specifications, design documents, examples, or other
>> places that I can look at to better understand GRUB2 menu customization?

> And of course you can ask question especially when writing texinfo
> documentation for us. 

OK.  I'll start the research process.

> And also be sure not to use external articles
> except ones written by grub authors without priorly saying so and
> obtaining ok from maintainer

Well I have already written:

http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/view/development/chapter06/grub.html
http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/view/development/chapter08/grub.html

but I'm not completely happy with it.

   -- Bruce

grub.info

[Bruce Dubbs]

Bruce Dubbs wrote:
> Vladimir 'φ-coder/phcoder' Serbinenko wrote:

>>>> Could you help us with documenting grub better? Patches against texinfo
>>>> manual are welcome
> 
>>> I may be able to do that, however, I need to learn it myself.

I took a look at grub.texi.  Although I haven't written any texi files 
before, I was able to figure out the format and run makeinfo without any 
errors.  That means that I only have to worry about small things like 
content.  :)

I have examined the hierarchy of the manual and it currently has the 
structure below.  I also did some research and propose a different 
layout, also shown below.

What I propose to do is to update the text file to the new layout, 
filling in what I can and adding placeholders for other areas.  Then, I 
will ask for contributions to fill in the holes.  I'll gladly do the 
formatting if I can get the content.

I freely admit that I don't yet have a good handle on many of the areas 
that need documentation and that I'll need to ask many questions.

If this is acceptable, please provide feedback to my proposed layout.
I have no problem with adding, deleting, renaming, or moving any of the 
sections.

   -- Bruce

-----------------

Current Layout:

* Introduction::
   * Overview::
   * History::
   * Features::
   * Role of a boot loader::

* Naming convention::
* Installation::
   * Installing GRUB using grub-install::
   * Making a GRUB bootable CD-ROM::

* Booting::
   * General boot methods::
     * Loading an operating system directly::
     * chain-loading::
   * OS-specific notes::

* Configuration::
* Network::
* Serial terminal::
* Preset Menu::
* Images::
* Filesystem::
   * Device syntax::
   * File name syntax::
   * Block list syntax::

* Interface::
   * Command-line interface::
   * Menu interface::
   * Menu entry editor::

* Commands::
   * Menu-specific commands::
     * menuentry

   * General commands::
     * serial::
     * terminfo::

   * Command-line and menu entry commands::
     * acpi::
     * blocklist::
     * boot::
     * cat::
     * chainloader::
     * cmp::
     * configfile::
     * crc::
     * date::
     * echo::
     * export::
     * halt::
     * help::
     * insmod::
     * keystatus::
     * ls::
     * reboot::
     * set::
     * unset::

* Troubleshooting::

* Invoking the grub shell::
* Invoking grub-install::
* Invoking grub-terminfo    <-- Does not appear to exist outside of cmdline
* Obtaining and Building GRUB::
* Reporting bugs::
* Future::
* Internals::
* Copying This Manual::
   * GNU Free Documentation License

* Index::

--------------

Proposed layout:

GNU GRUB manual

* Introduction
   * Overview
   * History
   * Features
   * Role of a boot loader

* Syntax
   * grub.cfg syntax

   * Naming conventions
     * Device syntax
     * File name syntax
     * Block list syntax

* Installation
   * Installing GRUB using grub-install
   * Installing GRUB manually
   * Making a GRUB bootable CD-ROM
   * Installing GRUB for network booting

* Booting
   * General boot methods
     * Loading an operating system directly
     * Chain Loading
   * OS-specific notes
     * SCO UnixWare   <-- Do we really need this
     * DOS/Windows

* Commuication with GRUB
   * File access
   * PS/2 Devices
   * USB I/O Devices
   * Serial I/O Devices

* GRUB Modules
    <Document Each Module>

* User Interface
   * Menu interface
   * Command-line interface
   * Menu entry editor

* Menu Customization
   * VT100 I/O
   * Security
   * Images

* Command Reference
   * grub-dumpbios
   * grub-editenv
   * grub-emu
   * grub-fstest
   * grub-mkconfig
   * grub-mkdevicemap
   * grub-mkelfimage
   * grub-mkfont
   * grub-mkimage
   * grub-mkrescue
   * grub-probe
   * grub-setup

* Configuration Reference
   * General Commands
     * blocklist
     * cmp
     * configfile
     * crc
     * date
     * drivemap
     * dump
     * false
     * handler
     * hello
     * help
     * hexdump
     * insmod
     * list_env
     * load_env
     * loopback
     * ls
     * lsfonts
     * lsmap
     * lsmod
     * module
     * parser.lua
     * parser.rescue
     * parser.sh
     * play
     * read_byte
     * read_dword
     * reader.normal
     * reader.rescue
     * rmmod
     * root
     * save_env
     * search
     * set
     * sleep
     * source
     * terminfo
     * test
     * true
     * vbeinfo
     * write_byte
     * write_dword
     * write_word

   * Menu Control Commands
     * background_image
     * gptsync
     * keystatus
     * loadfont
     * password
     * terminal_input
       * terminal_input.at_keyboard
       * terminal_input.console
       * terminal_input.serial
       * terminal_input.usb_keyboard

     * terminal_output
       * terminal_output.console
       * terminal_output.gfxterm
       * terminal_output.serial
       * terminal_output.vga
       * terminal_output.vga_text

   * Menu Item Commands
     * chainloader
     * freebsd_loadenv
     * freebsd_module
     * freebsd_module_elf
     * initrd
     * initrd16
     * linux
     * linux16
     * multiboot
     * netbsd
     * openbsd

   * Computer Control Commands
     * acpi
     * badram
     * boot
     * cpuid
     * halt
     * hdparm
     * lspci
     * parttool
     * probe
     * pxe
     * reboot
     * serial
     * usb
     * vbetest
     * videotest

   * EFI Commands
     * efiemu_loadcore
     * efiemu_pnvram
     * efiemu_prepare
     * efiemu_unload

   * Xnu_devdree
     * xnu_kernel
     * xnu_kext
     * xnu_kextdir
     * xnu_mkext
     * xnu_ramdisk
     * xnu_resume
     * xnu_splash
     * xnu_uuid

* Troubleshooting

* Obtaining and Building GRUB

* Reporting bugs

* Other
   * testload
   * Device map
   * root
   * find
   * terminal
   * uppermem

* Copying This Manual
   * GNU Free Documentation License

* Index
==================

Re: grub.info

[Seth Goldberg]

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   Looks good, IMHO.  I would also add a section on migration from Legacy GRUB 
to GRUB2 (including examples of converting a number of different menu.lst 
configurations to grub.cfg configurations).

  --S

Quoting Bruce Dubbs, who wrote the following on Wed, 2 Dec 2009:

> Bruce Dubbs wrote:
>> Vladimir 'φ-coder/phcoder' Serbinenko wrote:
>
>>>>> Could you help us with documenting grub better? Patches against texinfo
>>>>> manual are welcome
>> 
>>>> I may be able to do that, however, I need to learn it myself.
>
> I took a look at grub.texi.  Although I haven't written any texi files 
> before, I was able to figure out the format and run makeinfo without any 
> errors.  That means that I only have to worry about small things like 
> content.  :)
>
> I have examined the hierarchy of the manual and it currently has the 
> structure below.  I also did some research and propose a different layout, 
> also shown below.
>
> What I propose to do is to update the text file to the new layout, filling in 
> what I can and adding placeholders for other areas.  Then, I will ask for 
> contributions to fill in the holes.  I'll gladly do the formatting if I can 
> get the content.
>
> I freely admit that I don't yet have a good handle on many of the areas that 
> need documentation and that I'll need to ask many questions.
>
> If this is acceptable, please provide feedback to my proposed layout.
> I have no problem with adding, deleting, renaming, or moving any of the 
> sections.
>
>  -- Bruce
>
> -----------------
>
> Current Layout:
>
> * Introduction::
>  * Overview::
>  * History::
>  * Features::
>  * Role of a boot loader::
>
> * Naming convention::
> * Installation::
>  * Installing GRUB using grub-install::
>  * Making a GRUB bootable CD-ROM::
>
> * Booting::
>  * General boot methods::
>    * Loading an operating system directly::
>    * chain-loading::
>  * OS-specific notes::
>
> * Configuration::
> * Network::
> * Serial terminal::
> * Preset Menu::
> * Images::
> * Filesystem::
>  * Device syntax::
>  * File name syntax::
>  * Block list syntax::
>
> * Interface::
>  * Command-line interface::
>  * Menu interface::
>  * Menu entry editor::
>
> * Commands::
>  * Menu-specific commands::
>    * menuentry
>
>  * General commands::
>    * serial::
>    * terminfo::
>
>  * Command-line and menu entry commands::
>    * acpi::
>    * blocklist::
>    * boot::
>    * cat::
>    * chainloader::
>    * cmp::
>    * configfile::
>    * crc::
>    * date::
>    * echo::
>    * export::
>    * halt::
>    * help::
>    * insmod::
>    * keystatus::
>    * ls::
>    * reboot::
>    * set::
>    * unset::
>
> * Troubleshooting::
>
> * Invoking the grub shell::
> * Invoking grub-install::
> * Invoking grub-terminfo    <-- Does not appear to exist outside of cmdline
> * Obtaining and Building GRUB::
> * Reporting bugs::
> * Future::
> * Internals::
> * Copying This Manual::
>  * GNU Free Documentation License
>
> * Index::
>
> --------------
>
> Proposed layout:
>
> GNU GRUB manual
>
> * Introduction
>  * Overview
>  * History
>  * Features
>  * Role of a boot loader
>
> * Syntax
>  * grub.cfg syntax
>
>  * Naming conventions
>    * Device syntax
>    * File name syntax
>    * Block list syntax
>
> * Installation
>  * Installing GRUB using grub-install
>  * Installing GRUB manually
>  * Making a GRUB bootable CD-ROM
>  * Installing GRUB for network booting
>
> * Booting
>  * General boot methods
>    * Loading an operating system directly
>    * Chain Loading
>  * OS-specific notes
>    * SCO UnixWare   <-- Do we really need this
>    * DOS/Windows
>
> * Commuication with GRUB
>  * File access
>  * PS/2 Devices
>  * USB I/O Devices
>  * Serial I/O Devices
>
> * GRUB Modules
>   <Document Each Module>
>
> * User Interface
>  * Menu interface
>  * Command-line interface
>  * Menu entry editor
>
> * Menu Customization
>  * VT100 I/O
>  * Security
>  * Images
>
> * Command Reference
>  * grub-dumpbios
>  * grub-editenv
>  * grub-emu
>  * grub-fstest
>  * grub-mkconfig
>  * grub-mkdevicemap
>  * grub-mkelfimage
>  * grub-mkfont
>  * grub-mkimage
>  * grub-mkrescue
>  * grub-probe
>  * grub-setup
>
> * Configuration Reference
>  * General Commands
>    * blocklist
>    * cmp
>    * configfile
>    * crc
>    * date
>    * drivemap
>    * dump
>    * false
>    * handler
>    * hello
>    * help
>    * hexdump
>    * insmod
>    * list_env
>    * load_env
>    * loopback
>    * ls
>    * lsfonts
>    * lsmap
>    * lsmod
>    * module
>    * parser.lua
>    * parser.rescue
>    * parser.sh
>    * play
>    * read_byte
>    * read_dword
>    * reader.normal
>    * reader.rescue
>    * rmmod
>    * root
>    * save_env
>    * search
>    * set
>    * sleep
>    * source
>    * terminfo
>    * test
>    * true
>    * vbeinfo
>    * write_byte
>    * write_dword
>    * write_word
>
>  * Menu Control Commands
>    * background_image
>    * gptsync
>    * keystatus
>    * loadfont
>    * password
>    * terminal_input
>      * terminal_input.at_keyboard
>      * terminal_input.console
>      * terminal_input.serial
>      * terminal_input.usb_keyboard
>
>    * terminal_output
>      * terminal_output.console
>      * terminal_output.gfxterm
>      * terminal_output.serial
>      * terminal_output.vga
>      * terminal_output.vga_text
>
>  * Menu Item Commands
>    * chainloader
>    * freebsd_loadenv
>    * freebsd_module
>    * freebsd_module_elf
>    * initrd
>    * initrd16
>    * linux
>    * linux16
>    * multiboot
>    * netbsd
>    * openbsd
>
>  * Computer Control Commands
>    * acpi
>    * badram
>    * boot
>    * cpuid
>    * halt
>    * hdparm
>    * lspci
>    * parttool
>    * probe
>    * pxe
>    * reboot
>    * serial
>    * usb
>    * vbetest
>    * videotest
>
>  * EFI Commands
>    * efiemu_loadcore
>    * efiemu_pnvram
>    * efiemu_prepare
>    * efiemu_unload
>
>  * Xnu_devdree
>    * xnu_kernel
>    * xnu_kext
>    * xnu_kextdir
>    * xnu_mkext
>    * xnu_ramdisk
>    * xnu_resume
>    * xnu_splash
>    * xnu_uuid
>
> * Troubleshooting
>
> * Obtaining and Building GRUB
>
> * Reporting bugs
>
> * Other
>  * testload
>  * Device map
>  * root
>  * find
>  * terminal
>  * uppermem
>
> * Copying This Manual
>  * GNU Free Documentation License
>
> * Index
> ==================
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Grub-devel mailing list
> Grub-devel@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/grub-devel
>

Re: grub.info

[Vladimir 'φ-coder/phcoder' Serbinenko]

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> I took a look at grub.texi.  Although I haven't written any texi files
> before, I was able to figure out the format and run makeinfo without
> any errors.  That means that I only have to worry about small things
> like content.  :)
>
> I have examined the hierarchy of the manual and it currently has the
> structure below.  I also did some research and propose a different
> layout, also shown below.
Looks good but few comments follow.
>
> I freely admit that I don't yet have a good handle on many of the
> areas that need documentation and that I'll need to ask many questions.=

I'll gladly answer you. We can use IRC for faster information exchange.
>
> * Booting
>   * General boot methods
>     * Loading an operating system directly
>     * Chain Loading
>   * OS-specific notes
>     * SCO UnixWare   <-- Do we really need this
You can remove it alright if someone still needs it he's free to document=
 it
>     * DOS/Windows
>
> * Commuication with GRUB
>   * File access
>   * PS/2 Devices
>   * USB I/O Devices
>   * Serial I/O Devices
>
> * GRUB Modules
>    <Document Each Module>
>
It looks like a big overlap with other chapters (nearly everything is a
module). I don't see a need of this section.
> * User Interface
>   * Menu interface
>   * Command-line interface
>   * Menu entry editor
>
> * Menu Customization
>   * VT100 I/O
>   * Security
>   * Images
>
> * Command Reference
>   * grub-dumpbios
>   * grub-editenv
>   * grub-emu
>   * grub-fstest
>   * grub-mkconfig
>   * grub-mkdevicemap
>   * grub-mkelfimage
>   * grub-mkfont
>   * grub-mkimage
>   * grub-mkrescue
>   * grub-probe
>   * grub-setup
>
> * Configuration Reference
>   * General Commands
>     * blocklist
>     * cmp
>     * configfile
>     * crc
>     * date
>     * drivemap
>     * dump
>     * false
>     * handler
>     * hello
>     * help
>     * hexdump
>     * insmod
>     * list_env
>     * load_env
>     * loopback
>     * ls
>     * lsfonts
>     * lsmap
>     * lsmod
>     * module
>     * parser.lua
>     * parser.rescue
>     * parser.sh
>     * play
>     * read_byte
>     * read_dword
>     * reader.normal
>     * reader.rescue
>     * rmmod
>     * root
>     * save_env
>     * search
>     * set
>     * sleep
>     * source
>     * terminfo
>     * test
>     * true
>     * vbeinfo
>     * write_byte
>     * write_dword
>     * write_word
>
>   * Menu Control Commands
>     * background_image
>     * gptsync
>     * keystatus
>     * loadfont
>     * password
>     * terminal_input
>       * terminal_input.at_keyboard
>       * terminal_input.console
>       * terminal_input.serial
>       * terminal_input.usb_keyboard
>
>     * terminal_output
>       * terminal_output.console
>       * terminal_output.gfxterm
>       * terminal_output.serial
>       * terminal_output.vga
>       * terminal_output.vga_text
>
>   * Menu Item Commands
I think the better name would be something like "OS loaders". Perhaps
merge with "Boot methods"
>     * chainloader
>     * freebsd_loadenv
>     * freebsd_module
>     * freebsd_module_elf
>     * initrd
>     * initrd16
>     * linux
>     * linux16
>     * multiboot
>     * netbsd
>     * openbsd
It's better to order them by OS rather than alphabetically. E.g. "Linux
booting" would document both linux and initrd and mention legacy
linux16/initrd16 booting method.
>
>   * Computer Control Commands
>     * acpi
>     * badram
>     * boot
>     * cpuid
>     * halt
>     * hdparm
>     * lspci
>     * parttool
>     * probe
>     * pxe
>     * reboot
>     * serial
>     * usb
>     * vbetest
>     * videotest
>
>   * EFI Commands
>     * efiemu_loadcore
>     * efiemu_pnvram
>     * efiemu_prepare
>     * efiemu_unload
This aren't EFI commands but commands to manipulate efiemu
>
>   * Xnu_devdree
"Mac OS X/Darwin booting" would be a better name. This should be a
subsection of booting methods.
>     * xnu_kernel
>     * xnu_kext
>     * xnu_kextdir
>     * xnu_mkext
>     * xnu_ramdisk
>     * xnu_resume
>     * xnu_splash
>     * xnu_uuid

>
> * Troubleshooting
>
> * Obtaining and Building GRUB
>
> * Reporting bugs
>
> * Other
>   * testload
Removed in GRUB2
>   * find
Replaced by 'search'
>   * terminal
REplaced by terminal_input/terminal_output
>   * uppermem
Removed in GRUB2. Replaced by badram
>
> * Copying This Manual
>   * GNU Free Documentation License
>
> * Index
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Grub-devel mailing list
> Grub-devel@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/grub-devel
>


--=20
Regards
Vladimir '=CF=86-coder/phcoder' Serbinenko



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Re: Customization of GRUB2

[Robert Millan]

On Tue, Dec 01, 2009 at 11:04:56PM +0100, Vladimir 'φ-coder/phcoder' Serbinenko wrote:
> Bruce Dubbs wrote:
> > Vladimir 'φ-coder/phcoder' Serbinenko wrote:
> >> Bruce Dubbs wrote:
> >>> I am trying to provide documentation about GRUB2 (1.97.1)
> >>> customization for the Linux From Scratch book.  I am having quite a
> >>> bit of trouble finding anything describing how to set up a splash
> >>> screen directly in grub.cfg.
> >
> >> Could you help us with documenting grub better? Patches against texinfo
> >> manual are welcome
> >
> > I may be able to do that, however, I need to learn it myself.
> > I don't really mind reading code either, but a general idea about
> > where the drawing of the menu entries is located would be helpful.
> >
> > I quick check shows that GRUB2 has 287 .c files, but I suspect that
> > most of the menu customization is handled in the term/ directory.
> >
> Actually most is in normal/ and gfxmenu/. Some stuff is in term/gfxterm.c

And util/ (notably, util/grub.d) for the menu generation scripts.

-- 
Robert Millan

  The DRM opt-in fallacy: "Your data belongs to us. We will decide when (and
  how) you may access your data; but nobody's threatening your freedom: we
  still allow you to remove your data and not access it at all."

Re: Customization of GRUB2

[Robert Millan]

On Tue, Dec 01, 2009 at 01:49:07PM -0800, Seth Goldberg wrote:
> Hi,
>
>   I'm going to make an unpopular suggestion, so feel free to tell me to 
> take a hike, but I think Bruce's question highlights a very important 
> point-- the documentation that we have for GRUB2 at this point is very 
> poor.  In order to continue to get new users to use GRUB2, we need 
> quality documentation at least initially written by the people who 
> authored the code.  User documentation is at least as important as the 
> multitude of features that are pouring in, and I think we'll see a 
> dramatic uptake of GRUB2 as well as a more-satisfied userbase with 
> comprehensive documentation.  Feel free to flame me, but this is my 
> opinion.

Seth,

Feel free to speak your mind :-)

And I think it's a very nice idea and would be cool if everyone followed
it, but we can't make a rule out of this.  If it was mandatory for new code,
contributors might feel encumbered by it, and it could stall development.

Then again, whenever someone comes with code in one hand and docs in the
other, that effort has all my appreciation ;-)

-- 
Robert Millan

  The DRM opt-in fallacy: "Your data belongs to us. We will decide when (and
  how) you may access your data; but nobody's threatening your freedom: we
  still allow you to remove your data and not access it at all."

Re: Customization of GRUB2

[Seth Goldberg]

It should be noted that use of the generation scripts is optional and  
may not be used on some systems...

   --S

On Dec 4, 2009, at 1:25 PM, Robert Millan <rmh@aybabtu.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Dec 01, 2009 at 11:04:56PM +0100, Vladimir 'φ-coder/phcoder' 
>  Serbinenko wrote:
>> Bruce Dubbs wrote:
>>> Vladimir 'φ-coder/phcoder' Serbinenko wrote:
>>>> Bruce Dubbs wrote:
>>>>> I am trying to provide documentation about GRUB2 (1.97.1)
>>>>> customization for the Linux From Scratch book.  I am having  
>>>>> quite a
>>>>> bit of trouble finding anything describing how to set up a splash
>>>>> screen directly in grub.cfg.
>>>
>>>> Could you help us with documenting grub better? Patches against  
>>>> texinfo
>>>> manual are welcome
>>>
>>> I may be able to do that, however, I need to learn it myself.
>>> I don't really mind reading code either, but a general idea about
>>> where the drawing of the menu entries is located would be helpful.
>>>
>>> I quick check shows that GRUB2 has 287 .c files, but I suspect that
>>> most of the menu customization is handled in the term/ directory.
>>>
>> Actually most is in normal/ and gfxmenu/. Some stuff is in term/ 
>> gfxterm.c
>
> And util/ (notably, util/grub.d) for the menu generation scripts.
>
> -- 
> Robert Millan
>
>  The DRM opt-in fallacy: "Your data belongs to us. We will decide  
> when (and
>  how) you may access your data; but nobody's threatening your  
> freedom: we
>  still allow you to remove your data and not access it at all."
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Grub-devel mailing list
> Grub-devel@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/grub-devel

Re: grub.info

[Bruce O. Benson]

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2009/12/3 Vladimir 'φ-coder/phcoder' Serbinenko <phcoder@gmail.com>

> >
> > I have examined the hierarchy of the manual and it currently has the
> > structure below.  I also did some research and propose a different
> > layout, also shown below.
>

The current layout of the grub2 manual is actually here:

http://grub.enbug.org/Manual


Enjoy,
Bruce.
-- 
Bruce O. Benson, mailto:bbenson@gmail.com | http://www.tux.org
Donating spare CPU to science: Folding@home Team Debian (#2019)

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Re: grub.info

[Bruce Dubbs]

Bruce O. Benson wrote:

>>> I have examined the hierarchy of the manual and it currently has the
>>> structure below.  I also did some research and propose a different
>>> layout, also shown below.
> 
> The current layout of the grub2 manual is actually here:
> 
> http://grub.enbug.org/Manual

 From one Bruce to another:

The content of bzr trunk/docs has a file, grub.texi.  Line 6 says:

   @settitle GNU GRUB Manual @value{VERSION}

The wiki is indeed helpful, but not the official GRUB Manual.  Both 
'Manuals' are terribly incomplete.

   -- Bruce Dubbs

Re: grub.info

[Bruce O. Benson]

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2009/12/29 Bruce Dubbs <bruce.dubbs@gmail.com>

> Bruce O. Benson wrote:
>
>  I have examined the hierarchy of the manual and it currently has the
>>>> structure below.  I also did some research and propose a different
>>>> layout, also shown below.
>>>>
>>>
>> The current layout of the grub2 manual is actually here:
>>
>> http://grub.enbug.org/Manual
>>
>
> From one Bruce to another:
>
> The content of bzr trunk/docs has a file, grub.texi.  Line 6 says:
>
>  @settitle GNU GRUB Manual @value{VERSION}
>
> The wiki is indeed helpful, but not the official GRUB Manual.  Both
> 'Manuals' are terribly incomplete.
>
>

Yes Bruce, I certainly stand corrected.  My post probably sounded more
presumptuous than helpful.

If I:
- ...merged the contents of both existing documents into a new one...
- ...that adhered to the outline you enumerated...
- ...assigned copyright to FSF...
- ...rendered in texi, html, and pdf.

...Would that be useful for someone to check in to trunk/docs?  I don't
wanna get deep into a piece of work like that if it's not wanted.


Yours,
Bruce
-- 
Bruce O. Benson, mailto:bbenson@gmail.com | http://www.tux.org
Donating spare CPU to science: Folding@home Team Debian (#2019)

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Re: grub.info

[Bruce Dubbs]

Bruce O. Benson wrote:

> If I:
> - ...merged the contents of both existing documents into a new one...
> - ...that adhered to the outline you enumerated...
> - ...assigned copyright to FSF...
> - ...rendered in texi, html, and pdf.
> 
> ...Would that be useful for someone to check in to trunk/docs?  I don't
> wanna get deep into a piece of work like that if it's not wanted.

Well I volunteered to do the texi.  That's not my favorite format, but 
it's the Gnu standard.  If I was choosing formats, I'd do it in XML and 
generate text, html, and pdf from the same source.

Currently I've been studying code to try to get the appropriate 
background for the texi, but I do have a preliminary text file started, 
but it really is only an outline right now.  I don't have a schedule 
established. but was thinking I'd have sometihng for review in the next 
month or two.

   -- Bruce

Re: grub.info

[Bruce O. Benson]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1113 bytes --]

On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 10:37 AM, Bruce Dubbs <bruce.dubbs@gmail.com> wrote:

> Bruce O. Benson wrote:
>
>  If I:
>> - ...merged the contents of both existing documents into a new one...
>> - ...that adhered to the outline you enumerated...
>> - ...assigned copyright to FSF...
>> - ...rendered in texi, html, and pdf.
>>
>> ...Would that be useful for someone to check in to trunk/docs?  I don't
>> wanna get deep into a piece of work like that if it's not wanted.
>>
>
> Well I volunteered to do the texi.  That's not my favorite format, but it's
> the Gnu standard.  If I was choosing formats, I'd do it in XML and generate
> text, html, and pdf from the same source.
>
> Currently I've been studying code to try to get the appropriate background
> for the texi, but I do have a preliminary text file started, but it really
> is only an outline right now.  I don't have a schedule established. but was
> thinking I'd have sometihng for review in the next month or two.
>
>
Someone on the list can chime in if they want and are able to check my work
in to svn (in whole or part).  Then I can release copyright.

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Re: grub.info

[Felix Zielcke]

Am Dienstag, den 29.12.2009, 21:39 -0500 schrieb Bruce O. Benson:

> 
> Someone on the list can chime in if they want and are able to check my
> work in to svn (in whole or part).  Then I can release copyright.

It works the other way. You have to first assign copyright to FSF before
we can commit your things to Bazaar, if they're copyright relevant. (We
don't use anymore SVN now for a long time.)

-- 
Felix Zielcke
Proud Debian Maintainer and GNU GRUB developer

Re: grub.info

[Vladimir 'φ-coder/phcoder' Serbinenko]

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Bruce O. Benson wrote:
>
>
> 2009/12/29 Bruce Dubbs <bruce.dubbs@gmail.com
> <mailto:bruce.dubbs@gmail.com>>
>
>     Bruce O. Benson wrote:
>
>                 I have examined the hierarchy of the manual and it
>                 currently has the
>                 structure below.  I also did some research and propose
>                 a different
>                 layout, also shown below.
>
>
>         The current layout of the grub2 manual is actually here:
>
>         http://grub.enbug.org/Manual
>
>
>     >From one Bruce to another:
>
>     The content of bzr trunk/docs has a file, grub.texi.  Line 6 says:
>
>      @settitle GNU GRUB Manual @value{VERSION}
>
>     The wiki is indeed helpful, but not the official GRUB Manual.
>      Both 'Manuals' are terribly incomplete.
>      
>
>
> Yes Bruce, I certainly stand corrected.  My post probably sounded more
> presumptuous than helpful.
>
> If I:
> - ...merged the contents of both existing documents into a new one...
> - ...that adhered to the outline you enumerated...
> - ...assigned copyright to FSF...
> - ...rendered in texi, html, and pdf.
>
> ...Would that be useful for someone to check in to trunk/docs?  I
> don't wanna get deep into a piece of work like that if it's not wanted.
>
Be careful when merging with documents from wiki. Don't use content
written by someone else. Histors of http://grub.enbug.org/Manual lists
only 100 last revisions. It contains only you, Felix, chernomor
<http://grub.enbug.org/chernomor>, Karl Kashofer and Chris Kandle.
Assuming you sign copyright assignment then:
-chernomor's contribution is just wrong
-Karl's contribution is a link to another document
So these 2 should be just removed
Chris' edit is correct but copyright-insignificant so it should be kept
and needs no assignment
Unfortunately I was unable to check revision prior to r48
>
> Yours,
> Bruce
> -- 
> Bruce O. Benson, mailto:bbenson@gmail.com <mailto:bbenson@gmail.com> |
> http://www.tux.org
> Donating spare CPU to science: Folding@home Team Debian (#2019)
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Grub-devel mailing list
> Grub-devel@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/grub-devel
>   


-- 
Regards
Vladimir 'φ-coder/phcoder' Serbinenko



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Re: grub.info

[Bruce O. Benson]

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2009/12/30 Vladimir 'φ-coder/phcoder' Serbinenko <phcoder@gmail.com>

>
> Bruce O. Benson wrote:
> >
> > ...Would that be useful for someone to check in to trunk/docs?  I
> > don't wanna get deep into a piece of work like that if it's not wanted.
> >
> Be careful when merging with documents from wiki. Don't use content
> written by someone else. Histors of http://grub.enbug.org/Manual lists
> only 100 last revisions. It contains only you, Felix, chernomor
> <http://grub.enbug.org/chernomor>, Karl Kashofer and Chris Kandle.
> Assuming you sign copyright assignment then:
> -chernomor's contribution is just wrong
> -Karl's contribution is a link to another document
> So these 2 should be just removed
> Chris' edit is correct but copyright-insignificant so it should be kept
> and needs no assignment
> Unfortunately I was unable to check revision prior to r48
>

It would be unfortunate to lose the names.

OK I'm going to:
- insert statements of assignment for myself in the history log.
- insert a contributors section at the end.
- name the authors collectively as "GRUB Documentation Contributors"
- Insert an invariant version of the FDL, according to the FDL howto.
- insert a statement indicating contributions presume assignment of
copyright to FSF.  This is specifically due to to GRUB being an FSF
project.  Anybody else can change that.
- insert a statement encouraging contribution and addition of author names
to the contributions section so names are not lost.
- insert other relevant FSF doc recommendations
- supporting texinfo in wiki comment

If the brz repo guys want to use another manual, then perhaps the wiki page
could be moved to "QuickStart" or something fitting.

My Best,
Bruce

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Re: grub.info

[Bruce Dubbs]

Bruce O. Benson wrote:

> If the brz repo guys want to use another manual, then perhaps the wiki page
> could be moved to "QuickStart" or something fitting.

Ideally, the wiki 'Manual' page and the info document would track each 
other.  I don't know how copyright issues would be handled though.

   -- Bruce Dubbs

Re: grub.info

[Bruce O. Benson]

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2009/12/30 Bruce Dubbs <bruce.dubbs@gmail.com>

> Bruce O. Benson wrote:
>
>  If the brz repo guys want to use another manual, then perhaps the wiki
>> page
>> could be moved to "QuickStart" or something fitting.
>>
>
> Ideally, the wiki 'Manual' page and the info document would track each
> other.  I don't know how copyright issues would be handled though.
>
>
The promised actions are complete now.  The wiki manual page is called "GRUB
2 Manual", only to distinguish it and let it be a place to accumulate
contributions.  It's not intended to make that the official page.  It can
still be moved to another wiki page anytime if necessary.

All contributors can safely, legally add/merge/move stuff there if desired,
delete anything/everything I wrote, add attributions I could not find, etc.

Enjoy,
Bruce.

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Re: grub.info

[Vladimir 'φ-coder/phcoder' Serbinenko]

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Bruce O. Benson wrote:
>
> 2009/12/30 Bruce Dubbs <bruce.dubbs@gmail.com
> <mailto:bruce.dubbs@gmail.com>>
>
>     Bruce O. Benson wrote:
>
>         If the brz repo guys want to use another manual, then perhaps
>         the wiki page
>         could be moved to "QuickStart" or something fitting.
>
>
>     Ideally, the wiki 'Manual' page and the info document would track
>     each other.  I don't know how copyright issues would be handled
>     though.
>
>
> The promised actions are complete now.  The wiki manual page is called
> "GRUB 2 Manual", only to distinguish it and let it be a place to
> accumulate contributions.  It's not intended to make that the official
> page.  It can still be moved to another wiki page anytime if necessary.
>
> All contributors can safely, legally add/merge/move stuff there if
> desired, delete anything/everything I wrote, add attributions I could
> not find, etc.
>
It's not how it works. For the documentation to be accepted to GNU
project contributors have to sign legal papers.
Now I'm going to comment on value of manual:
"Installation via Package Management" is distribution-specific so it's
inappropriate for upstream manual
"Building / Installation from Source" is a part of INSTALL and we
already have this
"Utilities" - description of tools is inappropriate. User doesn't care
if it's ELF or text file but how to use them.
"Pre-Boot" - is wrong. MBR doesn't point anywhere it's executable code.
"grub-rescue" part is wrong too
"Lua shell" is part of grub-extras, not grub itself.
In whole the manual is vague, contains inappropriate or inexact information.
If we merge any part of this manual into bzr we would need to proofread
every patch
> Enjoy,
> Bruce.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Grub-devel mailing list
> Grub-devel@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/grub-devel
>   


-- 
Regards
Vladimir 'φ-coder/phcoder' Serbinenko



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Re: grub.info

[Vladimir 'φ-coder/phcoder' Serbinenko]

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Bruce Dubbs wrote:
> Bruce O. Benson wrote:
>
>> If I:
>> - ...merged the contents of both existing documents into a new one...
>> - ...that adhered to the outline you enumerated...
>> - ...assigned copyright to FSF...
>> - ...rendered in texi, html, and pdf.
>>
>> ...Would that be useful for someone to check in to trunk/docs?  I don't
>> wanna get deep into a piece of work like that if it's not wanted.
>
> Well I volunteered to do the texi.  That's not my favorite format, but
> it's the Gnu standard.  If I was choosing formats, I'd do it in XML
> and generate text, html, and pdf from the same source.
>
All formats here http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/multiboot/ are
generated from single texinfo source
> Currently I've been studying code to try to get the appropriate
> background for the texi, but I do have a preliminary text file
> started, but it really is only an outline right now.  I don't have a
> schedule established. but was thinking I'd have sometihng for review
> in the next month or two.
>
>   -- Bruce
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Grub-devel mailing list
> Grub-devel@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/grub-devel
>


-- 
Regards
Vladimir 'φ-coder/phcoder' Serbinenko



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Re: grub.info

[Vladimir 'φ-coder/phcoder' Serbinenko]

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Bruce Dubbs wrote:
> Bruce O. Benson wrote:
>
>> If the brz repo guys want to use another manual, then perhaps the
>> wiki page
>> could be moved to "QuickStart" or something fitting.
>
> Ideally, the wiki 'Manual' page and the info document would track each
> other.  I don't know how copyright issues would be handled though.
No need. Wiki can contain information inappropriate for mainstream
manual. And the need for online manual is addressed by generation of
html from texinfo source
>
>   -- Bruce Dubbs
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Grub-devel mailing list
> Grub-devel@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/grub-devel
>


-- 
Regards
Vladimir 'φ-coder/phcoder' Serbinenko



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Re: grub.info

[Bruce O. Benson]

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2009/12/31 Vladimir 'φ-coder/phcoder' Serbinenko <phcoder@gmail.com>

> Bruce O. Benson wrote:
> >
> > 2009/12/30 Bruce Dubbs <bruce.dubbs@gmail.com
> > <mailto:bruce.dubbs@gmail.com>>
> >
> >     Bruce O. Benson wrote:
> > All contributors can safely, legally add/merge/move stuff there if
> > desired, delete anything/everything I wrote, add attributions I could
> > not find, etc.
> >
> It's not how it works. For the documentation to be accepted to GNU
> project contributors have to sign legal papers.
> Now I'm going to comment on value of manual:
> "Installation via Package Management" is distribution-specific so it's
> inappropriate for upstream manual
> "Building / Installation from Source" is a part of INSTALL and we
> already have this
> "Utilities" - description of tools is inappropriate. User doesn't care
> if it's ELF or text file but how to use them.
> "Pre-Boot" - is wrong. MBR doesn't point anywhere it's executable code.
> "grub-rescue" part is wrong too
> "Lua shell" is part of grub-extras, not grub itself.
> In whole the manual is vague, contains inappropriate or inexact
> information.
> If we merge any part of this manual into bzr we would need to proofread
> every patch
>

This is the typical problem of contributing complaints vs. code.

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Re: grub.info

[richardvoigt]

2009/12/31 Bruce O. Benson <bbenson@gmail.com>:
>
> 2009/12/31 Vladimir 'φ-coder/phcoder' Serbinenko <phcoder@gmail.com>
>>
>> Bruce O. Benson wrote:
>> >
>> > 2009/12/30 Bruce Dubbs <bruce.dubbs@gmail.com
>> > <mailto:bruce.dubbs@gmail.com>>
>> >
>> >     Bruce O. Benson wrote:
>> > All contributors can safely, legally add/merge/move stuff there if
>> > desired, delete anything/everything I wrote, add attributions I could
>> > not find, etc.
>> >
>> It's not how it works. For the documentation to be accepted to GNU
>> project contributors have to sign legal papers.
>> Now I'm going to comment on value of manual:
>> "Installation via Package Management" is distribution-specific so it's
>> inappropriate for upstream manual
>> "Building / Installation from Source" is a part of INSTALL and we
>> already have this
>> "Utilities" - description of tools is inappropriate. User doesn't care
>> if it's ELF or text file but how to use them.
>> "Pre-Boot" - is wrong. MBR doesn't point anywhere it's executable code.
>> "grub-rescue" part is wrong too
>> "Lua shell" is part of grub-extras, not grub itself.
>> In whole the manual is vague, contains inappropriate or inexact
>> information.
>> If we merge any part of this manual into bzr we would need to proofread
>> every patch
>
> This is the typical problem of contributing complaints vs. code.

In Vladimir's defense, he contributes lots of code.

Thanks for trying to do the documentation which he hasn't.

All of the above information ought to be findable from the grub online
manual.  Things which aren't part of grub core, such as
distro-specific packaging, are probably well-served by a link to the
package documentation at that distro's site; a link is better than
pretending the greater ecosystem doesn't exist, while avoiding making
the grub project responsible to documenting scripts and package
managers beyond their control.

>
> _______________________________________________
> Grub-devel mailing list
> Grub-devel@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/grub-devel
>
>

Re: grub.info

[Robert Millan]

On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 01:04:47PM -0500, Bruce O. Benson wrote:
> 2009/12/31 Vladimir 'φ-coder/phcoder' Serbinenko <phcoder@gmail.com>
> 
> > Bruce O. Benson wrote:
> > >
> > > 2009/12/30 Bruce Dubbs <bruce.dubbs@gmail.com
> > > <mailto:bruce.dubbs@gmail.com>>
> > >
> > >     Bruce O. Benson wrote:
> > > All contributors can safely, legally add/merge/move stuff there if
> > > desired, delete anything/everything I wrote, add attributions I could
> > > not find, etc.
> > >
> > It's not how it works. For the documentation to be accepted to GNU
> > project contributors have to sign legal papers.
> > Now I'm going to comment on value of manual:
> > "Installation via Package Management" is distribution-specific so it's
> > inappropriate for upstream manual
> > "Building / Installation from Source" is a part of INSTALL and we
> > already have this
> > "Utilities" - description of tools is inappropriate. User doesn't care
> > if it's ELF or text file but how to use them.
> > "Pre-Boot" - is wrong. MBR doesn't point anywhere it's executable code.
> > "grub-rescue" part is wrong too
> > "Lua shell" is part of grub-extras, not grub itself.
> > In whole the manual is vague, contains inappropriate or inexact
> > information.
> > If we merge any part of this manual into bzr we would need to proofread
> > every patch
> >
> 
> This is the typical problem of contributing complaints vs. code.

Bruce, there's absolutely no problem with Vladimir helping with review of
code, documentation and proposals in general.  In fact, I find this very
helpful.

You too are welcome to provide your feedback and participate in the
discussions.  If you do this, I will appreciate that you stay on topic
and respectful to others.

Thank you

-- 
Robert Millan

  "Be the change you want to see in the world" -- Gandhi

Re: grub.info

[Bruce O. Benson]

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On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 7:18 AM, Robert Millan <rmh@aybabtu.com> wrote:

> > This is the typical problem of contributing complaints vs. code.
>
> Bruce, there's absolutely no problem with Vladimir helping with review of
> code, documentation and proposals in general.  In fact, I find this very
> helpful.
>
> You too are welcome to provide your feedback and participate in the
> discussions.  If you do this, I will appreciate that you stay on topic
> and respectful to others.
>
> Thank you
>
>
This comment suggests that I have not been on topic or respectful of
others.  Is that correct?

-- 
Bruce O. Benson, mailto:bbenson@gmail.com | http://www.tux.org
Donating spare CPU to science: Folding@home Team Debian (#2019)

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Re: grub.info

[Robert Millan]

On Sat, Jan 02, 2010 at 02:43:52AM -0500, Bruce O. Benson wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 7:18 AM, Robert Millan <rmh@aybabtu.com> wrote:
> 
> > > This is the typical problem of contributing complaints vs. code.
> >
> > Bruce, there's absolutely no problem with Vladimir helping with review of
> > code, documentation and proposals in general.  In fact, I find this very
> > helpful.
> >
> > You too are welcome to provide your feedback and participate in the
> > discussions.  If you do this, I will appreciate that you stay on topic
> > and respectful to others.
> >
> > Thank you
> >
> >
> This comment suggests that I have not been on topic or respectful of
> others.  Is that correct?

Hi Bruce,

I often find that when communicating with others, part of the message
content is in the receiver's side.  My words were carefully chosen; If
I wanted to say you're disrespectful, I'd have said so.

Sorry that I don't provide the answer you expected.  But on the upside,
this gives you the freedom to decide it yourself.

-- 
Robert Millan

  "Be the change you want to see in the world" -- Gandhi