[TSC] First Meeting

[TSC] First Meeting

[Graeme Gregory]

Hi, fellow TSC members and general OE community.

I think we should try and organise a general one hour chat of the
TSC on irc sometime the first week in January (4th - 8th). I think
we should probably hold this private discussion just to organise
ourselves then organise some form of public meeting later in the
month to let the OE community have their say.

Ultimately I think it might be a good plan to hold open meetings
once a month or so. Just so people feel they can contribute to
the decision making process.

What do people think?

Graeme

Re: [TSC] First Meeting

[Frans Meulenbroeks]

2009/12/22 Graeme Gregory <dp@xora.org.uk>:
> Hi, fellow TSC members and general OE community.
>
> I think we should try and organise a general one hour chat of the
> TSC on irc sometime the first week in January (4th - 8th). I think
> we should probably hold this private discussion just to organise
> ourselves then organise some form of public meeting later in the
> month to let the OE community have their say.
>
> Ultimately I think it might be a good plan to hold open meetings
> once a month or so. Just so people feel they can contribute to
> the decision making process.
>
> What do people think?
>
> Graeme

For the public meeting, may I suggest a F2F meeting @ fosdem (feb 6/7 iirc).

FM

Re: [TSC] First Meeting

[Graeme Gregory]

2009/12/22 Frans Meulenbroeks <fransmeulenbroeks@gmail.com>

> 2009/12/22 Graeme Gregory <dp@xora.org.uk>:
> > Hi, fellow TSC members and general OE community.
> >
> > I think we should try and organise a general one hour chat of the
> > TSC on irc sometime the first week in January (4th - 8th). I think
> > we should probably hold this private discussion just to organise
> > ourselves then organise some form of public meeting later in the
> > month to let the OE community have their say.
> >
> > Ultimately I think it might be a good plan to hold open meetings
> > once a month or so. Just so people feel they can contribute to
> > the decision making process.
> >
> > What do people think?
> >
> > Graeme
>
> For the public meeting, may I suggest a F2F meeting @ fosdem (feb 6/7
> iirc).
>
>  At least one TSC member will not be there.

Graeme

Re: [TSC] First Meeting

[Koen Kooi]

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On 22-12-09 17:13, Graeme Gregory wrote:
> 2009/12/22 Frans Meulenbroeks <fransmeulenbroeks@gmail.com>
> 
>> 2009/12/22 Graeme Gregory <dp@xora.org.uk>:
>>> Hi, fellow TSC members and general OE community.
>>>
>>> I think we should try and organise a general one hour chat of the
>>> TSC on irc sometime the first week in January (4th - 8th). I think
>>> we should probably hold this private discussion just to organise
>>> ourselves then organise some form of public meeting later in the
>>> month to let the OE community have their say.
>>>
>>> Ultimately I think it might be a good plan to hold open meetings
>>> once a month or so. Just so people feel they can contribute to
>>> the decision making process.
>>>
>>> What do people think?
>>>
>>> Graeme
>>
>> For the public meeting, may I suggest a F2F meeting @ fosdem (feb 6/7
>> iirc).
>>
>>  At least one TSC member will not be there.

Unless you're talking about me, 2 members will not be there.

regards,

Koen
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Re: [TSC] First Meeting

[Philip Balister]

On 12/22/2009 10:47 AM, Frans Meulenbroeks wrote:
> 2009/12/22 Graeme Gregory<dp@xora.org.uk>:
>> Hi, fellow TSC members and general OE community.
>>
>> I think we should try and organise a general one hour chat of the
>> TSC on irc sometime the first week in January (4th - 8th). I think
>> we should probably hold this private discussion just to organise
>> ourselves then organise some form of public meeting later in the
>> month to let the OE community have their say.
>>
>> Ultimately I think it might be a good plan to hold open meetings
>> once a month or so. Just so people feel they can contribute to
>> the decision making process.
>>
>> What do people think?
>>
>> Graeme
>
> For the public meeting, may I suggest a F2F meeting @ fosdem (feb 6/7 iirc).

FOSDEM is a difficult time for us to have official OE functions, the 
main focus there is promoting OE to the outside world.

There are plenty of chances for face to face talks with OE developers 
there though.

I'm still watching airfares, sadly the airlines seem to have dropped 
enough flights to keep prices up this year :(

Philip

Re: [TSC] First Meeting

[Richard Purdie]

Hi Graeme,

Thanks for the email.

On Tue, 2009-12-22 at 14:00 +0000, Graeme Gregory wrote:
> I think we should try and organise a general one hour chat of the
> TSC on irc sometime the first week in January (4th - 8th). I think
> we should probably hold this private discussion just to organise
> ourselves then organise some form of public meeting later in the
> month to let the OE community have their say.

Agreed, we should meet and the first week in January sounds good to me.
Looking at the timezones of the TSC members an afternoon or evening GMT
probably works best. How about I pick a time, say 8pm-9pm on Monday 5th
and then we can discuss who that doesn't work for :)

Our first discussion needs to cover creating some kind of procedures for
making decisions and publishing the results of those decisions. We
should create an agenda, does anyone want to propose anything else for
it?

> Ultimately I think it might be a good plan to hold open meetings
> once a month or so. Just so people feel they can contribute to
> the decision making process.
> 
> What do people think?

I agree, we should try and do something like "first Monday of the month
at time X-X+1" so people know what to expect. I'd suggest actual TSC
voting takes place over email but on a tight timescale (72 hours to
respond?) so anyone who can't make the actual discussions/meetings can
still vote. I also propose making the votes open and published so people
can see what members of the TSC are doing and everything is transparent.

Cheers,

Richard

Re: [TSC] First Meeting

[Richard Purdie]

On Wed, 2009-12-23 at 19:24 +0000, Richard Purdie wrote:
> Agreed, we should meet and the first week in January sounds good to me.
> Looking at the timezones of the TSC members an afternoon or evening GMT
> probably works best. How about I pick a time, say 8pm-9pm on Monday 5th
> and then we can discuss who that doesn't work for :)

Er, Monday is the 4th :)

Cheers,

Richard

Re: [TSC] First Meeting

[Graeme Gregory]

On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 19:24:18 +0000
Richard Purdie <rpurdie@rpsys.net> wrote:

> Hi Graeme,
> 
> Thanks for the email.
> 
> On Tue, 2009-12-22 at 14:00 +0000, Graeme Gregory wrote:
> > I think we should try and organise a general one hour chat of the
> > TSC on irc sometime the first week in January (4th - 8th). I think
> > we should probably hold this private discussion just to organise
> > ourselves then organise some form of public meeting later in the
> > month to let the OE community have their say.
> 
> Agreed, we should meet and the first week in January sounds good to
> me. Looking at the timezones of the TSC members an afternoon or
> evening GMT probably works best. How about I pick a time, say 8pm-9pm
> on Monday 5th and then we can discuss who that doesn't work for :)
> 
That works for me.

Graeme

Re: [TSC] First Meeting

[Koen Kooi]

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On 29-12-09 16:52, Graeme Gregory wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 19:24:18 +0000
> Richard Purdie <rpurdie@rpsys.net> wrote:
> 
>> Hi Graeme,
>>
>> Thanks for the email.
>>
>> On Tue, 2009-12-22 at 14:00 +0000, Graeme Gregory wrote:
>>> I think we should try and organise a general one hour chat of the
>>> TSC on irc sometime the first week in January (4th - 8th). I think
>>> we should probably hold this private discussion just to organise
>>> ourselves then organise some form of public meeting later in the
>>> month to let the OE community have their say.
>>
>> Agreed, we should meet and the first week in January sounds good to
>> me. Looking at the timezones of the TSC members an afternoon or
>> evening GMT probably works best. How about I pick a time, say 8pm-9pm
>> on Monday 5th and then we can discuss who that doesn't work for :)
>>
> That works for me.

Both the date and the medium don't work for me. I don't do IRC after
office hours anymore, since I'm only on IRC for work related things.

regards,

Koen
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Re: [TSC] First Meeting

[Richard Purdie]

On Tue, 2009-12-29 at 19:43 +0100, Koen Kooi wrote:
> On 29-12-09 16:52, Graeme Gregory wrote:
> > On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 19:24:18 +0000
> > Richard Purdie <rpurdie@rpsys.net> wrote:
> >> On Tue, 2009-12-22 at 14:00 +0000, Graeme Gregory wrote:
> >>> I think we should try and organise a general one hour chat of the
> >>> TSC on irc sometime the first week in January (4th - 8th). I think
> >>> we should probably hold this private discussion just to organise
> >>> ourselves then organise some form of public meeting later in the
> >>> month to let the OE community have their say.
> >>
> >> Agreed, we should meet and the first week in January sounds good to
> >> me. Looking at the timezones of the TSC members an afternoon or
> >> evening GMT probably works best. How about I pick a time, say 8pm-9pm
> >> on Monday 5th and then we can discuss who that doesn't work for :)
> >>
> > That works for me.
> 
> Both the date and the medium don't work for me. I don't do IRC after
> office hours anymore, since I'm only on IRC for work related things.

Could you make an IRC meeting if it was during work hours?

Is so, I suspect there may be others who might not be able to but we can
try.

If not, can you suggest an interactive medium that does work? Or are we
not planning to have any interactive meetings?

Cheers,

Richard

Re: [TSC] First Meeting

[Koen Kooi]

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On 29-12-09 21:30, Richard Purdie wrote:
> On Tue, 2009-12-29 at 19:43 +0100, Koen Kooi wrote:
>> On 29-12-09 16:52, Graeme Gregory wrote:
>>> On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 19:24:18 +0000
>>> Richard Purdie <rpurdie@rpsys.net> wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 2009-12-22 at 14:00 +0000, Graeme Gregory wrote:
>>>>> I think we should try and organise a general one hour chat of the
>>>>> TSC on irc sometime the first week in January (4th - 8th). I think
>>>>> we should probably hold this private discussion just to organise
>>>>> ourselves then organise some form of public meeting later in the
>>>>> month to let the OE community have their say.
>>>>
>>>> Agreed, we should meet and the first week in January sounds good to
>>>> me. Looking at the timezones of the TSC members an afternoon or
>>>> evening GMT probably works best. How about I pick a time, say 8pm-9pm
>>>> on Monday 5th and then we can discuss who that doesn't work for :)
>>>>
>>> That works for me.
>>
>> Both the date and the medium don't work for me. I don't do IRC after
>> office hours anymore, since I'm only on IRC for work related things.
> 
> Could you make an IRC meeting if it was during work hours?

That might work

> Is so, I suspect there may be others who might not be able to but we can
> try.
> 
> If not, can you suggest an interactive medium that does work? Or are we
> not planning to have any interactive meetings?

Jabber conference rooms?

regards,

Koen
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Re: [TSC] First Meeting

[Graeme Gregory]

> Jabber conference rooms?
> 
I can organize one of these on my jabber server I have tested that
functionality with koen before.

Graeme

Re: [TSC] First Meeting

[Frans Meulenbroeks]

Not sure if TSC is going to say things about technical issues, but if
so I would appreciate a statement of the TSC on whether classes should
define things that are really image or recipe specific.

As an example I would like to refer to the discussion in the thread
'Move IMAGE_BOOT stuff into distro's?" and the fact that the image
class drags in defaults for some system components.

However note that this is just an example. I would prefer a general statement.
Or is this outside the scope of TSC (and if so how do we resolve
technical issues without ending in a commit war (which is the last I
would see happen).

Frans.

Re: [TSC] First Meeting

[Phil Blundell]

On Thu, 2009-12-31 at 11:16 +0100, Frans Meulenbroeks wrote:
> Not sure if TSC is going to say things about technical issues,

I'd certainly hope that it will.  The main purpose of the TSC is to
provide technical leadership and make decisions about precisely this
kind of issue.

Based on the emails I've seen here, it sounds as though the TSC still
has a few internal procedural things to work through before they are in
a position to start making real decisions, but I am optimistic that they
will be up and running soon: perhaps as early as next week.

p.

Re: [TSC] First Meeting

[Richard Purdie]

On Wed, 2009-12-30 at 14:45 +0000, Graeme Gregory wrote:
> > Jabber conference rooms?
> > 
> I can organize one of these on my jabber server I have tested that
> functionality with koen before.

I'm ok with this, are there any objections?

Are we going to give public access to the discussions or post logs of
what was discussed somewhere? (or something else?).

We need to get something up and running sooner than later :/.

Cheers,

Richard

Re: [TSC] First Meeting

[Koen Kooi]

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On 04-01-10 11:46, Richard Purdie wrote:
> On Wed, 2009-12-30 at 14:45 +0000, Graeme Gregory wrote:
>>> Jabber conference rooms?
>>>
>> I can organize one of these on my jabber server I have tested that
>> functionality with koen before.
> 
> I'm ok with this, are there any objections?

None from me, but 2 of the TSC members have not contributed to this
discussion *at all*, which worries me.

regards,

Koen

> 
> Are we going to give public access to the discussions or post logs of
> what was discussed somewhere? (or something else?).
> 
> We need to get something up and running sooner than later :/.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Richard

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Re: [TSC] First Meeting

[Frans Meulenbroeks]

2010/1/4 Richard Purdie <rpurdie@rpsys.net>:
> On Wed, 2009-12-30 at 14:45 +0000, Graeme Gregory wrote:
>> > Jabber conference rooms?
>> >
>> I can organize one of these on my jabber server I have tested that
>> functionality with koen before.
>
> I'm ok with this, are there any objections?
>
> Are we going to give public access to the discussions or post logs of
> what was discussed somewhere? (or something else?).

Personally, not being a member of the TSC, I would appreciate that at
least the decisions (perhaps with a short rationale) are minuted and
made available to all devs.
Having access to the log or (readonly) access to the discussion would be nice.

FM
>
> We need to get something up and running sooner than later :/.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Richard
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openembedded-devel mailing list
> Openembedded-devel@lists.openembedded.org
> http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openembedded-devel
>

Re: [TSC] First Meeting

[Graeme Gregory]

On Mon, Jan 04, 2010 at 10:46:47AM +0000, Richard Purdie wrote:
> On Wed, 2009-12-30 at 14:45 +0000, Graeme Gregory wrote:
> > > Jabber conference rooms?
> > > 
> > I can organize one of these on my jabber server I have tested that
> > functionality with koen before.
> 
> I'm ok with this, are there any objections?
> 
> Are we going to give public access to the discussions or post logs of
> what was discussed somewhere? (or something else?).
> 
I would do the same as what we do for board meetings. A summary of
decisions.

For public meetings I guess just have a public jabber chat.

> We need to get something up and running sooner than later :/.
> 
Yes, but so far 2 out of 5 TSC members are not replying to email. If people
can tell me there jabber login I can create a TSC private room and invite
people to it.

This is especially urgent to do it this week if possible as from friday
morning I shall be not available for 1.5 weeks.

Graeme

Re: [TSC] First Meeting

[Michael 'Mickey' Lauer]

Hi folks,

I'm fine with jabber.

Cheers,

:M:

Re: [TSC] First Meeting

[Richard Purdie]

On Mon, 2010-01-04 at 12:24 +0100, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote:
> I'm fine with jabber.

Ok, when can we setup a regular meeting for?

I had proposed 8pm-9pm on Monday 4th (i.e. today) as our first meeting.
I have no idea if that will work you/Chris though :/.

Cheers,

Richard

Re: [TSC] First Meeting

[Richard Purdie]

On Mon, 2010-01-04 at 11:02 +0000, Graeme Gregory wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 04, 2010 at 10:46:47AM +0000, Richard Purdie wrote:
> > On Wed, 2009-12-30 at 14:45 +0000, Graeme Gregory wrote:
> > > > Jabber conference rooms?
> > > > 
> > > I can organize one of these on my jabber server I have tested that
> > > functionality with koen before.
> > 
> > I'm ok with this, are there any objections?
> > 
> > Are we going to give public access to the discussions or post logs of
> > what was discussed somewhere? (or something else?).
>
> I would do the same as what we do for board meetings. A summary of
> decisions.

Lets run with that for now and put this on the agenda for discussion.

> For public meetings I guess just have a public jabber chat.

Ok.

> > We need to get something up and running sooner than later :/.
> > 
> Yes, but so far 2 out of 5 TSC members are not replying to email. If people
> can tell me there jabber login I can create a TSC private room and invite
> people to it.
>
> This is especially urgent to do it this week if possible as from friday
> morning I shall be not available for 1.5 weeks.

Right, so we *need* to do something this week. I can't make Wednesday
evening, most other times work although I have occasional meetings
scheduled during the working day.

Cheers,

Richard

Re: [TSC] First Meeting

[Chris Larson]

My schedule is usually fairly open, other than the occasional meeting.
 Either IRC or Jabber are fine with me, and can do them from either work or
home (I doubt I'll get any complaints about doing it on work's time, given
we use bitbake in MVL6).  Today is mostly meeting free, but I do have some
training from around 9pm UTC to 11:30pm UTC.

On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 4:52 AM, Richard Purdie <rpurdie@rpsys.net> wrote:

> On Mon, 2010-01-04 at 11:02 +0000, Graeme Gregory wrote:
> > On Mon, Jan 04, 2010 at 10:46:47AM +0000, Richard Purdie wrote:
> > > On Wed, 2009-12-30 at 14:45 +0000, Graeme Gregory wrote:
> > > > > Jabber conference rooms?
> > > > >
> > > > I can organize one of these on my jabber server I have tested that
> > > > functionality with koen before.
> > >
> > > I'm ok with this, are there any objections?
> > >
> > > Are we going to give public access to the discussions or post logs of
> > > what was discussed somewhere? (or something else?).
> >
> > I would do the same as what we do for board meetings. A summary of
> > decisions.
>
> Lets run with that for now and put this on the agenda for discussion.
>
> > For public meetings I guess just have a public jabber chat.
>
> Ok.
>
> > > We need to get something up and running sooner than later :/.
> > >
> > Yes, but so far 2 out of 5 TSC members are not replying to email. If
> people
> > can tell me there jabber login I can create a TSC private room and invite
> > people to it.
> >
> > This is especially urgent to do it this week if possible as from friday
> > morning I shall be not available for 1.5 weeks.
>
> Right, so we *need* to do something this week. I can't make Wednesday
> evening, most other times work although I have occasional meetings
> scheduled during the working day.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Richard
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openembedded-devel mailing list
> Openembedded-devel@lists.openembedded.org
> http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openembedded-devel
>



-- 
Chris Larson
clarson at kergoth dot com
clarson at mvista dot com
Founder - BitBake, OpenEmbedded, OpenZaurus
Maintainer - Tslib
Software Engineer
MontaVista Software, Inc.

Re: [TSC] First Meeting

[Michael 'Mickey' Lauer]

Am Montag, den 04.01.2010, 11:02 +0000 schrieb Graeme Gregory:
> If people can tell me there jabber login I can create a TSC private room and invite
> people to it.

mickey@totalueberwachung.de

Apart from today and Friday, I'm pretty open towards a date.

Cheers,

:M:

Re: [TSC] First Meeting

[Denys Dmytriyenko]

On Mon, Jan 04, 2010 at 11:02:33AM +0000, Graeme Gregory wrote:
> For public meetings I guess just have a public jabber chat.

Or...

> Yes, but so far 2 out of 5 TSC members are not replying to email. If people
> can tell me there jabber login I can create a TSC private room and invite
> people to it.

So, will the first TSC meeting be public or private? Can mortal devs observe 
it or should we wait for the minutes?

-- 
Denys

Re: [TSC] First Meeting

[Phil Blundell]

On Mon, 2010-01-04 at 14:06 -0500, Denys Dmytriyenko wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 04, 2010 at 11:02:33AM +0000, Graeme Gregory wrote:
> > For public meetings I guess just have a public jabber chat.
> 
> Or...
> 
> > Yes, but so far 2 out of 5 TSC members are not replying to email. If people
> > can tell me there jabber login I can create a TSC private room and invite
> > people to it.
> 
> So, will the first TSC meeting be public or private? Can mortal devs observe 
> it or should we wait for the minutes?

If it's going to be a Jabber/IRC discussion then I guess the obvious
thing to do would be to post a transcript on the website after the
meeting.

p.

Re: [TSC] First Meeting

[Graeme Gregory]

On Mon, Jan 04, 2010 at 07:19:32PM +0100, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote:
> Am Montag, den 04.01.2010, 11:02 +0000 schrieb Graeme Gregory:
> > If people can tell me there jabber login I can create a TSC private room and invite
> > people to it.
> 
> mickey@totalueberwachung.de
> 
> Apart from today and Friday, I'm pretty open towards a date.
> 
Putting together everyones free times unless I misread it seems
the only day this can happen now is thursday.

Graeme

Re: [TSC] First Meeting

[Richard Purdie]

On Tue, 2010-01-05 at 11:11 +0000, Graeme Gregory wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 04, 2010 at 07:19:32PM +0100, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote:
> > Am Montag, den 04.01.2010, 11:02 +0000 schrieb Graeme Gregory:
> > > If people can tell me there jabber login I can create a TSC private room and invite
> > > people to it.
> > 
> > mickey@totalueberwachung.de
> > 
> > Apart from today and Friday, I'm pretty open towards a date.
> > 
> Putting together everyones free times unless I misread it seems
> the only day this can happen now is thursday.

Looks like it - assuming no objections, lets meet on Thursday evening
GMT, say 8pm.

Cheers,

Richard

Re: [TSC] First Meeting

[Chris Larson]

On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 7:43 AM, Richard Purdie <rpurdie@rpsys.net> wrote:

> On Tue, 2010-01-05 at 11:11 +0000, Graeme Gregory wrote:
> > On Mon, Jan 04, 2010 at 07:19:32PM +0100, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote:
> > > Am Montag, den 04.01.2010, 11:02 +0000 schrieb Graeme Gregory:
> > > > If people can tell me there jabber login I can create a TSC private
> room and invite
> > > > people to it.
> > >
> > > mickey@totalueberwachung.de
> > >
> > > Apart from today and Friday, I'm pretty open towards a date.
> > >
> > Putting together everyones free times unless I misread it seems
> > the only day this can happen now is thursday.
>
> Looks like it - assuming no objections, lets meet on Thursday evening
> GMT, say 8pm.
>

That'd work for me.
-- 
Chris Larson
clarson at kergoth dot com
clarson at mvista dot com
Founder - BitBake, OpenEmbedded, OpenZaurus
Maintainer - Tslib
Software Engineer
MontaVista Software, Inc.

Re: [TSC] First Meeting

[Frans Meulenbroeks]

May I suggest that the TSC thinks of a mechanism for developers to
bring topics to the TSC table (something somewhat more structured than
just mailing one of the TSC members or mailing it to the list in the
hope that someone will see it (although I would alread be happy if
mails with [TSC] in it are considered requests to put things on the
agenda of the TSC)). I mainly want to avoid that things are dropped.

Last few days I've seen two items mentioned on the list that could be
discussed by TSC
- QA issues
- image building flags ("the discussion whether udev should be default
if nothing is specified")

Frans

Re: [TSC] First Meeting

[Graeme Gregory]

Reminder, meeting tonight 8pm GMT.

Jabber conference is already setup.

tsc-meeting@conference.jabber.xora.org.uk

Graeme

Re: [TSC] First Meeting

[Rolf Leggewie]

Frans Meulenbroeks wrote:
> May I suggest that the TSC thinks of a mechanism for developers to
> bring topics to the TSC table (something somewhat more structured than
> just mailing one of the TSC members or mailing it to the list

How about the bug tracker?  I could add a specific category and cc TSC
members when tasks are added.

Re: [TSC] First Meeting

[Richard Purdie]

On Sun, 2010-01-10 at 16:57 +0100, Rolf Leggewie wrote:
> Frans Meulenbroeks wrote:
> > May I suggest that the TSC thinks of a mechanism for developers to
> > bring topics to the TSC table (something somewhat more structured than
> > just mailing one of the TSC members or mailing it to the list
> 
> How about the bug tracker?  I could add a specific category and cc TSC
> members when tasks are added.

The TSC has discussed this in its last meeting. There is a draft summary
waiting for approval from the TSC members which has some details of our
proposal for handling this.

Cheers,

Richard