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* Alignment trap - deprecation.pyo
@ 2010-03-13 20:21 ed
  2010-03-14 14:58 ` Holger Hans Peter Freyther
  2010-03-16 17:54 ` Josh Kropf
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 5+ messages in thread
From: ed @ 2010-03-13 20:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: openembedded-devel

I am trying to run a simple hello button python program using pygtk.

I have built a minimal-gpe-image for the mini2440.

But when I try and run the helloworld.py from the Pygtk tutorial.

=========================================================

#!/usr/bin/env python

# example helloworld.py

import pygtk
pygtk.require('2.0')
import gtk

class HelloWorld:

    # This is a callback function. The data arguments are ignored
    # in this example. More on callbacks below.
    def hello(self, widget, data=None):
        print "Hello World"

    def delete_event(self, widget, event, data=None):
        # If you return FALSE in the "delete_event" signal handler,
        # GTK will emit the "destroy" signal. Returning TRUE means
        # you don't want the window to be destroyed.
        # This is useful for popping up 'are you sure you want to quit?'
        # type dialogs.
        print "delete event occurred"

        # Change FALSE to TRUE and the main window will not be destroyed
        # with a "delete_event".
        return False

    def destroy(self, widget, data=None):
        print "destroy signal occurred"
        gtk.main_quit()

    def __init__(self):
        # create a new window
        self.window = gtk.Window(gtk.WINDOW_TOPLEVEL)
    
        # When the window is given the "delete_event" signal (this is
given
        # by the window manager, usually by the "close" option, or on
the
        # titlebar), we ask it to call the delete_event () function
        # as defined above. The data passed to the callback
        # function is NULL and is ignored in the callback function.
        self.window.connect("delete_event", self.delete_event)
    
        # Here we connect the "destroy" event to a signal handler.  
        # This event occurs when we call gtk_widget_destroy() on the
window,
        # or if we return FALSE in the "delete_event" callback.
        self.window.connect("destroy", self.destroy)
    
        # Sets the border width of the window.
        self.window.set_border_width(10)
    
        # Creates a new button with the label "Hello World".
        self.button = gtk.Button("Hello World")
    
        # When the button receives the "clicked" signal, it will call
the
        # function hello() passing it None as its argument.  The hello()
        # function is defined above.
        self.button.connect("clicked", self.hello, None)
    
        # This will cause the window to be destroyed by calling
        # gtk_widget_destroy(window) when "clicked".  Again, the destroy
        # signal could come from here, or the window manager.
        self.button.connect_object("clicked", gtk.Widget.destroy,
self.window)
    
        # This packs the button into the window (a GTK container).
        self.window.add(self.button)
    
        # The final step is to display this newly created widget.
        self.button.show()
    
        # and the window
        self.window.show()

    def main(self):
        # All PyGTK applications must have a gtk.main(). Control ends
here
        # and waits for an event to occur (like a key press or mouse
event).
        gtk.main()

# If the program is run directly or passed as an argument to the python
# interpreter then create a HelloWorld instance and show it
if __name__ == "__main__":
    hello = HelloWorld()
    hello.main()

==============================================================

I get the follow error when I run
#python -v pygtkHelloWorld.py

# /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/_lazyutils.pyo
matches /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/_lazyutils.py
import gtk._lazyutils # precompiled
from /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/_lazyutils.pyo
# /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/deprecation.pyo
matches /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/deprecation.py
import gtk.deprecation # precompiled
from /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/deprecation.pyo
Alignment trap: python (2412) PC=0x40bfa3c4 Instr=0x280069c0
Address=0xffffffff FSR 0x813
Segmentation fault


Does anyone have any ideas why it chokes at deprecation.pyo?????

Thanks
Ed





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread

* Re: Alignment trap - deprecation.pyo
  2010-03-13 20:21 Alignment trap - deprecation.pyo ed
@ 2010-03-14 14:58 ` Holger Hans Peter Freyther
  2010-03-14 21:51   ` ed
  2010-03-16 17:54 ` Josh Kropf
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread
From: Holger Hans Peter Freyther @ 2010-03-14 14:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: openembedded-devel


> # /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/_lazyutils.pyo
> matches /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/_lazyutils.py
> import gtk._lazyutils # precompiled
> from /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/_lazyutils.pyo
> # /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/deprecation.pyo
> matches /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/deprecation.py
> import gtk.deprecation # precompiled
> from /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/deprecation.pyo
> Alignment trap: python (2412) PC=0x40bfa3c4 Instr=0x280069c0
> Address=0xffffffff FSR 0x813
> Segmentation fault
> 
> 
> Does anyone have any ideas why it chokes at deprecation.pyo?????

No. but you could enable the generation of a coredump with ulimit and then use 
gdb to figure out where it was generating this alignment trap.




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread

* Re: Alignment trap - deprecation.pyo
  2010-03-14 14:58 ` Holger Hans Peter Freyther
@ 2010-03-14 21:51   ` ed
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread
From: ed @ 2010-03-14 21:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: openembedded-devel

On Sun, 2010-03-14 at 15:58 +0100, Holger Hans Peter Freyther wrote:
> > # /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/_lazyutils.pyo
> > matches /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/_lazyutils.py
> > import gtk._lazyutils # precompiled
> > from /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/_lazyutils.pyo
> > # /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/deprecation.pyo
> > matches /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/deprecation.py
> > import gtk.deprecation # precompiled
> > from /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/deprecation.pyo
> > Alignment trap: python (2412) PC=0x40bfa3c4 Instr=0x280069c0
> > Address=0xffffffff FSR 0x813
> > Segmentation fault
> > 
> > 
> > Does anyone have any ideas why it chokes at deprecation.pyo?????
> 
> No. but you could enable the generation of a coredump with ulimit and then use 
> gdb to figure out where it was generating this alignment trap.
> 
> 

Holger thanks for responding.  I know you and everyone else on the list 
are very busy and I appreciate if I get a response.  I try and find help
using google but that does not always pan out.

So taking your suggestion I am trying to use gdbsever but without much
success.    This is what I have done.

1. Built image to include gdbserver.
2. Downloaded to my PC python2.6-dbg
3. Downloaded GDB Macros and placed in home/ed/  as .gdbinit
4. On host in terminal window
     a. $gdb python
     b. (gdb) target remote 192.168.1.104:2345
     c. where 192.168.1.104 is IP address of target board(mini2440)
     d. Go to target machine and do step 5.
     e. eventually I get connection timed out.
     f.  I can ping the target machine from the host.
5. On target machine
     a. Verify that ulimit is set to unlimted
     b. #gdbserver 192.168.1.100:2345 python pygtkHelloWorld
     c. where 192.168.1.100 is the IP address of the host machine
     d. nothing comes back when I enter the above command.  I would have
thought from reading the wiki page
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gdbserver that I should see something after
entering the command.

I did an strace on # strace gdbserver 192.168.1.100:2345 python
and to see if it would work with just running python.  I get the
following trace.

root@mini2440:~# strace gdbserver 192.168.1.100:2345 python
execve("/usr/bin/gdbserver", ["gdbserver", "192.168.1.100:2345",
"python"], [/* 12 vars */]) = 0
brk(0)                                  = 0x21000
uname({sys="Linux", node="mini2440", ...}) = 0
access("/etc/ld.so.preload", R_OK)      = -1 ENOENT (No such file or
directory)
open("/var/run/ld.so.cache", O_RDONLY)  = -1 ENOENT (No such file or
directory)
open("/lib/tls/v4l/half/libthread_db.so.1", O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No
such file or directory)
stat64("/lib/tls/v4l/half", 0xbe8ae220) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or
directory)
open("/lib/tls/v4l/libthread_db.so.1", O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No such
file or directory)
stat64("/lib/tls/v4l", 0xbe8ae220)      = -1 ENOENT (No such file or
directory)
open("/lib/tls/half/libthread_db.so.1", O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No such
file or directory)
stat64("/lib/tls/half", 0xbe8ae220)     = -1 ENOENT (No such file or
directory)
open("/lib/tls/libthread_db.so.1", O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No such file
or directory)
stat64("/lib/tls", 0xbe8ae220)          = -1 ENOENT (No such file or
directory)
open("/lib/v4l/half/libthread_db.so.1", O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No such
file or directory)
stat64("/lib/v4l/half", 0xbe8ae220)     = -1 ENOENT (No such file or
directory)
open("/lib/v4l/libthread_db.so.1", O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No such file
or directory)
stat64("/lib/v4l", 0xbe8ae220)          = -1 ENOENT (No such file or
directory)
open("/lib/half/libthread_db.so.1", O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No such file
or directory)
stat64("/lib/half", 0xbe8ae220)         = -1 ENOENT (No such file or
directory)
open("/lib/libthread_db.so.1", O_RDONLY) = 3
read(3, "\177ELF\1\1\1\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\3\0(\0\1\0\0\0\0\17\0\000"...,
512) = 512
fstat64(3, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0755, st_size=26304, ...}) = 0
mmap2(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1,
0) = 0x4001c000
mmap2(NULL, 57676, PROT_READ|PROT_EXEC, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_DENYWRITE, 3, 0)
= 0x40025000
mprotect(0x4002b000, 28672, PROT_NONE)  = 0
mmap2(0x40032000, 8192, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED|
MAP_DENYWRITE, 3, 0x5) = 0x40032000
close(3)                                = 0
open("/lib/libc.so.6", O_RDONLY)        = 3
read(3, "\177ELF\1\1\1\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\3\0(\0\1\0\0\0\344K\1\000"...,
512) = 512
fstat64(3, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0755, st_size=1127916, ...}) = 0
mmap2(NULL, 1163712, PROT_READ|PROT_EXEC, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_DENYWRITE, 3,
0) = 0x40034000
mprotect(0x40143000, 32768, PROT_NONE)  = 0
mmap2(0x4014b000, 12288, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED|
MAP_DENYWRITE, 3, 0x10f) = 0x4014b000
mmap2(0x4014e000, 8640, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED|
MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x4014e000
close(3)                                = 0
mmap2(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1,
0) = 0x4001d000
syscall_983045(0x4001cd40, 0x4001cd40, 0x68c, 0x4001d418, 0x40024060,
0x40024000, 0, 0xf0005, 0x60, 0xffff5874, 0, 0xbe8aeae4, 0, 0xbe8ae7e0,
0x40002010, 0x40002028, 0x20000010, 0x4001cd40, 0xb719, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0,
0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0) = 0
mprotect(0x4014b000, 8192, PROT_READ)   = 0
mprotect(0x40032000, 4096, PROT_READ)   = 0
mprotect(0x40023000, 4096, PROT_READ)   = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGIO, {SIG_IGN}, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigprocmask(SIG_UNBLOCK, [IO], NULL, 8) = 0
brk(0)                                  = 0x21000
brk(0x42000)                            = 0x42000
clone(child_stack=0x22068, flags=CLONE_VM|SIGCHLD) = 2898
wait4(2898,  <unfinished ... exit status 0>
Process 2897 detached

==========================

Is there something I have not set up correctly or some step that is not
done correctly?  
Any help will be appreciated.
Thanks
Ed


  

> _______________________________________________
> Openembedded-devel mailing list
> Openembedded-devel@lists.openembedded.org
> http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openembedded-devel





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread

* Re: Alignment trap - deprecation.pyo
  2010-03-13 20:21 Alignment trap - deprecation.pyo ed
  2010-03-14 14:58 ` Holger Hans Peter Freyther
@ 2010-03-16 17:54 ` Josh Kropf
  2010-03-16 19:12   ` Ed Nelson
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread
From: Josh Kropf @ 2010-03-16 17:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: openembedded-devel

ed,

Are you able to use the python interactive shell on your mini2440? I had 
a similar problem in that python would fail to even start (resulting in 
an alignment trap).

For me simply removing /usr/lib/python2.6/lib-dynload/readline.so kept 
python from dying on startup.

On 03/13/2010 03:21 PM, ed wrote:
> I am trying to run a simple hello button python program using pygtk.
>
> I have built a minimal-gpe-image for the mini2440.
>
> But when I try and run the helloworld.py from the Pygtk tutorial.
>
> =========================================================
>
> #!/usr/bin/env python
>
> # example helloworld.py
>
> import pygtk
> pygtk.require('2.0')
> import gtk
>
> class HelloWorld:
>
>      # This is a callback function. The data arguments are ignored
>      # in this example. More on callbacks below.
>      def hello(self, widget, data=None):
>          print "Hello World"
>
>      def delete_event(self, widget, event, data=None):
>          # If you return FALSE in the "delete_event" signal handler,
>          # GTK will emit the "destroy" signal. Returning TRUE means
>          # you don't want the window to be destroyed.
>          # This is useful for popping up 'are you sure you want to quit?'
>          # type dialogs.
>          print "delete event occurred"
>
>          # Change FALSE to TRUE and the main window will not be destroyed
>          # with a "delete_event".
>          return False
>
>      def destroy(self, widget, data=None):
>          print "destroy signal occurred"
>          gtk.main_quit()
>
>      def __init__(self):
>          # create a new window
>          self.window = gtk.Window(gtk.WINDOW_TOPLEVEL)
>
>          # When the window is given the "delete_event" signal (this is
> given
>          # by the window manager, usually by the "close" option, or on
> the
>          # titlebar), we ask it to call the delete_event () function
>          # as defined above. The data passed to the callback
>          # function is NULL and is ignored in the callback function.
>          self.window.connect("delete_event", self.delete_event)
>
>          # Here we connect the "destroy" event to a signal handler.
>          # This event occurs when we call gtk_widget_destroy() on the
> window,
>          # or if we return FALSE in the "delete_event" callback.
>          self.window.connect("destroy", self.destroy)
>
>          # Sets the border width of the window.
>          self.window.set_border_width(10)
>
>          # Creates a new button with the label "Hello World".
>          self.button = gtk.Button("Hello World")
>
>          # When the button receives the "clicked" signal, it will call
> the
>          # function hello() passing it None as its argument.  The hello()
>          # function is defined above.
>          self.button.connect("clicked", self.hello, None)
>
>          # This will cause the window to be destroyed by calling
>          # gtk_widget_destroy(window) when "clicked".  Again, the destroy
>          # signal could come from here, or the window manager.
>          self.button.connect_object("clicked", gtk.Widget.destroy,
> self.window)
>
>          # This packs the button into the window (a GTK container).
>          self.window.add(self.button)
>
>          # The final step is to display this newly created widget.
>          self.button.show()
>
>          # and the window
>          self.window.show()
>
>      def main(self):
>          # All PyGTK applications must have a gtk.main(). Control ends
> here
>          # and waits for an event to occur (like a key press or mouse
> event).
>          gtk.main()
>
> # If the program is run directly or passed as an argument to the python
> # interpreter then create a HelloWorld instance and show it
> if __name__ == "__main__":
>      hello = HelloWorld()
>      hello.main()
>
> ==============================================================
>
> I get the follow error when I run
> #python -v pygtkHelloWorld.py
>
> # /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/_lazyutils.pyo
> matches /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/_lazyutils.py
> import gtk._lazyutils # precompiled
> from /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/_lazyutils.pyo
> # /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/deprecation.pyo
> matches /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/deprecation.py
> import gtk.deprecation # precompiled
> from /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/deprecation.pyo
> Alignment trap: python (2412) PC=0x40bfa3c4 Instr=0x280069c0
> Address=0xffffffff FSR 0x813
> Segmentation fault
>
>
> Does anyone have any ideas why it chokes at deprecation.pyo?????
>
> Thanks
> Ed
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openembedded-devel mailing list
> Openembedded-devel@lists.openembedded.org
> http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openembedded-devel
>    



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread

* Re: Alignment trap - deprecation.pyo
  2010-03-16 17:54 ` Josh Kropf
@ 2010-03-16 19:12   ` Ed Nelson
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread
From: Ed Nelson @ 2010-03-16 19:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: openembedded-devel

Josh Kropf wrote:
> ed,
>
> Are you able to use the python interactive shell on your mini2440? I 
> had a similar problem in that python would fail to even start 
> (resulting in an alignment trap).
>
> For me simply removing /usr/lib/python2.6/lib-dynload/readline.so kept 
> python from dying on startup.
>
> On 03/13/2010 03:21 PM, ed wrote:
>> I am trying to run a simple hello button python program using pygtk.
>>
>> I have built a minimal-gpe-image for the mini2440.
>>
>> But when I try and run the helloworld.py from the Pygtk tutorial.
>>
>> =========================================================
>>
>> #!/usr/bin/env python
>>
>> # example helloworld.py
>>
>> import pygtk
>> pygtk.require('2.0')
>> import gtk
>>
>> class HelloWorld:
>>
>>      # This is a callback function. The data arguments are ignored
>>      # in this example. More on callbacks below.
>>      def hello(self, widget, data=None):
>>          print "Hello World"
>>
>>      def delete_event(self, widget, event, data=None):
>>          # If you return FALSE in the "delete_event" signal handler,
>>          # GTK will emit the "destroy" signal. Returning TRUE means
>>          # you don't want the window to be destroyed.
>>          # This is useful for popping up 'are you sure you want to 
>> quit?'
>>          # type dialogs.
>>          print "delete event occurred"
>>
>>          # Change FALSE to TRUE and the main window will not be 
>> destroyed
>>          # with a "delete_event".
>>          return False
>>
>>      def destroy(self, widget, data=None):
>>          print "destroy signal occurred"
>>          gtk.main_quit()
>>
>>      def __init__(self):
>>          # create a new window
>>          self.window = gtk.Window(gtk.WINDOW_TOPLEVEL)
>>
>>          # When the window is given the "delete_event" signal (this is
>> given
>>          # by the window manager, usually by the "close" option, or on
>> the
>>          # titlebar), we ask it to call the delete_event () function
>>          # as defined above. The data passed to the callback
>>          # function is NULL and is ignored in the callback function.
>>          self.window.connect("delete_event", self.delete_event)
>>
>>          # Here we connect the "destroy" event to a signal handler.
>>          # This event occurs when we call gtk_widget_destroy() on the
>> window,
>>          # or if we return FALSE in the "delete_event" callback.
>>          self.window.connect("destroy", self.destroy)
>>
>>          # Sets the border width of the window.
>>          self.window.set_border_width(10)
>>
>>          # Creates a new button with the label "Hello World".
>>          self.button = gtk.Button("Hello World")
>>
>>          # When the button receives the "clicked" signal, it will call
>> the
>>          # function hello() passing it None as its argument.  The 
>> hello()
>>          # function is defined above.
>>          self.button.connect("clicked", self.hello, None)
>>
>>          # This will cause the window to be destroyed by calling
>>          # gtk_widget_destroy(window) when "clicked".  Again, the 
>> destroy
>>          # signal could come from here, or the window manager.
>>          self.button.connect_object("clicked", gtk.Widget.destroy,
>> self.window)
>>
>>          # This packs the button into the window (a GTK container).
>>          self.window.add(self.button)
>>
>>          # The final step is to display this newly created widget.
>>          self.button.show()
>>
>>          # and the window
>>          self.window.show()
>>
>>      def main(self):
>>          # All PyGTK applications must have a gtk.main(). Control ends
>> here
>>          # and waits for an event to occur (like a key press or mouse
>> event).
>>          gtk.main()
>>
>> # If the program is run directly or passed as an argument to the python
>> # interpreter then create a HelloWorld instance and show it
>> if __name__ == "__main__":
>>      hello = HelloWorld()
>>      hello.main()
>>
>> ==============================================================
>>
>> I get the follow error when I run
>> #python -v pygtkHelloWorld.py
>>
>> # /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/_lazyutils.pyo
>> matches /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/_lazyutils.py
>> import gtk._lazyutils # precompiled
>> from /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/_lazyutils.pyo
>> # /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/deprecation.pyo
>> matches /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/deprecation.py
>> import gtk.deprecation # precompiled
>> from /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/deprecation.pyo
>> Alignment trap: python (2412) PC=0x40bfa3c4 Instr=0x280069c0
>> Address=0xffffffff FSR 0x813
>> Segmentation fault
>>
>>
>> Does anyone have any ideas why it chokes at deprecation.pyo?????
>>
>> Thanks
>> Ed
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Openembedded-devel mailing list
>> Openembedded-devel@lists.openembedded.org
>> http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openembedded-devel
>>    
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openembedded-devel mailing list
> Openembedded-devel@lists.openembedded.org
> http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openembedded-devel
>


I can run python programs but can't run pygtk programs. 
When I use the python interactive shell I get the Alignment trap then 
Segment fault when I try and import gtk which is what the 
deprecation.pyo is doing.

 >>>import gtk

Alignment trap
Segment fault.



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread

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2010-03-13 20:21 Alignment trap - deprecation.pyo ed
2010-03-14 14:58 ` Holger Hans Peter Freyther
2010-03-14 21:51   ` ed
2010-03-16 17:54 ` Josh Kropf
2010-03-16 19:12   ` Ed Nelson

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