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From: Avi Kivity <avi@redhat.com>
To: Rusty Russell <rusty@rustcorp.com.au>
Cc: qemu-devel@nongnu.org, virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, kvm@vger.kernel.org,
	"Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@redhat.com>
Subject: Re: [Qemu-devel] [PATCH RFC] virtio: put last seen used index into ring itself
Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 11:06:42 +0300	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <4BF39C12.7090407@redhat.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <201005191709.16401.rusty@rustcorp.com.au>

On 05/19/2010 10:39 AM, Rusty Russell wrote:
>
> I think we're talking about the last 2 entries of the avail ring.  That means
> the worst case is 1 false bounce every time around the ring.

It's low, but why introduce an inefficiency when you can avoid doing it 
for the same effort?

> I think that's
> why we're debating it instead of measuring it :)
>    

Measure before optimize is good for code but not for protocols.  
Protocols have to be robust against future changes.  Virtio is warty 
enough already, we can't keep doing local optimizations.

> Note that this is a exclusive->shared->exclusive bounce only, too.
>    

A bounce is a bounce.

Virtio is already way too bouncy due to the indirection between the 
avail/used rings and the descriptor pool.  A device with out of order 
completion (like virtio-blk) will quickly randomize the unused 
descriptor indexes, so every descriptor fetch will require a bounce.

In contrast, if the rings hold the descriptors themselves instead of 
pointers, we bounce (sizeof(descriptor)/cache_line_size) cache lines for 
every descriptor, amortized.

-- 
Do not meddle in the internals of kernels, for they are subtle and quick to panic.

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Avi Kivity <avi@redhat.com>
To: Rusty Russell <rusty@rustcorp.com.au>
Cc: "Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@redhat.com>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org, kvm@vger.kernel.org,
	qemu-devel@nongnu.org
Subject: Re: [Qemu-devel] [PATCH RFC] virtio: put last seen used index into ring itself
Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 11:06:42 +0300	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <4BF39C12.7090407@redhat.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <201005191709.16401.rusty@rustcorp.com.au>

On 05/19/2010 10:39 AM, Rusty Russell wrote:
>
> I think we're talking about the last 2 entries of the avail ring.  That means
> the worst case is 1 false bounce every time around the ring.

It's low, but why introduce an inefficiency when you can avoid doing it 
for the same effort?

> I think that's
> why we're debating it instead of measuring it :)
>    

Measure before optimize is good for code but not for protocols.  
Protocols have to be robust against future changes.  Virtio is warty 
enough already, we can't keep doing local optimizations.

> Note that this is a exclusive->shared->exclusive bounce only, too.
>    

A bounce is a bounce.

Virtio is already way too bouncy due to the indirection between the 
avail/used rings and the descriptor pool.  A device with out of order 
completion (like virtio-blk) will quickly randomize the unused 
descriptor indexes, so every descriptor fetch will require a bounce.

In contrast, if the rings hold the descriptors themselves instead of 
pointers, we bounce (sizeof(descriptor)/cache_line_size) cache lines for 
every descriptor, amortized.

-- 
Do not meddle in the internals of kernels, for they are subtle and quick to panic.


  reply	other threads:[~2010-05-19  8:06 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 95+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2010-05-05 20:58 [PATCH RFC] virtio: put last seen used index into ring itself Michael S. Tsirkin
2010-05-05 20:58 ` [Qemu-devel] " Michael S. Tsirkin
2010-05-05 21:18 ` Dor Laor
2010-05-05 21:18 ` Dor Laor
2010-05-05 21:18   ` [Qemu-devel] " Dor Laor
2010-05-06  2:31 ` Rusty Russell
2010-05-06  2:31 ` Rusty Russell
2010-05-06  2:31   ` [Qemu-devel] " Rusty Russell
2010-05-06  6:19   ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2010-05-06  6:19   ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2010-05-06  6:19     ` [Qemu-devel] " Michael S. Tsirkin
2010-05-07  3:33     ` Rusty Russell
2010-05-07  3:33       ` [Qemu-devel] " Rusty Russell
2010-05-07  3:33       ` Rusty Russell
2010-05-09 21:06       ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2010-05-09 21:06         ` [Qemu-devel] " Michael S. Tsirkin
2010-05-09 21:06       ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2010-05-06 10:00 ` [Qemu-devel] " Avi Kivity
2010-05-06 10:00   ` Avi Kivity
2010-05-07  3:23   ` Rusty Russell
2010-05-07  3:23   ` Rusty Russell
2010-05-07  3:23     ` Rusty Russell
2010-05-07  3:23     ` Rusty Russell
2010-05-11 19:27     ` Avi Kivity
2010-05-11 19:27     ` Avi Kivity
2010-05-11 19:27       ` Avi Kivity
2010-05-11 19:52       ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2010-05-11 19:52         ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2010-05-11 19:52         ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2010-05-19  7:39       ` Rusty Russell
2010-05-19  7:39       ` Rusty Russell
2010-05-19  7:39         ` Rusty Russell
2010-05-19  8:06         ` Avi Kivity [this message]
2010-05-19  8:06           ` Avi Kivity
2010-05-19 22:33           ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2010-05-19 22:33             ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2010-05-20  6:04             ` Avi Kivity
2010-05-20  6:04             ` Avi Kivity
2010-05-20  6:04               ` Avi Kivity
2010-05-19 22:33           ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2010-05-20  5:01           ` Rusty Russell
2010-05-20  5:01             ` Rusty Russell
2010-05-20  5:08             ` Rusty Russell
2010-05-20  5:08               ` Rusty Russell
2010-05-23 15:31               ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2010-05-23 15:31               ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2010-05-23 15:31                 ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2010-05-23 15:41                 ` Avi Kivity
2010-05-23 15:41                   ` Avi Kivity
2010-05-23 15:51                   ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2010-05-23 15:51                   ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2010-05-23 15:51                     ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2010-05-23 16:03                     ` Avi Kivity
2010-05-23 16:03                       ` Avi Kivity
2010-05-23 16:30                       ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2010-05-23 16:30                       ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2010-05-23 16:30                         ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2010-05-24  6:37                         ` Avi Kivity
2010-05-24  6:37                           ` Avi Kivity
2010-05-24  8:05                           ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2010-05-24  8:05                             ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2010-05-24 11:00                             ` Avi Kivity
2010-05-24 11:00                             ` Avi Kivity
2010-05-24 11:00                               ` Avi Kivity
2010-05-24  8:05                           ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2010-05-24  6:37                         ` Avi Kivity
2010-05-23 17:28                       ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2010-05-23 17:28                         ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2010-05-23 17:28                       ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2010-05-23 16:03                     ` Avi Kivity
2010-05-23 15:41                 ` Avi Kivity
2010-05-23 15:56               ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2010-05-23 15:56               ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2010-05-23 15:56                 ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2010-05-20  5:08             ` Rusty Russell
2010-05-20  7:00             ` Avi Kivity
2010-05-20  7:00               ` Avi Kivity
2010-05-20 14:34               ` Rusty Russell
2010-05-20 14:34               ` Rusty Russell
2010-05-20 14:34                 ` Rusty Russell
2010-05-20 15:46                 ` Avi Kivity
2010-05-20 15:46                 ` Avi Kivity
2010-05-20 15:46                   ` Avi Kivity
2010-05-20  7:00             ` Avi Kivity
2010-05-20 10:04             ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2010-05-20 10:04               ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2010-05-20 10:04             ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2010-05-20  5:01           ` Rusty Russell
2010-05-06 10:00 ` Avi Kivity
2010-05-11 18:46 ` Ryan Harper
2010-05-11 18:46   ` [Qemu-devel] " Ryan Harper
2010-05-11 19:48   ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2010-05-11 19:48     ` [Qemu-devel] " Michael S. Tsirkin
2010-05-11 19:48   ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2010-05-11 18:46 ` Ryan Harper

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