[uml-devel] user-mode-linux-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, Jeff Dike <jdike@addtoit.com>

[uml-devel] user-mode-linux-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, Jeff Dike <jdike@addtoit.com>

[Renzo Davoli]

Dear User-Mode Linux developers,

FOSDEM accepted my proposal for a devroom about
"new challenges in virtualization".

I think this devroom can be also a meeting point for 
user-mode-linux developers to discuss the future 
of the project.
I have added an item to the topic list:
* user-mode-linux: dead or alive?

I think it is alive and healthy and it can benefit from
new virtualization supports in the kernel, optimized
ptrace tags and utrace-based modules.
I am sure you have many other ideas.

I invite you to propose talks and join the devroom.
FOSDEM will be held in Brussels on February 5-6 2011.

The wiki for the devroom is here:
http://nciv2011.v2.cs.unibo.it

	renzo

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Re: [uml-devel] user-mode-linux-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, Jeff Dike <jdike@addtoit.com>

[Geert Uytterhoeven]

On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 12:41, Renzo Davoli <renzo@cs.unibo.it> wrote:
> Dear User-Mode Linux developers,
>
> FOSDEM accepted my proposal for a devroom about
> "new challenges in virtualization".
>
> I think this devroom can be also a meeting point for
> user-mode-linux developers to discuss the future
> of the project.
> I have added an item to the topic list:
> * user-mode-linux: dead or alive?
>
> I think it is alive and healthy and it can benefit from
> new virtualization supports in the kernel, optimized
> ptrace tags and utrace-based modules.
> I am sure you have many other ideas.

Personally, I like UML because
  - It's easy to get it running,
  - I can run it without needing root access, so I can run it on any
Linux machine I have an account on[*],
  - I can use it to do things that are limited to root-only, e.g.
      * create device nodes on file system images,
      * run wireshark to analyze network communication.
  - I even use it to debug/develop code for the Amiga Zorro bus, by
adding a fake bus with fake devices ;-)

[*] That's the major annoyance of coLinux: you need to be administrator.

Gr{oetje,eeting}s,

                        Geert

--
Geert Uytterhoeven -- There's lots of Linux beyond ia32 -- geert@linux-m68k.org

In personal conversations with technical people, I call myself a hacker. But
when I'm talking to journalists I just say "programmer" or something like that.
                                -- Linus Torvalds

Re: [uml-devel] user-mode-linux-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, Jeff Dike <jdike@addtoit.com>

[Stanislav Meduna]

On 21.11.2010 10:35, Geert Uytterhoeven wrote:

>> * user-mode-linux: dead or alive?

>>From a plain user's view: basically dead

Why? See e.g. http://user-mode-linux.sourceforge.net/downloads.html
SKAS3 is against 2.6.23 and unmaintained (my problem with
skas3 corrupting floating point registers did not get fixed
two years ago, although I tracked it to the skas3 and
provided a complete example to reproduce it).

SKAS4 is against 2.6.24 and marked as experimental.

So what should a new user searching for a virtualization
soultion take from it? Maybe there is an active development
running, but I don't see it, alhough I am following the
uml-devel.

Having an unmaintained old and experimental new version
is a sure way to hell for any software product, free
or non-free...

> Personally, I like UML because
>   - It's easy to get it running,
>   - I can run it without needing root access, so I can run it on any
> Linux machine I have an account on[*],
>   - I can use it to do things that are limited to root-only, e.g.
>       * create device nodes on file system images,
>       * run wireshark to analyze network communication.
>   - I even use it to debug/develop code for the Amiga Zorro bus, by
> adding a fake bus with fake devices ;-)

As a help tool to run at the workstation, yes, by any means
As a serious tool to virtualize services: no

Regards
-- 
                                  Stano

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Spend less time writing and  rewriting code and more time creating great
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Re: [uml-devel] "New Challenges in Virtualization" devroom @ FOSDEM 2011

[Renzo Davoli]

Pros=+ Cons=- Pros(umview/kmview can be used instead)=++
Richard:
- IMHO it's dead as virtualization technology.
+ But it's still used as playground for kernel developers.
+ You can easily implement and test new kernel features.

Geert:
+ It's easy to get it running
++ I can run it without needing root access, so I can run it on any
Linux machine I have an account on
++ I can use it to do things that are limited to root-only
+ I even use it to debug/develop code for the Amiga Zorro bus

Stanislav:
- From a plain user's view: basically dead:
- SKAS3 is against 2.6.23 and unmaintained
- SKAS4 is against 2.6.24 and marked as experimental
+ As a help tool to run at the workstation, yes
- As a serious tool to virtualize services: no

--------
>>From this overview you can see that user-mode linux is still
useful but there are new problems to address.

I think that this is a good topic for a brainstorming session on
user-mode linux at FOSDEM 2011.

You are all invited to join the "new challenges in virtualization"
dev-room, proposing talks and new ideas.

nciv2011.v2.cs.unibo.it

ciao
	renzo

PS: I beg your pardon for the wrong subject in the first message of this thread.
copy&paste (middle button of the mouse for X) is a powerful tool but
sometimes creates damages...

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Spend less time writing and  rewriting code and more time creating great
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Re: [uml-devel] user-mode-linux-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, Jeff Dike <jdike@addtoit.com>

[richard -rw- weinberger]

On Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at 11:23 AM, Stanislav Meduna <stano@meduna.org> wrote:
> On 21.11.2010 10:35, Geert Uytterhoeven wrote:
>
>>> * user-mode-linux: dead or alive?
>
> >From a plain user's view: basically dead
>
> Why? See e.g. http://user-mode-linux.sourceforge.net/downloads.html
> SKAS3 is against 2.6.23 and unmaintained (my problem with
> skas3 corrupting floating point registers did not get fixed
> two years ago, although I tracked it to the skas3 and
> provided a complete example to reproduce it).
>
> SKAS4 is against 2.6.24 and marked as experimental.

Do we really need SKAS3/4?
SKAS0 is fine for everyone.
When you want a very fast virtualization solution UML is not the
best solution. Even with SKAS3/4.

> So what should a new user searching for a virtualization
> soultion take from it? Maybe there is an active development
> running, but I don't see it, alhough I am following the
> uml-devel.
>
> Having an unmaintained old and experimental new version
> is a sure way to hell for any software product, free
> or non-free...
>
>> Personally, I like UML because
>>   - It's easy to get it running,
>>   - I can run it without needing root access, so I can run it on any
>> Linux machine I have an account on[*],
>>   - I can use it to do things that are limited to root-only, e.g.
>>       * create device nodes on file system images,
>>       * run wireshark to analyze network communication.
>>   - I even use it to debug/develop code for the Amiga Zorro bus, by
>> adding a fake bus with fake devices ;-)
>
> As a help tool to run at the workstation, yes, by any means
> As a serious tool to virtualize services: no
>
> Regards
> --
>                                  Stano
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports
> standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1,  ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 & L3.
> Spend less time writing and  rewriting code and more time creating great
> experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/msIE9-sfdev2dev
> _______________________________________________
> User-mode-linux-devel mailing list
> User-mode-linux-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/user-mode-linux-devel
>

-- 
Thanks,
//richard

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Spend less time writing and  rewriting code and more time creating great
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http://p.sf.net/sfu/msIE9-sfdev2dev
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