[mlmmj] Encouraging

[mlmmj] Encouraging

[Ben Schmidt]

Hi, guys,

As an aside to our recent discussions, and the general flavour of our
little community here: I'm not sure the project will move forward very
effectively if we just pick holes in things. And that seems to be our
pattern, more often than not. Someone raises an idea or asks for
feedback, and most replies are negative or just dismissive. (And I do
realise I am an offender, too.)

Voicing concerns is, of course, really important. But it would be really
great if we could at least try to see the good points in people's
suggestions, and encourage our fellow developers by acknowledging these
good points. Perhaps if a feature doesn't negatively impact us, but we
merely see it as unnecessary or we don't want to use it, it would be
better to remain quiet than say something negative. People are giving up
their valuable time after all (even if it's just the time it takes to
write email). Some thankyous and affirmation are warranted. If you think
it clutters up the list too much, send a note privately. But honestly,
how much time does it take to read a reply that says "I like this idea"
or "Me too" and whack delete? Not a big price to pay to acknowledge each
other publicly.

When we do voice concerns, it would be great if we could think about
what the developer was trying to achieve by their suggestion, and
include in our reply an idea or two for how they could achieve their
desired result while avoiding whatever we thought was problematic. I
think the discussion is more constructive then.

Just something to chew on.

Smiles,

Ben.

Re: [mlmmj] Encouraging

[Thomas Goirand]

On 03/07/2011 06:07 PM, Ben Schmidt wrote:
> Hi, guys,
> 
> As an aside to our recent discussions, and the general flavour of our
> little community here: I'm not sure the project will move forward very
> effectively if we just pick holes in things. And that seems to be our
> pattern, more often than not. Someone raises an idea or asks for
> feedback, and most replies are negative or just dismissive. (And I do
> realise I am an offender, too.)

Man, have a round into the Debian mailing lists and see what negative or
dismissive mean. The tone in this list is really great, and we exchange
ideas very nicely. Just don't get things too badly, everyone has its own
opinion. Generally, we all love MLMMJ which is great, we all appreciate
a lot your work, the new site and so on. But when it comes to new
features and such things, we got to make sure we are going on the right
direction, and that can only be made by wrong ones!

Thomas

Re: [mlmmj] Encouraging

[Moritz Wilhelmy]

Hi,

Well, I've also been to mailing lists that are far worse than this one, and I
agree that all of us are subscribed to help making mlmmj a better MLM than it
already is.

I appreciate your work, this is the best (in terms of ease of use for me as an
administrator, as it was really easy to set up and configure, but also as user,
and user, mailman is horrible with it's cumbersome web settings and monthly
reminders) MLM I've seen so far, thanks a lot, and the new listtexts look
really, really great, so please keep up the good work ;)

Just my 2 cents.

Best regards,

Moritz

Re: [mlmmj] Encouraging

[Mark Alan]

On Mon, 07 Mar 2011 21:07:27 +1100, Ben Schmidt
<mail_ben_schmidt@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

> Someone raises an idea or asks for
> feedback, and most replies are negative or just dismissive. (And I do
> realise I am an offender, too.)

When we have so much of a good think like mlmmj certainly is, it is
only natural to resist any attempts to change it.
That resistance will be even greater if the changes, while not being
urgent (like security fixes), were not properly debated, or not clearly
explained and understood.

> Voicing concerns is, of course, really important. But it would be
> really great if we could at least try to see the good points in
> people's suggestions, and encourage our fellow developers by
> acknowledging these good points.

You are right of course. But what about seeing the fellow developers
explaining better why they think that a change or a new feature is
better.

> negatively impact us, but we merely see it as unnecessary or we don't
> want to use it, it would be better to remain quiet than say something
> negative.

Even iron wouldn't be hardened into steel if it would not for the
many cycles of heating, hard hammering and water cooling.

> much, send a note privately. But honestly, how much time does it take
> to read a reply that says "I like this idea" or "Me too" and whack
> delete?

You are right on target here.

> When we do voice concerns, it would be great if we could think about
> what the developer was trying to achieve

Here I disagree. The developer should be the one trying hard to explain
what he was whiling to achieve. The developer should be the one asking for help where he thinks he needs help to achieve it.

> include in our reply an idea or two for how they could achieve their
> desired result while avoiding whatever we thought was problematic.

I couldn't agree more. As a general principle in a software
development project no one should criticize without offering an
alternative idea, or a proper definition of the problem at hand

> Just something to chew on.

And a very good one.

Keep up the good work.

M.

[mlmmj] Re: Encouraging

[Ben Schmidt]

Thanks to those who replied to this thread. The replies themselves were
encouraging, I think!

On 7/03/11 10:49 PM, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> But when it comes to new features and such things, we got to make sure
> we are going on the right direction, and that can only be made by
> wrong ones!

Absolutely. We shouldn't stop the fruitful debate, we should just add a
few more positive comments in with it.

On 8/03/11 12:00 AM, Moritz Wilhelmy wrote:
> and the new listtexts look really, really great, so please keep up the
> good work ;)

This was really helpful to hear, as there's been silence on that issue,
which is even worse than a negative comment, as you just don't know what
anybody thinks!

On 8/03/11 12:21 AM, Mark Alan wrote:
> what about seeing the fellow developers explaining better why they
> think that a change or a new feature is better.

Good point. Let's all try to do that, too.

Ben.