Older versions of Linux as build hosts?

Older versions of Linux as build hosts?

[Matt Madison]

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Hi,

I know the documentation mentions that you should be running a ³reasonably
current² Linux as your build host, but in my enterprise environment I¹m
stuck with having to run fairly old versions, based on RHEL 4 and 5.  I¹ve
got some patches that I¹ve been maintaining so I can bootstrap Bernard
builds on these systems.  Is there any interest in supporting older systems
as build hosts?  Any thoughts on how far back ³reasonably current² is going
to be with each Yocto release?  I¹m trying to work with my IT group to
upgrade a bit more frequently, and for developer workstations, that might be
possible, but I¹m not sure I¹ll be able to convince them to do that for
servers in our data centers.

Is anyone else having this kind of problem?

Thanks,
-Matt

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Re: Older versions of Linux as build hosts?

[Mark Hatle]

On 3/22/11 11:40 AM, Matt Madison wrote:
> Hi,
> 

I have done builds with both RHEL 4 and RHEL 5.  Both on machines in which I do
not have root access.

For me I was able to simply provide an update python, some additional tools and
it worked.  (Note, I haven't tried it in the last 2 months though, so something
may have broken since then.)

> I know the documentation mentions that you should be running a “reasonably
> current” Linux as your build host, but in my enterprise environment I’m stuck
> with having to run fairly old versions, based on RHEL 4 and 5.  I’ve got some
> patches that I’ve been maintaining so I can bootstrap Bernard builds on these
> systems.  Is there any interest in supporting older systems as build hosts?  Any
> thoughts on how far back “reasonably current” is going to be with each Yocto
> release?  I’m trying to work with my IT group to upgrade a bit more frequently,
> and for developer workstations, that might be possible, but I’m not sure I’ll be
> able to convince them to do that for servers in our data centers.
> 
> Is anyone else having this kind of problem?

I think this is a fairly typical problem.  In my experience it's usually easier
to solve in a commercial space then pure open source.

As for the question about interest, we're always interested in patches.  At a
minimum, it would be nice to document what steps you had to do and what patches
you may have had to apply in order to get "unsupported" functionality out of the
build environment.  The yocto wiki seems a fairly natural place for this.

So please send what you have, or start an account on the Yocto Wiki and post it
there.

--Mark

> Thanks,
> -Matt
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> yocto mailing list
> yocto@yoctoproject.org
> https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto

Re: Older versions of Linux as build hosts?

[Rifenbark, Scott M]

Yes - the wiki is a great place for this type of information.  All the specifics for a particular build system and the steps you have to take to make it work can be collected there.  Then from the Quick Start we can mention where to get support information for older versions.

ScottR

-----Original Message-----
From: yocto-bounces@yoctoproject.org [mailto:yocto-bounces@yoctoproject.org] On Behalf Of Mark Hatle
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 9:48 AM
To: Matt Madison
Cc: Yocto Mailer
Subject: Re: [yocto] Older versions of Linux as build hosts?

On 3/22/11 11:40 AM, Matt Madison wrote:
> Hi,
> 

I have done builds with both RHEL 4 and RHEL 5.  Both on machines in which I do
not have root access.

For me I was able to simply provide an update python, some additional tools and
it worked.  (Note, I haven't tried it in the last 2 months though, so something
may have broken since then.)

> I know the documentation mentions that you should be running a "reasonably
> current" Linux as your build host, but in my enterprise environment I'm stuck
> with having to run fairly old versions, based on RHEL 4 and 5.  I've got some
> patches that I've been maintaining so I can bootstrap Bernard builds on these
> systems.  Is there any interest in supporting older systems as build hosts?  Any
> thoughts on how far back "reasonably current" is going to be with each Yocto
> release?  I'm trying to work with my IT group to upgrade a bit more frequently,
> and for developer workstations, that might be possible, but I'm not sure I'll be
> able to convince them to do that for servers in our data centers.
> 
> Is anyone else having this kind of problem?

I think this is a fairly typical problem.  In my experience it's usually easier
to solve in a commercial space then pure open source.

As for the question about interest, we're always interested in patches.  At a
minimum, it would be nice to document what steps you had to do and what patches
you may have had to apply in order to get "unsupported" functionality out of the
build environment.  The yocto wiki seems a fairly natural place for this.

So please send what you have, or start an account on the Yocto Wiki and post it
there.

--Mark

> Thanks,
> -Matt
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> yocto mailing list
> yocto@yoctoproject.org
> https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto

_______________________________________________
yocto mailing list
yocto@yoctoproject.org
https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto

Re: Older versions of Linux as build hosts?

[Matt Madison]

OK, sounds good.  I'll go through my notes and transcribe them to the wiki.

-Matt 


On 3/22/11 10:00 , "Rifenbark, Scott M" <scott.m.rifenbark@intel.com> wrote:

> Yes - the wiki is a great place for this type of information.  All the
> specifics for a particular build system and the steps you have to take to make
> it work can be collected there.  Then from the Quick Start we can mention
> where to get support information for older versions.
> 
> ScottR
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: yocto-bounces@yoctoproject.org [mailto:yocto-bounces@yoctoproject.org]
> On Behalf Of Mark Hatle
> Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 9:48 AM
> To: Matt Madison
> Cc: Yocto Mailer
> Subject: Re: [yocto] Older versions of Linux as build hosts?
> 
> On 3/22/11 11:40 AM, Matt Madison wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
> 
> I have done builds with both RHEL 4 and RHEL 5.  Both on machines in which I
> do
> not have root access.
> 
> For me I was able to simply provide an update python, some additional tools
> and
> it worked.  (Note, I haven't tried it in the last 2 months though, so
> something
> may have broken since then.)
> 
>> I know the documentation mentions that you should be running a "reasonably
>> current" Linux as your build host, but in my enterprise environment I'm stuck
>> with having to run fairly old versions, based on RHEL 4 and 5.  I've got some
>> patches that I've been maintaining so I can bootstrap Bernard builds on these
>> systems.  Is there any interest in supporting older systems as build hosts?
>> Any
>> thoughts on how far back "reasonably current" is going to be with each Yocto
>> release?  I'm trying to work with my IT group to upgrade a bit more
>> frequently,
>> and for developer workstations, that might be possible, but I'm not sure I'll
>> be
>> able to convince them to do that for servers in our data centers.
>> 
>> Is anyone else having this kind of problem?
> 
> I think this is a fairly typical problem.  In my experience it's usually
> easier
> to solve in a commercial space then pure open source.
> 
> As for the question about interest, we're always interested in patches.  At a
> minimum, it would be nice to document what steps you had to do and what
> patches
> you may have had to apply in order to get "unsupported" functionality out of
> the
> build environment.  The yocto wiki seems a fairly natural place for this.
> 
> So please send what you have, or start an account on the Yocto Wiki and post
> it
> there.
> 
> --Mark
> 
>> Thanks,
>> -Matt
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> yocto mailing list
>> yocto@yoctoproject.org
>> https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto
> 
> _______________________________________________
> yocto mailing list
> yocto@yoctoproject.org
> https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto

Re: Older versions of Linux as build hosts?

[Matt Madison]

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I¹ve posted some notes at https://wiki.yoctoproject.org/wiki/BuildingOnRHEL4
and will update further as I find more things to work around.

-Matt


On 3/22/11 10:00 AM, "Rifenbark, Scott M" <scott.m.rifenbark@intel.com>
wrote:

> Yes - the wiki is a great place for this type of information.  All the
> specifics for a particular build system and the steps you have to take to make
> it work can be collected there.  Then from the Quick Start we can mention
> where to get support information for older versions.
> 
> ScottR
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: yocto-bounces@yoctoproject.org [mailto:yocto-bounces@yoctoproject.org]
> On Behalf Of Mark Hatle
> Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 9:48 AM
> To: Matt Madison
> Cc: Yocto Mailer
> Subject: Re: [yocto] Older versions of Linux as build hosts?
> 
> On 3/22/11 11:40 AM, Matt Madison wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
> 
> I have done builds with both RHEL 4 and RHEL 5.  Both on machines in which I
> do
> not have root access.
> 
> For me I was able to simply provide an update python, some additional tools
> and
> it worked.  (Note, I haven't tried it in the last 2 months though, so
> something
> may have broken since then.)
> 
>> > I know the documentation mentions that you should be running a "reasonably
>> > current" Linux as your build host, but in my enterprise environment I'm
>> stuck
>> > with having to run fairly old versions, based on RHEL 4 and 5.  I've got
>> some
>> > patches that I've been maintaining so I can bootstrap Bernard builds on
>> these
>> > systems.  Is there any interest in supporting older systems as build hosts?
>> Any
>> > thoughts on how far back "reasonably current" is going to be with each
>> Yocto
>> > release?  I'm trying to work with my IT group to upgrade a bit more
>> frequently,
>> > and for developer workstations, that might be possible, but I'm not sure
>> I'll be
>> > able to convince them to do that for servers in our data centers.
>> >
>> > Is anyone else having this kind of problem?
> 
> I think this is a fairly typical problem.  In my experience it's usually
> easier
> to solve in a commercial space then pure open source.
> 
> As for the question about interest, we're always interested in patches.  At a
> minimum, it would be nice to document what steps you had to do and what
> patches
> you may have had to apply in order to get "unsupported" functionality out of
> the
> build environment.  The yocto wiki seems a fairly natural place for this.
> 
> So please send what you have, or start an account on the Yocto Wiki and post
> it
> there.
> 
> --Mark
> 
>> > Thanks,
>> > -Matt
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > yocto mailing list
>> > yocto@yoctoproject.org
>> > https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto
> 
> _______________________________________________
> yocto mailing list
> yocto@yoctoproject.org
> https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto
> 


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Re: Older versions of Linux as build hosts?

[Rifenbark, Scott M]

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Matt,

Thanks for putting that information on the wiki.  I will add a note to the QS that points there for information on older systems.

ScottR

From: Matt Madison [mailto:madison@cisco.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 12:37 PM
To: Rifenbark, Scott M; Mark Hatle
Cc: Yocto Mailer
Subject: Re: [yocto] Older versions of Linux as build hosts?

I've posted some notes at https://wiki.yoctoproject.org/wiki/BuildingOnRHEL4 and will update further as I find more things to work around.

-Matt


On 3/22/11 10:00 AM, "Rifenbark, Scott M" <scott.m.rifenbark@intel.com> wrote:
Yes - the wiki is a great place for this type of information.  All the specifics for a particular build system and the steps you have to take to make it work can be collected there.  Then from the Quick Start we can mention where to get support information for older versions.

ScottR

-----Original Message-----
From: yocto-bounces@yoctoproject.org [mailto:yocto-bounces@yoctoproject.org] On Behalf Of Mark Hatle
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 9:48 AM
To: Matt Madison
Cc: Yocto Mailer
Subject: Re: [yocto] Older versions of Linux as build hosts?

On 3/22/11 11:40 AM, Matt Madison wrote:
> Hi,
>

I have done builds with both RHEL 4 and RHEL 5.  Both on machines in which I do
not have root access.

For me I was able to simply provide an update python, some additional tools and
it worked.  (Note, I haven't tried it in the last 2 months though, so something
may have broken since then.)

> I know the documentation mentions that you should be running a "reasonably
> current" Linux as your build host, but in my enterprise environment I'm stuck
> with having to run fairly old versions, based on RHEL 4 and 5.  I've got some
> patches that I've been maintaining so I can bootstrap Bernard builds on these
> systems.  Is there any interest in supporting older systems as build hosts?  Any
> thoughts on how far back "reasonably current" is going to be with each Yocto
> release?  I'm trying to work with my IT group to upgrade a bit more frequently,
> and for developer workstations, that might be possible, but I'm not sure I'll be
> able to convince them to do that for servers in our data centers.
>
> Is anyone else having this kind of problem?

I think this is a fairly typical problem.  In my experience it's usually easier
to solve in a commercial space then pure open source.

As for the question about interest, we're always interested in patches.  At a
minimum, it would be nice to document what steps you had to do and what patches
you may have had to apply in order to get "unsupported" functionality out of the
build environment.  The yocto wiki seems a fairly natural place for this.

So please send what you have, or start an account on the Yocto Wiki and post it
there.

--Mark

> Thanks,
> -Matt
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> yocto mailing list
> yocto@yoctoproject.org
> https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto

_______________________________________________
yocto mailing list
yocto@yoctoproject.org
https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto

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Re: Older versions of Linux as build hosts?

[Jeremy Puhlman]

On 3/22/2011 9:48 AM, Mark Hatle wrote:
> On 3/22/11 11:40 AM, Matt Madison wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
> I have done builds with both RHEL 4 and RHEL 5.  Both on machines in which I do
> not have root access.
>
> For me I was able to simply provide an update python, some additional tools and
> it worked.  (Note, I haven't tried it in the last 2 months though, so something
> may have broken since then.)

I have noticed of late, pseudo's definition of clone conflicts with my
RHEL 4's definition of clone. Aside
from that I haven't noticed any significant issues.

Re: Older versions of Linux as build hosts?

[Mark Hatle]

On 3/22/11 12:01 PM, Jeremy Puhlman wrote:
> On 3/22/2011 9:48 AM, Mark Hatle wrote:
>> On 3/22/11 11:40 AM, Matt Madison wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>> I have done builds with both RHEL 4 and RHEL 5.  Both on machines in which I do
>> not have root access.
>>
>> For me I was able to simply provide an update python, some additional tools and
>> it worked.  (Note, I haven't tried it in the last 2 months though, so something
>> may have broken since then.)
> 
> I have noticed of late, pseudo's definition of clone conflicts with my
> RHEL 4's definition of clone. Aside
> from that I haven't noticed any significant issues.

semantics of clone changed between RHEL 4 and RHEL 5.  :(

The newer version of pseudo (upstream, not yet in Poky) fixes this issue.

It's still in development, so I wouldn't consider it stable yet -- but the
reworking of the utility directories is what was needed to identify the differences.

--Mark

Re: Older versions of Linux as build hosts?

[Richard Purdie]

On Tue, 2011-03-22 at 18:24 -0500, Mark Hatle wrote:
> On 3/22/11 12:01 PM, Jeremy Puhlman wrote:
> > On 3/22/2011 9:48 AM, Mark Hatle wrote:
> >> On 3/22/11 11:40 AM, Matt Madison wrote:
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >> I have done builds with both RHEL 4 and RHEL 5.  Both on machines in which I do
> >> not have root access.
> >>
> >> For me I was able to simply provide an update python, some additional tools and
> >> it worked.  (Note, I haven't tried it in the last 2 months though, so something
> >> may have broken since then.)
> > 
> > I have noticed of late, pseudo's definition of clone conflicts with my
> > RHEL 4's definition of clone. Aside
> > from that I haven't noticed any significant issues.
> 
> semantics of clone changed between RHEL 4 and RHEL 5.  :(
> 
> The newer version of pseudo (upstream, not yet in Poky) fixes this issue.
> 
> It's still in development, so I wouldn't consider it stable yet -- but the
> reworking of the utility directories is what was needed to identify the differences.

For what its worth, poky master is now moving ahead with new changes so
if you do have updates for master, the tree is open for them.

Cheers,

Richard

Re: Older versions of Linux as build hosts?

[Joshua Lock]

On Tue, 2011-03-22 at 09:40 -0700, Matt Madison wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I know the documentation mentions that you should be running a
> “reasonably current” Linux as your build host, but in my enterprise
> environment I’m stuck with having to run fairly old versions, based on
> RHEL 4 and 5.  I’ve got some patches that I’ve been maintaining so I
> can bootstrap Bernard builds on these systems.  Is there any interest
> in supporting older systems as build hosts?  Any thoughts on how far
> back “reasonably current” is going to be with each Yocto release?  I’m
> trying to work with my IT group to upgrade a bit more frequently, and
> for developer workstations, that might be possible, but I’m not sure
> I’ll be able to convince them to do that for servers in our data
> centers.
> 
> Is anyone else having this kind of problem?

We have other users suffering with this sort of problem which is why
Richard worked to enable Poky to build an external Python tarball.
This tarball should include what you need (Python + chrpath) to run Poky
on RHEL: http://autobuilder.yoctoproject.org/downloads/miscsupport/

I documented this for CentOS on the Yocto wiki:
https://wiki.yoctoproject.org/wiki/Poky/GettingStarted/Dependencies

Regards,
Joshua
-- 
Joshua Lock
        Yocto Build System Monkey
        Intel Open Source Technology Centre