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From: Rik van Riel <riel@redhat.com>
To: Dan Magenheimer <dan.magenheimer@oracle.com>
Cc: Andrea Arcangeli <aarcange@redhat.com>,
	Pekka Enberg <penberg@kernel.org>,
	Cyclonus J <cyclonusj@gmail.com>,
	Sasha Levin <levinsasha928@gmail.com>,
	Christoph Hellwig <hch@infradead.org>,
	David Rientjes <rientjes@google.com>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	linux-mm@kvack.org, LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Konrad Wilk <konrad.wilk@oracle.com>,
	Jeremy Fitzhardinge <jeremy@goop.org>,
	Seth Jennings <sjenning@linux.vnet.ibm.com>,
	ngupta@vflare.org, Chris Mason <chris.mason@oracle.com>,
	JBeulich@novell.com, Dave Hansen <dave@linux.vnet.ibm.com>,
	Jonathan Corbet <corbet@lwn.net>
Subject: Re: [GIT PULL] mm: frontswap (for 3.2 window)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2011 16:51:31 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <4EB1AD53.2000600@redhat.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1b2e4f74-7058-4712-85a7-84198723e3ee@default>

On 10/31/2011 07:36 PM, Dan Magenheimer wrote:
>> From: Andrea Arcangeli [mailto:aarcange@redhat.com]

>>> real work to do instead and (2) that vmexit/vmenter is horribly
>>
>> Sure the CPU has another 1000 VM to schedule. This is like saying
>> virtio-blk isn't needed on desktop virt becauase the desktop isn't
>> doing much I/O. Absurd argument, there are another 1000 desktops doing
>> I/O at the same time of course.
>
> But this is truly different, I think at least for the most common
> cases, because the guest is essentially out of physical memory if it
> is swapping.  And the vmexit/vmenter (I assume, I don't really
> know KVM) gives the KVM scheduler the opportunity to schedule
> another of those 1000 VMs if it wishes.

I believe the problem Andrea is trying to point out here is
that the proposed API cannot handle a batch of pages to be
pushed into frontswap/cleancache at one time.

Even if the current back-end implementations are synchronous
and can only do one page at a time, I believe it would still
be a good idea to have the API able to handle a vector with
a bunch of pages all at once.

That way we can optimize the back-ends as required, at some
later point in time.

If enough people start using tmem, such bottlenecks will show
up at some point :)


WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Rik van Riel <riel@redhat.com>
To: Dan Magenheimer <dan.magenheimer@oracle.com>
Cc: Andrea Arcangeli <aarcange@redhat.com>,
	Pekka Enberg <penberg@kernel.org>,
	Cyclonus J <cyclonusj@gmail.com>,
	Sasha Levin <levinsasha928@gmail.com>,
	Christoph Hellwig <hch@infradead.org>,
	David Rientjes <rientjes@google.com>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	linux-mm@kvack.org, LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Konrad Wilk <konrad.wilk@oracle.com>,
	Jeremy Fitzhardinge <jeremy@goop.org>,
	Seth Jennings <sjenning@linux.vnet.ibm.com>,
	ngupta@vflare.org, Chris Mason <chris.mason@oracle.com>,
	JBeulich@novell.com, Dave Hansen <dave@linux.vnet.ibm.com>,
	Jonathan Corbet <corbet@lwn.net>
Subject: Re: [GIT PULL] mm: frontswap (for 3.2 window)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2011 16:51:31 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <4EB1AD53.2000600@redhat.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1b2e4f74-7058-4712-85a7-84198723e3ee@default>

On 10/31/2011 07:36 PM, Dan Magenheimer wrote:
>> From: Andrea Arcangeli [mailto:aarcange@redhat.com]

>>> real work to do instead and (2) that vmexit/vmenter is horribly
>>
>> Sure the CPU has another 1000 VM to schedule. This is like saying
>> virtio-blk isn't needed on desktop virt becauase the desktop isn't
>> doing much I/O. Absurd argument, there are another 1000 desktops doing
>> I/O at the same time of course.
>
> But this is truly different, I think at least for the most common
> cases, because the guest is essentially out of physical memory if it
> is swapping.  And the vmexit/vmenter (I assume, I don't really
> know KVM) gives the KVM scheduler the opportunity to schedule
> another of those 1000 VMs if it wishes.

I believe the problem Andrea is trying to point out here is
that the proposed API cannot handle a batch of pages to be
pushed into frontswap/cleancache at one time.

Even if the current back-end implementations are synchronous
and can only do one page at a time, I believe it would still
be a good idea to have the API able to handle a vector with
a bunch of pages all at once.

That way we can optimize the back-ends as required, at some
later point in time.

If enough people start using tmem, such bottlenecks will show
up at some point :)

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  parent reply	other threads:[~2011-11-02 20:52 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 175+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2011-10-27 18:52 [GIT PULL] mm: frontswap (for 3.2 window) Dan Magenheimer
2011-10-27 18:52 ` Dan Magenheimer
     [not found] ` <alpine.DEB.2.00.1110271318220.7639@chino.kir.corp.google.com20111027211157.GA1199@infradead.org>
2011-10-27 19:30 ` Kurt Hackel
2011-10-27 19:30   ` Kurt Hackel
2011-10-27 20:18 ` David Rientjes
2011-10-27 20:18   ` David Rientjes
2011-10-27 21:11   ` Christoph Hellwig
2011-10-27 21:11     ` Christoph Hellwig
2011-10-27 21:49     ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-10-27 21:49       ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-10-27 21:52       ` Christoph Hellwig
2011-10-27 21:52         ` Christoph Hellwig
2011-10-27 22:21         ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-10-27 22:21           ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-10-28  7:12         ` Sasha Levin
2011-10-28  7:12           ` Sasha Levin
     [not found]           ` <CAOzbF4fnD=CGR-nizZoBxmFSuAjFC3uAHf3wDj5RLneJvJhrOQ@mail.gmail.comCAOJsxLGOTw7rtFnqeHvzFxifA0QgPVDHZzrEo=-uB2Gkrvp=JQ@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]             ` <552d2067-474d-4aef-a9a4-89e5fd8ef84f@default20111031181651.GF3466@redhat.com>
     [not found]               ` <60592afd-97aa-4eaf-b86b-f6695d31c7f1@default20111031223717.GI3466@redhat.com>
     [not found]                 ` <1b2e4f74-7058-4712-85a7-84198723e3ee@default20111101012017.GJ3466@redhat.com>
     [not found]                   ` <6a9db6d9-6f13-4855-b026-ba668c29ddfa@default20111101180702.GL3466@redhat.com>
     [not found]                     ` <b8a0ca71-a31b-488a-9a92-2502d4a6e9bf@default20111102013122.GA18879@redhat.com>
2011-10-28  7:30           ` Cyclonus J
2011-10-28  7:30             ` Cyclonus J
2011-10-28 14:26             ` Pekka Enberg
2011-10-28 14:26               ` Pekka Enberg
2011-10-28 15:21               ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-10-28 15:21                 ` Dan Magenheimer
     [not found]                 ` <CAOJsxLEE-qf9me1SAZLFiEVhHVnDh7BDrSx1+abe9R4mfkhD=g@mail.gmail.com20111028163053.GC1319@redhat.com>
2011-10-28 15:36                 ` Pekka Enberg
2011-10-28 15:36                   ` Pekka Enberg
2011-10-28 16:30                   ` Johannes Weiner
2011-10-28 16:30                     ` Johannes Weiner
2011-10-28 17:01                     ` Pekka Enberg
2011-10-28 17:01                       ` Pekka Enberg
2011-10-28 17:07                     ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-10-28 17:07                       ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-10-28 18:28                       ` John Stoffel
2011-10-28 18:28                         ` John Stoffel
2011-10-28 20:19                         ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-10-28 20:19                           ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-10-28 20:52                           ` John Stoffel
2011-10-28 20:52                             ` John Stoffel
2011-10-30 19:18                             ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-10-30 19:18                               ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-10-30 20:06                               ` Dave Hansen
2011-10-30 20:06                                 ` Dave Hansen
2011-10-30 21:50                                 ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-10-30 21:50                                   ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-11-02 19:45                                 ` Rik van Riel
2011-11-02 19:45                                   ` Rik van Riel
2011-11-02 20:45                                   ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-11-02 20:45                                     ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-11-06 22:32                             ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2011-11-08 12:15                               ` Ed Tomlinson
2011-11-08 12:15                                 ` Ed Tomlinson
2011-10-31  8:12                           ` James Bottomley
2011-10-31  8:12                             ` James Bottomley
2011-10-31 15:39                             ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-10-31 15:39                               ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-11-01 10:13                               ` James Bottomley
2011-11-01 10:13                                 ` James Bottomley
2011-11-01 18:10                                 ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-11-01 18:10                                   ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-11-01 18:48                                   ` Dave Hansen
2011-11-01 18:48                                     ` Dave Hansen
2011-11-01 21:32                                     ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-11-01 21:32                                       ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-11-02  7:44                                   ` James Bottomley
2011-11-02  7:44                                     ` James Bottomley
2011-11-02 19:39                                     ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-11-02 19:39                                       ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-10-31 18:44                         ` Andrea Arcangeli
2011-10-31 18:44                           ` Andrea Arcangeli
2011-10-30 21:47                       ` Johannes Weiner
2011-10-30 21:47                         ` Johannes Weiner
2011-10-30 23:19                         ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-10-30 23:19                           ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-10-31 18:34                       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2011-10-31 18:34                         ` Andrea Arcangeli
2011-10-31 21:45                         ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-10-31 21:45                           ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-10-28 16:37                   ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-10-28 16:37                     ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-10-28 16:59                     ` Pekka Enberg
2011-10-28 16:59                       ` Pekka Enberg
2011-10-28 17:20                       ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-10-28 17:20                         ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-10-31 18:16                 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2011-10-31 18:16                   ` Andrea Arcangeli
2011-10-31 20:58                   ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-10-31 20:58                     ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-10-31 22:37                     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2011-10-31 22:37                       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2011-10-31 23:36                       ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-10-31 23:36                         ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-11-01  1:20                         ` Andrea Arcangeli
2011-11-01  1:20                           ` Andrea Arcangeli
2011-11-01 16:41                           ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-11-01 16:41                             ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-11-01 18:07                             ` Andrea Arcangeli
2011-11-01 18:07                               ` Andrea Arcangeli
2011-11-01 21:00                               ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-11-01 21:00                                 ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-11-02  1:31                                 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2011-11-02  1:31                                   ` Andrea Arcangeli
2011-11-02 19:06                                   ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-11-02 19:06                                     ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-11-03  0:32                                     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2011-11-03  0:32                                       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2011-11-03 22:29                                       ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-11-03 22:29                                         ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-11-02 20:51                         ` Rik van Riel [this message]
2011-11-02 20:51                           ` Rik van Riel
2011-11-02 21:14                           ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-11-02 21:14                             ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-11-15 16:29                             ` Rik van Riel
2011-11-15 16:29                               ` Rik van Riel
2011-11-15 17:33                               ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2011-11-15 17:33                                 ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2011-11-16 14:49                                 ` Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk
2011-11-16 14:49                                   ` Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk
2011-11-01 10:16                   ` James Bottomley
2011-11-01 10:16                     ` James Bottomley
2011-11-01 18:21                     ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-11-01 18:21                       ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-11-02  8:14                       ` James Bottomley
2011-11-02  8:14                         ` James Bottomley
2011-11-02 20:08                         ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-11-02 20:08                           ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-11-03 10:30                           ` Theodore Tso
2011-11-03 10:30                             ` Theodore Tso
2011-11-03 14:59                             ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-11-03 14:59                               ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-11-02 15:44                     ` Avi Kivity
2011-11-02 15:44                       ` Avi Kivity
2011-11-02 16:02                       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2011-11-02 16:02                         ` Andrea Arcangeli
2011-11-02 16:13                         ` Avi Kivity
2011-11-02 16:13                           ` Avi Kivity
2011-11-02 20:27                           ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-11-02 20:27                             ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-11-02 20:19                       ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-11-02 20:19                         ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-10-27 21:44 ` Avi Miller
2011-10-27 21:44   ` Avi Miller
2011-10-27 22:33 ` Brian King
2011-10-27 22:33   ` Brian King
2011-10-28  5:17 ` Nitin Gupta
2011-10-28  5:17   ` Nitin Gupta
2011-10-29 13:43 ` Ed Tomlinson
2011-10-29 13:43   ` Ed Tomlinson
2011-10-31  8:13 ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2011-10-31  8:13   ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2011-10-31 16:38   ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-10-31 16:38     ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-11-01  0:50     ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2011-11-01  0:50       ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2011-11-01 15:25       ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-11-01 15:25         ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-11-01 21:43         ` Andrew Morton
2011-11-01 21:43           ` Andrew Morton
2011-11-01 22:25           ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-11-01 22:25             ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-11-02 21:03           ` Rik van Riel
2011-11-02 21:03             ` Rik van Riel
2011-11-02 21:42             ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-11-02 21:42               ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-11-02  1:14         ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2011-11-02  1:14           ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2011-11-02 15:12           ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-11-02 15:12             ` Dan Magenheimer
2011-11-04  4:19             ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2011-11-04  4:19               ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2011-11-03 16:49 ` Jan Beulich
2011-11-03 16:49   ` Jan Beulich
2011-11-04  0:54   ` Andrew Morton
2011-11-04  0:54     ` Andrew Morton
2011-11-04  8:49     ` Jan Beulich
2011-11-04  8:49       ` Jan Beulich
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2011-11-04 12:37 Clayton Weaver
2011-11-05 17:08 Clayton Weaver

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