"whitespace coding style cleanup" broke coding style

"whitespace coding style cleanup" broke coding style

[Jiri Slaby]

commit 475be4d85a274d0961593db41cf85689db1d583c
Author: Joe Perches <joe@perches.com>
Date:   Sun Feb 19 19:52:38 2012 -0800

     isdn: whitespace coding style cleanup

     isdn source code uses a not-current coding style.
...
     Done with emacs and some scripts and some typing.
...
--- a/drivers/isdn/gigaset/interface.c
+++ b/drivers/isdn/gigaset/interface.c
...
@@ -680,9 +680,9 @@ void gigaset_if_initdriver(struct gigaset_driver 
*drv, const
  char *procname,
                 goto enomem;

         tty->magic =            TTY_DRIVER_MAGIC,
-       tty->type =             TTY_DRIVER_TYPE_SERIAL,
-       tty->subtype =          SERIAL_TYPE_NORMAL,
-       tty->flags =            TTY_DRIVER_REAL_RAW | 
TTY_DRIVER_DYNAMIC_DEV;
+               tty->type =             TTY_DRIVER_TYPE_SERIAL,
+               tty->subtype =          SERIAL_TYPE_NORMAL,
+               tty->flags =            TTY_DRIVER_REAL_RAW | 
TTY_DRIVER_DYNAMIC_DEV;

Hmm, please, fix your scripts or emacs!

Through which tree did this get in?

thanks,
-- 
js
suse labs

Re: "whitespace coding style cleanup" broke coding style

[Tilman Schmidt]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Am 27.02.2012 09:59, schrieb Jiri Slaby:
> commit 475be4d85a274d0961593db41cf85689db1d583c Author: Joe Perches
> <joe@perches.com> Date:   Sun Feb 19 19:52:38 2012 -0800
> 
> isdn: whitespace coding style cleanup
> 
> isdn source code uses a not-current coding style. ... Done with
> emacs and some scripts and some typing. ... ---
> a/drivers/isdn/gigaset/interface.c +++
> b/drivers/isdn/gigaset/interface.c ... @@ -680,9 +680,9 @@ void
> gigaset_if_initdriver(struct gigaset_driver *drv, const char
> *procname, goto enomem;
> 
> tty->magic =            TTY_DRIVER_MAGIC, -       tty->type =
> TTY_DRIVER_TYPE_SERIAL, -       tty->subtype =
> SERIAL_TYPE_NORMAL, -       tty->flags =
> TTY_DRIVER_REAL_RAW | TTY_DRIVER_DYNAMIC_DEV; +
> tty->type =             TTY_DRIVER_TYPE_SERIAL, +
> tty->subtype =          SERIAL_TYPE_NORMAL, +
> tty->flags =            TTY_DRIVER_REAL_RAW | 
> TTY_DRIVER_DYNAMIC_DEV;
> 
> Hmm, please, fix your scripts or emacs!
> 
> Through which tree did this get in?

That's the first I see of this patch.
It neither came through LKML nor did I get a CC.
For all I know, this didn't get in.
It isn't in http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git
anyway.

Regards,
Tilman

- -- 
Tilman Schmidt                    E-Mail: tilman@imap.cc
Bonn, Germany
Diese Nachricht besteht zu 100% aus wiederverwerteten Bits.
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Re: "whitespace coding style cleanup" broke coding style

[Jiri Slaby]

On 02/27/2012 12:19 PM, Tilman Schmidt wrote:
> Am 27.02.2012 09:59, schrieb Jiri Slaby:
>> commit 475be4d85a274d0961593db41cf85689db1d583c Author: Joe Perches
>> <joe@perches.com>  Date:   Sun Feb 19 19:52:38 2012 -0800
>>
>> isdn: whitespace coding style cleanup
>>
>> isdn source code uses a not-current coding style. ... Done with
>> emacs and some scripts and some typing. ... ---
>> a/drivers/isdn/gigaset/interface.c +++
>> b/drivers/isdn/gigaset/interface.c ... @@ -680,9 +680,9 @@ void
>> gigaset_if_initdriver(struct gigaset_driver *drv, const char
>> *procname, goto enomem;
>>
>> tty->magic =            TTY_DRIVER_MAGIC, -       tty->type =
>> TTY_DRIVER_TYPE_SERIAL, -       tty->subtype =
>> SERIAL_TYPE_NORMAL, -       tty->flags =
>> TTY_DRIVER_REAL_RAW | TTY_DRIVER_DYNAMIC_DEV; +
>> tty->type =             TTY_DRIVER_TYPE_SERIAL, +
>> tty->subtype =          SERIAL_TYPE_NORMAL, +
>> tty->flags =            TTY_DRIVER_REAL_RAW |
>> TTY_DRIVER_DYNAMIC_DEV;
>>
>> Hmm, please, fix your scripts or emacs!
>>
>> Through which tree did this get in?
>
> That's the first I see of this patch.
> It neither came through LKML nor did I get a CC.
> For all I know, this didn't get in.
> It isn't in http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git
> anyway.

By "in" I meant "in -next". gitk suggests through davem's tree.

It collided with my local patches, this is how I spotted it...

thanks,
-- 
js
suse labs

Re: "whitespace coding style cleanup" broke coding style

[Joe Perches]

On Mon, 2012-02-27 at 09:59 +0100, Jiri Slaby wrote:
> commit 475be4d85a274d0961593db41cf85689db1d583c
> Author: Joe Perches <joe@perches.com>
> Date:   Sun Feb 19 19:52:38 2012 -0800
> 
>      isdn: whitespace coding style cleanup
> 
>      isdn source code uses a not-current coding style.
> ...
>      Done with emacs and some scripts and some typing.
> ...
> --- a/drivers/isdn/gigaset/interface.c
> +++ b/drivers/isdn/gigaset/interface.c
> ...
> @@ -680,9 +680,9 @@ void gigaset_if_initdriver(struct gigaset_driver 
> *drv, const
>   char *procname,
>                  goto enomem;
> 
>          tty->magic =            TTY_DRIVER_MAGIC,
> -       tty->type =             TTY_DRIVER_TYPE_SERIAL,
> -       tty->subtype =          SERIAL_TYPE_NORMAL,
> -       tty->flags =            TTY_DRIVER_REAL_RAW | 
> TTY_DRIVER_DYNAMIC_DEV;
> +               tty->type =             TTY_DRIVER_TYPE_SERIAL,
> +               tty->subtype =          SERIAL_TYPE_NORMAL,
> +               tty->flags =            TTY_DRIVER_REAL_RAW | 
> TTY_DRIVER_DYNAMIC_DEV;
> 
> Hmm, please, fix your scripts or emacs!

Hi Jiri.

I'm not fixing emacs.

Notice that the code improperly uses commas and
not semicolons for line terminations like the
lines immediately above and below it.

btw:  Your copy/paste lost the tab indents.

The emacs pass was not perfect, nor was it
intended to be perfect.  There are _way_
too many coding style defects in isdn for
that.

It was a first pass and an overall improvement.

"It's quite a bit more like what passes
for the current kernel coding style though."

> Through which tree did this get in?

net-next

> thanks,

I'm working on improving the logging style
in isdn and will submit more patches soonish.

cheers, Joe

Re: "whitespace coding style cleanup" broke coding style

[Jiri Slaby]

On 02/27/2012 05:52 PM, Joe Perches wrote:
> On Mon, 2012-02-27 at 09:59 +0100, Jiri Slaby wrote:
>> commit 475be4d85a274d0961593db41cf85689db1d583c
>> Author: Joe Perches<joe@perches.com>
>> Date:   Sun Feb 19 19:52:38 2012 -0800
>>
>>       isdn: whitespace coding style cleanup
>>
>>       isdn source code uses a not-current coding style.
>> ...
>>       Done with emacs and some scripts and some typing.
>> ...
>> --- a/drivers/isdn/gigaset/interface.c
>> +++ b/drivers/isdn/gigaset/interface.c
>> ...
>> @@ -680,9 +680,9 @@ void gigaset_if_initdriver(struct gigaset_driver
>> *drv, const
>>    char *procname,
>>                   goto enomem;
>>
>>           tty->magic =            TTY_DRIVER_MAGIC,
>> -       tty->type =             TTY_DRIVER_TYPE_SERIAL,
>> -       tty->subtype =          SERIAL_TYPE_NORMAL,
>> -       tty->flags =            TTY_DRIVER_REAL_RAW |
>> TTY_DRIVER_DYNAMIC_DEV;
>> +               tty->type =             TTY_DRIVER_TYPE_SERIAL,
>> +               tty->subtype =          SERIAL_TYPE_NORMAL,
>> +               tty->flags =            TTY_DRIVER_REAL_RAW |
>> TTY_DRIVER_DYNAMIC_DEV;
>>
>> Hmm, please, fix your scripts or emacs!
>
> Hi Jiri.
>
> I'm not fixing emacs.
>
> Notice that the code improperly uses commas and
> not semicolons for line terminations like the
> lines immediately above and below it.

Oh, and you see that you made it actually _worse_? The patch should not 
touch the code at all. It is obviously totally broken. In a separate 
patch you might do s@,@;@ instead.

> btw:  Your copy/paste lost the tab indents.

Yes, but as I did not expect anybody to apply it, I see no problem in that.

> The emacs pass was not perfect, nor was it
> intended to be perfect.  There are _way_
> too many coding style defects in isdn for
> that.

Hmm, but did not we conclude some time ago that we will not touch code 
just to perform a whitespace cleanup?

> It was a first pass and an overall improvement.

I hope no other passes are going to happen there or anywhere in TTY 
drivers. I really do not want to solve zillion collisions in my ~100 
local patches due to whitespace changes, sorry.

That was exactly the reason why not to cleanup the files just to be 
checkpatch-proof.

> "It's quite a bit more like what passes
> for the current kernel coding style though."

Yes, but it does not pass our brain, does it? One should throw 
"checkpatch --file" or alike away, finally.

thanks,
-- 
js
suse labs

Re: "whitespace coding style cleanup" broke coding style

[Joe Perches]

On Mon, 2012-02-27 at 18:12 +0100, Jiri Slaby wrote:
> On 02/27/2012 05:52 PM, Joe Perches wrote:
> > Notice that the code improperly uses commas and
> > not semicolons for line terminations like the
> > lines immediately above and below it.
> 
> Oh, and you see that you made it actually _worse_?

Actually, no.  This changes does highlight a
nominal code style defect though.

> The patch should not 
> touch the code at all. It is obviously totally broken. In a separate 
> patch you might do s@,@;@ instead.

The code in either form is neither broken nor
incorrect.  It's just "out of style".
Emacs did made it consistent.

> Hmm, but did not we conclude some time ago that we will not touch code 
> just to perform a whitespace cleanup?

It's a prelude to other patches so actually
that's done quite a lot.   git blame -w
doesn't even show my name on any of the
code in this patch.

> > It was a first pass and an overall improvement.
> 
> I hope no other passes are going to happen there or anywhere in TTY 
> drivers. I really do not want to solve zillion collisions in my ~100 
> local patches due to whitespace changes, sorry.

Perhaps you should submit your ~100 patches sooner
rather than later.  That's a lot of changes that
could have any number of collisions.

> Yes, but it does not pass our brain, does it? One should throw 
> "checkpatch --file" or alike away, finally.

Perhaps you might notice I did not use checkpatch
as a guide nor as a criteria for submission.

It was ~5MB patch btw.  Compilation was done to
verify lack of object delta only.

Thanks for noticing the oddly formatted code.
I'll send a patch to fix it.

cheers, Joe

[PATCH net-next] gigaset: Use semicolons to terminate statements

[Joe Perches]

Commas are not generally used at locations where
statement termination semicolons are used.

Realign each field set at appropriate indentation.

Signed-off-by: Joe Perches <joe@perches.com>
---
diff --git a/drivers/isdn/gigaset/interface.c b/drivers/isdn/gigaset/interface.c
index da2486e..91f99e4 100644
@@ -679,10 +679,10 @@ void gigaset_if_initdriver(struct gigaset_driver *drv, const char *procname,
 	if (tty == NULL)
 		goto enomem;
 
-	tty->magic =		TTY_DRIVER_MAGIC,
-		tty->type =		TTY_DRIVER_TYPE_SERIAL,
-		tty->subtype =		SERIAL_TYPE_NORMAL,
-		tty->flags =		TTY_DRIVER_REAL_RAW | TTY_DRIVER_DYNAMIC_DEV;
+	tty->magic =		TTY_DRIVER_MAGIC;
+	tty->type =		TTY_DRIVER_TYPE_SERIAL;
+	tty->subtype =		SERIAL_TYPE_NORMAL;
+	tty->flags =		TTY_DRIVER_REAL_RAW | TTY_DRIVER_DYNAMIC_DEV;
 
 	tty->driver_name =	procname;
 	tty->name =		devname;

Re: [PATCH net-next] gigaset: Use semicolons to terminate statements

[David Miller]

From: Joe Perches <joe@perches.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2012 09:39:27 -0800

> Commas are not generally used at locations where
> statement termination semicolons are used.
> 
> Realign each field set at appropriate indentation.
> 
> Signed-off-by: Joe Perches <joe@perches.com>

Applied, thanks.

Re: "whitespace coding style cleanup" broke coding style

[Jiri Slaby]

On 02/27/2012 06:27 PM, Joe Perches wrote:
> On Mon, 2012-02-27 at 18:12 +0100, Jiri Slaby wrote:
>> The patch should not
>> touch the code at all. It is obviously totally broken. In a separate
>> patch you might do s@,@;@ instead.
>
> The code in either form is neither broken nor
> incorrect.  It's just "out of style".
> Emacs did made it consistent.

I understand that it is correct according to the style. It is not 
correct in that how humans read it.

>> Hmm, but did not we conclude some time ago that we will not touch code
>> just to perform a whitespace cleanup?
>
> It's a prelude to other patches so actually
> that's done quite a lot.   git blame -w
> doesn't even show my name on any of the
> code in this patch.

Yeah, but git merge or rebase do not cope with this. That is the problem 
I am writing about.

>>> It was a first pass and an overall improvement.
>>
>> I hope no other passes are going to happen there or anywhere in TTY
>> drivers. I really do not want to solve zillion collisions in my ~100
>> local patches due to whitespace changes, sorry.
>
> Perhaps you should submit your ~100 patches sooner
> rather than later.  That's a lot of changes that
> could have any number of collisions.

No, sorry, I do not send patch series which are not reviewed by me with 
at least 2 weeks distance. Anyway the point is elsewhere.

To emphasize: I do not mind random changes on random files. That is easy 
to fix. I mind whitespace cleanups over _whole_ subtrees.

>> Yes, but it does not pass our brain, does it? One should throw
>> "checkpatch --file" or alike away, finally.
>
> Perhaps you might notice I did not use checkpatch
> as a guide nor as a criteria for submission.

Ok, but you still fit in "or alike" above.

> It was ~5MB patch btw.  Compilation was done to
> verify lack of object delta only.

I see. Sorry to say that, but 5MB of whitespace cleanup is purely 
insane. Do not tell me that you are going to fix/change something in all 
the files. And even if that is the case, fixes go first so that people 
are able to backport to stable if they fit there.

Please, search archives for similar discussions. I do not want to repeat 
that.

> Thanks for noticing the oddly formatted code.
> I'll send a patch to fix it.

It looks good. ACK. [Although I am sad I will have to solve that 
conflict once more :(.]

thanks,
-- 
js
suse labs

Re: "whitespace coding style cleanup" broke coding style

[Tilman Schmidt]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 27.02.2012 17:52, Joe Perches wrote:
> On Mon, 2012-02-27 at 09:59 +0100, Jiri Slaby wrote:
>> commit 475be4d85a274d0961593db41cf85689db1d583c
>> Author: Joe Perches <joe@perches.com>
>> Date:   Sun Feb 19 19:52:38 2012 -0800
>>
>>      isdn: whitespace coding style cleanup
>>
>>      isdn source code uses a not-current coding style.
[...]
> It was a first pass and an overall improvement.

I'm not so sure about that, but I'm probably biased.

What grieves me more is how that patch was sneaked in without any
notification to the maintainers of the code in question. With the
customary CC, we could have caught the problems before they reached
- -next.

> I'm working on improving the logging style
> in isdn and will submit more patches soonish.

Please remember to CC the maintainers of the affected code this time.

Thanks,
Tilman

- -- 
Tilman Schmidt                    E-Mail: tilman@imap.cc
Bonn, Germany
Diese Nachricht besteht zu 100% aus wiederverwerteten Bits.
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Re: "whitespace coding style cleanup" broke coding style

[Joe Perches]

On Tue, 2012-02-28 at 18:58 +0100, Tilman Schmidt wrote:
> Please remember to CC the maintainers of the affected code this time.

Karsten Keil is the nominal maintainer for
all of drivers/isdn.

I sent the patch/pull request directly to him
and cc'd netdev.  I did not send the patch/pull
request to isdn4linux as it's a subscriber-only
list and I'm not subscribed nor do I wish to be.

ISDN SUBSYSTEM
M:	Karsten Keil <isdn@linux-pingi.de>
L:	isdn4linux@listserv.isdn4linux.de (subscribers-only)
L:	netdev@vger.kernel.org
W:	http://www.isdn4linux.de
T:	git git://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/kkeil/isdn-2.6.git
S:	Maintained
F:	Documentation/isdn/
F:	drivers/isdn/

If isdn4linux is an active list, (the archive doesn't
appear so http://listserv.isdn4linux.de/pipermail/isdn4linux/)
I suggest moving it to vger or making it moderated or open.

The git tree is no longer on git.kernel.org.
Perhaps that should be restored as well.

Karsten, you don't seem to have much activity
recently in drivers/isdn git history.

Are you still a MAINTAINER for isdn?

If Karsten is not really active, is there a
volunteer to take his place?

Re: "whitespace coding style cleanup" broke coding style

[Tilman Schmidt]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Am 28.02.2012 23:05, schrieb Joe Perches:
> On Tue, 2012-02-28 at 18:58 +0100, Tilman Schmidt wrote:
>> Please remember to CC the maintainers of the affected code this time.
> 
> Karsten Keil is the nominal maintainer for
> all of drivers/isdn.

Look again.

> ISDN SUBSYSTEM
> M:	Karsten Keil <isdn@linux-pingi.de>
> L:	isdn4linux@listserv.isdn4linux.de (subscribers-only)
> L:	netdev@vger.kernel.org
> W:	http://www.isdn4linux.de
> T:	git git://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/kkeil/isdn-2.6.git
> S:	Maintained
> F:	Documentation/isdn/
> F:	drivers/isdn/

GIGASET ISDN DRIVERS
M:	Hansjoerg Lipp <hjlipp@web.de>
M:	Tilman Schmidt <tilman@imap.cc>
L:	gigaset307x-common@lists.sourceforge.net
W:	http://gigaset307x.sourceforge.net/
S:	Maintained
F:	Documentation/isdn/README.gigaset
F:	drivers/isdn/gigaset/
F:	include/linux/gigaset_dev.h

HTH
T.

- -- 
Tilman Schmidt                    E-Mail: tilman@imap.cc
Bonn, Germany
Diese Nachricht besteht zu 100% aus wiederverwerteten Bits.
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Re: "whitespace coding style cleanup" broke coding style

[Joe Perches]

On Wed, 2012-02-29 at 00:08 +0100, Tilman Schmidt wrote:
> Am 28.02.2012 23:05, schrieb Joe Perches:
> > On Tue, 2012-02-28 at 18:58 +0100, Tilman Schmidt wrote:
> >> Please remember to CC the maintainers of the affected code this time.
> > Karsten Keil is the nominal maintainer for
> > all of drivers/isdn.
> Look again.

What I wrote is correct.

I am aware there are 2 other ISDN sections
and maintainers listed in MAINTAINERS.

One of those, Armin Schindler, (cc'd) hasn't
signed a single commit in git history.

I do hope that you or someone else would
answer my other questions about the mailing
lists and general maintainership for isdn.

You all should coordinate with Karsten if
he really still is the maintainer for isdn.

Finally yes, I'll try to get you on the cc
list the next time I send patches against
drivers/isdn/gigaset.

cheers, Joe

Re: "whitespace coding style cleanup" broke coding style

[David Miller]

The truth is that isdn is unmaintained, so I just apply all ISDN
patches directly after I review them, and I will continue to do so
with impunity.

Re: "whitespace coding style cleanup" broke coding style

[Alan Cox]

On Tue, 28 Feb 2012 18:42:46 -0500 (EST)
David Miller <davem@davemloft.net> wrote:

> 
> The truth is that isdn is unmaintained, so I just apply all ISDN
> patches directly after I review them, and I will continue to do so
> with impunity.

Except the Gigaset which has its own maintainer entry and active
maintainer...

Re: "whitespace coding style cleanup" broke coding style

[Armin Schindler]

On 02/29/2012 12:28 AM, Joe Perches wrote:
> On Wed, 2012-02-29 at 00:08 +0100, Tilman Schmidt wrote:
>> Am 28.02.2012 23:05, schrieb Joe Perches:
>>> On Tue, 2012-02-28 at 18:58 +0100, Tilman Schmidt wrote:
>>>> Please remember to CC the maintainers of the affected code this time.
>>> Karsten Keil is the nominal maintainer for
>>> all of drivers/isdn.
>> Look again.
>
> What I wrote is correct.
>
> I am aware there are 2 other ISDN sections
> and maintainers listed in MAINTAINERS.
>
> One of those, Armin Schindler, (cc'd) hasn't
> signed a single commit in git history.

True, my last work here was a long time ago.
I used to maintain the eicon driver, but this driver
is not just old, it is simply outdated for years and
I doubt someone will ever use it in newer kernels.
It just creates work here.

Some time ago I asked (I don't remember who) why
don't we remove that old driver from the kernel.
It wasn't done because there is no follow up for the
kernel. The new drivers out there are maintained,
but will never be part of the kernel (coding style, etc.).
I guess the idea was not to remove a driver from the kernel
when there is no alternative (in kernel).
Maybe I should bring this up again and ask for a removal of the
current eicon driver in kernel...

regards,
Armin

Re: "whitespace coding style cleanup" broke coding style

[Joe Perches]

On Wed, 2012-02-29 at 09:27 +0100, Armin Schindler wrote:
> On 02/29/2012 12:28 AM, Joe Perches wrote:
> > One of those, Armin Schindler, (cc'd) hasn't
> > signed a single commit in git history.
> True, my last work here was a long time ago.
> I used to maintain the eicon driver, but this driver
> is not just old, it is simply outdated for years and
> I doubt someone will ever use it in newer kernels.
> It just creates work here.

You could remove yourself from MAINTAINERS if you want.

 MAINTAINERS |    3 +--
 1 files changed, 1 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-)

diff --git a/MAINTAINERS b/MAINTAINERS
index 5d3ae86..d40a974 100644
--- a/MAINTAINERS
+++ b/MAINTAINERS
@@ -3682,10 +3682,9 @@ F:	include/linux/isdn.h
 F:	include/linux/isdn/
 
 ISDN SUBSYSTEM (Eicon active card driver)
-M:	Armin Schindler <mac@melware.de>
 L:	isdn4linux@listserv.isdn4linux.de (subscribers-only)
 W:	http://www.melware.de
-S:	Maintained
+S:	Orphan
 F:	drivers/isdn/hardware/eicon/
 
 IT87 HARDWARE MONITORING DRIVER

> Some time ago I asked (I don't remember who) why
> don't we remove that old driver from the kernel.
> It wasn't done because there is no follow up for the
> kernel. The new drivers out there are maintained,
> but will never be part of the kernel (coding style, etc.).
> I guess the idea was not to remove a driver from the kernel
> when there is no alternative (in kernel).
> Maybe I should bring this up again and ask for a removal of the
> current eicon driver in kernel...

Your choice.

It could be moved to staging as a prelude to removing
it after a few releases.

I did do a rather large drive-by whitespace cleanup
of eicon.  It still compiles.  I've no idea if it
still works though.

cheers, Joe

Re: "whitespace coding style cleanup" broke coding style

[Tilman Schmidt]

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Am 29.02.2012 00:28, Joe Perches wrote:
> I do hope that you or someone else would answer my other questions
> about the mailing lists and general maintainership for isdn.

Sorry, I can't help you much there. All I can say is:

- - Karsten is still participating in the development of Linux
ISDN support but seems to have moved his focus away from the
kernel towards out-of-tree drivers and userspace stuff.

- - The isdn4linux mailing list is alive and kicking, though
also mainly concerned with userspace questions. AFAIK it
forwards postings from non-subscribers to the moderator but
I'm not sure. Moving it to vger is probably not an option.

> Finally yes, I'll try to get you on the cc list the next time I
> send patches against drivers/isdn/gigaset.

That will be most kind.

Thanks,
Tilman

- -- 
Tilman Schmidt                    E-Mail: tilman@imap.cc
Bonn, Germany
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