live image types and qemu machines

live image types and qemu machines

[Barros Pena, Belen]

Hi all,

The current Hob allows you to build images for a qemu machine selecting
'live' as your image type. To me (with my pitiful knowledge) this doesn't
make much sense: would I want to deploy an image built for a
virtualisation environment in a real piece of hardware?

So here goes a question: should we allow Hob users, who are mainly people
new to the Yocto project, to select the 'live' image type when building
images for qemu machines?

This might sound like a silly question, but it has a pretty big impact on
the Settings dialog and on the number of variations we need to create for
our 'Image details' screen, which appears after the build finishes and
displays logical next steps (like run the image or deploy your image to
external storage).

Any help with this would be much appreciated.

Thanks!

Belen




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Re: live image types and qemu machines

[Darren Hart]

On 06/14/2012 08:09 AM, Barros Pena, Belen wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> The current Hob allows you to build images for a qemu machine selecting
> 'live' as your image type. To me (with my pitiful knowledge) this doesn't
> make much sense: would I want to deploy an image built for a
> virtualisation environment in a real piece of hardware?
> 
> So here goes a question: should we allow Hob users, who are mainly people
> new to the Yocto project, to select the 'live' image type when building
> images for qemu machines?
> 

In my opinion: YES. The reason is that this allows you to test the live
image format and the boot mechanism on virtualized hardware. This is a
valuable development tool.

--
Darren

> This might sound like a silly question, but it has a pretty big impact on
> the Settings dialog and on the number of variations we need to create for
> our 'Image details' screen, which appears after the build finishes and
> displays logical next steps (like run the image or deploy your image to
> external storage).
> 
> Any help with this would be much appreciated.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Belen
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Intel Corporation (UK) Limited
> Registered No. 1134945 (England)
> Registered Office: Pipers Way, Swindon SN3 1RJ
> VAT No: 860 2173 47
> 
> This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for
> the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review or distribution
> by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended
> recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> yocto mailing list
> yocto@yoctoproject.org
> https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto
> 

-- 
Darren Hart
Intel Open Source Technology Center
Yocto Project - Linux Kernel

Re: live image types and qemu machines

[Barros Pena, Belen]

Thanks Darren and Liming.

It sounds like we should keep things as they are, and that we'll need a
screen that gives you options to both run and deploy an image when you
have built for qemu selecting image types ext2 or ext3 and live.

Belen



On 14/06/2012 22:13, "Darren Hart" <dvhart@linux.intel.com> wrote:

>
>
>On 06/14/2012 08:09 AM, Barros Pena, Belen wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> The current Hob allows you to build images for a qemu machine selecting
>> 'live' as your image type. To me (with my pitiful knowledge) this
>>doesn't
>> make much sense: would I want to deploy an image built for a
>> virtualisation environment in a real piece of hardware?
>> 
>> So here goes a question: should we allow Hob users, who are mainly
>>people
>> new to the Yocto project, to select the 'live' image type when building
>> images for qemu machines?
>> 
>
>In my opinion: YES. The reason is that this allows you to test the live
>image format and the boot mechanism on virtualized hardware. This is a
>valuable development tool.
>
>--
>Darren
>
>> This might sound like a silly question, but it has a pretty big impact
>>on
>> the Settings dialog and on the number of variations we need to create
>>for
>> our 'Image details' screen, which appears after the build finishes and
>> displays logical next steps (like run the image or deploy your image to
>> external storage).
>> 
>> Any help with this would be much appreciated.
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> 
>> Belen
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Intel Corporation (UK) Limited
>> Registered No. 1134945 (England)
>> Registered Office: Pipers Way, Swindon SN3 1RJ
>> VAT No: 860 2173 47
>> 
>> This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for
>> the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review or distribution
>> by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended
>> recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies.
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> yocto mailing list
>> yocto@yoctoproject.org
>> https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto
>> 
>
>-- 
>Darren Hart
>Intel Open Source Technology Center
>Yocto Project - Linux Kernel
>
>
>
>

---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Registered No. 1134945 (England)
Registered Office: Pipers Way, Swindon SN3 1RJ
VAT No: 860 2173 47

This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for
the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review or distribution
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Re: live image types and qemu machines

[Barros Pena, Belen]

Sorry, Darren and Liming: I have one more question about this. Liming,
correct me if I am wrong, but you mentioned that the only files that can
be run on the qemu emulator are ext2 and ext3. But Darren's answer seems
to suggest that you can also run hddimg and iso files in the qemu emulator.

Is this correct, or am I getting totally confused?

Thanks!!

Belen

On 15/06/2012 10:33, "Barros Pena, Belen" <belen.barros.pena@intel.com>
wrote:

>Thanks Darren and Liming.
>
>It sounds like we should keep things as they are, and that we'll need a
>screen that gives you options to both run and deploy an image when you
>have built for qemu selecting image types ext2 or ext3 and live.
>
>Belen
>
>
>
>On 14/06/2012 22:13, "Darren Hart" <dvhart@linux.intel.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>On 06/14/2012 08:09 AM, Barros Pena, Belen wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> The current Hob allows you to build images for a qemu machine selecting
>>> 'live' as your image type. To me (with my pitiful knowledge) this
>>>doesn't
>>> make much sense: would I want to deploy an image built for a
>>> virtualisation environment in a real piece of hardware?
>>> 
>>> So here goes a question: should we allow Hob users, who are mainly
>>>people
>>> new to the Yocto project, to select the 'live' image type when building
>>> images for qemu machines?
>>> 
>>
>>In my opinion: YES. The reason is that this allows you to test the live
>>image format and the boot mechanism on virtualized hardware. This is a
>>valuable development tool.
>>
>>--
>>Darren
>>
>>> This might sound like a silly question, but it has a pretty big impact
>>>on
>>> the Settings dialog and on the number of variations we need to create
>>>for
>>> our 'Image details' screen, which appears after the build finishes and
>>> displays logical next steps (like run the image or deploy your image to
>>> external storage).
>>> 
>>> Any help with this would be much appreciated.
>>> 
>>> Thanks!
>>> 
>>> Belen
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Intel Corporation (UK) Limited
>>> Registered No. 1134945 (England)
>>> Registered Office: Pipers Way, Swindon SN3 1RJ
>>> VAT No: 860 2173 47
>>> 
>>> This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for
>>> the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review or distribution
>>> by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended
>>> recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies.
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> yocto mailing list
>>> yocto@yoctoproject.org
>>> https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto
>>> 
>>
>>-- 
>>Darren Hart
>>Intel Open Source Technology Center
>>Yocto Project - Linux Kernel
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>Intel Corporation (UK) Limited
>Registered No. 1134945 (England)
>Registered Office: Pipers Way, Swindon SN3 1RJ
>VAT No: 860 2173 47
>
>This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for
>the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review or distribution
>by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended
>recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies.
>
>_______________________________________________
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Intel Corporation (UK) Limited
Registered No. 1134945 (England)
Registered Office: Pipers Way, Swindon SN3 1RJ
VAT No: 860 2173 47

This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for
the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review or distribution
by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended
recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies.

Re: live image types and qemu machines

[Darren Hart]

On 06/15/2012 06:04 AM, Barros Pena, Belen wrote:
> Sorry, Darren and Liming: I have one more question about this. Liming,
> correct me if I am wrong, but you mentioned that the only files that can
> be run on the qemu emulator are ext2 and ext3. But Darren's answer seems
> to suggest that you can also run hddimg and iso files in the qemu emulator.
> 
> Is this correct, or am I getting totally confused?


With the current implementation of the runqemu command and the current
configuration of the qemu hardware, this is true. However, this will
change in the future as people have run into this and asked for
enhancements to allow it.

--
Darren

> 
> Thanks!!
> 
> Belen
> 
> On 15/06/2012 10:33, "Barros Pena, Belen" <belen.barros.pena@intel.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> Thanks Darren and Liming.
>>
>> It sounds like we should keep things as they are, and that we'll need a
>> screen that gives you options to both run and deploy an image when you
>> have built for qemu selecting image types ext2 or ext3 and live.
>>
>> Belen
>>
>>
>>
>> On 14/06/2012 22:13, "Darren Hart" <dvhart@linux.intel.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 06/14/2012 08:09 AM, Barros Pena, Belen wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> The current Hob allows you to build images for a qemu machine selecting
>>>> 'live' as your image type. To me (with my pitiful knowledge) this
>>>> doesn't
>>>> make much sense: would I want to deploy an image built for a
>>>> virtualisation environment in a real piece of hardware?
>>>>
>>>> So here goes a question: should we allow Hob users, who are mainly
>>>> people
>>>> new to the Yocto project, to select the 'live' image type when building
>>>> images for qemu machines?
>>>>
>>>
>>> In my opinion: YES. The reason is that this allows you to test the live
>>> image format and the boot mechanism on virtualized hardware. This is a
>>> valuable development tool.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Darren
>>>
>>>> This might sound like a silly question, but it has a pretty big impact
>>>> on
>>>> the Settings dialog and on the number of variations we need to create
>>>> for
>>>> our 'Image details' screen, which appears after the build finishes and
>>>> displays logical next steps (like run the image or deploy your image to
>>>> external storage).
>>>>
>>>> Any help with this would be much appreciated.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks!
>>>>
>>>> Belen
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Intel Corporation (UK) Limited
>>>> Registered No. 1134945 (England)
>>>> Registered Office: Pipers Way, Swindon SN3 1RJ
>>>> VAT No: 860 2173 47
>>>>
>>>> This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for
>>>> the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review or distribution
>>>> by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended
>>>> recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> yocto mailing list
>>>> yocto@yoctoproject.org
>>>> https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto
>>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Darren Hart
>>> Intel Open Source Technology Center
>>> Yocto Project - Linux Kernel
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Intel Corporation (UK) Limited
>> Registered No. 1134945 (England)
>> Registered Office: Pipers Way, Swindon SN3 1RJ
>> VAT No: 860 2173 47
>>
>> This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for
>> the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review or distribution
>> by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended
>> recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> yocto mailing list
>> yocto@yoctoproject.org
>> https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto
> 

-- 
Darren Hart
Intel Open Source Technology Center
Yocto Project - Linux Kernel

Re: live image types and qemu machines

[Barros Pena, Belen]

Thanks for clarifying this, Darren. I think right now we need to design
for what the current emulator can do. When things change, we should
remember to update Hob.

Belen

On 15/06/2012 15:31, "Darren Hart" <dvhart@linux.intel.com> wrote:

>
>
>On 06/15/2012 06:04 AM, Barros Pena, Belen wrote:
>> Sorry, Darren and Liming: I have one more question about this. Liming,
>> correct me if I am wrong, but you mentioned that the only files that can
>> be run on the qemu emulator are ext2 and ext3. But Darren's answer seems
>> to suggest that you can also run hddimg and iso files in the qemu
>>emulator.
>> 
>> Is this correct, or am I getting totally confused?
>
>
>With the current implementation of the runqemu command and the current
>configuration of the qemu hardware, this is true. However, this will
>change in the future as people have run into this and asked for
>enhancements to allow it.
>
>--
>Darren
>
>> 
>> Thanks!!
>> 
>> Belen
>> 
>> On 15/06/2012 10:33, "Barros Pena, Belen" <belen.barros.pena@intel.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Thanks Darren and Liming.
>>>
>>> It sounds like we should keep things as they are, and that we'll need a
>>> screen that gives you options to both run and deploy an image when you
>>> have built for qemu selecting image types ext2 or ext3 and live.
>>>
>>> Belen
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 14/06/2012 22:13, "Darren Hart" <dvhart@linux.intel.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 06/14/2012 08:09 AM, Barros Pena, Belen wrote:
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> The current Hob allows you to build images for a qemu machine
>>>>>selecting
>>>>> 'live' as your image type. To me (with my pitiful knowledge) this
>>>>> doesn't
>>>>> make much sense: would I want to deploy an image built for a
>>>>> virtualisation environment in a real piece of hardware?
>>>>>
>>>>> So here goes a question: should we allow Hob users, who are mainly
>>>>> people
>>>>> new to the Yocto project, to select the 'live' image type when
>>>>>building
>>>>> images for qemu machines?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In my opinion: YES. The reason is that this allows you to test the
>>>>live
>>>> image format and the boot mechanism on virtualized hardware. This is a
>>>> valuable development tool.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Darren
>>>>
>>>>> This might sound like a silly question, but it has a pretty big
>>>>>impact
>>>>> on
>>>>> the Settings dialog and on the number of variations we need to create
>>>>> for
>>>>> our 'Image details' screen, which appears after the build finishes
>>>>>and
>>>>> displays logical next steps (like run the image or deploy your image
>>>>>to
>>>>> external storage).
>>>>>
>>>>> Any help with this would be much appreciated.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>
>>>>> Belen
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Intel Corporation (UK) Limited
>>>>> Registered No. 1134945 (England)
>>>>> Registered Office: Pipers Way, Swindon SN3 1RJ
>>>>> VAT No: 860 2173 47
>>>>>
>>>>> This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for
>>>>> the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review or distribution
>>>>> by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended
>>>>> recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies.
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> yocto mailing list
>>>>> yocto@yoctoproject.org
>>>>> https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Darren Hart
>>>> Intel Open Source Technology Center
>>>> Yocto Project - Linux Kernel
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Intel Corporation (UK) Limited
>>> Registered No. 1134945 (England)
>>> Registered Office: Pipers Way, Swindon SN3 1RJ
>>> VAT No: 860 2173 47
>>>
>>> This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for
>>> the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review or distribution
>>> by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended
>>> recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> yocto mailing list
>>> yocto@yoctoproject.org
>>> https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto
>> 
>
>-- 
>Darren Hart
>Intel Open Source Technology Center
>Yocto Project - Linux Kernel
>
>

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Intel Corporation (UK) Limited
Registered No. 1134945 (England)
Registered Office: Pipers Way, Swindon SN3 1RJ
VAT No: 860 2173 47

This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for
the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review or distribution
by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended
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Re: live image types and qemu machines

[Darren Hart]

On 06/15/2012 07:39 AM, Barros Pena, Belen wrote:
> Thanks for clarifying this, Darren. I think right now we need to design
> for what the current emulator can do. When things change, we should
> remember to update Hob.

You suggested that this had a significant impact on the dialog for
selecting images. I thought knowing that qemu+live should/will be a
support situation would prevent you having to redesign the dialog later,
as well as other design decisions that might stem from the assumption
that live images were not supported under emulation.

--
Darren

> 
> Belen
> 
> On 15/06/2012 15:31, "Darren Hart" <dvhart@linux.intel.com> wrote:
> 
>>
>>
>> On 06/15/2012 06:04 AM, Barros Pena, Belen wrote:
>>> Sorry, Darren and Liming: I have one more question about this. Liming,
>>> correct me if I am wrong, but you mentioned that the only files that can
>>> be run on the qemu emulator are ext2 and ext3. But Darren's answer seems
>>> to suggest that you can also run hddimg and iso files in the qemu
>>> emulator.
>>>
>>> Is this correct, or am I getting totally confused?
>>
>>
>> With the current implementation of the runqemu command and the current
>> configuration of the qemu hardware, this is true. However, this will
>> change in the future as people have run into this and asked for
>> enhancements to allow it.
>>
>> --
>> Darren
>>
>>>
>>> Thanks!!
>>>
>>> Belen
>>>
>>> On 15/06/2012 10:33, "Barros Pena, Belen" <belen.barros.pena@intel.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks Darren and Liming.
>>>>
>>>> It sounds like we should keep things as they are, and that we'll need a
>>>> screen that gives you options to both run and deploy an image when you
>>>> have built for qemu selecting image types ext2 or ext3 and live.
>>>>
>>>> Belen
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 14/06/2012 22:13, "Darren Hart" <dvhart@linux.intel.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 06/14/2012 08:09 AM, Barros Pena, Belen wrote:
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The current Hob allows you to build images for a qemu machine
>>>>>> selecting
>>>>>> 'live' as your image type. To me (with my pitiful knowledge) this
>>>>>> doesn't
>>>>>> make much sense: would I want to deploy an image built for a
>>>>>> virtualisation environment in a real piece of hardware?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So here goes a question: should we allow Hob users, who are mainly
>>>>>> people
>>>>>> new to the Yocto project, to select the 'live' image type when
>>>>>> building
>>>>>> images for qemu machines?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> In my opinion: YES. The reason is that this allows you to test the
>>>>> live
>>>>> image format and the boot mechanism on virtualized hardware. This is a
>>>>> valuable development tool.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Darren
>>>>>
>>>>>> This might sound like a silly question, but it has a pretty big
>>>>>> impact
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> the Settings dialog and on the number of variations we need to create
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> our 'Image details' screen, which appears after the build finishes
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> displays logical next steps (like run the image or deploy your image
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> external storage).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any help with this would be much appreciated.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Belen
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Intel Corporation (UK) Limited
>>>>>> Registered No. 1134945 (England)
>>>>>> Registered Office: Pipers Way, Swindon SN3 1RJ
>>>>>> VAT No: 860 2173 47
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for
>>>>>> the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review or distribution
>>>>>> by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended
>>>>>> recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> yocto mailing list
>>>>>> yocto@yoctoproject.org
>>>>>> https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Darren Hart
>>>>> Intel Open Source Technology Center
>>>>> Yocto Project - Linux Kernel
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Intel Corporation (UK) Limited
>>>> Registered No. 1134945 (England)
>>>> Registered Office: Pipers Way, Swindon SN3 1RJ
>>>> VAT No: 860 2173 47
>>>>
>>>> This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for
>>>> the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review or distribution
>>>> by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended
>>>> recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> yocto mailing list
>>>> yocto@yoctoproject.org
>>>> https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto
>>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Darren Hart
>> Intel Open Source Technology Center
>> Yocto Project - Linux Kernel
>>
>>
> 

-- 
Darren Hart
Intel Open Source Technology Center
Yocto Project - Linux Kernel

Re: live image types and qemu machines

[Barros Pena, Belen]

I'll try to explain:

Your answer to my question was that we should allow outputting live images
when building qemu machines because it could be useful to run those live
images in the emulator, but the emulator is not currently capable of
running live images (although it probably will in the future).

If I have understood correctly (and this is a big if), it probably makes
no sense to allow people to select live image types when building qemu
images because right now they can do nothing with them: I guess they
cannot deploy them to hardware, and they cannot run them in the emulator
either. I wouldn't allow them to combine qemu and live images on the basis
that this might change in the future.

The fact that the emulator cannot run live images also impacts the next
steps we provide once the image has been built. If we allowed Hob users to
build for a qemu machine selecting ext2 and iso as the image types:

- if the emulator could run the iso image we would need to ask those users
which image they would like to run (iso or ext2)
- if the emulator could not run the iso image, we could run the emulator
without asking them questions because the only file we could run is the
ext2

Sorry for the longwinded answer: I hope it makes sense.

Having said all this, I am still very much struggling to understand the
relationship between machines, base images and image types. This
relationship should inform the way we design the Hob interface. In the
existing settings dialog, you select image types independently of the
machine and base image you are building. Your selections will apply to any
machine-base image combinations you can create within Hob. I am still
trying to work out if this design is appropriate.

On one side, I hear there are file types that make no sense for certain
machines. The main example I could think of was live images and qemu
machines (hence my question). On the other side, Richard spoke about using
the IMAGE_FSTYPES values as default values for each base image, which
tells me there must also be a relationship between base images and image
types.

If anybody would like to volunteer to help me understand how machines,
base images and image types relate to each other, please let me know. Any
help would be much appreciated :)

Thanks!

Belen

On 15/06/2012 15:46, "Darren Hart" <dvhart@linux.intel.com> wrote:

>On 06/15/2012 07:39 AM, Barros Pena, Belen wrote:
>> Thanks for clarifying this, Darren. I think right now we need to design
>> for what the current emulator can do. When things change, we should
>> remember to update Hob.
>
>You suggested that this had a significant impact on the dialog for
>selecting images. I thought knowing that qemu+live should/will be a
>support situation would prevent you having to redesign the dialog later,
>as well as other design decisions that might stem from the assumption
>that live images were not supported under emulation.
>
>--
>Darren
>
>> 
>> Belen
>> 
>> On 15/06/2012 15:31, "Darren Hart" <dvhart@linux.intel.com> wrote:
>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> On 06/15/2012 06:04 AM, Barros Pena, Belen wrote:
>>>> Sorry, Darren and Liming: I have one more question about this. Liming,
>>>> correct me if I am wrong, but you mentioned that the only files that
>>>>can
>>>> be run on the qemu emulator are ext2 and ext3. But Darren's answer
>>>>seems
>>>> to suggest that you can also run hddimg and iso files in the qemu
>>>> emulator.
>>>>
>>>> Is this correct, or am I getting totally confused?
>>>
>>>
>>> With the current implementation of the runqemu command and the current
>>> configuration of the qemu hardware, this is true. However, this will
>>> change in the future as people have run into this and asked for
>>> enhancements to allow it.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Darren
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks!!
>>>>
>>>> Belen
>>>>
>>>> On 15/06/2012 10:33, "Barros Pena, Belen"
>>>><belen.barros.pena@intel.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks Darren and Liming.
>>>>>
>>>>> It sounds like we should keep things as they are, and that we'll
>>>>>need a
>>>>> screen that gives you options to both run and deploy an image when
>>>>>you
>>>>> have built for qemu selecting image types ext2 or ext3 and live.
>>>>>
>>>>> Belen
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 14/06/2012 22:13, "Darren Hart" <dvhart@linux.intel.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 06/14/2012 08:09 AM, Barros Pena, Belen wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The current Hob allows you to build images for a qemu machine
>>>>>>> selecting
>>>>>>> 'live' as your image type. To me (with my pitiful knowledge) this
>>>>>>> doesn't
>>>>>>> make much sense: would I want to deploy an image built for a
>>>>>>> virtualisation environment in a real piece of hardware?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So here goes a question: should we allow Hob users, who are mainly
>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>> new to the Yocto project, to select the 'live' image type when
>>>>>>> building
>>>>>>> images for qemu machines?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In my opinion: YES. The reason is that this allows you to test the
>>>>>> live
>>>>>> image format and the boot mechanism on virtualized hardware. This
>>>>>>is a
>>>>>> valuable development tool.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Darren
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This might sound like a silly question, but it has a pretty big
>>>>>>> impact
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> the Settings dialog and on the number of variations we need to
>>>>>>>create
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> our 'Image details' screen, which appears after the build finishes
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> displays logical next steps (like run the image or deploy your
>>>>>>>image
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> external storage).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Any help with this would be much appreciated.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Belen
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>-
>>>>>>> Intel Corporation (UK) Limited
>>>>>>> Registered No. 1134945 (England)
>>>>>>> Registered Office: Pipers Way, Swindon SN3 1RJ
>>>>>>> VAT No: 860 2173 47
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material
>>>>>>>for
>>>>>>> the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review or
>>>>>>>distribution
>>>>>>> by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended
>>>>>>> recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> yocto mailing list
>>>>>>> yocto@yoctoproject.org
>>>>>>> https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> Darren Hart
>>>>>> Intel Open Source Technology Center
>>>>>> Yocto Project - Linux Kernel
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Intel Corporation (UK) Limited
>>>>> Registered No. 1134945 (England)
>>>>> Registered Office: Pipers Way, Swindon SN3 1RJ
>>>>> VAT No: 860 2173 47
>>>>>
>>>>> This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for
>>>>> the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review or distribution
>>>>> by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended
>>>>> recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies.
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> yocto mailing list
>>>>> yocto@yoctoproject.org
>>>>> https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto
>>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Darren Hart
>>> Intel Open Source Technology Center
>>> Yocto Project - Linux Kernel
>>>
>>>
>> 
>
>-- 
>Darren Hart
>Intel Open Source Technology Center
>Yocto Project - Linux Kernel
>
>

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Intel Corporation (UK) Limited
Registered No. 1134945 (England)
Registered Office: Pipers Way, Swindon SN3 1RJ
VAT No: 860 2173 47

This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for
the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review or distribution
by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended
recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies.

Re: live image types and qemu machines

[Darren Hart]

On 06/15/2012 08:56 AM, Barros Pena, Belen wrote:
> I'll try to explain:
> 
> Your answer to my question was that we should allow outputting live images
> when building qemu machines because it could be useful to run those live
> images in the emulator, but the emulator is not currently capable of
> running live images (although it probably will in the future).
> 
> If I have understood correctly (and this is a big if), it probably makes
> no sense to allow people to select live image types when building qemu
> images because right now they can do nothing with them: I guess they
> cannot deploy them to hardware, and they cannot run them in the emulator
> either. I wouldn't allow them to combine qemu and live images on the basis
> that this might change in the future.
> 
> The fact that the emulator cannot run live images also impacts the next
> steps we provide once the image has been built. If we allowed Hob users to
> build for a qemu machine selecting ext2 and iso as the image types:
> 
> - if the emulator could run the iso image we would need to ask those users
> which image they would like to run (iso or ext2)
> - if the emulator could not run the iso image, we could run the emulator
> without asking them questions because the only file we could run is the
> ext2
> 
> Sorry for the longwinded answer: I hope it makes sense.
> 
> Having said all this, I am still very much struggling to understand the
> relationship between machines, base images and image types. This
> relationship should inform the way we design the Hob interface. In the
> existing settings dialog, you select image types independently of the
> machine and base image you are building. Your selections will apply to any
> machine-base image combinations you can create within Hob. I am still
> trying to work out if this design is appropriate.
> 
> On one side, I hear there are file types that make no sense for certain
> machines. The main example I could think of was live images and qemu
> machines (hence my question). On the other side, Richard spoke about using
> the IMAGE_FSTYPES values as default values for each base image, which
> tells me there must also be a relationship between base images and image
> types.
> 
> If anybody would like to volunteer to help me understand how machines,
> base images and image types relate to each other, please let me know. Any
> help would be much appreciated :)

OK, let me take a stab at this.

base image: The image recipe to build, this defines the content of the
image such as which packages are installed. For example:
  core-image-minimal
  core-image-base
  core-image-sato

image type: The format of the resulting image. All of the base images
can be built as any of the image types, but the distro and machine
definitions define which are allowed for the specific machine.
  ext2
  ext3
  tar.gz
  cpio.gz
  hddimg
  vmdk

machine: The definition of the hardware (or emulator) we are building
the image for. This defines things like architecture, compiler options,
as well as adding dependencies on packages which are required or
recommended, this extends the list of packages defined in the image
recipe. For example, core-image-sato will provide the EMGD graphics
drivers for the crownbay machine and the i915 drivers for the n450. The
machine definition also modifies the IMAGE_FSTYPES list as appropriate
for the hardware.

distro: The distro definition, such as poky, poky-tiny, angstrom, etc.
sets various policies about how things are built. This can include
package format (rpm, deb. etc), image fstypes, and preferred packages
for various configurable features like the kernel, C library, init
system, etc. This also impacts the contents and format of the resulting
image.

Richard's suggestion to build the dialog from the IMAGE_FSTYPES makes
sense as it will allow you to list ONLY the image types that are
buildable for the selected distro and machine.

Does that help?

--
Darren


> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Belen
> 
> On 15/06/2012 15:46, "Darren Hart" <dvhart@linux.intel.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 06/15/2012 07:39 AM, Barros Pena, Belen wrote:
>>> Thanks for clarifying this, Darren. I think right now we need to design
>>> for what the current emulator can do. When things change, we should
>>> remember to update Hob.
>>
>> You suggested that this had a significant impact on the dialog for
>> selecting images. I thought knowing that qemu+live should/will be a
>> support situation would prevent you having to redesign the dialog later,
>> as well as other design decisions that might stem from the assumption
>> that live images were not supported under emulation.
>>
>> --
>> Darren
>>
>>>
>>> Belen
>>>
>>> On 15/06/2012 15:31, "Darren Hart" <dvhart@linux.intel.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 06/15/2012 06:04 AM, Barros Pena, Belen wrote:
>>>>> Sorry, Darren and Liming: I have one more question about this. Liming,
>>>>> correct me if I am wrong, but you mentioned that the only files that
>>>>> can
>>>>> be run on the qemu emulator are ext2 and ext3. But Darren's answer
>>>>> seems
>>>>> to suggest that you can also run hddimg and iso files in the qemu
>>>>> emulator.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is this correct, or am I getting totally confused?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> With the current implementation of the runqemu command and the current
>>>> configuration of the qemu hardware, this is true. However, this will
>>>> change in the future as people have run into this and asked for
>>>> enhancements to allow it.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Darren
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks!!
>>>>>
>>>>> Belen
>>>>>
>>>>> On 15/06/2012 10:33, "Barros Pena, Belen"
>>>>> <belen.barros.pena@intel.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks Darren and Liming.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It sounds like we should keep things as they are, and that we'll
>>>>>> need a
>>>>>> screen that gives you options to both run and deploy an image when
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> have built for qemu selecting image types ext2 or ext3 and live.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Belen
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 14/06/2012 22:13, "Darren Hart" <dvhart@linux.intel.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 06/14/2012 08:09 AM, Barros Pena, Belen wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The current Hob allows you to build images for a qemu machine
>>>>>>>> selecting
>>>>>>>> 'live' as your image type. To me (with my pitiful knowledge) this
>>>>>>>> doesn't
>>>>>>>> make much sense: would I want to deploy an image built for a
>>>>>>>> virtualisation environment in a real piece of hardware?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So here goes a question: should we allow Hob users, who are mainly
>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>> new to the Yocto project, to select the 'live' image type when
>>>>>>>> building
>>>>>>>> images for qemu machines?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In my opinion: YES. The reason is that this allows you to test the
>>>>>>> live
>>>>>>> image format and the boot mechanism on virtualized hardware. This
>>>>>>> is a
>>>>>>> valuable development tool.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Darren
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This might sound like a silly question, but it has a pretty big
>>>>>>>> impact
>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>> the Settings dialog and on the number of variations we need to
>>>>>>>> create
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> our 'Image details' screen, which appears after the build finishes
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> displays logical next steps (like run the image or deploy your
>>>>>>>> image
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> external storage).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Any help with this would be much appreciated.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Belen
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>> Intel Corporation (UK) Limited
>>>>>>>> Registered No. 1134945 (England)
>>>>>>>> Registered Office: Pipers Way, Swindon SN3 1RJ
>>>>>>>> VAT No: 860 2173 47
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review or
>>>>>>>> distribution
>>>>>>>> by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended
>>>>>>>> recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> yocto mailing list
>>>>>>>> yocto@yoctoproject.org
>>>>>>>> https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>> Darren Hart
>>>>>>> Intel Open Source Technology Center
>>>>>>> Yocto Project - Linux Kernel
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Intel Corporation (UK) Limited
>>>>>> Registered No. 1134945 (England)
>>>>>> Registered Office: Pipers Way, Swindon SN3 1RJ
>>>>>> VAT No: 860 2173 47
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for
>>>>>> the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review or distribution
>>>>>> by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended
>>>>>> recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> yocto mailing list
>>>>>> yocto@yoctoproject.org
>>>>>> https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Darren Hart
>>>> Intel Open Source Technology Center
>>>> Yocto Project - Linux Kernel
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Darren Hart
>> Intel Open Source Technology Center
>> Yocto Project - Linux Kernel
>>
>>
> 

-- 
Darren Hart
Intel Open Source Technology Center
Yocto Project - Linux Kernel

Re: live image types and qemu machines

[Barros Pena, Belen]

It definitely helps: thanks!

From what you say the following selections impact the image types:
machine, base image and distro.

I need to give this a bit of thought. I might be back with even more
questions (I hope that's ok).

Have a great weekend.

Belen

On 15/06/2012 17:16, "Darren Hart" <dvhart@linux.intel.com> wrote:

>
>
>On 06/15/2012 08:56 AM, Barros Pena, Belen wrote:
>> I'll try to explain:
>> 
>> Your answer to my question was that we should allow outputting live
>>images
>> when building qemu machines because it could be useful to run those live
>> images in the emulator, but the emulator is not currently capable of
>> running live images (although it probably will in the future).
>> 
>> If I have understood correctly (and this is a big if), it probably makes
>> no sense to allow people to select live image types when building qemu
>> images because right now they can do nothing with them: I guess they
>> cannot deploy them to hardware, and they cannot run them in the emulator
>> either. I wouldn't allow them to combine qemu and live images on the
>>basis
>> that this might change in the future.
>> 
>> The fact that the emulator cannot run live images also impacts the next
>> steps we provide once the image has been built. If we allowed Hob users
>>to
>> build for a qemu machine selecting ext2 and iso as the image types:
>> 
>> - if the emulator could run the iso image we would need to ask those
>>users
>> which image they would like to run (iso or ext2)
>> - if the emulator could not run the iso image, we could run the emulator
>> without asking them questions because the only file we could run is the
>> ext2
>> 
>> Sorry for the longwinded answer: I hope it makes sense.
>> 
>> Having said all this, I am still very much struggling to understand the
>> relationship between machines, base images and image types. This
>> relationship should inform the way we design the Hob interface. In the
>> existing settings dialog, you select image types independently of the
>> machine and base image you are building. Your selections will apply to
>>any
>> machine-base image combinations you can create within Hob. I am still
>> trying to work out if this design is appropriate.
>> 
>> On one side, I hear there are file types that make no sense for certain
>> machines. The main example I could think of was live images and qemu
>> machines (hence my question). On the other side, Richard spoke about
>>using
>> the IMAGE_FSTYPES values as default values for each base image, which
>> tells me there must also be a relationship between base images and image
>> types.
>> 
>> If anybody would like to volunteer to help me understand how machines,
>> base images and image types relate to each other, please let me know.
>>Any
>> help would be much appreciated :)
>
>OK, let me take a stab at this.
>
>base image: The image recipe to build, this defines the content of the
>image such as which packages are installed. For example:
>  core-image-minimal
>  core-image-base
>  core-image-sato
>
>image type: The format of the resulting image. All of the base images
>can be built as any of the image types, but the distro and machine
>definitions define which are allowed for the specific machine.
>  ext2
>  ext3
>  tar.gz
>  cpio.gz
>  hddimg
>  vmdk
>
>machine: The definition of the hardware (or emulator) we are building
>the image for. This defines things like architecture, compiler options,
>as well as adding dependencies on packages which are required or
>recommended, this extends the list of packages defined in the image
>recipe. For example, core-image-sato will provide the EMGD graphics
>drivers for the crownbay machine and the i915 drivers for the n450. The
>machine definition also modifies the IMAGE_FSTYPES list as appropriate
>for the hardware.
>
>distro: The distro definition, such as poky, poky-tiny, angstrom, etc.
>sets various policies about how things are built. This can include
>package format (rpm, deb. etc), image fstypes, and preferred packages
>for various configurable features like the kernel, C library, init
>system, etc. This also impacts the contents and format of the resulting
>image.
>
>Richard's suggestion to build the dialog from the IMAGE_FSTYPES makes
>sense as it will allow you to list ONLY the image types that are
>buildable for the selected distro and machine.
>
>Does that help?
>
>--
>Darren
>
>
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> 
>> Belen
>> 
>> On 15/06/2012 15:46, "Darren Hart" <dvhart@linux.intel.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 06/15/2012 07:39 AM, Barros Pena, Belen wrote:
>>>> Thanks for clarifying this, Darren. I think right now we need to
>>>>design
>>>> for what the current emulator can do. When things change, we should
>>>> remember to update Hob.
>>>
>>> You suggested that this had a significant impact on the dialog for
>>> selecting images. I thought knowing that qemu+live should/will be a
>>> support situation would prevent you having to redesign the dialog
>>>later,
>>> as well as other design decisions that might stem from the assumption
>>> that live images were not supported under emulation.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Darren
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Belen
>>>>
>>>> On 15/06/2012 15:31, "Darren Hart" <dvhart@linux.intel.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 06/15/2012 06:04 AM, Barros Pena, Belen wrote:
>>>>>> Sorry, Darren and Liming: I have one more question about this.
>>>>>>Liming,
>>>>>> correct me if I am wrong, but you mentioned that the only files that
>>>>>> can
>>>>>> be run on the qemu emulator are ext2 and ext3. But Darren's answer
>>>>>> seems
>>>>>> to suggest that you can also run hddimg and iso files in the qemu
>>>>>> emulator.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is this correct, or am I getting totally confused?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> With the current implementation of the runqemu command and the
>>>>>current
>>>>> configuration of the qemu hardware, this is true. However, this will
>>>>> change in the future as people have run into this and asked for
>>>>> enhancements to allow it.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Darren
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Belen
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 15/06/2012 10:33, "Barros Pena, Belen"
>>>>>> <belen.barros.pena@intel.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks Darren and Liming.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It sounds like we should keep things as they are, and that we'll
>>>>>>> need a
>>>>>>> screen that gives you options to both run and deploy an image when
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> have built for qemu selecting image types ext2 or ext3 and live.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Belen
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 14/06/2012 22:13, "Darren Hart" <dvhart@linux.intel.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 06/14/2012 08:09 AM, Barros Pena, Belen wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The current Hob allows you to build images for a qemu machine
>>>>>>>>> selecting
>>>>>>>>> 'live' as your image type. To me (with my pitiful knowledge) this
>>>>>>>>> doesn't
>>>>>>>>> make much sense: would I want to deploy an image built for a
>>>>>>>>> virtualisation environment in a real piece of hardware?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So here goes a question: should we allow Hob users, who are
>>>>>>>>>mainly
>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>> new to the Yocto project, to select the 'live' image type when
>>>>>>>>> building
>>>>>>>>> images for qemu machines?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In my opinion: YES. The reason is that this allows you to test the
>>>>>>>> live
>>>>>>>> image format and the boot mechanism on virtualized hardware. This
>>>>>>>> is a
>>>>>>>> valuable development tool.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Darren
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This might sound like a silly question, but it has a pretty big
>>>>>>>>> impact
>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>> the Settings dialog and on the number of variations we need to
>>>>>>>>> create
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> our 'Image details' screen, which appears after the build
>>>>>>>>>finishes
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> displays logical next steps (like run the image or deploy your
>>>>>>>>> image
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> external storage).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Any help with this would be much appreciated.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Belen
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>>> Intel Corporation (UK) Limited
>>>>>>>>> Registered No. 1134945 (England)
>>>>>>>>> Registered Office: Pipers Way, Swindon SN3 1RJ
>>>>>>>>> VAT No: 860 2173 47
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review or
>>>>>>>>> distribution
>>>>>>>>> by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended
>>>>>>>>> recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> yocto mailing list
>>>>>>>>> yocto@yoctoproject.org
>>>>>>>>> https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>> Darren Hart
>>>>>>>> Intel Open Source Technology Center
>>>>>>>> Yocto Project - Linux Kernel
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>-
>>>>>>> Intel Corporation (UK) Limited
>>>>>>> Registered No. 1134945 (England)
>>>>>>> Registered Office: Pipers Way, Swindon SN3 1RJ
>>>>>>> VAT No: 860 2173 47
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material
>>>>>>>for
>>>>>>> the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review or
>>>>>>>distribution
>>>>>>> by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended
>>>>>>> recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> yocto mailing list
>>>>>>> yocto@yoctoproject.org
>>>>>>> https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Darren Hart
>>>>> Intel Open Source Technology Center
>>>>> Yocto Project - Linux Kernel
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Darren Hart
>>> Intel Open Source Technology Center
>>> Yocto Project - Linux Kernel
>>>
>>>
>> 
>
>-- 
>Darren Hart
>Intel Open Source Technology Center
>Yocto Project - Linux Kernel
>
>

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Intel Corporation (UK) Limited
Registered No. 1134945 (England)
Registered Office: Pipers Way, Swindon SN3 1RJ
VAT No: 860 2173 47

This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for
the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review or distribution
by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended
recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies.

Re: live image types and qemu machines

[Darren Hart]

On 06/15/2012 09:29 AM, Barros Pena, Belen wrote:
> It definitely helps: thanks!
> 
> From what you say the following selections impact the image types:
> machine, base image and distro.
> 
> I need to give this a bit of thought. I might be back with even more
> questions (I hope that's ok).

Of course :-)

Note that IMAGE_FSTYPES is just a variable like anything else in
bitbake, and can be overriden, appended to, reset, by a number of
mechanisms. The ones I mentioned are the most common, and I believe the
only ones relevant to this discussion.

--
Darren

> 
> Have a great weekend.
> 
> Belen
> 
> On 15/06/2012 17:16, "Darren Hart" <dvhart@linux.intel.com> wrote:
> 
>>
>>
>> On 06/15/2012 08:56 AM, Barros Pena, Belen wrote:
>>> I'll try to explain:
>>>
>>> Your answer to my question was that we should allow outputting live
>>> images
>>> when building qemu machines because it could be useful to run those live
>>> images in the emulator, but the emulator is not currently capable of
>>> running live images (although it probably will in the future).
>>>
>>> If I have understood correctly (and this is a big if), it probably makes
>>> no sense to allow people to select live image types when building qemu
>>> images because right now they can do nothing with them: I guess they
>>> cannot deploy them to hardware, and they cannot run them in the emulator
>>> either. I wouldn't allow them to combine qemu and live images on the
>>> basis
>>> that this might change in the future.
>>>
>>> The fact that the emulator cannot run live images also impacts the next
>>> steps we provide once the image has been built. If we allowed Hob users
>>> to
>>> build for a qemu machine selecting ext2 and iso as the image types:
>>>
>>> - if the emulator could run the iso image we would need to ask those
>>> users
>>> which image they would like to run (iso or ext2)
>>> - if the emulator could not run the iso image, we could run the emulator
>>> without asking them questions because the only file we could run is the
>>> ext2
>>>
>>> Sorry for the longwinded answer: I hope it makes sense.
>>>
>>> Having said all this, I am still very much struggling to understand the
>>> relationship between machines, base images and image types. This
>>> relationship should inform the way we design the Hob interface. In the
>>> existing settings dialog, you select image types independently of the
>>> machine and base image you are building. Your selections will apply to
>>> any
>>> machine-base image combinations you can create within Hob. I am still
>>> trying to work out if this design is appropriate.
>>>
>>> On one side, I hear there are file types that make no sense for certain
>>> machines. The main example I could think of was live images and qemu
>>> machines (hence my question). On the other side, Richard spoke about
>>> using
>>> the IMAGE_FSTYPES values as default values for each base image, which
>>> tells me there must also be a relationship between base images and image
>>> types.
>>>
>>> If anybody would like to volunteer to help me understand how machines,
>>> base images and image types relate to each other, please let me know.
>>> Any
>>> help would be much appreciated :)
>>
>> OK, let me take a stab at this.
>>
>> base image: The image recipe to build, this defines the content of the
>> image such as which packages are installed. For example:
>>  core-image-minimal
>>  core-image-base
>>  core-image-sato
>>
>> image type: The format of the resulting image. All of the base images
>> can be built as any of the image types, but the distro and machine
>> definitions define which are allowed for the specific machine.
>>  ext2
>>  ext3
>>  tar.gz
>>  cpio.gz
>>  hddimg
>>  vmdk
>>
>> machine: The definition of the hardware (or emulator) we are building
>> the image for. This defines things like architecture, compiler options,
>> as well as adding dependencies on packages which are required or
>> recommended, this extends the list of packages defined in the image
>> recipe. For example, core-image-sato will provide the EMGD graphics
>> drivers for the crownbay machine and the i915 drivers for the n450. The
>> machine definition also modifies the IMAGE_FSTYPES list as appropriate
>> for the hardware.
>>
>> distro: The distro definition, such as poky, poky-tiny, angstrom, etc.
>> sets various policies about how things are built. This can include
>> package format (rpm, deb. etc), image fstypes, and preferred packages
>> for various configurable features like the kernel, C library, init
>> system, etc. This also impacts the contents and format of the resulting
>> image.
>>
>> Richard's suggestion to build the dialog from the IMAGE_FSTYPES makes
>> sense as it will allow you to list ONLY the image types that are
>> buildable for the selected distro and machine.
>>
>> Does that help?
>>
>> --
>> Darren
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> Belen
>>>
>>> On 15/06/2012 15:46, "Darren Hart" <dvhart@linux.intel.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 06/15/2012 07:39 AM, Barros Pena, Belen wrote:
>>>>> Thanks for clarifying this, Darren. I think right now we need to
>>>>> design
>>>>> for what the current emulator can do. When things change, we should
>>>>> remember to update Hob.
>>>>
>>>> You suggested that this had a significant impact on the dialog for
>>>> selecting images. I thought knowing that qemu+live should/will be a
>>>> support situation would prevent you having to redesign the dialog
>>>> later,
>>>> as well as other design decisions that might stem from the assumption
>>>> that live images were not supported under emulation.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Darren
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Belen
>>>>>
>>>>> On 15/06/2012 15:31, "Darren Hart" <dvhart@linux.intel.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 06/15/2012 06:04 AM, Barros Pena, Belen wrote:
>>>>>>> Sorry, Darren and Liming: I have one more question about this.
>>>>>>> Liming,
>>>>>>> correct me if I am wrong, but you mentioned that the only files that
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>> be run on the qemu emulator are ext2 and ext3. But Darren's answer
>>>>>>> seems
>>>>>>> to suggest that you can also run hddimg and iso files in the qemu
>>>>>>> emulator.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is this correct, or am I getting totally confused?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> With the current implementation of the runqemu command and the
>>>>>> current
>>>>>> configuration of the qemu hardware, this is true. However, this will
>>>>>> change in the future as people have run into this and asked for
>>>>>> enhancements to allow it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Darren
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks!!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Belen
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 15/06/2012 10:33, "Barros Pena, Belen"
>>>>>>> <belen.barros.pena@intel.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks Darren and Liming.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It sounds like we should keep things as they are, and that we'll
>>>>>>>> need a
>>>>>>>> screen that gives you options to both run and deploy an image when
>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>> have built for qemu selecting image types ext2 or ext3 and live.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Belen
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 14/06/2012 22:13, "Darren Hart" <dvhart@linux.intel.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 06/14/2012 08:09 AM, Barros Pena, Belen wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The current Hob allows you to build images for a qemu machine
>>>>>>>>>> selecting
>>>>>>>>>> 'live' as your image type. To me (with my pitiful knowledge) this
>>>>>>>>>> doesn't
>>>>>>>>>> make much sense: would I want to deploy an image built for a
>>>>>>>>>> virtualisation environment in a real piece of hardware?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So here goes a question: should we allow Hob users, who are
>>>>>>>>>> mainly
>>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>> new to the Yocto project, to select the 'live' image type when
>>>>>>>>>> building
>>>>>>>>>> images for qemu machines?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In my opinion: YES. The reason is that this allows you to test the
>>>>>>>>> live
>>>>>>>>> image format and the boot mechanism on virtualized hardware. This
>>>>>>>>> is a
>>>>>>>>> valuable development tool.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Darren
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This might sound like a silly question, but it has a pretty big
>>>>>>>>>> impact
>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>> the Settings dialog and on the number of variations we need to
>>>>>>>>>> create
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> our 'Image details' screen, which appears after the build
>>>>>>>>>> finishes
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> displays logical next steps (like run the image or deploy your
>>>>>>>>>> image
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> external storage).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Any help with this would be much appreciated.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Belen
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>>>> Intel Corporation (UK) Limited
>>>>>>>>>> Registered No. 1134945 (England)
>>>>>>>>>> Registered Office: Pipers Way, Swindon SN3 1RJ
>>>>>>>>>> VAT No: 860 2173 47
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review or
>>>>>>>>>> distribution
>>>>>>>>>> by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended
>>>>>>>>>> recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> yocto mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> yocto@yoctoproject.org
>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>>> Darren Hart
>>>>>>>>> Intel Open Source Technology Center
>>>>>>>>> Yocto Project - Linux Kernel
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>> Intel Corporation (UK) Limited
>>>>>>>> Registered No. 1134945 (England)
>>>>>>>> Registered Office: Pipers Way, Swindon SN3 1RJ
>>>>>>>> VAT No: 860 2173 47
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review or
>>>>>>>> distribution
>>>>>>>> by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended
>>>>>>>> recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> yocto mailing list
>>>>>>>> yocto@yoctoproject.org
>>>>>>>> https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> Darren Hart
>>>>>> Intel Open Source Technology Center
>>>>>> Yocto Project - Linux Kernel
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Darren Hart
>>>> Intel Open Source Technology Center
>>>> Yocto Project - Linux Kernel
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Darren Hart
>> Intel Open Source Technology Center
>> Yocto Project - Linux Kernel
>>
>>
> 

-- 
Darren Hart
Intel Open Source Technology Center
Yocto Project - Linux Kernel

Re: live image types and qemu machines

[An, LimingX L]

Hi Belen,

I only know there have two variables we get from the bitbake to charge which image is runnable, now.
"RUNNABLE_IMAGE_TYPES" = ext3, ext2, "RUNNABLE_MACHINE_PATTERNS" = qemu.

Thanks!
--
Liming
-----Original Message-----
From: Barros Pena, Belen 
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2012 11:09 PM
To: yocto@yoctoproject.org; An, LimingX L
Subject: live image types and qemu machines

Hi all,

The current Hob allows you to build images for a qemu machine selecting 'live' as your image type. To me (with my pitiful knowledge) this doesn't make much sense: would I want to deploy an image built for a virtualisation environment in a real piece of hardware?

So here goes a question: should we allow Hob users, who are mainly people new to the Yocto project, to select the 'live' image type when building images for qemu machines?

This might sound like a silly question, but it has a pretty big impact on the Settings dialog and on the number of variations we need to create for our 'Image details' screen, which appears after the build finishes and displays logical next steps (like run the image or deploy your image to external storage).

Any help with this would be much appreciated.

Thanks!

Belen