Re: Mandrake 8.1??

Re: Mandrake 8.1??

[Heimo Claasen]

That looks to me as if the GUI (KDE in this case) starts up with the
lowest resolution, say 640x480 - does cycling through screen
resolutions (with [CTRL]-[ALT]-[+]) give you any other/larger screen
dimension ? (The pop-up windows should be significantly smaller then,
and be situated all inside the visible window on the screen.)

If not, it could be a matter of the very X server configuration.
Try to re-configure X - take care to start with the lowest colour
depth/range (8 bit, 256 colours) in order to get the largest possible
band of resolutions accepted; it's easier to do that in the Mandrake
setup (or with Xconfigurator if it's there) than with tinkering with the
configuration files directly.

The Mandrake X-install routine is in fact quite good, gives immediate
feedback (with the "Test now" step), allowing to variate each value
entered immediately and to try out if it works.

(It's a drag with Debian, where you get the [typically wrong] result
only after the whole installation procedure and after starting X; or
rather, after failing to get somewhere then.  And in addition, there are
real nuisances built-in there: the value to enter for video RAM _must_
be given wrong in order to get a right result; or, the [screen]
"modules" default would most certainly result in failure, while there's
not the least meaningful indication which choices would be appropriate.
Sheer horror this, can make you waste days on end without getting the
specific combo of card/monitor to work ever in its best way.  The Mdk
procedure is way ahead.)

// Heimo Claasen //<revobild at revobild dot net>// Brussels 2003-03-08
The WebPlace of ReRead - and much to read  ==>  http://www.revobild.net

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Re: Mandrake 8.1??

[Ray Olszewski]

At , Heimo Claasen wrote:
[...]
>(It's a drag with Debian, where you get the [typically wrong] result
>only after the whole installation procedure and after starting X; or
>rather, after failing to get somewhere then.  And in addition, there are
>real nuisances built-in there: the value to enter for video RAM _must_
>be given wrong in order to get a right result; or, the [screen]
>"modules" default would most certainly result in failure, while there's
>not the least meaningful indication which choices would be appropriate.
>Sheer horror this, can make you waste days on end without getting the
>specific combo of card/monitor to work ever in its best way.  The Mdk
>procedure is way ahead.)

Hoiw recently have you done a Debian install of X, and what version of 
Debian were you using? (And what installation method were you using? 
dselect? apt?) My experience with X on Debian has been nothing like what 
you describe, not ever, and I've been installing Debian systems (Slink, 
Potato, Woody, and Sid) for several years now. The only problem I have ... 
unless I'm doing something eccentric that requires VERY non-standard X 
configuration (like accessing TV-out on a video card that supplies it) ... 
is that Debian installs always assume you want to use xdm, not run x from a 
console using startx, so I usually  have to disable that "feature" by hand. 
The latest setup dialog is, to my eye, very slick and reliable.

Not being a Mandrake user, I cannot speak to the *relative* merits of the 
two installers, of course.



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Mandrake 8.1??

[Hal MacArgle]

Greetings: Trying to learn Mandrake 8.1 in an attempt to help the
neighbours move to Linux - I'm not doing too well with this pur-
chased commercial package - "Standard Edition."

Have KDE installed and the KDE Desktop and right side sliding tool
bar working fine, centered all directions on the monitor..

However clicking on "Mandrake Control Centre" that screen comes up OK
on the top and left, but the right and bottom are "folded" way back
on the CRT, if that's the proper way to describe it. In other words I
don't see, or can't drag and get or anything, the right and bottom of
the display, meaning I can't see the various buttons..

I'm stuck. Any suggestions?? I realize there's a forum for Mandrake
but I haven't gotten far enough along yet - I don't think. :^)..

TIA and cheers,

    Hal - in Terra Alta, WV - Slackware GNU/Linux 8.0   (2.4.13)
                Proprietary  Formats  Unacceptable
.
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Re: Mandrake 8.1??

[James Miller]

Hal:

As I understand it, this has something to do with the X Windows feature
known as "virtual resolution." X Windows can, apparently, make a monitor
function at a higher resolution than it's really capable of by making the
actual display actually cover only part of the visible display. In such
cases, things that appear within the actual display are sometimes cut off
at the edges. When the virtual resolution is set up correctly, then dragging
the mouse cursor to the edge of the screen causes the screen to shift in that
direction, making what was cut off at that edge visible (while at the same
time cutting things off at the opposite edge). Though I've had such a
setup working on one of my machines previously, I can't say that I really
understand how it's done. In that case, the setup was automatically
generated by the distro I had installed (Vectorlinux). In other instances,
I have had things get cut off the edge of the screen, but dragging the
cursor to the offending edge didn't cause any screen scrolling. Anyway, I like
this feature of "virtual resolution", and would like to understand better
how it works and how to tweak/set it up. Maybe someone here can help
explain and illumine our darkness on the issue.

Apologies for anything in the foregoing that is grossly distorted,
misinformed or just plain stupid. I didn't get my degree in this stuff. I
just try to figure it out as it causes me problems.

James

On 6 Mar 2003, haltec@kvinet.com wrote:

> Greetings: Trying to learn Mandrake 8.1 in an attempt to help the
> neighbours move to Linux - I'm not doing too well with this pur-
> chased commercial package - "Standard Edition."
>
> Have KDE installed and the KDE Desktop and right side sliding tool
> bar working fine, centered all directions on the monitor..
>
> However clicking on "Mandrake Control Centre" that screen comes up OK
> on the top and left, but the right and bottom are "folded" way back
> on the CRT, if that's the proper way to describe it. In other words I
> don't see, or can't drag and get or anything, the right and bottom of
> the display, meaning I can't see the various buttons..
>
> I'm stuck. Any suggestions?? I realize there's a forum for Mandrake
> but I haven't gotten far enough along yet - I don't think. :^)..
>
> TIA and cheers,
>
>     Hal - in Terra Alta, WV - Slackware GNU/Linux 8.0   (2.4.13)
>                 Proprietary  Formats  Unacceptable
> ..
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-newbie" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
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Re: Mandrake 8.1??

[ichi]

James Miller wrote:
> 
> dragging the mouse cursor to the edge of the screen causes 
> the screen to shift in that direction, making what was cut 
> off at that edge visible (while at the same time cutting 
> things off at the opposite edge). 
> I like this feature of "virtual resolution", and would like 
> to understand better how it works and how to tweak/set it up. 

See /etc/XF86Config, subsection Display
---------------
Depth 4
Modes "640x480"
Virtual 800 600
---------------
This example provides a virtual 800x600 display on a 
generic VGA screen.

Cheers,
Steven

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RE: Mandrake 8.1??

[James Miller]

On 7 Mar 2003, ichi@ihug.co.nz wrote:

> James Miller wrote:
> >
> > dragging the mouse cursor to the edge of the screen causes
> > the screen to shift in that direction, making what was cut
> > off at that edge visible (while at the same time cutting
> > things off at the opposite edge).
> > I like this feature of "virtual resolution", and would like
> > to understand better how it works and how to tweak/set it up.
>
> See /etc/XF86Config, subsection Display
> ---------------
> Depth 4
> Modes "640x480"
> Virtual 800 600
> ---------------
> This example provides a virtual 800x600 display on a
> generic VGA screen.
>
Yes, I was able to successfully implement virtual resolution using these
tips. Thanks, Steven. I'm not sure this really solves your problem though,
Hal. It seems like it *could* - that is, if your friends don't mind using
virtual resolution and having, essentially, a "floating window" onto their
desktop, with only parts of it displaying, moving the cursor around being
required to see parts that are not visible. I found this setting a bit
unsettling the first time I encountered it, but have come to appreciate
it for smaller monitors. I don't know if your firends would think
likewise - especially if they are absolute newbies to Linux.

It seems like the problem you initially described, Hal, was one in which,
for some reason, the display size did not match the resolution. Why this
is, I cannot say. My guesses - but they are only guesses - would be that
it could have to do with more intricate video settings like vertical and
horizontal sync, or perhaps dot-clocks. If it's some thing like that, then
someone else here will have to inform on getting those settings right: I'm
pretty much in the dark on that. So, the information offered by Steven,
which was quite helpful to me, may or may not resolve your friends'
display problems. If they aren't turned off by the way virtual resolution
works, it seems like it could help: my guess is that, with virtual
resolution, actual display size becomes irrelevant. They should be able to
view the whole of the desktop - in increments - just by moving the mouse
cursor around, even if the settings that cause parts of the display to get
cut off without virtual resolution are not fully correct. If they don't
like the way virtual resolution works, then perhaps we can rely on someone
else onlist to provide details about how to adjust settings so that parts
of the display seem to be getting cut off don't get cut off.

More heat than light? Can't say for sure, but maybe someone else can
correct any errors I've perpetrated here.

James

PS I have also wondered in the past when I have encountered the situation
you've described, whether the gui application in question (in your case
Mandrake's control center) are somehow poorly written and are themselves
the source of the display issues, rather than the video card's/monitor's
display settings in XF86Config. Don't know the answer to that, but I'll
also throw that out for consideration.

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Re: Mandrake 8.1??

[raihan]

Hi,

Try maximizing the dialog box window, if possible.  This
should neatly sidestep the whole issue of ``virtual
monitors''.

I, also, have encountered the above problem, and have
attributed it to bad dialog box design.  The problem also
occasionally plagues Windows dialog boxes, as well.  I did
not know about the ``virtual monitor'' phenomenon, though.

HTH,
Yawar Amin
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RE: Mandrake 8.1??

[James Miller]

On 7 Mar 2003, raihan@citech-bd.com wrote:
>
> Try maximizing the dialog box window, if possible.  This
> should neatly sidestep the whole issue of ``virtual
> monitors''.
>
> I, also, have encountered the above problem, and have
> attributed it to bad dialog box design.  The problem also
> occasionally plagues Windows dialog boxes, as well.  I did
> not know about the ``virtual monitor'' phenomenon, though.
>
Maximizing the dialogue box does, occassionally take care of the problem.
But I've had it happen, at times, that even this would not cause relevant
portions of the dialogue box to appear (e.g., especially, at the bottom,
where you have your "ok," "apply" and "cancel" click boxes). Regardless of
maximizing, these are still sometimes cut off at the bottom of the screen
- as is any scroll bar that may appear at the right edge! In that case,
you are left to "tab and guess" when you're on the appropriate box before
hitting "enter." This could be an exercise in alienation from Linux for a
certain breed of newbie. I do seem to recall this happening
occassionally under Win, though not with the frequency I encounter it
under Linux. Anyway, let's see if this simple technique of maximizing the
dialogue window (NOT a registered trademark!) works for Hal.

In any case, it seems like we have another vote for bad dialogue box
design. Anyone else care to cast their vote - or perhaps better yet - give
a more authoritative analysis of Hal's (and, apparently, others') problem?

Thanks, James

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Re: Mandrake 8.1??

[Hal MacArgle]

Greetings James, Steven and Yawar and thanks for your input and
comments.. I'm still struggling with this plus researching my many
notes about X11R6 from months/years back.. I hit the Web for FAQ's,
etc including the Mandrake site and nothing similar yet..

The Desktop is maximized and the problem persists with the tool bar
slid up or down.. When clicking on the Mandrake Control Centre there
are no buttons in sight to do anything including maximizing..

I looked at /etc/X11/XF86Config and the default entries under
"Display" do NOT have the virtual entry.. I reconfigured another
machine running Slackware and find that with "virtual 640 480" the
screen is filled but if I happen to access a site that has drop down
menus I can't "get" to them.. This is a BIG problem because "WV" is
always at the "bottom" of the list. <grin> Commenting the virtual
entry permits the scroll all over the place as James mentioned, and I
can then select WV, etc...

It seems to me the problem may be the bad dialogue design mentioned
in that the Desktop itself, KDE, always fills the screen perfectly..
It's just when you want to manipulate other screens like the Control
Centre which is the worst of the lot.. Only half of it is viewable.
Some of the others are better in that you can actually see the very
top of the OK, Cancel, etc buttons.. It may be a non-compatible issue
with this one box only and it's BIOS/MB.. I'm sure there are
thousands of Mandrake 8.1 installs that are OK..

In summation I have to conclude that a default, "recommended" install
of Mandrake 8.1 is NOT for the M$ crowd especially since there are
some other problems I found making it very unuser friendly compared
to a Win95 or Win98 setup.. I will never change from Linux/Unix but
my neighbours wont buy what I can offer as of now.. Not that I'm
selling "anything." Of course we all know that once Linux is
configured you wont need the reset button much again.. :^)

I have ordered an updated book that may shed some light, at least on
X11R6.. All my present books are from the early/mid nineties.. Ugh.

Thanks again - appreciate!!

    Hal - in Terra Alta, WV - Slackware GNU/Linux 8.0   (2.4.13)
                Proprietary  Formats  Unacceptable
.
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