Documenting the mailing lists.

Documenting the mailing lists.

[Darren Hart]

Scott,

We've come across some more confusion about mailing lists recently. I've
sent a patch against poky to try and clear it up a bit in the source,
but we should also see about cleaning up the web descriptions of the lists.

We have two pages that describe the lists:

http://www.yoctoproject.org/community/mailing-lists
https://lists.yoctoproject.org/

My first recommendation would be to eliminate
http://www.yoctoproject.org/community/mailing-lists and replace links to
it with links to https://lists.yoctoproject.org. This eliminates the
need to keep the CMS version in sync with the mailman page. The mailman
page should be considered the master anyway as the Description field is
taken directly from the list administrative settings.

We should then work to create meaningful Descriptions of all the lists.
These should still fit on a single line, but I think we can improve on
what we have. For example:

meta-ti		Mailing list for the meta-ti layer

is not particularly enlightening. Perhaps something like:

meta-ti		Usage and development of the meta-ti layer

If we do this all at once, we can also ensure a consistent language,
tone, etc. I'll propose something for each list here and ask that
interested parties comment and correct in reply. Once agreed upon, the
admins of the respective lists can make the changes (all CC'd)

Current:
========
linux-yocto 	Development list for the linux-yocto*.git Linux kernel
		repositories
meta-ti 	Mailing list for the meta-ti layer
poky 		Poky build system developer discussion & patch
		submission for meta-yocto
shoeleather 	Neutral Board Lab Mailing List
yocto 		Discussion of all things Yocto
yocto-ab 	Yocto Project Advisory Board
yocto-advocacy 	Yocto Project Advocacy & Outreach AB Subgroup
yocto-announce 	Announcements from the Yocto Project
yocto-bsp 	BSP Interest Group
Yocto-builds 	Build failures and discusion about the build system
yocto-infrastructure 	Infrastructure


Proposed:
=========
linux-yocto 	Development list for the linux-yocto*.git Linux kernel
		repositories
meta-ti 	Usage and development list for the meta-ti layer
poky 		Usage and development list for the Poky build system
		(see README for patch submission)
shoeleather 	Neutral Board Lab Mailing List

I'm not sure what "neutral" is meant to convey. How about:

		Discussion list for the Shoeleather embedded board lab

yocto 		General discussion list for the Yocto Project and
		development for projects without dedicated lists

I think the yocto list is a bit problematic in that it mixes project
conceptual discussion, user help desk, and development all on the same
list. However, I'm trying to clarify what these actually are here - not
change anything.

yocto-ab 	Yocto Project Advisory Board ???

This should imply the intended audience. Is it just meant for members?
Is it meant as a way for non-AB members to observe what is going on?

yocto-advocacy 	Yocto Project advocacy & outreach AB subgroup

Same as above.

yocto-announce 	Announcements from the Yocto Project (low traffic)
yocto-bsp 	BSP Interest Group ???

There is no detailed description for this list, so I'm not sure what
this is really about.

Yocto-builds 	Build failures and discussion about the autobuilder

(includes typo fix, "build system" removed to avoid confusion with the
"poky build system")

yocto-infrastructure 	Infrastructure ???

Jefro or Michael, can you come up with something appropriate here?


For lists where certain guidelines should be used in communications and
patch submission, we should document that in the detailed description of
the list, such as [project] tags for example.

-- 
Darren Hart
Intel Open Source Technology Center
Yocto Project - Technical Lead - Linux Kernel

Re: Documenting the mailing lists.

[Denys Dmytriyenko]

On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 11:43:38AM -0700, Darren Hart wrote:
> Scott,
> 
> We've come across some more confusion about mailing lists recently. I've
> sent a patch against poky to try and clear it up a bit in the source,
> but we should also see about cleaning up the web descriptions of the lists.
> 
> We have two pages that describe the lists:
> 
> http://www.yoctoproject.org/community/mailing-lists
> https://lists.yoctoproject.org/
> 
> My first recommendation would be to eliminate
> http://www.yoctoproject.org/community/mailing-lists and replace links to
> it with links to https://lists.yoctoproject.org. This eliminates the
> need to keep the CMS version in sync with the mailman page. The mailman
> page should be considered the master anyway as the Description field is
> taken directly from the list administrative settings.

I completely agree with this proposal to unify and clean up the mailing list 
references and descriptions. I didn't even know there was a separate page at 
http://www.yoctoproject.org/community/mailing-lists - probably because I was 
happy with https://lists.yoctoproject.org/ all the time :)


> We should then work to create meaningful Descriptions of all the lists.
> These should still fit on a single line, but I think we can improve on
> what we have. For example:
> 
> meta-ti		Mailing list for the meta-ti layer
> 
> is not particularly enlightening. Perhaps something like:
> 
> meta-ti		Usage and development of the meta-ti layer

Not sure if this improves much - in either case it's just a generic 
description of the mailing list that is specific to the corresponding layer, 
meta-ti. But I'm fine with the change, as long as we are unifying all the 
other list descriptions.


> If we do this all at once, we can also ensure a consistent language,
> tone, etc.

Exactly! Thanks for initiating this.


> I'll propose something for each list here and ask that
> interested parties comment and correct in reply. Once agreed upon, the
> admins of the respective lists can make the changes (all CC'd)
> 
> Current:
> ========
> linux-yocto 	Development list for the linux-yocto*.git Linux kernel
> 		repositories
> meta-ti 	Mailing list for the meta-ti layer
> poky 		Poky build system developer discussion & patch
> 		submission for meta-yocto
> shoeleather 	Neutral Board Lab Mailing List
> yocto 		Discussion of all things Yocto
> yocto-ab 	Yocto Project Advisory Board
> yocto-advocacy 	Yocto Project Advocacy & Outreach AB Subgroup
> yocto-announce 	Announcements from the Yocto Project
> yocto-bsp 	BSP Interest Group
> Yocto-builds 	Build failures and discusion about the build system
> yocto-infrastructure 	Infrastructure
> 
> 
> Proposed:
> =========
> linux-yocto 	Development list for the linux-yocto*.git Linux kernel
> 		repositories
> meta-ti 	Usage and development list for the meta-ti layer
> poky 		Usage and development list for the Poky build system
> 		(see README for patch submission)
> shoeleather 	Neutral Board Lab Mailing List
> 
> I'm not sure what "neutral" is meant to convey. How about:
> 
> 		Discussion list for the Shoeleather embedded board lab
> 
> yocto 		General discussion list for the Yocto Project and
> 		development for projects without dedicated lists
> 
> I think the yocto list is a bit problematic in that it mixes project
> conceptual discussion, user help desk, and development all on the same
> list. However, I'm trying to clarify what these actually are here - not
> change anything.
> 
> yocto-ab 	Yocto Project Advisory Board ???
> 
> This should imply the intended audience. Is it just meant for members?
> Is it meant as a way for non-AB members to observe what is going on?
> 
> yocto-advocacy 	Yocto Project advocacy & outreach AB subgroup
> 
> Same as above.
> 
> yocto-announce 	Announcements from the Yocto Project (low traffic)
> yocto-bsp 	BSP Interest Group ???
> 
> There is no detailed description for this list, so I'm not sure what
> this is really about.
> 
> Yocto-builds 	Build failures and discussion about the autobuilder
> 
> (includes typo fix, "build system" removed to avoid confusion with the
> "poky build system")
> 
> yocto-infrastructure 	Infrastructure ???
> 
> Jefro or Michael, can you come up with something appropriate here?
> 
> 
> For lists where certain guidelines should be used in communications and
> patch submission, we should document that in the detailed description of
> the list, such as [project] tags for example.

-- 
Denys

Re: Documenting the mailing lists.

[Rifenbark, Scott M]

I can replace the information on http://www.yoctoproject.org/community/mailing-lists with a generic bit about mailing lists and then provide a link to the https://lists.yoctoproject.org/ page.  Regarding the text on the https://lists.yoctoproject.org link.  Who maintains that page?

Scott

-----Original Message-----
From: Denys Dmytriyenko [mailto:denys@ti.com] 
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 12:15 PM
To: Darren Hart
Cc: Yocto Project; Rifenbark, Scott M; Paul Gortmaker; Richard Purdie; Wold, Saul; Paul Eggleton; Osier-mixon, Jeffrey; Zanussi, Tom; Hudson, Sean; Koen Kooi; Jason Kridner; Flanagan, Elizabeth; Michael Halstead
Subject: Re: Documenting the mailing lists.

On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 11:43:38AM -0700, Darren Hart wrote:
> Scott,
> 
> We've come across some more confusion about mailing lists recently. I've
> sent a patch against poky to try and clear it up a bit in the source,
> but we should also see about cleaning up the web descriptions of the lists.
> 
> We have two pages that describe the lists:
> 
> http://www.yoctoproject.org/community/mailing-lists
> https://lists.yoctoproject.org/
> 
> My first recommendation would be to eliminate
> http://www.yoctoproject.org/community/mailing-lists and replace links to
> it with links to https://lists.yoctoproject.org. This eliminates the
> need to keep the CMS version in sync with the mailman page. The mailman
> page should be considered the master anyway as the Description field is
> taken directly from the list administrative settings.

I completely agree with this proposal to unify and clean up the mailing list 
references and descriptions. I didn't even know there was a separate page at 
http://www.yoctoproject.org/community/mailing-lists - probably because I was 
happy with https://lists.yoctoproject.org/ all the time :)


> We should then work to create meaningful Descriptions of all the lists.
> These should still fit on a single line, but I think we can improve on
> what we have. For example:
> 
> meta-ti		Mailing list for the meta-ti layer
> 
> is not particularly enlightening. Perhaps something like:
> 
> meta-ti		Usage and development of the meta-ti layer

Not sure if this improves much - in either case it's just a generic 
description of the mailing list that is specific to the corresponding layer, 
meta-ti. But I'm fine with the change, as long as we are unifying all the 
other list descriptions.


> If we do this all at once, we can also ensure a consistent language,
> tone, etc.

Exactly! Thanks for initiating this.


> I'll propose something for each list here and ask that
> interested parties comment and correct in reply. Once agreed upon, the
> admins of the respective lists can make the changes (all CC'd)
> 
> Current:
> ========
> linux-yocto 	Development list for the linux-yocto*.git Linux kernel
> 		repositories
> meta-ti 	Mailing list for the meta-ti layer
> poky 		Poky build system developer discussion & patch
> 		submission for meta-yocto
> shoeleather 	Neutral Board Lab Mailing List
> yocto 		Discussion of all things Yocto
> yocto-ab 	Yocto Project Advisory Board
> yocto-advocacy 	Yocto Project Advocacy & Outreach AB Subgroup
> yocto-announce 	Announcements from the Yocto Project
> yocto-bsp 	BSP Interest Group
> Yocto-builds 	Build failures and discusion about the build system
> yocto-infrastructure 	Infrastructure
> 
> 
> Proposed:
> =========
> linux-yocto 	Development list for the linux-yocto*.git Linux kernel
> 		repositories
> meta-ti 	Usage and development list for the meta-ti layer
> poky 		Usage and development list for the Poky build system
> 		(see README for patch submission)
> shoeleather 	Neutral Board Lab Mailing List
> 
> I'm not sure what "neutral" is meant to convey. How about:
> 
> 		Discussion list for the Shoeleather embedded board lab
> 
> yocto 		General discussion list for the Yocto Project and
> 		development for projects without dedicated lists
> 
> I think the yocto list is a bit problematic in that it mixes project
> conceptual discussion, user help desk, and development all on the same
> list. However, I'm trying to clarify what these actually are here - not
> change anything.
> 
> yocto-ab 	Yocto Project Advisory Board ???
> 
> This should imply the intended audience. Is it just meant for members?
> Is it meant as a way for non-AB members to observe what is going on?
> 
> yocto-advocacy 	Yocto Project advocacy & outreach AB subgroup
> 
> Same as above.
> 
> yocto-announce 	Announcements from the Yocto Project (low traffic)
> yocto-bsp 	BSP Interest Group ???
> 
> There is no detailed description for this list, so I'm not sure what
> this is really about.
> 
> Yocto-builds 	Build failures and discussion about the autobuilder
> 
> (includes typo fix, "build system" removed to avoid confusion with the
> "poky build system")
> 
> yocto-infrastructure 	Infrastructure ???
> 
> Jefro or Michael, can you come up with something appropriate here?
> 
> 
> For lists where certain guidelines should be used in communications and
> patch submission, we should document that in the detailed description of
> the list, such as [project] tags for example.

-- 
Denys

Re: Documenting the mailing lists.

[Darren Hart]

On 08/20/2012 01:55 PM, Rifenbark, Scott M wrote:
> I can replace the information on
> http://www.yoctoproject.org/community/mailing-lists with a generic
> bit about mailing lists and then provide a link to the
> https://lists.yoctoproject.org/ page.

That would work for me.

>  Regarding the text on the
> https://lists.yoctoproject.org link.  Who maintains that page?

The Description field is pulled from the administrative settings for
each of the lists managed by mailman. So once we agree on the
descriptions, the various list admins will update the descriptions and
the page will reflect that (I believe Jefro and I can cover most.. if
not all of them, but all the admins are CC'd here).

However, please do not make any changes until we come to a consensus on
how to handle this. I believe we have some discussion that needs to
happen first.

To prevent this turning into a multi-week nit-pic-fest, I suggest we set
Friday Augh 24th @ Noon PST as the deadline and the point at which the
agreed on changes can be made and all changes should be made final by
EOD PST on Monday Aug 27th.

--
Darren

> 
> Scott
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Denys Dmytriyenko
> [mailto:denys@ti.com] Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 12:15 PM To:
> Darren Hart Cc: Yocto Project; Rifenbark, Scott M; Paul Gortmaker;
> Richard Purdie; Wold, Saul; Paul Eggleton; Osier-mixon, Jeffrey;
> Zanussi, Tom; Hudson, Sean; Koen Kooi; Jason Kridner; Flanagan,
> Elizabeth; Michael Halstead Subject: Re: Documenting the mailing
> lists.
> 
> On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 11:43:38AM -0700, Darren Hart wrote:
>> Scott,
>> 
>> We've come across some more confusion about mailing lists recently.
>> I've sent a patch against poky to try and clear it up a bit in the
>> source, but we should also see about cleaning up the web
>> descriptions of the lists.
>> 
>> We have two pages that describe the lists:
>> 
>> http://www.yoctoproject.org/community/mailing-lists 
>> https://lists.yoctoproject.org/
>> 
>> My first recommendation would be to eliminate 
>> http://www.yoctoproject.org/community/mailing-lists and replace
>> links to it with links to https://lists.yoctoproject.org. This
>> eliminates the need to keep the CMS version in sync with the
>> mailman page. The mailman page should be considered the master
>> anyway as the Description field is taken directly from the list
>> administrative settings.
> 
> I completely agree with this proposal to unify and clean up the
> mailing list references and descriptions. I didn't even know there
> was a separate page at 
> http://www.yoctoproject.org/community/mailing-lists - probably
> because I was happy with https://lists.yoctoproject.org/ all the time
> :)
> 
> 
>> We should then work to create meaningful Descriptions of all the
>> lists. These should still fit on a single line, but I think we can
>> improve on what we have. For example:
>> 
>> meta-ti		Mailing list for the meta-ti layer
>> 
>> is not particularly enlightening. Perhaps something like:
>> 
>> meta-ti		Usage and development of the meta-ti layer
> 
> Not sure if this improves much - in either case it's just a generic 
> description of the mailing list that is specific to the corresponding
> layer, meta-ti. But I'm fine with the change, as long as we are
> unifying all the other list descriptions.
> 
> 
>> If we do this all at once, we can also ensure a consistent
>> language, tone, etc.
> 
> Exactly! Thanks for initiating this.
> 
> 
>> I'll propose something for each list here and ask that interested
>> parties comment and correct in reply. Once agreed upon, the admins
>> of the respective lists can make the changes (all CC'd)
>> 
>> Current: ======== linux-yocto 	Development list for the
>> linux-yocto*.git Linux kernel repositories meta-ti 	Mailing list
>> for the meta-ti layer poky 		Poky build system developer discussion
>> & patch submission for meta-yocto shoeleather 	Neutral Board Lab
>> Mailing List yocto 		Discussion of all things Yocto yocto-ab 	Yocto
>> Project Advisory Board yocto-advocacy 	Yocto Project Advocacy &
>> Outreach AB Subgroup yocto-announce 	Announcements from the Yocto
>> Project yocto-bsp 	BSP Interest Group Yocto-builds 	Build failures
>> and discusion about the build system yocto-infrastructure
>> Infrastructure
>> 
>> 
>> Proposed: ========= linux-yocto 	Development list for the
>> linux-yocto*.git Linux kernel repositories meta-ti 	Usage and
>> development list for the meta-ti layer poky 		Usage and development
>> list for the Poky build system (see README for patch submission) 
>> shoeleather 	Neutral Board Lab Mailing List
>> 
>> I'm not sure what "neutral" is meant to convey. How about:
>> 
>> Discussion list for the Shoeleather embedded board lab
>> 
>> yocto 		General discussion list for the Yocto Project and 
>> development for projects without dedicated lists
>> 
>> I think the yocto list is a bit problematic in that it mixes
>> project conceptual discussion, user help desk, and development all
>> on the same list. However, I'm trying to clarify what these
>> actually are here - not change anything.
>> 
>> yocto-ab 	Yocto Project Advisory Board ???
>> 
>> This should imply the intended audience. Is it just meant for
>> members? Is it meant as a way for non-AB members to observe what is
>> going on?
>> 
>> yocto-advocacy 	Yocto Project advocacy & outreach AB subgroup
>> 
>> Same as above.
>> 
>> yocto-announce 	Announcements from the Yocto Project (low traffic) 
>> yocto-bsp 	BSP Interest Group ???
>> 
>> There is no detailed description for this list, so I'm not sure
>> what this is really about.
>> 
>> Yocto-builds 	Build failures and discussion about the autobuilder
>> 
>> (includes typo fix, "build system" removed to avoid confusion with
>> the "poky build system")
>> 
>> yocto-infrastructure 	Infrastructure ???
>> 
>> Jefro or Michael, can you come up with something appropriate here?
>> 
>> 
>> For lists where certain guidelines should be used in communications
>> and patch submission, we should document that in the detailed
>> description of the list, such as [project] tags for example.
> 

-- 
Darren Hart
Intel Open Source Technology Center
Yocto Project - Technical Lead - Linux Kernel

Re: Documenting the mailing lists.

[Rifenbark, Scott M]

Okay - I will hold off on the http://www.yoctoproject.org/community/mailing-lists change until Friday Noon.

Scott

-----Original Message-----
From: Darren Hart [mailto:dvhart@linux.intel.com] 
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 2:19 PM
To: Rifenbark, Scott M
Cc: Denys Dmytriyenko; Yocto Project; Paul Gortmaker; Richard Purdie; Wold, Saul; Paul Eggleton; Osier-mixon, Jeffrey; Zanussi, Tom; Hudson, Sean; Koen Kooi; Jason Kridner; Flanagan, Elizabeth; Michael Halstead
Subject: Re: Documenting the mailing lists.



On 08/20/2012 01:55 PM, Rifenbark, Scott M wrote:
> I can replace the information on
> http://www.yoctoproject.org/community/mailing-lists with a generic
> bit about mailing lists and then provide a link to the
> https://lists.yoctoproject.org/ page.

That would work for me.

>  Regarding the text on the
> https://lists.yoctoproject.org link.  Who maintains that page?

The Description field is pulled from the administrative settings for
each of the lists managed by mailman. So once we agree on the
descriptions, the various list admins will update the descriptions and
the page will reflect that (I believe Jefro and I can cover most.. if
not all of them, but all the admins are CC'd here).

However, please do not make any changes until we come to a consensus on
how to handle this. I believe we have some discussion that needs to
happen first.

To prevent this turning into a multi-week nit-pic-fest, I suggest we set
Friday Augh 24th @ Noon PST as the deadline and the point at which the
agreed on changes can be made and all changes should be made final by
EOD PST on Monday Aug 27th.

--
Darren

> 
> Scott
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Denys Dmytriyenko
> [mailto:denys@ti.com] Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 12:15 PM To:
> Darren Hart Cc: Yocto Project; Rifenbark, Scott M; Paul Gortmaker;
> Richard Purdie; Wold, Saul; Paul Eggleton; Osier-mixon, Jeffrey;
> Zanussi, Tom; Hudson, Sean; Koen Kooi; Jason Kridner; Flanagan,
> Elizabeth; Michael Halstead Subject: Re: Documenting the mailing
> lists.
> 
> On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 11:43:38AM -0700, Darren Hart wrote:
>> Scott,
>> 
>> We've come across some more confusion about mailing lists recently.
>> I've sent a patch against poky to try and clear it up a bit in the
>> source, but we should also see about cleaning up the web
>> descriptions of the lists.
>> 
>> We have two pages that describe the lists:
>> 
>> http://www.yoctoproject.org/community/mailing-lists 
>> https://lists.yoctoproject.org/
>> 
>> My first recommendation would be to eliminate 
>> http://www.yoctoproject.org/community/mailing-lists and replace
>> links to it with links to https://lists.yoctoproject.org. This
>> eliminates the need to keep the CMS version in sync with the
>> mailman page. The mailman page should be considered the master
>> anyway as the Description field is taken directly from the list
>> administrative settings.
> 
> I completely agree with this proposal to unify and clean up the
> mailing list references and descriptions. I didn't even know there
> was a separate page at 
> http://www.yoctoproject.org/community/mailing-lists - probably
> because I was happy with https://lists.yoctoproject.org/ all the time
> :)
> 
> 
>> We should then work to create meaningful Descriptions of all the
>> lists. These should still fit on a single line, but I think we can
>> improve on what we have. For example:
>> 
>> meta-ti		Mailing list for the meta-ti layer
>> 
>> is not particularly enlightening. Perhaps something like:
>> 
>> meta-ti		Usage and development of the meta-ti layer
> 
> Not sure if this improves much - in either case it's just a generic 
> description of the mailing list that is specific to the corresponding
> layer, meta-ti. But I'm fine with the change, as long as we are
> unifying all the other list descriptions.
> 
> 
>> If we do this all at once, we can also ensure a consistent
>> language, tone, etc.
> 
> Exactly! Thanks for initiating this.
> 
> 
>> I'll propose something for each list here and ask that interested
>> parties comment and correct in reply. Once agreed upon, the admins
>> of the respective lists can make the changes (all CC'd)
>> 
>> Current: ======== linux-yocto 	Development list for the
>> linux-yocto*.git Linux kernel repositories meta-ti 	Mailing list
>> for the meta-ti layer poky 		Poky build system developer discussion
>> & patch submission for meta-yocto shoeleather 	Neutral Board Lab
>> Mailing List yocto 		Discussion of all things Yocto yocto-ab 	Yocto
>> Project Advisory Board yocto-advocacy 	Yocto Project Advocacy &
>> Outreach AB Subgroup yocto-announce 	Announcements from the Yocto
>> Project yocto-bsp 	BSP Interest Group Yocto-builds 	Build failures
>> and discusion about the build system yocto-infrastructure
>> Infrastructure
>> 
>> 
>> Proposed: ========= linux-yocto 	Development list for the
>> linux-yocto*.git Linux kernel repositories meta-ti 	Usage and
>> development list for the meta-ti layer poky 		Usage and development
>> list for the Poky build system (see README for patch submission) 
>> shoeleather 	Neutral Board Lab Mailing List
>> 
>> I'm not sure what "neutral" is meant to convey. How about:
>> 
>> Discussion list for the Shoeleather embedded board lab
>> 
>> yocto 		General discussion list for the Yocto Project and 
>> development for projects without dedicated lists
>> 
>> I think the yocto list is a bit problematic in that it mixes
>> project conceptual discussion, user help desk, and development all
>> on the same list. However, I'm trying to clarify what these
>> actually are here - not change anything.
>> 
>> yocto-ab 	Yocto Project Advisory Board ???
>> 
>> This should imply the intended audience. Is it just meant for
>> members? Is it meant as a way for non-AB members to observe what is
>> going on?
>> 
>> yocto-advocacy 	Yocto Project advocacy & outreach AB subgroup
>> 
>> Same as above.
>> 
>> yocto-announce 	Announcements from the Yocto Project (low traffic) 
>> yocto-bsp 	BSP Interest Group ???
>> 
>> There is no detailed description for this list, so I'm not sure
>> what this is really about.
>> 
>> Yocto-builds 	Build failures and discussion about the autobuilder
>> 
>> (includes typo fix, "build system" removed to avoid confusion with
>> the "poky build system")
>> 
>> yocto-infrastructure 	Infrastructure ???
>> 
>> Jefro or Michael, can you come up with something appropriate here?
>> 
>> 
>> For lists where certain guidelines should be used in communications
>> and patch submission, we should document that in the detailed
>> description of the list, such as [project] tags for example.
> 

-- 
Darren Hart
Intel Open Source Technology Center
Yocto Project - Technical Lead - Linux Kernel

Re: Documenting the mailing lists.

[Denys Dmytriyenko]

On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 08:55:34PM +0000, Rifenbark, Scott M wrote:
> Regarding the text on the https://lists.yoctoproject.org link.  Who 
> maintains that page?

It's generated from each list's configuration data. Corresponding list 
maintainers or mailman admin (Michael?) can change the descriptions, like I 
just did for meta-ti.

-- 
Denys


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Denys Dmytriyenko [mailto:denys@ti.com] 
> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 12:15 PM
> To: Darren Hart
> Cc: Yocto Project; Rifenbark, Scott M; Paul Gortmaker; Richard Purdie; Wold, Saul; Paul Eggleton; Osier-mixon, Jeffrey; Zanussi, Tom; Hudson, Sean; Koen Kooi; Jason Kridner; Flanagan, Elizabeth; Michael Halstead
> Subject: Re: Documenting the mailing lists.
> 
> On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 11:43:38AM -0700, Darren Hart wrote:
> > Scott,
> > 
> > We've come across some more confusion about mailing lists recently. I've
> > sent a patch against poky to try and clear it up a bit in the source,
> > but we should also see about cleaning up the web descriptions of the lists.
> > 
> > We have two pages that describe the lists:
> > 
> > http://www.yoctoproject.org/community/mailing-lists
> > https://lists.yoctoproject.org/
> > 
> > My first recommendation would be to eliminate
> > http://www.yoctoproject.org/community/mailing-lists and replace links to
> > it with links to https://lists.yoctoproject.org. This eliminates the
> > need to keep the CMS version in sync with the mailman page. The mailman
> > page should be considered the master anyway as the Description field is
> > taken directly from the list administrative settings.
> 
> I completely agree with this proposal to unify and clean up the mailing list 
> references and descriptions. I didn't even know there was a separate page at 
> http://www.yoctoproject.org/community/mailing-lists - probably because I was 
> happy with https://lists.yoctoproject.org/ all the time :)
> 
> 
> > We should then work to create meaningful Descriptions of all the lists.
> > These should still fit on a single line, but I think we can improve on
> > what we have. For example:
> > 
> > meta-ti		Mailing list for the meta-ti layer
> > 
> > is not particularly enlightening. Perhaps something like:
> > 
> > meta-ti		Usage and development of the meta-ti layer
> 
> Not sure if this improves much - in either case it's just a generic 
> description of the mailing list that is specific to the corresponding layer, 
> meta-ti. But I'm fine with the change, as long as we are unifying all the 
> other list descriptions.
> 
> 
> > If we do this all at once, we can also ensure a consistent language,
> > tone, etc.
> 
> Exactly! Thanks for initiating this.
> 
> 
> > I'll propose something for each list here and ask that
> > interested parties comment and correct in reply. Once agreed upon, the
> > admins of the respective lists can make the changes (all CC'd)
> > 
> > Current:
> > ========
> > linux-yocto 	Development list for the linux-yocto*.git Linux kernel
> > 		repositories
> > meta-ti 	Mailing list for the meta-ti layer
> > poky 		Poky build system developer discussion & patch
> > 		submission for meta-yocto
> > shoeleather 	Neutral Board Lab Mailing List
> > yocto 		Discussion of all things Yocto
> > yocto-ab 	Yocto Project Advisory Board
> > yocto-advocacy 	Yocto Project Advocacy & Outreach AB Subgroup
> > yocto-announce 	Announcements from the Yocto Project
> > yocto-bsp 	BSP Interest Group
> > Yocto-builds 	Build failures and discusion about the build system
> > yocto-infrastructure 	Infrastructure
> > 
> > 
> > Proposed:
> > =========
> > linux-yocto 	Development list for the linux-yocto*.git Linux kernel
> > 		repositories
> > meta-ti 	Usage and development list for the meta-ti layer
> > poky 		Usage and development list for the Poky build system
> > 		(see README for patch submission)
> > shoeleather 	Neutral Board Lab Mailing List
> > 
> > I'm not sure what "neutral" is meant to convey. How about:
> > 
> > 		Discussion list for the Shoeleather embedded board lab
> > 
> > yocto 		General discussion list for the Yocto Project and
> > 		development for projects without dedicated lists
> > 
> > I think the yocto list is a bit problematic in that it mixes project
> > conceptual discussion, user help desk, and development all on the same
> > list. However, I'm trying to clarify what these actually are here - not
> > change anything.
> > 
> > yocto-ab 	Yocto Project Advisory Board ???
> > 
> > This should imply the intended audience. Is it just meant for members?
> > Is it meant as a way for non-AB members to observe what is going on?
> > 
> > yocto-advocacy 	Yocto Project advocacy & outreach AB subgroup
> > 
> > Same as above.
> > 
> > yocto-announce 	Announcements from the Yocto Project (low traffic)
> > yocto-bsp 	BSP Interest Group ???
> > 
> > There is no detailed description for this list, so I'm not sure what
> > this is really about.
> > 
> > Yocto-builds 	Build failures and discussion about the autobuilder
> > 
> > (includes typo fix, "build system" removed to avoid confusion with the
> > "poky build system")
> > 
> > yocto-infrastructure 	Infrastructure ???
> > 
> > Jefro or Michael, can you come up with something appropriate here?
> > 
> > 
> > For lists where certain guidelines should be used in communications and
> > patch submission, we should document that in the detailed description of
> > the list, such as [project] tags for example.
> 
> -- 
> Denys

Re: Documenting the mailing lists.

[Paul Eggleton]

On Monday 20 August 2012 11:43:38 Darren Hart wrote:
> Scott,
> 
> We've come across some more confusion about mailing lists recently. I've
> sent a patch against poky to try and clear it up a bit in the source,
> but we should also see about cleaning up the web descriptions of the lists.
> 
> We have two pages that describe the lists:
> 
> http://www.yoctoproject.org/community/mailing-lists
> https://lists.yoctoproject.org/
> 
> My first recommendation would be to eliminate
> http://www.yoctoproject.org/community/mailing-lists and replace links to
> it with links to https://lists.yoctoproject.org. This eliminates the
> need to keep the CMS version in sync with the mailman page. The mailman
> page should be considered the master anyway as the Description field is
> taken directly from the list administrative settings.
> 
> We should then work to create meaningful Descriptions of all the lists.
> These should still fit on a single line, but I think we can improve on
> what we have. For example:
> 
> meta-ti		Mailing list for the meta-ti layer
> 
> is not particularly enlightening. Perhaps something like:
> 
> meta-ti		Usage and development of the meta-ti layer
> 
> If we do this all at once, we can also ensure a consistent language,
> tone, etc. I'll propose something for each list here and ask that
> interested parties comment and correct in reply. Once agreed upon, the
> admins of the respective lists can make the changes (all CC'd)
> 
> Current:
> ========
> linux-yocto 	Development list for the linux-yocto*.git Linux kernel
> 		repositories
> meta-ti 	Mailing list for the meta-ti layer
> poky 		Poky build system developer discussion & patch
> 		submission for meta-yocto
> shoeleather 	Neutral Board Lab Mailing List
> yocto 		Discussion of all things Yocto
> yocto-ab 	Yocto Project Advisory Board
> yocto-advocacy 	Yocto Project Advocacy & Outreach AB Subgroup
> yocto-announce 	Announcements from the Yocto Project
> yocto-bsp 	BSP Interest Group
> Yocto-builds 	Build failures and discusion about the build system
> yocto-infrastructure 	Infrastructure
> 
> 
> Proposed:
> =========
> linux-yocto 	Development list for the linux-yocto*.git Linux kernel
> 		repositories
> meta-ti 	Usage and development list for the meta-ti layer
> poky 		Usage and development list for the Poky build system
> 		(see README for patch submission)
> shoeleather 	Neutral Board Lab Mailing List
> 
> I'm not sure what "neutral" is meant to convey. How about:
> 
> 		Discussion list for the Shoeleather embedded board lab
> 
> yocto 		General discussion list for the Yocto Project and
> 		development for projects without dedicated lists
> 
> I think the yocto list is a bit problematic in that it mixes project
> conceptual discussion, user help desk, and development all on the same
> list. However, I'm trying to clarify what these actually are here - not
> change anything.
> 
> yocto-ab 	Yocto Project Advisory Board ???
> 
> This should imply the intended audience. Is it just meant for members?
> Is it meant as a way for non-AB members to observe what is going on?
> 
> yocto-advocacy 	Yocto Project advocacy & outreach AB subgroup
> 
> Same as above.
> 
> yocto-announce 	Announcements from the Yocto Project (low traffic)
> yocto-bsp 	BSP Interest Group ???
> 
> There is no detailed description for this list, so I'm not sure what
> this is really about.
> 
> Yocto-builds 	Build failures and discussion about the autobuilder
> 
> (includes typo fix, "build system" removed to avoid confusion with the
> "poky build system")
> 
> yocto-infrastructure 	Infrastructure ???
> 
> Jefro or Michael, can you come up with something appropriate here?
> 
> 
> For lists where certain guidelines should be used in communications and
> patch submission, we should document that in the detailed description of
> the list, such as [project] tags for example.

This is all good stuff, I'd just like to mention in case it is useful that I 
did update the list in the Reference Manual along with the information on how 
to contribute - which includes some direction on where to send patches. This 
is in the master version of the documentation but not the version currently 
shown on the website - we probably ought to fix that. We really ought to try to 
have all of this information consistent if at all possible.

Cheers,
Paul

-- 

Paul Eggleton
Intel Open Source Technology Centre

Re: Documenting the mailing lists.

[Darren Hart]

On 08/20/2012 02:26 PM, Paul Eggleton wrote:
> On Monday 20 August 2012 11:43:38 Darren Hart wrote:
>> Scott,
>>
>> We've come across some more confusion about mailing lists recently. I've
>> sent a patch against poky to try and clear it up a bit in the source,
>> but we should also see about cleaning up the web descriptions of the lists.
>>
>> We have two pages that describe the lists:
>>
>> http://www.yoctoproject.org/community/mailing-lists
>> https://lists.yoctoproject.org/
>>
>> My first recommendation would be to eliminate
>> http://www.yoctoproject.org/community/mailing-lists and replace links to
>> it with links to https://lists.yoctoproject.org. This eliminates the
>> need to keep the CMS version in sync with the mailman page. The mailman
>> page should be considered the master anyway as the Description field is
>> taken directly from the list administrative settings.
>>
>> We should then work to create meaningful Descriptions of all the lists.
>> These should still fit on a single line, but I think we can improve on
>> what we have. For example:
>>
>> meta-ti		Mailing list for the meta-ti layer
>>
>> is not particularly enlightening. Perhaps something like:
>>
>> meta-ti		Usage and development of the meta-ti layer
>>
>> If we do this all at once, we can also ensure a consistent language,
>> tone, etc. I'll propose something for each list here and ask that
>> interested parties comment and correct in reply. Once agreed upon, the
>> admins of the respective lists can make the changes (all CC'd)
>>
>> Current:
>> ========
>> linux-yocto 	Development list for the linux-yocto*.git Linux kernel
>> 		repositories
>> meta-ti 	Mailing list for the meta-ti layer
>> poky 		Poky build system developer discussion & patch
>> 		submission for meta-yocto
>> shoeleather 	Neutral Board Lab Mailing List
>> yocto 		Discussion of all things Yocto
>> yocto-ab 	Yocto Project Advisory Board
>> yocto-advocacy 	Yocto Project Advocacy & Outreach AB Subgroup
>> yocto-announce 	Announcements from the Yocto Project
>> yocto-bsp 	BSP Interest Group
>> Yocto-builds 	Build failures and discusion about the build system
>> yocto-infrastructure 	Infrastructure
>>
>>
>> Proposed:
>> =========
>> linux-yocto 	Development list for the linux-yocto*.git Linux kernel
>> 		repositories
>> meta-ti 	Usage and development list for the meta-ti layer
>> poky 		Usage and development list for the Poky build system
>> 		(see README for patch submission)
>> shoeleather 	Neutral Board Lab Mailing List
>>
>> I'm not sure what "neutral" is meant to convey. How about:
>>
>> 		Discussion list for the Shoeleather embedded board lab
>>
>> yocto 		General discussion list for the Yocto Project and
>> 		development for projects without dedicated lists
>>
>> I think the yocto list is a bit problematic in that it mixes project
>> conceptual discussion, user help desk, and development all on the same
>> list. However, I'm trying to clarify what these actually are here - not
>> change anything.
>>
>> yocto-ab 	Yocto Project Advisory Board ???
>>
>> This should imply the intended audience. Is it just meant for members?
>> Is it meant as a way for non-AB members to observe what is going on?
>>
>> yocto-advocacy 	Yocto Project advocacy & outreach AB subgroup
>>
>> Same as above.
>>
>> yocto-announce 	Announcements from the Yocto Project (low traffic)
>> yocto-bsp 	BSP Interest Group ???
>>
>> There is no detailed description for this list, so I'm not sure what
>> this is really about.
>>
>> Yocto-builds 	Build failures and discussion about the autobuilder
>>
>> (includes typo fix, "build system" removed to avoid confusion with the
>> "poky build system")
>>
>> yocto-infrastructure 	Infrastructure ???
>>
>> Jefro or Michael, can you come up with something appropriate here?
>>
>>
>> For lists where certain guidelines should be used in communications and
>> patch submission, we should document that in the detailed description of
>> the list, such as [project] tags for example.
> 
> This is all good stuff, I'd just like to mention in case it is useful that I 
> did update the list in the Reference Manual along with the information on how 
> to contribute - which includes some direction on where to send patches. This 
> is in the master version of the documentation but not the version currently 
> shown on the website - we probably ought to fix that. We really ought to try to 
> have all of this information consistent if at all possible.

Does it make sense to have this list in the reference manual? Should we
perhaps just have it reference the README in the source (that way people
can always see the current policy) and the long mailing list
description? That reduces the redundancy to 2 from 4. Should be much
easier to keep in sync.

-- 
Darren Hart
Intel Open Source Technology Center
Yocto Project - Technical Lead - Linux Kernel

Re: Documenting the mailing lists.

[Paul Eggleton]

On Monday 20 August 2012 14:27:58 Darren Hart wrote:
> On 08/20/2012 02:26 PM, Paul Eggleton wrote:
> > On Monday 20 August 2012 11:43:38 Darren Hart wrote:
> >> Scott,
> >> 
> >> We've come across some more confusion about mailing lists recently. I've
> >> sent a patch against poky to try and clear it up a bit in the source,
> >> but we should also see about cleaning up the web descriptions of the
> >> lists.
> >> 
> >> We have two pages that describe the lists:
> >> 
> >> http://www.yoctoproject.org/community/mailing-lists
> >> https://lists.yoctoproject.org/
> >> 
> >> My first recommendation would be to eliminate
> >> http://www.yoctoproject.org/community/mailing-lists and replace links to
> >> it with links to https://lists.yoctoproject.org. This eliminates the
> >> need to keep the CMS version in sync with the mailman page. The mailman
> >> page should be considered the master anyway as the Description field is
> >> taken directly from the list administrative settings.
> >> 
> >> We should then work to create meaningful Descriptions of all the lists.
> >> These should still fit on a single line, but I think we can improve on
> >> what we have. For example:
> >> 
> >> meta-ti		Mailing list for the meta-ti layer
> >> 
> >> is not particularly enlightening. Perhaps something like:
> >> 
> >> meta-ti		Usage and development of the meta-ti layer
> >> 
> >> If we do this all at once, we can also ensure a consistent language,
> >> tone, etc. I'll propose something for each list here and ask that
> >> interested parties comment and correct in reply. Once agreed upon, the
> >> admins of the respective lists can make the changes (all CC'd)
> >> 
> >> Current:
> >> ========
> >> linux-yocto 	Development list for the linux-yocto*.git Linux kernel
> >> 
> >> 		repositories
> >> 
> >> meta-ti 	Mailing list for the meta-ti layer
> >> poky 		Poky build system developer discussion & patch
> >> 
> >> 		submission for meta-yocto
> >> 
> >> shoeleather 	Neutral Board Lab Mailing List
> >> yocto 		Discussion of all things Yocto
> >> yocto-ab 	Yocto Project Advisory Board
> >> yocto-advocacy 	Yocto Project Advocacy & Outreach AB Subgroup
> >> yocto-announce 	Announcements from the Yocto Project
> >> yocto-bsp 	BSP Interest Group
> >> Yocto-builds 	Build failures and discusion about the build system
> >> yocto-infrastructure 	Infrastructure
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Proposed:
> >> =========
> >> linux-yocto 	Development list for the linux-yocto*.git Linux kernel
> >> 
> >> 		repositories
> >> 
> >> meta-ti 	Usage and development list for the meta-ti layer
> >> poky 		Usage and development list for the Poky build system
> >> 
> >> 		(see README for patch submission)
> >> 
> >> shoeleather 	Neutral Board Lab Mailing List
> >> 
> >> I'm not sure what "neutral" is meant to convey. How about:
> >> 		Discussion list for the Shoeleather embedded board lab
> >> 
> >> yocto 		General discussion list for the Yocto Project and
> >> 
> >> 		development for projects without dedicated lists
> >> 
> >> I think the yocto list is a bit problematic in that it mixes project
> >> conceptual discussion, user help desk, and development all on the same
> >> list. However, I'm trying to clarify what these actually are here - not
> >> change anything.
> >> 
> >> yocto-ab 	Yocto Project Advisory Board ???
> >> 
> >> This should imply the intended audience. Is it just meant for members?
> >> Is it meant as a way for non-AB members to observe what is going on?
> >> 
> >> yocto-advocacy 	Yocto Project advocacy & outreach AB subgroup
> >> 
> >> Same as above.
> >> 
> >> yocto-announce 	Announcements from the Yocto Project (low traffic)
> >> yocto-bsp 	BSP Interest Group ???
> >> 
> >> There is no detailed description for this list, so I'm not sure what
> >> this is really about.
> >> 
> >> Yocto-builds 	Build failures and discussion about the autobuilder
> >> 
> >> (includes typo fix, "build system" removed to avoid confusion with the
> >> "poky build system")
> >> 
> >> yocto-infrastructure 	Infrastructure ???
> >> 
> >> Jefro or Michael, can you come up with something appropriate here?
> >> 
> >> 
> >> For lists where certain guidelines should be used in communications and
> >> patch submission, we should document that in the detailed description of
> >> the list, such as [project] tags for example.
> > 
> > This is all good stuff, I'd just like to mention in case it is useful that
> > I did update the list in the Reference Manual along with the information
> > on how to contribute - which includes some direction on where to send
> > patches. This is in the master version of the documentation but not the
> > version currently shown on the website - we probably ought to fix that.
> > We really ought to try to have all of this information consistent if at
> > all possible.
> 
> Does it make sense to have this list in the reference manual? Should we
> perhaps just have it reference the README in the source (that way people
> can always see the current policy) and the long mailing list
> description? That reduces the redundancy to 2 from 4. Should be much
> easier to keep in sync.

I'll leave it up to Scott, but the last time this question came up about some 
other information the answer was that the manuals are supposed to be self-
contained.

Cheers,
Paul

-- 

Paul Eggleton
Intel Open Source Technology Centre

Re: Documenting the mailing lists.

[Rifenbark, Scott M]

Here is what it says in the Reference Manual:

12.3. Mailing lists
There are a number of mailing lists maintained by the Yocto Project as well as related OpenEmbedded mailing lists for discussion, patch submission and announcements. To subscribe to one of the following mailing lists, click on the appropriate URL in the following list and follow the instructions: 
*	http://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto - General Yocto Project discussion mailing list. 
*	http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openembedded-core - Discussion mailing list about OpenEmbedded-Core (the core metadata).
*	http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openembedded-devel - Discussion mailing list about OpenEmbedded.
*	http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/bitbake-devel - Discussion mailing list about the BitBake build tool.
*	http://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/poky - Discussion mailing list about Poky.
*	http://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto-announce - Mailing list to receive official Yocto Project release and milestone announcements.


This is what Paul is referring to by way of corrections.  I personally think it is useful to have something of a list in the Reference manual under this heading.  I don't think we need the exact same wordings though in the Reference manual as would be found in https://lists.yoctoproject.org/.  The stuff in the Reference manual should be general and give the reader an idea of the flavor of the lists.  I can update the reference manual to include a link to https://lists.yoctoproject.org/ for the final say on each list. 

Scott

-----Original Message-----
From: Darren Hart [mailto:dvhart@linux.intel.com] 
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 2:28 PM
To: Paul Eggleton
Cc: Yocto Project; Rifenbark, Scott M; Paul Gortmaker; Richard Purdie; Wold, Saul; Osier-mixon, Jeffrey; Zanussi, Tom; Hudson, Sean; Denys Dmytriyenko; Koen Kooi; Jason Kridner; Flanagan, Elizabeth; Michael Halstead
Subject: Re: Documenting the mailing lists.



On 08/20/2012 02:26 PM, Paul Eggleton wrote:
> On Monday 20 August 2012 11:43:38 Darren Hart wrote:
>> Scott,
>>
>> We've come across some more confusion about mailing lists recently. I've
>> sent a patch against poky to try and clear it up a bit in the source,
>> but we should also see about cleaning up the web descriptions of the lists.
>>
>> We have two pages that describe the lists:
>>
>> http://www.yoctoproject.org/community/mailing-lists
>> https://lists.yoctoproject.org/
>>
>> My first recommendation would be to eliminate
>> http://www.yoctoproject.org/community/mailing-lists and replace links to
>> it with links to https://lists.yoctoproject.org. This eliminates the
>> need to keep the CMS version in sync with the mailman page. The mailman
>> page should be considered the master anyway as the Description field is
>> taken directly from the list administrative settings.
>>
>> We should then work to create meaningful Descriptions of all the lists.
>> These should still fit on a single line, but I think we can improve on
>> what we have. For example:
>>
>> meta-ti		Mailing list for the meta-ti layer
>>
>> is not particularly enlightening. Perhaps something like:
>>
>> meta-ti		Usage and development of the meta-ti layer
>>
>> If we do this all at once, we can also ensure a consistent language,
>> tone, etc. I'll propose something for each list here and ask that
>> interested parties comment and correct in reply. Once agreed upon, the
>> admins of the respective lists can make the changes (all CC'd)
>>
>> Current:
>> ========
>> linux-yocto 	Development list for the linux-yocto*.git Linux kernel
>> 		repositories
>> meta-ti 	Mailing list for the meta-ti layer
>> poky 		Poky build system developer discussion & patch
>> 		submission for meta-yocto
>> shoeleather 	Neutral Board Lab Mailing List
>> yocto 		Discussion of all things Yocto
>> yocto-ab 	Yocto Project Advisory Board
>> yocto-advocacy 	Yocto Project Advocacy & Outreach AB Subgroup
>> yocto-announce 	Announcements from the Yocto Project
>> yocto-bsp 	BSP Interest Group
>> Yocto-builds 	Build failures and discusion about the build system
>> yocto-infrastructure 	Infrastructure
>>
>>
>> Proposed:
>> =========
>> linux-yocto 	Development list for the linux-yocto*.git Linux kernel
>> 		repositories
>> meta-ti 	Usage and development list for the meta-ti layer
>> poky 		Usage and development list for the Poky build system
>> 		(see README for patch submission)
>> shoeleather 	Neutral Board Lab Mailing List
>>
>> I'm not sure what "neutral" is meant to convey. How about:
>>
>> 		Discussion list for the Shoeleather embedded board lab
>>
>> yocto 		General discussion list for the Yocto Project and
>> 		development for projects without dedicated lists
>>
>> I think the yocto list is a bit problematic in that it mixes project
>> conceptual discussion, user help desk, and development all on the same
>> list. However, I'm trying to clarify what these actually are here - not
>> change anything.
>>
>> yocto-ab 	Yocto Project Advisory Board ???
>>
>> This should imply the intended audience. Is it just meant for members?
>> Is it meant as a way for non-AB members to observe what is going on?
>>
>> yocto-advocacy 	Yocto Project advocacy & outreach AB subgroup
>>
>> Same as above.
>>
>> yocto-announce 	Announcements from the Yocto Project (low traffic)
>> yocto-bsp 	BSP Interest Group ???
>>
>> There is no detailed description for this list, so I'm not sure what
>> this is really about.
>>
>> Yocto-builds 	Build failures and discussion about the autobuilder
>>
>> (includes typo fix, "build system" removed to avoid confusion with the
>> "poky build system")
>>
>> yocto-infrastructure 	Infrastructure ???
>>
>> Jefro or Michael, can you come up with something appropriate here?
>>
>>
>> For lists where certain guidelines should be used in communications and
>> patch submission, we should document that in the detailed description of
>> the list, such as [project] tags for example.
> 
> This is all good stuff, I'd just like to mention in case it is useful that I 
> did update the list in the Reference Manual along with the information on how 
> to contribute - which includes some direction on where to send patches. This 
> is in the master version of the documentation but not the version currently 
> shown on the website - we probably ought to fix that. We really ought to try to 
> have all of this information consistent if at all possible.

Does it make sense to have this list in the reference manual? Should we
perhaps just have it reference the README in the source (that way people
can always see the current policy) and the long mailing list
description? That reduces the redundancy to 2 from 4. Should be much
easier to keep in sync.

-- 
Darren Hart
Intel Open Source Technology Center
Yocto Project - Technical Lead - Linux Kernel

Re: Documenting the mailing lists.

[Hudson, Sean]

> From: Darren Hart [mailto:dvhart@linux.intel.com]
> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 2:28 PM

> Does it make sense to have this list in the reference manual? Should we
> perhaps just have it reference the README in the source (that way people
> can always see the current policy) and the long mailing list
> description? That reduces the redundancy to 2 from 4. Should be much
> easier to keep in sync.

[Hudson, Sean]
 Short answer:
   No it doesn't make sense to have the entire set in the reference manual, IMHO.
Longer answer:
  IMHO, the description of mailing lists is not useful unless you are connected to begin with and merely creates a place for maintenance without much value.   With that said, I'd personally prefer to see a reference to a canonical location for mailing lists that is kept up to date in the reference manual and/or the README.

Re: Documenting the mailing lists.

[Darren Hart]

On 08/20/2012 02:34 PM, Rifenbark, Scott M wrote:
> Here is what it says in the Reference Manual:
> 
> 12.3. Mailing lists There are a number of mailing lists maintained by the
> Yocto Project as well as related OpenEmbedded mailing lists for discussion,
> patch submission and announcements. To subscribe to one of the following
> mailing lists, click on the appropriate URL in the following list and follow
> the instructions: 
> *	http://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto - General Yocto Project discussion mailing list. 
> *	http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openembedded-core - Discussion mailing list about OpenEmbedded-Core (the core metadata).
> *	http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openembedded-devel - Discussion mailing list about OpenEmbedded.
> *	http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/bitbake-devel - Discussion mailing list about the BitBake build tool.
> *	http://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/poky - Discussion mailing list about Poky.
> *	http://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto-announce - Mailing list to receive official Yocto Project release and milestone announcements.
> 
> 
> This is what Paul is referring to by way of corrections.  I personally think
> it is useful to have something of a list in the Reference manual under this
> heading.  I don't think we need the exact same wordings though in the
> Reference manual as would be found in https://lists.yoctoproject.org/.  The
> stuff in the Reference manual should be general and give the reader an idea of
> the flavor of the lists.  I can update the reference manual to include a link
> to https://lists.yoctoproject.org/ for the final say on each list. 

Hrm, a wrench in the works. It is necessary to include non-yoctoproject.org
mailing lists in order to fully document where all patches for "the Yocto
Project" should go. As such, we can't rely on the lists.yoctoproject.org as the
sole point of documentation. As such, as I see it, the sources README or
MAINTAINERS files should be the definitive policy setter regarding where to send
patches. Of course there is more to define than just that.

Perhaps the best we can do is update the descriptions in mailman for the yp
lists and update the mailing lists page with those and the external lists. Many
people will look to the mailing lists page on the yp website before they look in
the reference manual.

Thoughts?

--
Darren


> 
> Scott
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Darren Hart [mailto:dvhart@linux.intel.com] 
> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 2:28 PM
> To: Paul Eggleton
> Cc: Yocto Project; Rifenbark, Scott M; Paul Gortmaker; Richard Purdie; Wold, Saul; Osier-mixon, Jeffrey; Zanussi, Tom; Hudson, Sean; Denys Dmytriyenko; Koen Kooi; Jason Kridner; Flanagan, Elizabeth; Michael Halstead
> Subject: Re: Documenting the mailing lists.
> 
> 
> 
> On 08/20/2012 02:26 PM, Paul Eggleton wrote:
>> On Monday 20 August 2012 11:43:38 Darren Hart wrote:
>>> Scott,
>>>
>>> We've come across some more confusion about mailing lists recently. I've
>>> sent a patch against poky to try and clear it up a bit in the source,
>>> but we should also see about cleaning up the web descriptions of the lists.
>>>
>>> We have two pages that describe the lists:
>>>
>>> http://www.yoctoproject.org/community/mailing-lists
>>> https://lists.yoctoproject.org/
>>>
>>> My first recommendation would be to eliminate
>>> http://www.yoctoproject.org/community/mailing-lists and replace links to
>>> it with links to https://lists.yoctoproject.org. This eliminates the
>>> need to keep the CMS version in sync with the mailman page. The mailman
>>> page should be considered the master anyway as the Description field is
>>> taken directly from the list administrative settings.
>>>
>>> We should then work to create meaningful Descriptions of all the lists.
>>> These should still fit on a single line, but I think we can improve on
>>> what we have. For example:
>>>
>>> meta-ti		Mailing list for the meta-ti layer
>>>
>>> is not particularly enlightening. Perhaps something like:
>>>
>>> meta-ti		Usage and development of the meta-ti layer
>>>
>>> If we do this all at once, we can also ensure a consistent language,
>>> tone, etc. I'll propose something for each list here and ask that
>>> interested parties comment and correct in reply. Once agreed upon, the
>>> admins of the respective lists can make the changes (all CC'd)
>>>
>>> Current:
>>> ========
>>> linux-yocto 	Development list for the linux-yocto*.git Linux kernel
>>> 		repositories
>>> meta-ti 	Mailing list for the meta-ti layer
>>> poky 		Poky build system developer discussion & patch
>>> 		submission for meta-yocto
>>> shoeleather 	Neutral Board Lab Mailing List
>>> yocto 		Discussion of all things Yocto
>>> yocto-ab 	Yocto Project Advisory Board
>>> yocto-advocacy 	Yocto Project Advocacy & Outreach AB Subgroup
>>> yocto-announce 	Announcements from the Yocto Project
>>> yocto-bsp 	BSP Interest Group
>>> Yocto-builds 	Build failures and discusion about the build system
>>> yocto-infrastructure 	Infrastructure
>>>
>>>
>>> Proposed:
>>> =========
>>> linux-yocto 	Development list for the linux-yocto*.git Linux kernel
>>> 		repositories
>>> meta-ti 	Usage and development list for the meta-ti layer
>>> poky 		Usage and development list for the Poky build system
>>> 		(see README for patch submission)
>>> shoeleather 	Neutral Board Lab Mailing List
>>>
>>> I'm not sure what "neutral" is meant to convey. How about:
>>>
>>> 		Discussion list for the Shoeleather embedded board lab
>>>
>>> yocto 		General discussion list for the Yocto Project and
>>> 		development for projects without dedicated lists
>>>
>>> I think the yocto list is a bit problematic in that it mixes project
>>> conceptual discussion, user help desk, and development all on the same
>>> list. However, I'm trying to clarify what these actually are here - not
>>> change anything.
>>>
>>> yocto-ab 	Yocto Project Advisory Board ???
>>>
>>> This should imply the intended audience. Is it just meant for members?
>>> Is it meant as a way for non-AB members to observe what is going on?
>>>
>>> yocto-advocacy 	Yocto Project advocacy & outreach AB subgroup
>>>
>>> Same as above.
>>>
>>> yocto-announce 	Announcements from the Yocto Project (low traffic)
>>> yocto-bsp 	BSP Interest Group ???
>>>
>>> There is no detailed description for this list, so I'm not sure what
>>> this is really about.
>>>
>>> Yocto-builds 	Build failures and discussion about the autobuilder
>>>
>>> (includes typo fix, "build system" removed to avoid confusion with the
>>> "poky build system")
>>>
>>> yocto-infrastructure 	Infrastructure ???
>>>
>>> Jefro or Michael, can you come up with something appropriate here?
>>>
>>>
>>> For lists where certain guidelines should be used in communications and
>>> patch submission, we should document that in the detailed description of
>>> the list, such as [project] tags for example.
>>
>> This is all good stuff, I'd just like to mention in case it is useful that I 
>> did update the list in the Reference Manual along with the information on how 
>> to contribute - which includes some direction on where to send patches. This 
>> is in the master version of the documentation but not the version currently 
>> shown on the website - we probably ought to fix that. We really ought to try to 
>> have all of this information consistent if at all possible.
> 
> Does it make sense to have this list in the reference manual? Should we
> perhaps just have it reference the README in the source (that way people
> can always see the current policy) and the long mailing list
> description? That reduces the redundancy to 2 from 4. Should be much
> easier to keep in sync.
> 

-- 
Darren Hart
Intel Open Source Technology Center
Yocto Project - Technical Lead - Linux Kernel

Re: Documenting the mailing lists.

[Rifenbark, Scott M]

Since the YP Reference Manual is the reference manual for YP I think we should retain the 12.3 section about mailing lists.  That said, maybe we should only list by name the general Yocto project discussion mailing list and then refer the reader to https://lists.yoctoproject.org/ for all related lists.  I still feel that we should have the general discussion mailing list at least named in the YP Reference Manual.

Scott

-----Original Message-----
From: Darren Hart [mailto:dvhart@linux.intel.com] 
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 3:04 PM
To: Rifenbark, Scott M
Cc: Paul Eggleton; Yocto Project; Paul Gortmaker; Richard Purdie; Wold, Saul; Osier-mixon, Jeffrey; Zanussi, Tom; Hudson, Sean; Denys Dmytriyenko; Koen Kooi; Jason Kridner; Flanagan, Elizabeth; Michael Halstead
Subject: Re: Documenting the mailing lists.



On 08/20/2012 02:34 PM, Rifenbark, Scott M wrote:
> Here is what it says in the Reference Manual:
> 
> 12.3. Mailing lists There are a number of mailing lists maintained by the
> Yocto Project as well as related OpenEmbedded mailing lists for discussion,
> patch submission and announcements. To subscribe to one of the following
> mailing lists, click on the appropriate URL in the following list and follow
> the instructions: 
> *	http://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto - General Yocto Project discussion mailing list. 
> *	http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openembedded-core - Discussion mailing list about OpenEmbedded-Core (the core metadata).
> *	http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openembedded-devel - Discussion mailing list about OpenEmbedded.
> *	http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/bitbake-devel - Discussion mailing list about the BitBake build tool.
> *	http://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/poky - Discussion mailing list about Poky.
> *	http://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto-announce - Mailing list to receive official Yocto Project release and milestone announcements.
> 
> 
> This is what Paul is referring to by way of corrections.  I personally think
> it is useful to have something of a list in the Reference manual under this
> heading.  I don't think we need the exact same wordings though in the
> Reference manual as would be found in https://lists.yoctoproject.org/.  The
> stuff in the Reference manual should be general and give the reader an idea of
> the flavor of the lists.  I can update the reference manual to include a link
> to https://lists.yoctoproject.org/ for the final say on each list. 

Hrm, a wrench in the works. It is necessary to include non-yoctoproject.org
mailing lists in order to fully document where all patches for "the Yocto
Project" should go. As such, we can't rely on the lists.yoctoproject.org as the
sole point of documentation. As such, as I see it, the sources README or
MAINTAINERS files should be the definitive policy setter regarding where to send
patches. Of course there is more to define than just that.

Perhaps the best we can do is update the descriptions in mailman for the yp
lists and update the mailing lists page with those and the external lists. Many
people will look to the mailing lists page on the yp website before they look in
the reference manual.

Thoughts?

--
Darren


> 
> Scott
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Darren Hart [mailto:dvhart@linux.intel.com] 
> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 2:28 PM
> To: Paul Eggleton
> Cc: Yocto Project; Rifenbark, Scott M; Paul Gortmaker; Richard Purdie; Wold, Saul; Osier-mixon, Jeffrey; Zanussi, Tom; Hudson, Sean; Denys Dmytriyenko; Koen Kooi; Jason Kridner; Flanagan, Elizabeth; Michael Halstead
> Subject: Re: Documenting the mailing lists.
> 
> 
> 
> On 08/20/2012 02:26 PM, Paul Eggleton wrote:
>> On Monday 20 August 2012 11:43:38 Darren Hart wrote:
>>> Scott,
>>>
>>> We've come across some more confusion about mailing lists recently. I've
>>> sent a patch against poky to try and clear it up a bit in the source,
>>> but we should also see about cleaning up the web descriptions of the lists.
>>>
>>> We have two pages that describe the lists:
>>>
>>> http://www.yoctoproject.org/community/mailing-lists
>>> https://lists.yoctoproject.org/
>>>
>>> My first recommendation would be to eliminate
>>> http://www.yoctoproject.org/community/mailing-lists and replace links to
>>> it with links to https://lists.yoctoproject.org. This eliminates the
>>> need to keep the CMS version in sync with the mailman page. The mailman
>>> page should be considered the master anyway as the Description field is
>>> taken directly from the list administrative settings.
>>>
>>> We should then work to create meaningful Descriptions of all the lists.
>>> These should still fit on a single line, but I think we can improve on
>>> what we have. For example:
>>>
>>> meta-ti		Mailing list for the meta-ti layer
>>>
>>> is not particularly enlightening. Perhaps something like:
>>>
>>> meta-ti		Usage and development of the meta-ti layer
>>>
>>> If we do this all at once, we can also ensure a consistent language,
>>> tone, etc. I'll propose something for each list here and ask that
>>> interested parties comment and correct in reply. Once agreed upon, the
>>> admins of the respective lists can make the changes (all CC'd)
>>>
>>> Current:
>>> ========
>>> linux-yocto 	Development list for the linux-yocto*.git Linux kernel
>>> 		repositories
>>> meta-ti 	Mailing list for the meta-ti layer
>>> poky 		Poky build system developer discussion & patch
>>> 		submission for meta-yocto
>>> shoeleather 	Neutral Board Lab Mailing List
>>> yocto 		Discussion of all things Yocto
>>> yocto-ab 	Yocto Project Advisory Board
>>> yocto-advocacy 	Yocto Project Advocacy & Outreach AB Subgroup
>>> yocto-announce 	Announcements from the Yocto Project
>>> yocto-bsp 	BSP Interest Group
>>> Yocto-builds 	Build failures and discusion about the build system
>>> yocto-infrastructure 	Infrastructure
>>>
>>>
>>> Proposed:
>>> =========
>>> linux-yocto 	Development list for the linux-yocto*.git Linux kernel
>>> 		repositories
>>> meta-ti 	Usage and development list for the meta-ti layer
>>> poky 		Usage and development list for the Poky build system
>>> 		(see README for patch submission)
>>> shoeleather 	Neutral Board Lab Mailing List
>>>
>>> I'm not sure what "neutral" is meant to convey. How about:
>>>
>>> 		Discussion list for the Shoeleather embedded board lab
>>>
>>> yocto 		General discussion list for the Yocto Project and
>>> 		development for projects without dedicated lists
>>>
>>> I think the yocto list is a bit problematic in that it mixes project
>>> conceptual discussion, user help desk, and development all on the same
>>> list. However, I'm trying to clarify what these actually are here - not
>>> change anything.
>>>
>>> yocto-ab 	Yocto Project Advisory Board ???
>>>
>>> This should imply the intended audience. Is it just meant for members?
>>> Is it meant as a way for non-AB members to observe what is going on?
>>>
>>> yocto-advocacy 	Yocto Project advocacy & outreach AB subgroup
>>>
>>> Same as above.
>>>
>>> yocto-announce 	Announcements from the Yocto Project (low traffic)
>>> yocto-bsp 	BSP Interest Group ???
>>>
>>> There is no detailed description for this list, so I'm not sure what
>>> this is really about.
>>>
>>> Yocto-builds 	Build failures and discussion about the autobuilder
>>>
>>> (includes typo fix, "build system" removed to avoid confusion with the
>>> "poky build system")
>>>
>>> yocto-infrastructure 	Infrastructure ???
>>>
>>> Jefro or Michael, can you come up with something appropriate here?
>>>
>>>
>>> For lists where certain guidelines should be used in communications and
>>> patch submission, we should document that in the detailed description of
>>> the list, such as [project] tags for example.
>>
>> This is all good stuff, I'd just like to mention in case it is useful that I 
>> did update the list in the Reference Manual along with the information on how 
>> to contribute - which includes some direction on where to send patches. This 
>> is in the master version of the documentation but not the version currently 
>> shown on the website - we probably ought to fix that. We really ought to try to 
>> have all of this information consistent if at all possible.
> 
> Does it make sense to have this list in the reference manual? Should we
> perhaps just have it reference the README in the source (that way people
> can always see the current policy) and the long mailing list
> description? That reduces the redundancy to 2 from 4. Should be much
> easier to keep in sync.
> 

-- 
Darren Hart
Intel Open Source Technology Center
Yocto Project - Technical Lead - Linux Kernel

Re: Documenting the mailing lists.

[Hudson, Sean]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Darren Hart [mailto:dvhart@linux.intel.com]
> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 1:44 PM
> To: Yocto Project
> Subject: Documenting the mailing lists.

> My first recommendation would be to eliminate
> http://www.yoctoproject.org/community/mailing-lists and replace links to
> it with links to https://lists.yoctoproject.org. This eliminates the
> need to keep the CMS version in sync with the mailman page. The mailman
> page should be considered the master anyway as the Description field is
> taken directly from the list administrative settings.
> 
> We should then work to create meaningful Descriptions of all the lists.
> These should still fit on a single line, but I think we can improve on
> what we have. For example:

> If we do this all at once, we can also ensure a consistent language,
> tone, etc. I'll propose something for each list here and ask that
> interested parties comment and correct in reply. Once agreed upon, the
> admins of the respective lists can make the changes (all CC'd)

[Hudson, Sean] Getting things more organized and topical sounds great to me.  Thanks for bringing this up.

> Proposed:
> =========
> shoeleather 	Neutral Board Lab Mailing List
> 
> I'm not sure what "neutral" is meant to convey. How about:
> 
> 		Discussion list for the Shoeleather embedded board lab
[Hudson, Sean] Sounds good to me. 

Re: Documenting the mailing lists.

[Michael Halstead]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 602 bytes --]

On 08/20/2012 02:40 PM, Hudson, Sean wrote:
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Darren Hart [mailto:dvhart@linux.intel.com]
>> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 1:44 PM
>> To: Yocto Project
>> Subject: Documenting the mailing lists.
>
> Proposed:
> =========
> shoeleather 	Neutral Board Lab Mailing List
>
> I'm not sure what "neutral" is meant to convey. How about:
>
> 		Discussion list for the Shoeleather embedded board lab
> [Hudson, Sean] Sounds good to me. 
>
>
I've updated the description at https://lists.yoctoproject.org/

Michael Halstead
Yocto Project / Sys Admin



[-- Attachment #2: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature --]
[-- Type: application/pkcs7-signature, Size: 4516 bytes --]

Re: Documenting the mailing lists.

[Darren Hart]

On 08/20/2012 02:56 PM, Michael Halstead wrote:
> On 08/20/2012 02:40 PM, Hudson, Sean wrote:
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Darren Hart [mailto:dvhart@linux.intel.com]
>>> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 1:44 PM
>>> To: Yocto Project
>>> Subject: Documenting the mailing lists.
>>
>> Proposed:
>> =========
>> shoeleather 	Neutral Board Lab Mailing List
>>
>> I'm not sure what "neutral" is meant to convey. How about:
>>
>> 		Discussion list for the Shoeleather embedded board lab
>> [Hudson, Sean] Sounds good to me. 
>>
>>
> I've updated the description at https://lists.yoctoproject.org/
> 

Thanks Michael, let's hold off on any additional changes until we've
been able to agree on the entire set, as we want to keep language,
tense, etc. consistent. No need to change them multiple times.

-- 
Darren Hart
Intel Open Source Technology Center
Yocto Project - Technical Lead - Linux Kernel

Re: Documenting the mailing lists.

[Jeff Osier-Mixon]

The mailing lists and website stuff is generally my responsibility,
but please fix anything you like. :)  Be aware that the new website is
under construction, so I am loathe to change much on the old website
at this point.  For the new one, it may be possible to dynamically
grab the description from mailman.

On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 3:06 PM, Darren Hart <dvhart@linux.intel.com> wrote:
>
>
> On 08/20/2012 02:56 PM, Michael Halstead wrote:
>> On 08/20/2012 02:40 PM, Hudson, Sean wrote:
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Darren Hart [mailto:dvhart@linux.intel.com]
>>>> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 1:44 PM
>>>> To: Yocto Project
>>>> Subject: Documenting the mailing lists.
>>>
>>> Proposed:
>>> =========
>>> shoeleather  Neutral Board Lab Mailing List
>>>
>>> I'm not sure what "neutral" is meant to convey. How about:
>>>
>>>              Discussion list for the Shoeleather embedded board lab
>>> [Hudson, Sean] Sounds good to me.
>>>
>>>
>> I've updated the description at https://lists.yoctoproject.org/
>>
>
> Thanks Michael, let's hold off on any additional changes until we've
> been able to agree on the entire set, as we want to keep language,
> tense, etc. consistent. No need to change them multiple times.
>
> --
> Darren Hart
> Intel Open Source Technology Center
> Yocto Project - Technical Lead - Linux Kernel
> _______________________________________________
> yocto mailing list
> yocto@yoctoproject.org
> https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto



-- 
Jeff Osier-Mixon http://jefro.net/blog
Yocto Project Community Manager @Intel http://yoctoproject.org

Re: Documenting the mailing lists.

[Darren Hart]

On 08/20/2012 03:18 PM, Jeff Osier-Mixon wrote:
> The mailing lists and website stuff is generally my responsibility,
> but please fix anything you like. :)  Be aware that the new website is

No intent to take over anything, I've just had to answer the "what goes
where" question a few too many times these last couple of weeks and felt
I should do something about it :-)

I made sure you were on CC so you could help guide this.

> under construction, so I am loathe to change much on the old website
> at this point.  For the new one, it may be possible to dynamically
> grab the description from mailman.

We'll still need descriptions of the non-yocto-project lists, so that
may not be particularly helpful.

--
Darren

> 
> On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 3:06 PM, Darren Hart <dvhart@linux.intel.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 08/20/2012 02:56 PM, Michael Halstead wrote:
>>> On 08/20/2012 02:40 PM, Hudson, Sean wrote:
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Darren Hart [mailto:dvhart@linux.intel.com]
>>>>> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 1:44 PM
>>>>> To: Yocto Project
>>>>> Subject: Documenting the mailing lists.
>>>>
>>>> Proposed:
>>>> =========
>>>> shoeleather  Neutral Board Lab Mailing List
>>>>
>>>> I'm not sure what "neutral" is meant to convey. How about:
>>>>
>>>>              Discussion list for the Shoeleather embedded board lab
>>>> [Hudson, Sean] Sounds good to me.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I've updated the description at https://lists.yoctoproject.org/
>>>
>>
>> Thanks Michael, let's hold off on any additional changes until we've
>> been able to agree on the entire set, as we want to keep language,
>> tense, etc. consistent. No need to change them multiple times.
>>
>> --
>> Darren Hart
>> Intel Open Source Technology Center
>> Yocto Project - Technical Lead - Linux Kernel
>> _______________________________________________
>> yocto mailing list
>> yocto@yoctoproject.org
>> https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Darren Hart
Intel Open Source Technology Center
Yocto Project - Technical Lead - Linux Kernel

Re: Documenting the mailing lists.

[Jeff Osier-Mixon]

On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 3:37 PM, Darren Hart <dvhart@linux.intel.com> wrote:
> On 08/20/2012 03:18 PM, Jeff Osier-Mixon wrote:
>> The mailing lists and website stuff is generally my responsibility,
>> but please fix anything you like. :)  Be aware that the new website is
>
> No intent to take over anything, I've just had to answer the "what goes
> where" question a few too many times these last couple of weeks and felt
> I should do something about it :-)

Oh, I'm not joking - please fix anything you want! or Scott or I can
do it. Thanks for getting the ball rolling. I'll catch up on this
thread.

> I made sure you were on CC so you could help guide this.
>
>> under construction, so I am loathe to change much on the old website
>> at this point.  For the new one, it may be possible to dynamically
>> grab the description from mailman.
>
> We'll still need descriptions of the non-yocto-project lists, so that
> may not be particularly helpful.

The only YP-related, non-YP lists I currently track are
openembedded-core and bitbake-devel.  Both are OE lists, and I have
recently volunteered to help admin, so can make sure they have valid
Descriptions. If there are other lists we should track, please let me
know and I'll add them to the pile.

>
> --
> Darren
>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 3:06 PM, Darren Hart <dvhart@linux.intel.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On 08/20/2012 02:56 PM, Michael Halstead wrote:
>>>> On 08/20/2012 02:40 PM, Hudson, Sean wrote:
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Darren Hart [mailto:dvhart@linux.intel.com]
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 1:44 PM
>>>>>> To: Yocto Project
>>>>>> Subject: Documenting the mailing lists.
>>>>>
>>>>> Proposed:
>>>>> =========
>>>>> shoeleather  Neutral Board Lab Mailing List
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not sure what "neutral" is meant to convey. How about:
>>>>>
>>>>>              Discussion list for the Shoeleather embedded board lab
>>>>> [Hudson, Sean] Sounds good to me.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> I've updated the description at https://lists.yoctoproject.org/
>>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks Michael, let's hold off on any additional changes until we've
>>> been able to agree on the entire set, as we want to keep language,
>>> tense, etc. consistent. No need to change them multiple times.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Darren Hart
>>> Intel Open Source Technology Center
>>> Yocto Project - Technical Lead - Linux Kernel
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> yocto mailing list
>>> yocto@yoctoproject.org
>>> https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Darren Hart
> Intel Open Source Technology Center
> Yocto Project - Technical Lead - Linux Kernel



-- 
Jeff Osier-Mixon http://jefro.net/blog
Yocto Project Community Manager @Intel http://yoctoproject.org

Re: Documenting the mailing lists.

[Darren Hart]

On 08/20/2012 03:43 PM, Jeff Osier-Mixon wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 3:37 PM, Darren Hart <dvhart@linux.intel.com> wrote:
>> On 08/20/2012 03:18 PM, Jeff Osier-Mixon wrote:
>>> The mailing lists and website stuff is generally my responsibility,
>>> but please fix anything you like. :)  Be aware that the new website is
>>
>> No intent to take over anything, I've just had to answer the "what goes
>> where" question a few too many times these last couple of weeks and felt
>> I should do something about it :-)
> 
> Oh, I'm not joking - please fix anything you want! or Scott or I can
> do it. Thanks for getting the ball rolling. I'll catch up on this
> thread.
> 
>> I made sure you were on CC so you could help guide this.
>>
>>> under construction, so I am loathe to change much on the old website
>>> at this point.  For the new one, it may be possible to dynamically
>>> grab the description from mailman.
>>
>> We'll still need descriptions of the non-yocto-project lists, so that
>> may not be particularly helpful.
> 
> The only YP-related, non-YP lists I currently track are
> openembedded-core and bitbake-devel.  Both are OE lists, and I have
> recently volunteered to help admin, so can make sure they have valid
> Descriptions. If there are other lists we should track, please let me
> know and I'll add them to the pile.
> 

The only additional one that we reference in the manual is:

*	http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openembedded-devel
- Discussion mailing list about OpenEmbedded.

I'm not sure we need reference it at all though, perhaps oe-core is
sufficient.

--
Darren

>>
>> --
>> Darren
>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 3:06 PM, Darren Hart <dvhart@linux.intel.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 08/20/2012 02:56 PM, Michael Halstead wrote:
>>>>> On 08/20/2012 02:40 PM, Hudson, Sean wrote:
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: Darren Hart [mailto:dvhart@linux.intel.com]
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 1:44 PM
>>>>>>> To: Yocto Project
>>>>>>> Subject: Documenting the mailing lists.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Proposed:
>>>>>> =========
>>>>>> shoeleather  Neutral Board Lab Mailing List
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not sure what "neutral" is meant to convey. How about:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>              Discussion list for the Shoeleather embedded board lab
>>>>>> [Hudson, Sean] Sounds good to me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> I've updated the description at https://lists.yoctoproject.org/
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks Michael, let's hold off on any additional changes until we've
>>>> been able to agree on the entire set, as we want to keep language,
>>>> tense, etc. consistent. No need to change them multiple times.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Darren Hart
>>>> Intel Open Source Technology Center
>>>> Yocto Project - Technical Lead - Linux Kernel
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> yocto mailing list
>>>> yocto@yoctoproject.org
>>>> https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Darren Hart
>> Intel Open Source Technology Center
>> Yocto Project - Technical Lead - Linux Kernel
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Darren Hart
Intel Open Source Technology Center
Yocto Project - Technical Lead - Linux Kernel

Re: Documenting the mailing lists.

[Paul Eggleton]

On Monday 20 August 2012 15:50:37 Darren Hart wrote:
> On 08/20/2012 03:43 PM, Jeff Osier-Mixon wrote:
> > On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 3:37 PM, Darren Hart <dvhart@linux.intel.com> 
wrote:
> >> On 08/20/2012 03:18 PM, Jeff Osier-Mixon wrote:
> >>> The mailing lists and website stuff is generally my responsibility,
> >>> but please fix anything you like. :)  Be aware that the new website is
> >> 
> >> No intent to take over anything, I've just had to answer the "what goes
> >> where" question a few too many times these last couple of weeks and felt
> >> I should do something about it :-)
> > 
> > Oh, I'm not joking - please fix anything you want! or Scott or I can
> > do it. Thanks for getting the ball rolling. I'll catch up on this
> > thread.
> > 
> >> I made sure you were on CC so you could help guide this.
> >> 
> >>> under construction, so I am loathe to change much on the old website
> >>> at this point.  For the new one, it may be possible to dynamically
> >>> grab the description from mailman.
> >> 
> >> We'll still need descriptions of the non-yocto-project lists, so that
> >> may not be particularly helpful.
> > 
> > The only YP-related, non-YP lists I currently track are
> > openembedded-core and bitbake-devel.  Both are OE lists, and I have
> > recently volunteered to help admin, so can make sure they have valid
> > Descriptions. If there are other lists we should track, please let me
> > know and I'll add them to the pile.
> 
> The only additional one that we reference in the manual is:
> 
> *	http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openembedded-devel
> - Discussion mailing list about OpenEmbedded.
> 
> I'm not sure we need reference it at all though, perhaps oe-core is
> sufficient.

FYI, the reason I added oe-devel is because it's the list that is used to 
discuss/submit patches for almost all OE community layers other than OE-Core 
and the ones that are hosted on yoctoproject.org.

Cheers,
Paul

--
Paul Eggleton
Intel Open Source Technology Centre

Re: Documenting the mailing lists.

[Darren Hart]

On 08/20/2012 04:19 PM, Paul Eggleton wrote:
> On Monday 20 August 2012 15:50:37 Darren Hart wrote:
>> On 08/20/2012 03:43 PM, Jeff Osier-Mixon wrote:
>>> On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 3:37 PM, Darren Hart <dvhart@linux.intel.com> 
> wrote:
>>>> On 08/20/2012 03:18 PM, Jeff Osier-Mixon wrote:
>>>>> The mailing lists and website stuff is generally my responsibility,
>>>>> but please fix anything you like. :)  Be aware that the new website is
>>>>
>>>> No intent to take over anything, I've just had to answer the "what goes
>>>> where" question a few too many times these last couple of weeks and felt
>>>> I should do something about it :-)
>>>
>>> Oh, I'm not joking - please fix anything you want! or Scott or I can
>>> do it. Thanks for getting the ball rolling. I'll catch up on this
>>> thread.
>>>
>>>> I made sure you were on CC so you could help guide this.
>>>>
>>>>> under construction, so I am loathe to change much on the old website
>>>>> at this point.  For the new one, it may be possible to dynamically
>>>>> grab the description from mailman.
>>>>
>>>> We'll still need descriptions of the non-yocto-project lists, so that
>>>> may not be particularly helpful.
>>>
>>> The only YP-related, non-YP lists I currently track are
>>> openembedded-core and bitbake-devel.  Both are OE lists, and I have
>>> recently volunteered to help admin, so can make sure they have valid
>>> Descriptions. If there are other lists we should track, please let me
>>> know and I'll add them to the pile.
>>
>> The only additional one that we reference in the manual is:
>>
>> *	http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openembedded-devel
>> - Discussion mailing list about OpenEmbedded.
>>
>> I'm not sure we need reference it at all though, perhaps oe-core is
>> sufficient.
> 
> FYI, the reason I added oe-devel is because it's the list that is used to 
> discuss/submit patches for almost all OE community layers other than OE-Core 
> and the ones that are hosted on yoctoproject.org.

Fair enough.

-- 
Darren Hart
Intel Open Source Technology Center
Yocto Project - Technical Lead - Linux Kernel