[lm-sensors] Strange temperature of AMD FX4100 cpu and power consumption

[lm-sensors] Strange temperature of AMD FX4100 cpu and power consumption

[Andreas Hartmann]

Hello,

I'm getting this temperature after more than one hour of activity
(mostly idle, load of the machine is: 0,11, 0,17, 0,21):

sensors
k10temp-pci-00c3
Adapter: PCI adapter
temp1:        +14.5°C  (high = +70.0°C)
                       (crit = +70.0°C, hyst = +67.0°C)

14.5°C is completely impossible as the surrounding temperature is
> 20°C.


fam15h_power-pci-00c4
Adapter: PCI adapter
power1:       85.74 W

I read about this value, which would be the power consumption of the
CPU. If this would be correct, my cpu wouldn't be a cpu but a light bulb
:-) and the fan would most probably run on maximum speed non stop (which
it doesn't do - it's running on minimum).

CPU:       AMD FX(tm)-4100 Quad-Core Processor
Board:     Gigabyte GA-990XA-UD3
Bios:      Award F11 05/17/2012
Kernel:    3.4.10-1.1-desktop 64 bit (openSUSE)
lmsensors: sensors-3.3.2-55.1.x86_64


Do you need more information about the hardware? Feel free to ask!




Thanks for any hint,
kind regards,
Andreas Hartmann

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Re: [lm-sensors] Strange temperature of AMD FX4100 cpu and power consumption

[Guenter Roeck]

On Sat, Sep 08, 2012 at 06:34:16PM +0200, Andreas Hartmann wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I'm getting this temperature after more than one hour of activity
> (mostly idle, load of the machine is: 0,11, 0,17, 0,21):
> 
> sensors
> k10temp-pci-00c3
> Adapter: PCI adapter
> temp1:        +14.5°C  (high = +70.0°C)
>                        (crit = +70.0°C, hyst = +67.0°C)
> 
> 14.5°C is completely impossible as the surrounding temperature is
> > 20°C.
> 
> 
> fam15h_power-pci-00c4
> Adapter: PCI adapter
> power1:       85.74 W
> 
> I read about this value, which would be the power consumption of the
> CPU. If this would be correct, my cpu wouldn't be a cpu but a light bulb
> :-) and the fan would most probably run on maximum speed non stop (which
> it doesn't do - it's running on minimum).
> 
If they have a built-in AC unit, both temperature and power consumption would
make sense. Hmm ... maybe I should apply for a patent on that idea :).

> CPU:       AMD FX(tm)-4100 Quad-Core Processor
> Board:     Gigabyte GA-990XA-UD3
> Bios:      Award F11 05/17/2012
> Kernel:    3.4.10-1.1-desktop 64 bit (openSUSE)
> lmsensors: sensors-3.3.2-55.1.x86_64
> 
> 
> Do you need more information about the hardware? Feel free to ask!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for any hint,
> kind regards,
> Andreas Hartmann
> 
Copying the driver maintainers for feedback.

Guenter

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Re: [lm-sensors] Strange temperature of AMD FX4100 cpu and power consumption

[Clemens Ladisch]

Guenter Roeck wrote:
> On Sat, Sep 08, 2012 at 06:34:16PM +0200, Andreas Hartmann wrote:
>> I'm getting this temperature after more than one hour of activity
>> (mostly idle, load of the machine is: 0,11, 0,17, 0,21):
>>
>> temp1:        +14.5°C  (high = +70.0°C)
>>
>> 14.5°C is completely impossible as the surrounding temperature is
>> > 20°C.

Documentation/hwmon/k10temp says:
| There is one temperature measurement value, available as temp1_input in
| sysfs. It is measured in degrees Celsius with a resolution of 1/8th degree.
| Please note that it is defined as a relative value; to quote the AMD manual:
|
|   Tctl is the processor temperature control value, used by the platform to
|   control cooling systems. Tctl is a non-physical temperature on an
|   arbitrary scale measured in degrees. It does _not_ represent an actual
|   physical temperature like die or case temperature. Instead, it specifies
|   the processor temperature relative to the point at which the system must
|   supply the maximum cooling for the processor's specified maximum case
|   temperature and maximum thermal power dissipation.


Regards,
Clemens

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Re: [lm-sensors] Strange temperature of AMD FX4100 cpu and power consumption

[Andreas Hartmann]

Clemens Ladisch wrote:
> Guenter Roeck wrote:
>> On Sat, Sep 08, 2012 at 06:34:16PM +0200, Andreas Hartmann wrote:
>>> I'm getting this temperature after more than one hour of activity
>>> (mostly idle, load of the machine is: 0,11, 0,17, 0,21):
>>>
>>> temp1:        +14.5°C  (high = +70.0°C)
>>>
>>> 14.5°C is completely impossible as the surrounding temperature is
>>>> 20°C.
> 
> Documentation/hwmon/k10temp says:
> | There is one temperature measurement value, available as temp1_input in
> | sysfs. It is measured in degrees Celsius with a resolution of 1/8th degree.
> | Please note that it is defined as a relative value; to quote the AMD manual:
> |
> |   Tctl is the processor temperature control value, used by the platform to
> |   control cooling systems. Tctl is a non-physical temperature on an
> |   arbitrary scale measured in degrees. It does _not_ represent an actual
> |   physical temperature like die or case temperature. Instead, it specifies
> |   the processor temperature relative to the point at which the system must
> |   supply the maximum cooling for the processor's specified maximum case
> |   temperature and maximum thermal power dissipation.
> 

I already read this, too.

My point of view is: If sensors says: "temp1: +14.5°C (high: +70°C)"
then it is a temperature of +14.5°C and nothing else. If this value
isn't a physical temperature (like the room temperature e.g.), why is it
called temperature if it isn't one?

However, if it is an instrument to manage a fan (or maybe a complete
cooling system), I most probably would use a percentaged value, which
reveals something about the actual required cooling capacity for the
individual system.
At least it would avoid misunderstanding IMHO.


jm2c,
thanks,
kind regards,
Andreas Hartmann

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Re: [lm-sensors] Strange temperature of AMD FX4100 cpu and power consumption

[Andreas Hartmann]

Guenter Roeck wrote:
> On Sat, Sep 08, 2012 at 06:34:16PM +0200, Andreas Hartmann wrote:
>> Hello,
>> 
>> I'm getting this temperature after more than one hour of
>> activity (mostly idle, load of the machine is: 0,11, 0,17,
>> 0,21):
>> 
>> sensors k10temp-pci-00c3 Adapter: PCI adapter temp1:
>> +14.5°C  (high = +70.0°C) (crit = +70.0°C, hyst = +67.0°C)
>> 
>> 14.5°C is completely impossible as the surrounding temperature
>> is
>>> 20°C.
>> 
>> 
>> fam15h_power-pci-00c4 Adapter: PCI adapter power1:       85.74 W
>> 
>> I read about this value, which would be the power consumption of
>> the CPU. If this would be correct, my cpu wouldn't be a cpu but a
>> light bulb :-) and the fan would most probably run on maximum
>> speed non stop (which it doesn't do - it's running on minimum).
>> 
> If they have a built-in AC unit, both temperature and power
> consumption would make sense. Hmm ... maybe I should apply for a
> patent on that idea :).

Yeah, that's true! Nice idea! Unfortunately, there isn't any built in
AC unit :-(


Regards,
Andreas

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Re: [lm-sensors] Strange temperature of AMD FX4100 cpu and power consumption

[Jean Delvare]

On Sat, 08 Sep 2012 21:15:21 +0200, Andreas Hartmann wrote:
> Clemens Ladisch wrote:
> > Guenter Roeck wrote:
> >> On Sat, Sep 08, 2012 at 06:34:16PM +0200, Andreas Hartmann wrote:
> >>> I'm getting this temperature after more than one hour of activity
> >>> (mostly idle, load of the machine is: 0,11, 0,17, 0,21):
> >>>
> >>> temp1:        +14.5°C  (high = +70.0°C)
> >>>
> >>> 14.5°C is completely impossible as the surrounding temperature is
> >>>> 20°C.
> > 
> > Documentation/hwmon/k10temp says:
> > | There is one temperature measurement value, available as temp1_input in
> > | sysfs. It is measured in degrees Celsius with a resolution of 1/8th degree.
> > | Please note that it is defined as a relative value; to quote the AMD manual:
> > |
> > |   Tctl is the processor temperature control value, used by the platform to
> > |   control cooling systems. Tctl is a non-physical temperature on an
> > |   arbitrary scale measured in degrees. It does _not_ represent an actual
> > |   physical temperature like die or case temperature. Instead, it specifies
> > |   the processor temperature relative to the point at which the system must
> > |   supply the maximum cooling for the processor's specified maximum case
> > |   temperature and maximum thermal power dissipation.
> 
> I already read this, too.
> 
> My point of view is: If sensors says: "temp1: +14.5°C (high: +70°C)"
> then it is a temperature of +14.5°C and nothing else. If this value
> isn't a physical temperature (like the room temperature e.g.), why is it
> called temperature if it isn't one?

Because the maintainers of that code (and I mean the driver, the whole
subsystem, the user-space library and many user-space applications)
have a limited time to devote to ill-designed hardware. You think you
can do better? Join the development team, design the interface, write
the code.

> However, if it is an instrument to manage a fan (or maybe a complete
> cooling system), I most probably would use a percentaged value, which
> reveals something about the actual required cooling capacity for the
> individual system.
> At least it would avoid misunderstanding IMHO.

The text Clemens quoted and you claim you have read, is supposed to
avoid misunderstanding. Sure, the current situation is not perfect, but
the alternative currently is between that and nothing. Most users have
told us they prefer that to nothing. If you don't agree, just don't
user the driver. If anyone wants to add support for relative, arbitrary
unit temperature sensors to the whole monitoring stack, they are
welcome to contribute the code.

Good night,
-- 
Jean Delvare

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Re: [lm-sensors] Strange temperature of AMD FX4100 cpu and power consumption

[Andreas Herrmann]

On Sat, Sep 08, 2012 at 09:50:25AM -0700, Guenter Roeck wrote:
> On Sat, Sep 08, 2012 at 06:34:16PM +0200, Andreas Hartmann wrote:

  [...]

> > fam15h_power-pci-00c4
> > Adapter: PCI adapter
> > power1:       85.74 W
> > 
> > I read about this value, which would be the power consumption of the
> > CPU. If this would be correct, my cpu wouldn't be a cpu but a light bulb
> > :-) and the fan would most probably run on maximum speed non stop (which
> > it doesn't do - it's running on minimum).
> > 
> If they have a built-in AC unit, both temperature and power consumption would
> make sense. Hmm ... maybe I should apply for a patent on that idea :).
> 
> > CPU:       AMD FX(tm)-4100 Quad-Core Processor
> > Board:     Gigabyte GA-990XA-UD3
> > Bios:      Award F11 05/17/2012
> > Kernel:    3.4.10-1.1-desktop 64 bit (openSUSE)
> > lmsensors: sensors-3.3.2-55.1.x86_64
> > 
> > 
> > Do you need more information about the hardware? Feel free to ask!

What's the output of

  # setpci -s 18.5 0xe0.l

on this system?


Thanks,
Andreas


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Re: [lm-sensors] Strange temperature of AMD FX4100 cpu and power consumption

[Andreas Hartmann]

Andreas Herrmann wrote:
> On Sat, Sep 08, 2012 at 09:50:25AM -0700, Guenter Roeck wrote:
>> On Sat, Sep 08, 2012 at 06:34:16PM +0200, Andreas Hartmann wrote:
> 
>   [...]
> 
>>> fam15h_power-pci-00c4
>>> Adapter: PCI adapter
>>> power1:       85.74 W
>>>
>>> I read about this value, which would be the power consumption of the
>>> CPU. If this would be correct, my cpu wouldn't be a cpu but a light bulb
>>> :-) and the fan would most probably run on maximum speed non stop (which
>>> it doesn't do - it's running on minimum).
>>>
>> If they have a built-in AC unit, both temperature and power consumption would
>> make sense. Hmm ... maybe I should apply for a patent on that idea :).
>>
>>> CPU:       AMD FX(tm)-4100 Quad-Core Processor
>>> Board:     Gigabyte GA-990XA-UD3
>>> Bios:      Award F11 05/17/2012
>>> Kernel:    3.4.10-1.1-desktop 64 bit (openSUSE)
>>> lmsensors: sensors-3.3.2-55.1.x86_64
>>>
>>>
>>> Do you need more information about the hardware? Feel free to ask!
> 
> What's the output of
> 
>   # setpci -s 18.5 0xe0.l

# setpci -s 18.5 0xe0.l
003930c9


Thanks,
kind regards,
Andreas

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Re: [lm-sensors] Strange temperature of AMD FX4100 cpu and power consumption

[Andreas Hartmann]

Andreas Herrmann wrote:
> On Sat, Sep 08, 2012 at 09:50:25AM -0700, Guenter Roeck wrote:
>> On Sat, Sep 08, 2012 at 06:34:16PM +0200, Andreas Hartmann wrote:
> 
>   [...]
> 
>>> fam15h_power-pci-00c4
>>> Adapter: PCI adapter
>>> power1:       85.74 W
>>>
>>> I read about this value, which would be the power consumption of the
>>> CPU. If this would be correct, my cpu wouldn't be a cpu but a light bulb
>>> :-) and the fan would most probably run on maximum speed non stop (which
>>> it doesn't do - it's running on minimum).
>>>
>> If they have a built-in AC unit, both temperature and power consumption would
>> make sense. Hmm ... maybe I should apply for a patent on that idea :).
>>
>>> CPU:       AMD FX(tm)-4100 Quad-Core Processor
>>> Board:     Gigabyte GA-990XA-UD3
>>> Bios:      Award F11 05/17/2012
>>> Kernel:    3.4.10-1.1-desktop 64 bit (openSUSE)
>>> lmsensors: sensors-3.3.2-55.1.x86_64
>>>
>>>
>>> Do you need more information about the hardware? Feel free to ask!
> 
> What's the output of
> 
>   # setpci -s 18.5 0xe0.l

Hmm, a few hours later and one s2ram / resume cycle in between, the
power value is broken again. It's showing constantly
	power1:       85.74 W
in idle mode. setpci now says:

00fff83e (first try)

00fffffe (all other tries)


As I did it a few hours ago, I got 003930c9 and the reported values have
been between 26 W and 40 W (sounds reasonable to me) - before and after
entering setpci.



Thanks,
kind regards,
Andreas Hartmann

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Re: [lm-sensors] Strange temperature of AMD FX4100 cpu and power consumption

[Guenter Roeck]

On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 09:13:46PM +0200, Andreas Hartmann wrote:
> Andreas Herrmann wrote:
> > On Sat, Sep 08, 2012 at 09:50:25AM -0700, Guenter Roeck wrote:
> >> On Sat, Sep 08, 2012 at 06:34:16PM +0200, Andreas Hartmann wrote:
> > 
> >   [...]
> > 
> >>> fam15h_power-pci-00c4
> >>> Adapter: PCI adapter
> >>> power1:       85.74 W
> >>>
> >>> I read about this value, which would be the power consumption of the
> >>> CPU. If this would be correct, my cpu wouldn't be a cpu but a light bulb
> >>> :-) and the fan would most probably run on maximum speed non stop (which
> >>> it doesn't do - it's running on minimum).
> >>>
> >> If they have a built-in AC unit, both temperature and power consumption would
> >> make sense. Hmm ... maybe I should apply for a patent on that idea :).
> >>
> >>> CPU:       AMD FX(tm)-4100 Quad-Core Processor
> >>> Board:     Gigabyte GA-990XA-UD3
> >>> Bios:      Award F11 05/17/2012
> >>> Kernel:    3.4.10-1.1-desktop 64 bit (openSUSE)
> >>> lmsensors: sensors-3.3.2-55.1.x86_64
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Do you need more information about the hardware? Feel free to ask!
> > 
> > What's the output of
> > 
> >   # setpci -s 18.5 0xe0.l
> 
> Hmm, a few hours later and one s2ram / resume cycle in between, the
> power value is broken again. It's showing constantly
> 	power1:       85.74 W
> in idle mode. setpci now says:
> 
> 00fff83e (first try)
> 
> 00fffffe (all other tries)
> 
> 
> As I did it a few hours ago, I got 003930c9 and the reported values have
> been between 26 W and 40 W (sounds reasonable to me) - before and after
> entering setpci.
> 
Looking into the driver, I suspect the power meter configuration might not
survive a suspend/resume cycle. What do you see after a complete reboot ?

Thanks,
Guenter

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Re: [lm-sensors] Strange temperature of AMD FX4100 cpu and power consumption

[Andreas Herrmann]

On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 09:13:46PM +0200, Andreas Hartmann wrote:
> Andreas Herrmann wrote:
> > On Sat, Sep 08, 2012 at 09:50:25AM -0700, Guenter Roeck wrote:
> >> On Sat, Sep 08, 2012 at 06:34:16PM +0200, Andreas Hartmann wrote:
> > 
> >   [...]
> > 
> >>> fam15h_power-pci-00c4
> >>> Adapter: PCI adapter
> >>> power1:       85.74 W
> >>>
> >>> I read about this value, which would be the power consumption of the
> >>> CPU. If this would be correct, my cpu wouldn't be a cpu but a light bulb
> >>> :-) and the fan would most probably run on maximum speed non stop (which
> >>> it doesn't do - it's running on minimum).
> >>>
> >> If they have a built-in AC unit, both temperature and power consumption would
> >> make sense. Hmm ... maybe I should apply for a patent on that idea :).
> >>
> >>> CPU:       AMD FX(tm)-4100 Quad-Core Processor
> >>> Board:     Gigabyte GA-990XA-UD3
> >>> Bios:      Award F11 05/17/2012
> >>> Kernel:    3.4.10-1.1-desktop 64 bit (openSUSE)
> >>> lmsensors: sensors-3.3.2-55.1.x86_64
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Do you need more information about the hardware? Feel free to ask!
> > 
> > What's the output of
> > 
> >   # setpci -s 18.5 0xe0.l
> 
> Hmm, a few hours later and one s2ram / resume cycle in between, the
> power value is broken again. It's showing constantly
> 	power1:       85.74 W
> in idle mode. setpci now says:
> 
> 00fff83e (first try)
> 
> 00fffffe (all other tries)
> 
> 
> As I did it a few hours ago, I got 003930c9 and the reported values have
> been between 26 W and 40 W (sounds reasonable to me) - before and after
> entering setpci.

We had added a quirk to set a different initialization value for the
running average range register (It's 0xe after resume on your box, we
set it to 0x9, see also your mail where you reported 0x003930c9 for
the setpci command output.)

 commit 00250ec90963b7ef6678438888f3244985ecde14
 Author: Andre Przywara <andre.przywara@amd.com>
 Date:   Mon Apr 9 18:16:34 2012 -0400

    hwmon: fam15h_power: fix bogus values with current BIOSes

So it seems that the quirk explicitly needs to be applied
on resume. (as the BIOS restores the old bogus value)

Thanks for testing.
Will look at how to address this with a patch.


Regards,
Andreas


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Re: [lm-sensors] Strange temperature of AMD FX4100 cpu and power consumption

[Andreas Hartmann]

Guenter Roeck wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 09:13:46PM +0200, Andreas Hartmann wrote:
>> Andreas Herrmann wrote:
>>> On Sat, Sep 08, 2012 at 09:50:25AM -0700, Guenter Roeck wrote:
>>>> On Sat, Sep 08, 2012 at 06:34:16PM +0200, Andreas Hartmann
>>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> [...]
>>> 
>>>>> fam15h_power-pci-00c4 Adapter: PCI adapter power1:
>>>>> 85.74 W
>>>>> 
>>>>> I read about this value, which would be the power
>>>>> consumption of the CPU. If this would be correct, my cpu
>>>>> wouldn't be a cpu but a light bulb :-) and the fan would
>>>>> most probably run on maximum speed non stop (which it
>>>>> doesn't do - it's running on minimum).
>>>>> 
>>>> If they have a built-in AC unit, both temperature and power
>>>> consumption would make sense. Hmm ... maybe I should apply
>>>> for a patent on that idea :).
>>>> 
>>>>> CPU:       AMD FX(tm)-4100 Quad-Core Processor Board:
>>>>> Gigabyte GA-990XA-UD3 Bios:      Award F11 05/17/2012 
>>>>> Kernel:    3.4.10-1.1-desktop 64 bit (openSUSE) lmsensors:
>>>>> sensors-3.3.2-55.1.x86_64
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Do you need more information about the hardware? Feel free
>>>>> to ask!
>>> 
>>> What's the output of
>>> 
>>> # setpci -s 18.5 0xe0.l
>> 
>> Hmm, a few hours later and one s2ram / resume cycle in between,
>> the power value is broken again. It's showing constantly power1:
>> 85.74 W in idle mode. setpci now says:
>> 
>> 00fff83e (first try)
>> 
>> 00fffffe (all other tries)
>> 
>> 
>> As I did it a few hours ago, I got 003930c9 and the reported
>> values have been between 26 W and 40 W (sounds reasonable to me)
>> - before and after entering setpci.
>> 
> Looking into the driver, I suspect the power meter configuration
> might not survive a suspend/resume cycle. What do you see after a
> complete reboot ?

After reboot (from running machine or from power off to power on), the
values are as expected (= ok).


Regards,
Andreas

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Re: [lm-sensors] Strange temperature of AMD FX4100 cpu and power consumption

[Andreas Hartmann]

Andreas Herrmann wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 09:13:46PM +0200, Andreas Hartmann wrote:
>> Andreas Herrmann wrote:
>>> On Sat, Sep 08, 2012 at 09:50:25AM -0700, Guenter Roeck wrote:
>>>> On Sat, Sep 08, 2012 at 06:34:16PM +0200, Andreas Hartmann wrote:
>>>
>>>   [...]
>>>
>>>>> fam15h_power-pci-00c4
>>>>> Adapter: PCI adapter
>>>>> power1:       85.74 W
>>>>>
>>>>> I read about this value, which would be the power consumption of the
>>>>> CPU. If this would be correct, my cpu wouldn't be a cpu but a light bulb
>>>>> :-) and the fan would most probably run on maximum speed non stop (which
>>>>> it doesn't do - it's running on minimum).
>>>>>
>>>> If they have a built-in AC unit, both temperature and power consumption would
>>>> make sense. Hmm ... maybe I should apply for a patent on that idea :).
>>>>
>>>>> CPU:       AMD FX(tm)-4100 Quad-Core Processor
>>>>> Board:     Gigabyte GA-990XA-UD3
>>>>> Bios:      Award F11 05/17/2012
>>>>> Kernel:    3.4.10-1.1-desktop 64 bit (openSUSE)
>>>>> lmsensors: sensors-3.3.2-55.1.x86_64
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you need more information about the hardware? Feel free to ask!
>>>
>>> What's the output of
>>>
>>>   # setpci -s 18.5 0xe0.l
>>
>> Hmm, a few hours later and one s2ram / resume cycle in between, the
>> power value is broken again. It's showing constantly
>> 	power1:       85.74 W
>> in idle mode. setpci now says:
>>
>> 00fff83e (first try)
>>
>> 00fffffe (all other tries)
>>
>>
>> As I did it a few hours ago, I got 003930c9 and the reported values have
>> been between 26 W and 40 W (sounds reasonable to me) - before and after
>> entering setpci.
> 
> We had added a quirk to set a different initialization value for the
> running average range register (It's 0xe after resume on your box, we
> set it to 0x9, see also your mail where you reported 0x003930c9 for
> the setpci command output.)
> 
>  commit 00250ec90963b7ef6678438888f3244985ecde14
>  Author: Andre Przywara <andre.przywara@amd.com>
>  Date:   Mon Apr 9 18:16:34 2012 -0400
> 
>     hwmon: fam15h_power: fix bogus values with current BIOSes
> 
> So it seems that the quirk explicitly needs to be applied
> on resume. (as the BIOS restores the old bogus value)

I explicitly tested it for s2ram/resume and it's really like this:
- before s2ram/resume: values are ok
- after resume: the value is constantly broken as reported.

> Thanks for testing.

No matter.

> Will look at how to address this with a patch.

I could test your patch if you like it.



Thanks,
kind regards,
Andreas Hartmann

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