* IMHO, cross-compile/toolchain examples should use non-x86 arches
@ 2012-12-16 16:55 Robert P. J. Day
2012-12-16 22:57 ` Sean Liming
0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: Robert P. J. Day @ 2012-12-16 16:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Yocto discussion list
a general preference on my part, but i think it would be useful if
any yocto docs that are discussing toolchains or cross-compilation or
the like use *non*-x86 architectures to get the point across.
for example, consider the current application developer's guide.
part of it uses, as an example, the toolchain installer
poky-eglibc-x86_64-i586-toolchain-gmae-1.4.sh. while this works just
fine, of course, what it does is potentially co-mingle both the dev
host content and target host content, making it harder than necessary
for the reader to draw a clear distinction between the two.
if any example related to compilation or a toolchain involves, say,
an *arm* target, then it's *immediately* obvious (using the "file"
command) whether something belongs on the dev host or on the target.
also, if you're using x86 for both dev content and target content,
you run the risk of an example working by accident since you're
picking up natively-installed tools when you shouldn't be. if you use
a non-x86 arch, there's little chance of that happening.
just my $0.02 (Cdn).
rday
--
========================================================================
Robert P. J. Day Ottawa, Ontario, CANADA
http://crashcourse.ca
Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday
LinkedIn: http://ca.linkedin.com/in/rpjday
========================================================================
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread* Re: IMHO, cross-compile/toolchain examples should use non-x86 arches 2012-12-16 16:55 IMHO, cross-compile/toolchain examples should use non-x86 arches Robert P. J. Day @ 2012-12-16 22:57 ` Sean Liming 2012-12-17 15:48 ` Mark Hatle 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Sean Liming @ 2012-12-16 22:57 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 'Robert P. J. Day', 'Yocto discussion list' My 2c (USD) is for clarity on ADT vs. SDK vs. Toolchain. Regards, Sean Liming Owner Annabooks Tel: 714-970-7523 / Cell: 858-774-3176 > -----Original Message----- > From: yocto-bounces@yoctoproject.org [mailto:yocto- > bounces@yoctoproject.org] On Behalf Of Robert P. J. Day > Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 8:55 AM > To: Yocto discussion list > Subject: [yocto] IMHO, cross-compile/toolchain examples should use non- > x86 arches > > > a general preference on my part, but i think it would be useful if any yocto > docs that are discussing toolchains or cross-compilation or the like use > *non*-x86 architectures to get the point across. > > for example, consider the current application developer's guide. > part of it uses, as an example, the toolchain installer poky-eglibc-x86_64-i586- > toolchain-gmae-1.4.sh. while this works just fine, of course, what it does is > potentially co-mingle both the dev host content and target host content, > making it harder than necessary for the reader to draw a clear distinction > between the two. > > if any example related to compilation or a toolchain involves, say, an *arm* > target, then it's *immediately* obvious (using the "file" > command) whether something belongs on the dev host or on the target. > > also, if you're using x86 for both dev content and target content, you run > the risk of an example working by accident since you're picking up natively- > installed tools when you shouldn't be. if you use a non-x86 arch, there's little > chance of that happening. > > just my $0.02 (Cdn). > > rday > > > -- > > ========================================================== > ============== > Robert P. J. Day Ottawa, Ontario, CANADA > http://crashcourse.ca > > Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday > LinkedIn: http://ca.linkedin.com/in/rpjday > ========================================================== > ============== > _______________________________________________ > yocto mailing list > yocto@yoctoproject.org > https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: IMHO, cross-compile/toolchain examples should use non-x86 arches 2012-12-16 22:57 ` Sean Liming @ 2012-12-17 15:48 ` Mark Hatle 2012-12-17 16:40 ` Zhang, Jessica 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Mark Hatle @ 2012-12-17 15:48 UTC (permalink / raw) To: yocto On 12/16/12 4:57 PM, Sean Liming wrote: > > My 2c (USD) is for clarity on ADT vs. SDK vs. Toolchain. The biggest clarify problem I've seen is the terms being intermingled. There are clear definitions for each. Toolchain, the compiler and related tools that enable compiling software for a given target. SDK - Software Development Kit - On OE-Core this purpose of this is to enable developing software to be run on a specific target environment, generally also constructed from OE-Core. The SDK consists of three primary components: 1) environment setup files - these configure the compilation environment with the right settings 2) nativesdk software - these are applications that run on the -host- system to assist in compiling software for the target (this includes the target toolchain.) 3) target sysroot - The sysroot is the collection of libraries, headers and assorted items that are compiled for the target. A sysroot is setup in a similar fashion as a target's root filesystem. ADT - Application Developer Tool - This is an Eclipse component that can use the SDK, generated by OE-Core, to enable application development within the Eclipse framework. (I may be slightly wrong on this item, as people have told me in the past there are command line parts to the ADT.... but the ADT itself is -not- the SDK.) --Mark > Regards, > > Sean Liming > Owner > Annabooks > Tel: 714-970-7523 / Cell: 858-774-3176 > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: yocto-bounces@yoctoproject.org [mailto:yocto- >> bounces@yoctoproject.org] On Behalf Of Robert P. J. Day >> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 8:55 AM >> To: Yocto discussion list >> Subject: [yocto] IMHO, cross-compile/toolchain examples should use non- >> x86 arches >> >> >> a general preference on my part, but i think it would be useful if any > yocto >> docs that are discussing toolchains or cross-compilation or the like use >> *non*-x86 architectures to get the point across. >> >> for example, consider the current application developer's guide. >> part of it uses, as an example, the toolchain installer > poky-eglibc-x86_64-i586- >> toolchain-gmae-1.4.sh. while this works just fine, of course, what it > does is >> potentially co-mingle both the dev host content and target host content, >> making it harder than necessary for the reader to draw a clear distinction >> between the two. >> >> if any example related to compilation or a toolchain involves, say, an > *arm* >> target, then it's *immediately* obvious (using the "file" >> command) whether something belongs on the dev host or on the target. >> >> also, if you're using x86 for both dev content and target content, you > run >> the risk of an example working by accident since you're picking up > natively- >> installed tools when you shouldn't be. if you use a non-x86 arch, there's > little >> chance of that happening. >> >> just my $0.02 (Cdn). >> >> rday >> >> >> -- >> >> ========================================================== >> ============== >> Robert P. J. Day Ottawa, Ontario, CANADA >> http://crashcourse.ca >> >> Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday >> LinkedIn: http://ca.linkedin.com/in/rpjday >> ========================================================== >> ============== >> _______________________________________________ >> yocto mailing list >> yocto@yoctoproject.org >> https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto > > _______________________________________________ > yocto mailing list > yocto@yoctoproject.org > https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: IMHO, cross-compile/toolchain examples should use non-x86 arches 2012-12-17 15:48 ` Mark Hatle @ 2012-12-17 16:40 ` Zhang, Jessica 2012-12-18 17:36 ` Sean Liming 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Zhang, Jessica @ 2012-12-17 16:40 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Mark Hatle, yocto@yoctoproject.org Or in Yocto Project context, we kind of use ADT more inclusive that referring what Mark talked about SDK, the eclipse plug-in and other developers tools. And we don't call out SDK that much. --Jessica -----Original Message----- From: yocto-bounces@yoctoproject.org [mailto:yocto-bounces@yoctoproject.org] On Behalf Of Mark Hatle Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 7:48 AM To: yocto@yoctoproject.org Subject: Re: [yocto] IMHO, cross-compile/toolchain examples should use non-x86 arches On 12/16/12 4:57 PM, Sean Liming wrote: > > My 2c (USD) is for clarity on ADT vs. SDK vs. Toolchain. The biggest clarify problem I've seen is the terms being intermingled. There are clear definitions for each. Toolchain, the compiler and related tools that enable compiling software for a given target. SDK - Software Development Kit - On OE-Core this purpose of this is to enable developing software to be run on a specific target environment, generally also constructed from OE-Core. The SDK consists of three primary components: 1) environment setup files - these configure the compilation environment with the right settings 2) nativesdk software - these are applications that run on the -host- system to assist in compiling software for the target (this includes the target toolchain.) 3) target sysroot - The sysroot is the collection of libraries, headers and assorted items that are compiled for the target. A sysroot is setup in a similar fashion as a target's root filesystem. ADT - Application Developer Tool - This is an Eclipse component that can use the SDK, generated by OE-Core, to enable application development within the Eclipse framework. (I may be slightly wrong on this item, as people have told me in the past there are command line parts to the ADT.... but the ADT itself is -not- the SDK.) --Mark > Regards, > > Sean Liming > Owner > Annabooks > Tel: 714-970-7523 / Cell: 858-774-3176 > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: yocto-bounces@yoctoproject.org [mailto:yocto- >> bounces@yoctoproject.org] On Behalf Of Robert P. J. Day >> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 8:55 AM >> To: Yocto discussion list >> Subject: [yocto] IMHO, cross-compile/toolchain examples should use >> non- >> x86 arches >> >> >> a general preference on my part, but i think it would be useful if >> any > yocto >> docs that are discussing toolchains or cross-compilation or the like >> use >> *non*-x86 architectures to get the point across. >> >> for example, consider the current application developer's guide. >> part of it uses, as an example, the toolchain installer > poky-eglibc-x86_64-i586- >> toolchain-gmae-1.4.sh. while this works just fine, of course, what >> it > does is >> potentially co-mingle both the dev host content and target host >> content, making it harder than necessary for the reader to draw a >> clear distinction between the two. >> >> if any example related to compilation or a toolchain involves, >> say, an > *arm* >> target, then it's *immediately* obvious (using the "file" >> command) whether something belongs on the dev host or on the target. >> >> also, if you're using x86 for both dev content and target content, >> you > run >> the risk of an example working by accident since you're picking up > natively- >> installed tools when you shouldn't be. if you use a non-x86 arch, >> there's > little >> chance of that happening. >> >> just my $0.02 (Cdn). >> >> rday >> >> >> -- >> >> ========================================================== >> ============== >> Robert P. J. Day Ottawa, Ontario, CANADA >> http://crashcourse.ca >> >> Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday >> LinkedIn: http://ca.linkedin.com/in/rpjday >> ========================================================== >> ============== >> _______________________________________________ >> yocto mailing list >> yocto@yoctoproject.org >> https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto > > _______________________________________________ > yocto mailing list > yocto@yoctoproject.org > https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto > _______________________________________________ yocto mailing list yocto@yoctoproject.org https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: IMHO, cross-compile/toolchain examples should use non-x86 arches 2012-12-17 16:40 ` Zhang, Jessica @ 2012-12-18 17:36 ` Sean Liming 2012-12-18 17:53 ` Zhang, Jessica 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Sean Liming @ 2012-12-18 17:36 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 'Zhang, Jessica', 'Mark Hatle', yocto Jessica and Mark, Thank you for the responses. It appears that there is another thread on the same subject. Let me feedback what I am seeing and hearing: The quick start guide (http://www.yoctoproject.org/docs/current/yocto-project-qs/yocto-project-qs. html) and various presentation slides showing the Poky Work Flow / Yocto Project Development Environment show an output of the image and Application Development SDK. When I include the option to build the SDK in a Yoicto1.3 Danny build, I see in the /../tmp/deploy/sdk is the ADT installer. To me the ADT installer installs the toolchain and the rootfs to build applications. Also, the ADT installer only installs a rootfs based on pre-set images like core-image-sato, core-image-minimal, etc., and doesn't address a custom rootfs that may have more or less support than the standard images. The Eclipse plug in adds the capability to Eclipse to link to the toolchain and rootfs installed by the ADT installer. Does this sound correct? Regards, Sean Liming Owner Annabooks Tel: 714-970-7523 / Cell: 858-774-3176 > -----Original Message----- > From: yocto-bounces@yoctoproject.org [mailto:yocto- > bounces@yoctoproject.org] On Behalf Of Zhang, Jessica > Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 8:40 AM > To: Mark Hatle; yocto@yoctoproject.org > Subject: Re: [yocto] IMHO, cross-compile/toolchain examples should use > non-x86 arches > > Or in Yocto Project context, we kind of use ADT more inclusive that referring > what Mark talked about SDK, the eclipse plug-in and other developers tools. > And we don't call out SDK that much. > > --Jessica > > -----Original Message----- > From: yocto-bounces@yoctoproject.org [mailto:yocto- > bounces@yoctoproject.org] On Behalf Of Mark Hatle > Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 7:48 AM > To: yocto@yoctoproject.org > Subject: Re: [yocto] IMHO, cross-compile/toolchain examples should use > non-x86 arches > > On 12/16/12 4:57 PM, Sean Liming wrote: > > > > My 2c (USD) is for clarity on ADT vs. SDK vs. Toolchain. > > The biggest clarify problem I've seen is the terms being intermingled. There > are clear definitions for each. > > Toolchain, the compiler and related tools that enable compiling software for > a given target. > > SDK - Software Development Kit - On OE-Core this purpose of this is to > enable developing software to be run on a specific target environment, > generally also constructed from OE-Core. The SDK consists of three primary > components: > 1) environment setup files - these configure the compilation environment > with the right settings > 2) nativesdk software - these are applications that run on the -host- system > to assist in compiling software for the target (this includes the target > toolchain.) > 3) target sysroot - The sysroot is the collection of libraries, headers and > assorted items that are compiled for the target. A sysroot is setup in a similar > fashion as a target's root filesystem. > > ADT - Application Developer Tool - This is an Eclipse component that can use > the SDK, generated by OE-Core, to enable application development within > the Eclipse framework. (I may be slightly wrong on this item, as people have > told me in the past there are command line parts to the ADT.... but the ADT > itself is -not- the > SDK.) > > --Mark > > > Regards, > > > > Sean Liming > > Owner > > Annabooks > > Tel: 714-970-7523 / Cell: 858-774-3176 > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: yocto-bounces@yoctoproject.org [mailto:yocto- > >> bounces@yoctoproject.org] On Behalf Of Robert P. J. Day > >> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 8:55 AM > >> To: Yocto discussion list > >> Subject: [yocto] IMHO, cross-compile/toolchain examples should use > >> non- > >> x86 arches > >> > >> > >> a general preference on my part, but i think it would be useful if > >> any > > yocto > >> docs that are discussing toolchains or cross-compilation or the like > >> use > >> *non*-x86 architectures to get the point across. > >> > >> for example, consider the current application developer's guide. > >> part of it uses, as an example, the toolchain installer > > poky-eglibc-x86_64-i586- > >> toolchain-gmae-1.4.sh. while this works just fine, of course, what > >> it > > does is > >> potentially co-mingle both the dev host content and target host > >> content, making it harder than necessary for the reader to draw a > >> clear distinction between the two. > >> > >> if any example related to compilation or a toolchain involves, > >> say, an > > *arm* > >> target, then it's *immediately* obvious (using the "file" > >> command) whether something belongs on the dev host or on the target. > >> > >> also, if you're using x86 for both dev content and target content, > >> you > > run > >> the risk of an example working by accident since you're picking up > > natively- > >> installed tools when you shouldn't be. if you use a non-x86 arch, > >> there's > > little > >> chance of that happening. > >> > >> just my $0.02 (Cdn). > >> > >> rday > >> > >> > >> -- > >> > >> > ========================================================== > >> ============== > >> Robert P. J. Day Ottawa, Ontario, CANADA > >> http://crashcourse.ca > >> > >> Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday > >> LinkedIn: http://ca.linkedin.com/in/rpjday > >> > ========================================================== > >> ============== > >> _______________________________________________ > >> yocto mailing list > >> yocto@yoctoproject.org > >> https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto > > > > _______________________________________________ > > yocto mailing list > > yocto@yoctoproject.org > > https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto > > > > _______________________________________________ > yocto mailing list > yocto@yoctoproject.org > https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto > _______________________________________________ > yocto mailing list > yocto@yoctoproject.org > https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: IMHO, cross-compile/toolchain examples should use non-x86 arches 2012-12-18 17:36 ` Sean Liming @ 2012-12-18 17:53 ` Zhang, Jessica 0 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread From: Zhang, Jessica @ 2012-12-18 17:53 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Sean Liming, 'Mark Hatle', yocto@yoctoproject.org Hi Sean, Your summary is correct as far as current ADT installer's capabilities goes. I think in the ADT manual we talked about besides using ADT installer to setup an application cross development environment, user can also using a toolchain tarball. This is discussed in another email thread atm. Originally the toolchain tarball sysroot is pretty much canned so very limited for user to customize to match their target images. For 1.3, Mark has added the capability to generate the toolchain tarball that matching the target image via bitbake -c populate_sdk image. As far as eclipse plug-in goes, you can specify you desired toolchain and sysroot combination whether they're installed via adt-installer or toolchain tarball. BTW, one of the features that we will be working on for adt-installer is to make it base on sstate instead of the current opkg and ipk adt-repo. In this way, we eliminate the dependency on particular ipk package format also, gives user the flexibility to customized their sysroot instead of the the predefined images rootfs. Thanks, Jessica -----Original Message----- From: Sean Liming [mailto:sean.liming@annabooks.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2012 9:36 AM To: Zhang, Jessica; 'Mark Hatle'; yocto@yoctoproject.org Subject: RE: [yocto] IMHO, cross-compile/toolchain examples should use non-x86 arches Jessica and Mark, Thank you for the responses. It appears that there is another thread on the same subject. Let me feedback what I am seeing and hearing: The quick start guide (http://www.yoctoproject.org/docs/current/yocto-project-qs/yocto-project-qs. html) and various presentation slides showing the Poky Work Flow / Yocto Project Development Environment show an output of the image and Application Development SDK. When I include the option to build the SDK in a Yoicto1.3 Danny build, I see in the /../tmp/deploy/sdk is the ADT installer. To me the ADT installer installs the toolchain and the rootfs to build applications. Also, the ADT installer only installs a rootfs based on pre-set images like core-image-sato, core-image-minimal, etc., and doesn't address a custom rootfs that may have more or less support than the standard images. The Eclipse plug in adds the capability to Eclipse to link to the toolchain and rootfs installed by the ADT installer. Does this sound correct? Regards, Sean Liming Owner Annabooks Tel: 714-970-7523 / Cell: 858-774-3176 > -----Original Message----- > From: yocto-bounces@yoctoproject.org [mailto:yocto- > bounces@yoctoproject.org] On Behalf Of Zhang, Jessica > Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 8:40 AM > To: Mark Hatle; yocto@yoctoproject.org > Subject: Re: [yocto] IMHO, cross-compile/toolchain examples should use > non-x86 arches > > Or in Yocto Project context, we kind of use ADT more inclusive that referring > what Mark talked about SDK, the eclipse plug-in and other developers tools. > And we don't call out SDK that much. > > --Jessica > > -----Original Message----- > From: yocto-bounces@yoctoproject.org [mailto:yocto- > bounces@yoctoproject.org] On Behalf Of Mark Hatle > Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 7:48 AM > To: yocto@yoctoproject.org > Subject: Re: [yocto] IMHO, cross-compile/toolchain examples should use > non-x86 arches > > On 12/16/12 4:57 PM, Sean Liming wrote: > > > > My 2c (USD) is for clarity on ADT vs. SDK vs. Toolchain. > > The biggest clarify problem I've seen is the terms being intermingled. There > are clear definitions for each. > > Toolchain, the compiler and related tools that enable compiling > software for > a given target. > > SDK - Software Development Kit - On OE-Core this purpose of this is to > enable developing software to be run on a specific target environment, > generally also constructed from OE-Core. The SDK consists of three primary > components: > 1) environment setup files - these configure the compilation environment > with the right settings > 2) nativesdk software - these are applications that run on the > -host- system > to assist in compiling software for the target (this includes the > target > toolchain.) > 3) target sysroot - The sysroot is the collection of libraries, > headers and > assorted items that are compiled for the target. A sysroot is setup > in a similar > fashion as a target's root filesystem. > > ADT - Application Developer Tool - This is an Eclipse component that > can use > the SDK, generated by OE-Core, to enable application development > within the Eclipse framework. (I may be slightly wrong on this item, > as people have > told me in the past there are command line parts to the ADT.... but > the ADT > itself is -not- the > SDK.) > > --Mark > > > Regards, > > > > Sean Liming > > Owner > > Annabooks > > Tel: 714-970-7523 / Cell: 858-774-3176 > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: yocto-bounces@yoctoproject.org [mailto:yocto- > >> bounces@yoctoproject.org] On Behalf Of Robert P. J. Day > >> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 8:55 AM > >> To: Yocto discussion list > >> Subject: [yocto] IMHO, cross-compile/toolchain examples should use > >> non- > >> x86 arches > >> > >> > >> a general preference on my part, but i think it would be useful > >> if any > > yocto > >> docs that are discussing toolchains or cross-compilation or the > >> like use > >> *non*-x86 architectures to get the point across. > >> > >> for example, consider the current application developer's guide. > >> part of it uses, as an example, the toolchain installer > > poky-eglibc-x86_64-i586- > >> toolchain-gmae-1.4.sh. while this works just fine, of course, what > >> it > > does is > >> potentially co-mingle both the dev host content and target host > >> content, making it harder than necessary for the reader to draw a > >> clear distinction between the two. > >> > >> if any example related to compilation or a toolchain involves, > >> say, an > > *arm* > >> target, then it's *immediately* obvious (using the "file" > >> command) whether something belongs on the dev host or on the target. > >> > >> also, if you're using x86 for both dev content and target > >> content, you > > run > >> the risk of an example working by accident since you're picking up > > natively- > >> installed tools when you shouldn't be. if you use a non-x86 arch, > >> there's > > little > >> chance of that happening. > >> > >> just my $0.02 (Cdn). > >> > >> rday > >> > >> > >> -- > >> > >> > ========================================================== > >> ============== > >> Robert P. J. Day Ottawa, Ontario, CANADA > >> http://crashcourse.ca > >> > >> Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday > >> LinkedIn: http://ca.linkedin.com/in/rpjday > >> > ========================================================== > >> ============== > >> _______________________________________________ > >> yocto mailing list > >> yocto@yoctoproject.org > >> https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto > > > > _______________________________________________ > > yocto mailing list > > yocto@yoctoproject.org > > https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto > > > > _______________________________________________ > yocto mailing list > yocto@yoctoproject.org > https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto > _______________________________________________ > yocto mailing list > yocto@yoctoproject.org > https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2012-12-18 17:54 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 6+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2012-12-16 16:55 IMHO, cross-compile/toolchain examples should use non-x86 arches Robert P. J. Day 2012-12-16 22:57 ` Sean Liming 2012-12-17 15:48 ` Mark Hatle 2012-12-17 16:40 ` Zhang, Jessica 2012-12-18 17:36 ` Sean Liming 2012-12-18 17:53 ` Zhang, Jessica
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