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From: "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>
To: Matthew Garrett <matthew.garrett@nebula.com>
Cc: Casey Schaufler <casey@schaufler-ca.com>,
	Borislav Petkov <bp@alien8.de>, Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org>,
	LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@redhat.com>, "x86@kernel.org" <x86@kernel.org>,
	"linux-efi@vger.kernel.org" <linux-efi@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-security-module <linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] x86: Lock down MSR writing in secure boot
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 10:44:31 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <511BDF0F.2000005@zytor.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1360778179.18083.42.camel@x230.lan>

On 02/13/2013 09:56 AM, Matthew Garrett wrote:
> On Wed, 2013-02-13 at 09:51 -0800, Casey Schaufler wrote:
>> On 2/13/2013 9:26 AM, Matthew Garrett wrote:
>>> Admit that CAP_SYS_RAWIO is fucked up beyond rescue. Add a new
>>> capability with well-defined semantics.
>>
>> You can't add a new capability where there is an existing capability
>> that can be remotely argued to be appropriate.
>
> CAP_SYS_RAWIO can't be argued to be appropriate. It covers a range of
> functionality that doesn't permit the running kernel to be modified and
> which is required to provide a functional Linux system. Using it would
> require redefining its existing usage, which would break existing
> userspace.
>

So people have piggybacked complete inappropriate junk onto 
CAP_SYS_RAWIO.  Great.  What the hell do we do now?  We can't break 
apart CAP_SYS_RAWIO because we don't have hierarchical capabilities.

We thus have a bunch of unpalatable choices, **all of which are wrong**.

This, incidentally, is *exactly* the reason I object to 
CAP_COMPROMISE_KERNEL as well... it describes a usage model, not a resource.

	-hpa

-- 
H. Peter Anvin, Intel Open Source Technology Center
I work for Intel.  I don't speak on their behalf.


WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>
To: Matthew Garrett <matthew.garrett@nebula.com>
Cc: Casey Schaufler <casey@schaufler-ca.com>,
	Borislav Petkov <bp@alien8.de>, Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org>,
	LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@redhat.com>, "x86@kernel.org" <x86@kernel.org>,
	"linux-efi@vger.kernel.org" <linux-efi@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-security-module <linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] x86: Lock down MSR writing in secure boot
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 10:44:31 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <511BDF0F.2000005@zytor.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1360778179.18083.42.camel@x230.lan>

On 02/13/2013 09:56 AM, Matthew Garrett wrote:
> On Wed, 2013-02-13 at 09:51 -0800, Casey Schaufler wrote:
>> On 2/13/2013 9:26 AM, Matthew Garrett wrote:
>>> Admit that CAP_SYS_RAWIO is fucked up beyond rescue. Add a new
>>> capability with well-defined semantics.
>>
>> You can't add a new capability where there is an existing capability
>> that can be remotely argued to be appropriate.
>
> CAP_SYS_RAWIO can't be argued to be appropriate. It covers a range of
> functionality that doesn't permit the running kernel to be modified and
> which is required to provide a functional Linux system. Using it would
> require redefining its existing usage, which would break existing
> userspace.
>

So people have piggybacked complete inappropriate junk onto 
CAP_SYS_RAWIO.  Great.  What the hell do we do now?  We can't break 
apart CAP_SYS_RAWIO because we don't have hierarchical capabilities.

We thus have a bunch of unpalatable choices, **all of which are wrong**.

This, incidentally, is *exactly* the reason I object to 
CAP_COMPROMISE_KERNEL as well... it describes a usage model, not a resource.

	-hpa

-- 
H. Peter Anvin, Intel Open Source Technology Center
I work for Intel.  I don't speak on their behalf.


  reply	other threads:[~2013-02-13 18:44 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 84+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2013-02-08 19:12 [PATCH] x86: Lock down MSR writing in secure boot Kees Cook
2013-02-08 19:17 ` H. Peter Anvin
     [not found]   ` <00780235-deac-4f80-b936-867834e05661-2ueSQiBKiTY7tOexoI0I+QC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org>
2013-02-08 19:18     ` Kees Cook
2013-02-08 19:18       ` Kees Cook
2013-02-08 19:42       ` H. Peter Anvin
2013-02-08 20:14         ` Kees Cook
     [not found]           ` <CAGXu5j+_mGzR+72YqORhErMUY1aF1H2urczZ8SwuJHZK-oZL6g-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2013-02-08 20:18             ` H. Peter Anvin
2013-02-08 20:18               ` H. Peter Anvin
2013-02-08 20:28               ` Kees Cook
     [not found]                 ` <CAGXu5jLAufTRm=sDST0br_WEkn4o0Hpjv2jDP2Na=cCvuM+MGg-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2013-02-08 20:34                   ` Matthew Garrett
2013-02-08 20:34                     ` Matthew Garrett
2013-02-08 21:02                     ` Kees Cook
2013-02-08 21:02                       ` Kees Cook
     [not found]                       ` <CAGXu5jKo2PfMBO4A0ZgQcrPuj8OHNaff+CjAesOAWkZc0vB9+Q-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2013-02-08 21:07                         ` Matthew Garrett
2013-02-08 21:07                           ` Matthew Garrett
     [not found]                           ` <1360357636.18083.19.camel-+5W/JHIUVxg@public.gmane.org>
2013-02-08 21:14                             ` Josh Boyer
2013-02-08 21:14                               ` Josh Boyer
2013-02-08 23:09                               ` Andy Lutomirski
2013-02-08 22:30                         ` H. Peter Anvin
2013-02-08 22:30                           ` H. Peter Anvin
2013-02-08 23:06                           ` Borislav Petkov
2013-02-08 23:26                             ` Matthew Garrett
2013-02-08 23:26                               ` Matthew Garrett
     [not found]                               ` <1360366012.18083.21.camel-+5W/JHIUVxg@public.gmane.org>
2013-02-09  1:22                                 ` H. Peter Anvin
2013-02-09  1:22                                   ` H. Peter Anvin
2013-02-09  1:29                                   ` Matthew Garrett
2013-02-09  1:29                                     ` Matthew Garrett
     [not found]                                     ` <1360373383.18083.23.camel-+5W/JHIUVxg@public.gmane.org>
2013-02-09  6:45                                       ` Kees Cook
2013-02-09  6:45                                         ` Kees Cook
     [not found]                                         ` <CAGXu5j+xvJ3L5ejxtZ-Jw3F6rV7OsrE0_HZCGu_er0rH2_PwKA-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2013-02-09  9:29                                           ` Borislav Petkov
2013-02-09  9:29                                             ` Borislav Petkov
2013-02-09 15:10                                             ` Kees Cook
     [not found]                                             ` <20130209092925.GA17728-fF5Pk5pvG8Y@public.gmane.org>
2013-02-09 15:11                                               ` Matthew Garrett
2013-02-09 15:11                                                 ` Matthew Garrett
2013-02-13  0:48                                                 ` H. Peter Anvin
2013-02-13  5:39                                                   ` Matthew Garrett
2013-02-13  5:39                                                     ` Matthew Garrett
     [not found]                                                     ` <1360733962.18083.30.camel-+5W/JHIUVxg@public.gmane.org>
2013-02-13  6:12                                                       ` H. Peter Anvin
2013-02-13  6:12                                                         ` H. Peter Anvin
2013-02-13  6:27                                                         ` Matthew Garrett
2013-02-13  6:27                                                           ` Matthew Garrett
2013-02-13  6:33                                                           ` H. Peter Anvin
     [not found]                                                             ` <511B33BC.9080307-YMNOUZJC4hwAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2013-02-13  6:41                                                               ` Matthew Garrett
2013-02-13  6:41                                                                 ` Matthew Garrett
     [not found]                                                                 ` <1360737709.18083.36.camel-+5W/JHIUVxg@public.gmane.org>
2013-02-13 17:20                                                                   ` H. Peter Anvin
2013-02-13 17:20                                                                     ` H. Peter Anvin
2013-02-13 17:26                                                                     ` Matthew Garrett
2013-02-13 17:26                                                                       ` Matthew Garrett
2013-02-13 17:51                                                                       ` Casey Schaufler
2013-02-13 17:51                                                                         ` Casey Schaufler
     [not found]                                                                         ` <511BD291.1040003-iSGtlc1asvQWG2LlvL+J4A@public.gmane.org>
2013-02-13 17:56                                                                           ` Matthew Garrett
2013-02-13 17:56                                                                             ` Matthew Garrett
2013-02-13 18:44                                                                             ` H. Peter Anvin [this message]
2013-02-13 18:44                                                                               ` H. Peter Anvin
2013-02-13 18:51                                                                               ` Matthew Garrett
2013-02-13 18:51                                                                                 ` Matthew Garrett
2013-02-13 22:26                                                                         ` H. Peter Anvin
2013-02-13 22:26                                                                           ` H. Peter Anvin
2013-02-13 22:58                                                                           ` Casey Schaufler
2013-02-13 22:58                                                                             ` Casey Schaufler
     [not found]                                                                             ` <511C1A94.8020804-iSGtlc1asvQWG2LlvL+J4A@public.gmane.org>
2013-02-14  0:25                                                                               ` H. Peter Anvin
2013-02-14  0:25                                                                                 ` H. Peter Anvin
2013-02-14  0:44                                                                                 ` Casey Schaufler
2013-02-14  0:44                                                                                   ` Casey Schaufler
     [not found]                                                                                   ` <511C3389.5090604-iSGtlc1asvQWG2LlvL+J4A@public.gmane.org>
2013-02-14  1:04                                                                                     ` Matthew Garrett
2013-02-14  1:04                                                                                       ` Matthew Garrett
     [not found]                                                                                       ` <1360803872.18083.46.camel-+5W/JHIUVxg@public.gmane.org>
2013-02-14  1:08                                                                                         ` H. Peter Anvin
2013-02-14  1:08                                                                                           ` H. Peter Anvin
     [not found]                                                                                           ` <511C3927.90603-YMNOUZJC4hwAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2013-02-14  2:46                                                                                             ` Matthew Garrett
2013-02-14  2:46                                                                                               ` Matthew Garrett
2013-02-14  1:34                                                                                       ` Casey Schaufler
2013-02-14  1:34                                                                                         ` Casey Schaufler
2013-02-13  8:27                                                             ` Paolo Bonzini
2013-02-13 17:21                                                               ` H. Peter Anvin
     [not found]                                                               ` <511B4E61.1040604-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2013-02-13 17:22                                                                 ` H. Peter Anvin
2013-02-13 17:22                                                                   ` H. Peter Anvin
2013-02-13 19:55                                                                   ` Paolo Bonzini
     [not found]                                                                   ` <511B EFAD.1050206@redhat.com>
     [not found]                                                                     ` <511BEFAD.1050206-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2013-02-13 22:24                                                                       ` H. Peter Anvin
2013-02-13 22:24                                                                         ` H. Peter Anvin
2013-02-08 19:17 ` Matthew Garrett
2013-02-08 19:17   ` Matthew Garrett
2013-02-08 19:21   ` Kees Cook
     [not found]     ` <CAGXu5j+aXxQb_Jyn6G+JUdjNOF2EGo9pTw8dBYuZUTb+S1vWow-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2013-02-08 19:27       ` Matthew Garrett
2013-02-08 19:27         ` Matthew Garrett

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