Spice as alternative to vnc also on pv domU

Spice as alternative to vnc also on pv domU

[Fabio Fantoni]

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I'm using Spice on my xen test system since end of 2011.
Spice is better than vnc for use on maintenance tasks and better than 
nx/x2go/rdp installed on domU (even better when used with vdagent and 
usb redirection).

That should be possibile because also pv use qemu for vnc but I don't 
unsterstand exactly how to implement it.
Is anybody out there interested in this task or already done it?

Thanks for any reply



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Re: Spice as alternative to vnc also on pv domU

[Stefano Stabellini]

On Fri, 26 Apr 2013, Fabio Fantoni wrote:
> I'm using Spice on my xen test system since end of 2011.
> Spice is better than vnc for use on maintenance tasks and better than
> nx/x2go/rdp installed on domU (even better when used with vdagent and usb
> redirection).
> 
> That should be possibile because also pv use qemu for vnc but I don't
> unsterstand exactly how to implement it.
> Is anybody out there interested in this task or already done it?

At the moment we are in code freeze for the Xen 4.3 release so it is
unlikely that anybody is going to take up this task right now.
We can try to see of we manage to raise any interest around it during
the Xen 4.4 release cycle.

Re: Spice as alternative to vnc also on pv domU

[George Dunlap]

On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 3:04 PM, Fabio Fantoni <fantonifabio@tiscali.it> wrote:
> I'm using Spice on my xen test system since end of 2011.
> Spice is better than vnc for use on maintenance tasks and better than
> nx/x2go/rdp installed on domU (even better when used with vdagent and usb
> redirection).
>
> That should be possibile because also pv use qemu for vnc but I don't
> unsterstand exactly how to implement it.
> Is anybody out there interested in this task or already done it?
>
> Thanks for any reply

Have you added this to the uservoice page? http://xenorg.uservoice.com

That's currently where I'm keeping track of all my ideas for future
work.  (I realize it doesn't seem to get a lot of attention, but it is
on our radar.)

 -George

Re: Spice as alternative to vnc also on pv domU

[George Dunlap]

On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 3:04 PM, Fabio Fantoni <fantonifabio@tiscali.it> wrote:
> I'm using Spice on my xen test system since end of 2011.
> Spice is better than vnc for use on maintenance tasks and better than
> nx/x2go/rdp installed on domU (even better when used with vdagent and usb
> redirection).
>
> That should be possibile because also pv use qemu for vnc but I don't
> unsterstand exactly how to implement it.
> Is anybody out there interested in this task or already done it?

Upon further reflection though -- it seems like the best thing to do
would be just to install spice servers in your PV guest.

 -George

Re: Spice as alternative to vnc also on pv domU

[Stefano Stabellini]

On Mon, 29 Apr 2013, George Dunlap wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 3:04 PM, Fabio Fantoni <fantonifabio@tiscali.it> wrote:
> > I'm using Spice on my xen test system since end of 2011.
> > Spice is better than vnc for use on maintenance tasks and better than
> > nx/x2go/rdp installed on domU (even better when used with vdagent and usb
> > redirection).
> >
> > That should be possibile because also pv use qemu for vnc but I don't
> > unsterstand exactly how to implement it.
> > Is anybody out there interested in this task or already done it?
> 
> Upon further reflection though -- it seems like the best thing to do
> would be just to install spice servers in your PV guest.

And apparently it even exists!
The spice server used to be part of QEMU/KVM and not available
separately, but looking at http://spice-space.org/download.html, now
they have an "Xspice" server that probably does exactly what you need.

Otherwise implementing spice for PV guests could be non-trivial: spice
relies on a virtual graphic card called QXL, similar to a virtio device.
Typically Virtio devices work over PCI (even though other transport
mechanisms exist), and PV guests don't even have a PCI bus.

Re: Spice as alternative to vnc also on pv domU

[Pasi Kärkkäinen]

On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 11:13:58AM +0100, Stefano Stabellini wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Apr 2013, George Dunlap wrote:
> > On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 3:04 PM, Fabio Fantoni <fantonifabio@tiscali.it> wrote:
> > > I'm using Spice on my xen test system since end of 2011.
> > > Spice is better than vnc for use on maintenance tasks and better than
> > > nx/x2go/rdp installed on domU (even better when used with vdagent and usb
> > > redirection).
> > >
> > > That should be possibile because also pv use qemu for vnc but I don't
> > > unsterstand exactly how to implement it.
> > > Is anybody out there interested in this task or already done it?
> > 
> > Upon further reflection though -- it seems like the best thing to do
> > would be just to install spice servers in your PV guest.
> 
> And apparently it even exists!
> The spice server used to be part of QEMU/KVM and not available
> separately, but looking at http://spice-space.org/download.html, now
> they have an "Xspice" server that probably does exactly what you need.
> 
> Otherwise implementing spice for PV guests could be non-trivial: spice
> relies on a virtual graphic card called QXL, similar to a virtio device.
> Typically Virtio devices work over PCI (even though other transport
> mechanisms exist), and PV guests don't even have a PCI bus.
> 

Hmm I thought spice works also *without* QXL ? 
So PV domUs could have spice without QXL ? 

-- Pasi

Re: Spice as alternative to vnc also on pv domU

[Stefano Stabellini]

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On Mon, 29 Apr 2013, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 11:13:58AM +0100, Stefano Stabellini wrote:
> > On Mon, 29 Apr 2013, George Dunlap wrote:
> > > On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 3:04 PM, Fabio Fantoni <fantonifabio@tiscali.it> wrote:
> > > > I'm using Spice on my xen test system since end of 2011.
> > > > Spice is better than vnc for use on maintenance tasks and better than
> > > > nx/x2go/rdp installed on domU (even better when used with vdagent and usb
> > > > redirection).
> > > >
> > > > That should be possibile because also pv use qemu for vnc but I don't
> > > > unsterstand exactly how to implement it.
> > > > Is anybody out there interested in this task or already done it?
> > > 
> > > Upon further reflection though -- it seems like the best thing to do
> > > would be just to install spice servers in your PV guest.
> > 
> > And apparently it even exists!
> > The spice server used to be part of QEMU/KVM and not available
> > separately, but looking at http://spice-space.org/download.html, now
> > they have an "Xspice" server that probably does exactly what you need.
> > 
> > Otherwise implementing spice for PV guests could be non-trivial: spice
> > relies on a virtual graphic card called QXL, similar to a virtio device.
> > Typically Virtio devices work over PCI (even though other transport
> > mechanisms exist), and PV guests don't even have a PCI bus.
> > 
> 
> Hmm I thought spice works also *without* QXL ? 
> So PV domUs could have spice without QXL ? 

I thought that the QXL is a requirement but I might be wrong.

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Re: Spice as alternative to vnc also on pv domU

[Fabio Fantoni]

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Il 29/04/2013 14:45, Stefano Stabellini ha scritto:
> On Mon, 29 Apr 2013, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
>> On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 11:13:58AM +0100, Stefano Stabellini wrote:
>>> On Mon, 29 Apr 2013, George Dunlap wrote:
>>>> On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 3:04 PM, Fabio Fantoni <fantonifabio@tiscali.it> wrote:
>>>>> I'm using Spice on my xen test system since end of 2011.
>>>>> Spice is better than vnc for use on maintenance tasks and better than
>>>>> nx/x2go/rdp installed on domU (even better when used with vdagent and usb
>>>>> redirection).
>>>>>
>>>>> That should be possibile because also pv use qemu for vnc but I don't
>>>>> unsterstand exactly how to implement it.
>>>>> Is anybody out there interested in this task or already done it?
>>>> Upon further reflection though -- it seems like the best thing to do
>>>> would be just to install spice servers in your PV guest.
>>> And apparently it even exists!
>>> The spice server used to be part of QEMU/KVM and not available
>>> separately, but looking at http://spice-space.org/download.html, now
>>> they have an "Xspice" server that probably does exactly what you need.
>>>
>>> Otherwise implementing spice for PV guests could be non-trivial: spice
>>> relies on a virtual graphic card called QXL, similar to a virtio device.
>>> Typically Virtio devices work over PCI (even though other transport
>>> mechanisms exist), and PV guests don't even have a PCI bus.
>>>
>> Hmm I thought spice works also *without* QXL ?
>> So PV domUs could have spice without QXL ?
> I thought that the QXL is a requirement but I might be wrong.
>
>
It works also without qxl. xl implementation of qxl is complete but for 
now qxl on xen doesn't work correctly. It seems that some changes/fixes 
are needed on hvmloader according to my tests.
Now I'm using spice with stdvga and it is better than vnc.

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Re: Spice as alternative to vnc also on pv domU

[George Dunlap]

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On 29/04/13 14:00, Fabio Fantoni wrote:
> Il 29/04/2013 14:45, Stefano Stabellini ha scritto:
>> On Mon, 29 Apr 2013, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
>>> On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 11:13:58AM +0100, Stefano Stabellini wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 29 Apr 2013, George Dunlap wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 3:04 PM, Fabio Fantoni<fantonifabio@tiscali.it>  wrote:
>>>>>> I'm using Spice on my xen test system since end of 2011.
>>>>>> Spice is better than vnc for use on maintenance tasks and better than
>>>>>> nx/x2go/rdp installed on domU (even better when used with vdagent and usb
>>>>>> redirection).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That should be possibile because also pv use qemu for vnc but I don't
>>>>>> unsterstand exactly how to implement it.
>>>>>> Is anybody out there interested in this task or already done it?
>>>>> Upon further reflection though -- it seems like the best thing to do
>>>>> would be just to install spice servers in your PV guest.
>>>> And apparently it even exists!
>>>> The spice server used to be part of QEMU/KVM and not available
>>>> separately, but looking athttp://spice-space.org/download.html, now
>>>> they have an "Xspice" server that probably does exactly what you need.
>>>>
>>>> Otherwise implementing spice for PV guests could be non-trivial: spice
>>>> relies on a virtual graphic card called QXL, similar to a virtio device.
>>>> Typically Virtio devices work over PCI (even though other transport
>>>> mechanisms exist), and PV guests don't even have a PCI bus.
>>>>
>>> Hmm I thought spice works also *without* QXL ?
>>> So PV domUs could have spice without QXL ?
>> I thought that the QXL is a requirement but I might be wrong.
>>
>>
> It works also without qxl. xl implementation of qxl is complete but 
> for now qxl on xen doesn't work correctly. It seems that some 
> changes/fixes are needed on hvmloader according to my tests.
> Now I'm using spice with stdvga and it is better than vnc.

Ah -- right, well if that's the case we'd better not advertise it as a 
4.3 feature.

  -George


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