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From: Konstantin Khlebnikov <khlebnikov-GEFAQzZX7r8dnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org>
To: Tejun Heo <tj-DgEjT+Ai2ygdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org>
Cc: Vivek Goyal <vgoyal-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>,
	linux-mm-Bw31MaZKKs3YtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org,
	linux-kernel-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org,
	Michal Hocko <mhocko-AlSwsSmVLrQ@public.gmane.org>,
	cgroups-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org,
	Andrew Morton
	<akpm-de/tnXTf+JLsfHDXvbKv3WD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org>,
	Sha Zhengju <handai.szj-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>,
	devel-GEFAQzZX7r8dnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org,
	Jens Axboe <axboe-tSWWG44O7X1aa/9Udqfwiw@public.gmane.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH RFC] fsio: filesystem io accounting cgroup
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2013 17:15:14 +0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <51DC0CE2.2050906@openvz.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20130709125734.GA2478-Gd/HAXX7CRxy/B6EtB590w@public.gmane.org>

Tejun Heo wrote:
> Hello,
>
> On Tue, Jul 09, 2013 at 12:28:15PM +0400, Konstantin Khlebnikov wrote:
>> Yep, blkio has plenty problems and flaws and I don't get how it's related
>> to vfs layer, dirty set control and non-disk or network backed filesystems.
>> Any problem can be fixed by introducing new abstract layer, except too many
>> abstraction levels. Cgroup is pluggable subsystem, blkio has it's own plugins
>> and it's build on top of io scheduler plugin. All this stuff always have worked
>
> What does that have to do with anything?
>
>> with block devices. Now you suggest to handle all filesystems in this stack.
>> I think binding them to unrealated cgroup is rough leveling violation.
>
> How is blkio unrelated to filesystems mounted on block devices?
> You're suggesting a duplicate solution which can't be complete.

blkio controls block devices. not filesystems or superblocks or bdi or pagecache.
It's all about block layer and nothing more. Am I right?

So, you want to link some completely unrelated subsystems like NFS into the block layer?

>
>> NFS cannot be controlled only by network throttlers because we
>> cannot slow down writeback process when it happens, we must slow
>> down tasks who generates dirty memory.
>
> That's exactly the same problem why blkio doesn't work for async IOs
> right now, so if you're interested in the area, please contribute to
> fixing that problem.
>
>> Plus it's close to impossible to separate several workloads if they
>> share one NFS sb.
>
> Again, the same problem with blkio.  We need separate pressure
> channels on bdi for each cgroup.
>
> Thanks.
>

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Konstantin Khlebnikov <khlebnikov@openvz.org>
To: Tejun Heo <tj@kernel.org>
Cc: Vivek Goyal <vgoyal@redhat.com>,
	linux-mm@kvack.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	Michal Hocko <mhocko@suse.cz>,
	cgroups@vger.kernel.org,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Sha Zhengju <handai.szj@gmail.com>,
	devel@openvz.org, Jens Axboe <axboe@kernel.dk>
Subject: Re: [PATCH RFC] fsio: filesystem io accounting cgroup
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2013 17:15:14 +0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <51DC0CE2.2050906@openvz.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20130709125734.GA2478@htj.dyndns.org>

Tejun Heo wrote:
> Hello,
>
> On Tue, Jul 09, 2013 at 12:28:15PM +0400, Konstantin Khlebnikov wrote:
>> Yep, blkio has plenty problems and flaws and I don't get how it's related
>> to vfs layer, dirty set control and non-disk or network backed filesystems.
>> Any problem can be fixed by introducing new abstract layer, except too many
>> abstraction levels. Cgroup is pluggable subsystem, blkio has it's own plugins
>> and it's build on top of io scheduler plugin. All this stuff always have worked
>
> What does that have to do with anything?
>
>> with block devices. Now you suggest to handle all filesystems in this stack.
>> I think binding them to unrealated cgroup is rough leveling violation.
>
> How is blkio unrelated to filesystems mounted on block devices?
> You're suggesting a duplicate solution which can't be complete.

blkio controls block devices. not filesystems or superblocks or bdi or pagecache.
It's all about block layer and nothing more. Am I right?

So, you want to link some completely unrelated subsystems like NFS into the block layer?

>
>> NFS cannot be controlled only by network throttlers because we
>> cannot slow down writeback process when it happens, we must slow
>> down tasks who generates dirty memory.
>
> That's exactly the same problem why blkio doesn't work for async IOs
> right now, so if you're interested in the area, please contribute to
> fixing that problem.
>
>> Plus it's close to impossible to separate several workloads if they
>> share one NFS sb.
>
> Again, the same problem with blkio.  We need separate pressure
> channels on bdi for each cgroup.
>
> Thanks.
>

--
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WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Konstantin Khlebnikov <khlebnikov@openvz.org>
To: Tejun Heo <tj@kernel.org>
Cc: Vivek Goyal <vgoyal@redhat.com>,
	linux-mm@kvack.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	Michal Hocko <mhocko@suse.cz>,
	cgroups@vger.kernel.org,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Sha Zhengju <handai.szj@gmail.com>,
	devel@openvz.org, Jens Axboe <axboe@kernel.dk>
Subject: Re: [PATCH RFC] fsio: filesystem io accounting cgroup
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2013 17:15:14 +0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <51DC0CE2.2050906@openvz.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20130709125734.GA2478@htj.dyndns.org>

Tejun Heo wrote:
> Hello,
>
> On Tue, Jul 09, 2013 at 12:28:15PM +0400, Konstantin Khlebnikov wrote:
>> Yep, blkio has plenty problems and flaws and I don't get how it's related
>> to vfs layer, dirty set control and non-disk or network backed filesystems.
>> Any problem can be fixed by introducing new abstract layer, except too many
>> abstraction levels. Cgroup is pluggable subsystem, blkio has it's own plugins
>> and it's build on top of io scheduler plugin. All this stuff always have worked
>
> What does that have to do with anything?
>
>> with block devices. Now you suggest to handle all filesystems in this stack.
>> I think binding them to unrealated cgroup is rough leveling violation.
>
> How is blkio unrelated to filesystems mounted on block devices?
> You're suggesting a duplicate solution which can't be complete.

blkio controls block devices. not filesystems or superblocks or bdi or pagecache.
It's all about block layer and nothing more. Am I right?

So, you want to link some completely unrelated subsystems like NFS into the block layer?

>
>> NFS cannot be controlled only by network throttlers because we
>> cannot slow down writeback process when it happens, we must slow
>> down tasks who generates dirty memory.
>
> That's exactly the same problem why blkio doesn't work for async IOs
> right now, so if you're interested in the area, please contribute to
> fixing that problem.
>
>> Plus it's close to impossible to separate several workloads if they
>> share one NFS sb.
>
> Again, the same problem with blkio.  We need separate pressure
> channels on bdi for each cgroup.
>
> Thanks.
>


  parent reply	other threads:[~2013-07-09 13:15 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 64+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2013-07-08 10:01 [PATCH RFC] fsio: filesystem io accounting cgroup Konstantin Khlebnikov
2013-07-08 10:01 ` Konstantin Khlebnikov
2013-07-08 17:00 ` Tejun Heo
2013-07-08 17:00   ` Tejun Heo
2013-07-08 17:00   ` Tejun Heo
2013-07-08 17:52   ` Vivek Goyal
2013-07-08 17:52     ` Vivek Goyal
2013-07-08 17:56     ` Tejun Heo
2013-07-08 17:56       ` Tejun Heo
2013-07-09  8:28       ` Konstantin Khlebnikov
2013-07-09  8:28         ` Konstantin Khlebnikov
2013-07-09 12:57         ` Tejun Heo
2013-07-09 12:57           ` Tejun Heo
     [not found]           ` <20130709125734.GA2478-Gd/HAXX7CRxy/B6EtB590w@public.gmane.org>
2013-07-09 13:15             ` Konstantin Khlebnikov [this message]
2013-07-09 13:15               ` Konstantin Khlebnikov
2013-07-09 13:15               ` Konstantin Khlebnikov
2013-07-09 13:16               ` Tejun Heo
2013-07-09 13:16                 ` Tejun Heo
2013-07-09 13:16                 ` Tejun Heo
2013-07-09 13:16                   ` Tejun Heo
2013-07-09 13:43                   ` Konstantin Khlebnikov
2013-07-09 13:43                     ` Konstantin Khlebnikov
2013-07-09 13:45                     ` Tejun Heo
2013-07-09 13:45                       ` Tejun Heo
2013-07-09 14:18                       ` Vivek Goyal
2013-07-09 14:18                         ` Vivek Goyal
2013-07-09 14:29                         ` Tejun Heo
2013-07-09 14:29                           ` Tejun Heo
2013-07-09 14:54                           ` Vivek Goyal
2013-07-09 14:54                             ` Vivek Goyal
2013-07-09 15:08                             ` Tejun Heo
2013-07-09 15:08                               ` Tejun Heo
     [not found]                               ` <20130710030955.GA3569@redhat.com>
     [not found]                                 ` <20130710030955.GA3569-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2013-07-10  3:50                                   ` Tejun Heo
2013-07-10  3:50                                     ` Tejun Heo
2013-07-10  3:50                                     ` Tejun Heo
     [not found]                       ` <20130709134558.GD2478-Gd/HAXX7CRxy/B6EtB590w@public.gmane.org>
2013-07-09 14:35                         ` Konstantin Khlebnikov
2013-07-09 14:35                           ` Konstantin Khlebnikov
2013-07-09 14:35                           ` Konstantin Khlebnikov
2013-07-09 14:42                           ` Tejun Heo
2013-07-09 14:42                             ` Tejun Heo
2013-07-09 15:06                           ` Vivek Goyal
2013-07-09 15:06                             ` Vivek Goyal
2013-07-09 17:42                             ` Konstantin Khlebnikov
2013-07-09 17:42                               ` Konstantin Khlebnikov
2013-07-09 18:35                               ` Vivek Goyal
2013-07-09 18:35                                 ` Vivek Goyal
2013-07-09 20:54                                 ` Konstantin Khlebnikov
2013-07-09 20:54                                   ` Konstantin Khlebnikov
2013-07-08 18:11 ` Vivek Goyal
2013-07-08 18:11   ` Vivek Goyal
2013-07-09 15:39 ` Theodore Ts'o
2013-07-09 15:39   ` Theodore Ts'o
     [not found]   ` <20130709153907.GA17972-AKGzg7BKzIDYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org>
2013-07-09 17:12     ` Konstantin Khlebnikov
2013-07-09 17:12       ` Konstantin Khlebnikov
2013-07-09 17:12       ` Konstantin Khlebnikov
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2013-07-08  9:59 Konstantin Khlebnikov
2013-07-08  9:59 ` Konstantin Khlebnikov
2013-07-10  4:43 ` Sha Zhengju
2013-07-10  4:43   ` Sha Zhengju
     [not found]   ` <CAFj3OHVtVGDnWHqNBRZH+LNtzDrbk8PO0fKLwFscZAWCJRW9oA-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2013-07-10  6:03     ` Konstantin Khlebnikov
2013-07-10  6:03       ` Konstantin Khlebnikov
2013-07-10  6:03       ` Konstantin Khlebnikov
2013-07-10  8:37       ` Sha Zhengju
2013-07-10  8:37         ` Sha Zhengju

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