Is binary firmware still necessary for GTX660 card (NVE0 family) in order to use DRM and/or VDPAU video acceleration?

Is binary firmware still necessary for GTX660 card (NVE0 family) in order to use DRM and/or VDPAU video acceleration?

[Matthias Nagel]

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Hello,

I run the Gentoo Linux distribution and use a self-compiled Linux 3.10.17
kernel. According to

[1] http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/InstallDRM/
[2] http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/VideoAcceleration/

I need the original firmware from the binary driver in order to sucessully
use DRM and to use VDPAU video acceleration. I used the python script from
[2] and I had a look at the ebuild from

[3] https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=480832

to extract the firmware and to place it at /lib/firmware/nouveau. But I do
not see any dmesg output about loading the firmware. I do not see any dmesg
output about nouveau failing to do so either. I neither do no see any
"nouveau <pci id>: firmware: requesting nouveau/" in my kernel output.

Anyway VDPAU seems to work. If I call mplayer with "-vo vdpau -vc
ffmpeg12vdpau,...", I don't get any error message and my CPU load drops
from 30% to 7% for a recent mpeg transport stream 1080p video.

In conclusion, do I still need the firmware? Do the information given at
[1], [2] still apply or are they outdated?

Thank you, Matthias

--
Matthias Nagel
Parkstraße 27
76131 Karlsruhe

Festnetz: +49-721-96869289
Mobil: +49-151-15998774
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Re: Is binary firmware still necessary for GTX660 card (NVE0 family) in order to use DRM and/or VDPAU video acceleration?

[Martin Peres]

On 12/12/2013 08:32, Matthias Nagel wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I run the Gentoo Linux distribution and use a self-compiled Linux 
> 3.10.17 kernel. According to
>
> [1] http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/InstallDRM/
> [2] http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/VideoAcceleration/
>
> I need the original firmware from the binary driver in order to 
> sucessully use DRM and to use VDPAU video acceleration. I used the 
> python script from [2] and I had a look at the ebuild from
>
> [3] https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=480832
>
> to extract the firmware and to place it at /lib/firmware/nouveau. But 
> I do not see any dmesg output about loading the firmware. I do not see 
> any dmesg output about nouveau failing to do so either. I neither do 
> no see any "nouveau <pci id>: firmware: requesting nouveau/" in my 
> kernel output.
>
> Anyway VDPAU seems to work. If I call mplayer with "-vo vdpau -vc 
> ffmpeg12vdpau,...", I don't get any error message and my CPU load 
> drops from 30% to 7% for a recent mpeg transport stream 1080p video.
>
> In conclusion, do I still need the firmware? Do the information given 
> at [1], [2] still apply or are they outdated?

Thanks for your first hand investigation. To be honest, I can't remember 
which kernel provides a working-enough open source pgraph fw.

As you figured out, it works for you, but you should update your kernel, 
there is no point in staying on old Linux releases, at least 
Nouveau-wise. If there was a regression, let us know instead of staying 
on an old kernel.

Cheers,
Martin Peres

Re: Is binary firmware still necessary for GTX660 card (NVE0 family) in order to use DRM and/or VDPAU video acceleration?

[Matthias Nagel]

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Hi Martin,
if you refer to my kernel version. 3.10.17 is the latest, stable version in
the official gentoo repository for the amd64 architeture. See here

[4] https://packages.gentoo.org/package/sys-kernel/gentoo-sources?full_cat

As long as I do not miss any features, I stay with the stable version.

Hence, if I understand you correctly, there are kernel version (newer than
some unknown point in time) that already include the firmware? If this is
the case, someone who knows the exact kernel version should mention that
point on

[1] http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/InstallDRM/
[2] http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/VideoAcceleration/
[3] https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=480832

and update the information.

Matthias



2013/12/12 Martin Peres <martin.peres-GANU6spQydw@public.gmane.org>

> On 12/12/2013 08:32, Matthias Nagel wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I run the Gentoo Linux distribution and use a self-compiled Linux 3.10.17
>> kernel. According to
>>
>> [1] http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/InstallDRM/
>> [2] http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/VideoAcceleration/
>>
>> I need the original firmware from the binary driver in order to
>> sucessully use DRM and to use VDPAU video acceleration. I used the python
>> script from [2] and I had a look at the ebuild from
>>
>> [3] https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=480832
>>
>> to extract the firmware and to place it at /lib/firmware/nouveau. But I
>> do not see any dmesg output about loading the firmware. I do not see any
>> dmesg output about nouveau failing to do so either. I neither do no see any
>> "nouveau <pci id>: firmware: requesting nouveau/" in my kernel output.
>>
>> Anyway VDPAU seems to work. If I call mplayer with "-vo vdpau -vc
>> ffmpeg12vdpau,...", I don't get any error message and my CPU load drops
>> from 30% to 7% for a recent mpeg transport stream 1080p video.
>>
>> In conclusion, do I still need the firmware? Do the information given at
>> [1], [2] still apply or are they outdated?
>>
>
> Thanks for your first hand investigation. To be honest, I can't remember
> which kernel provides a working-enough open source pgraph fw.
>
> As you figured out, it works for you, but you should update your kernel,
> there is no point in staying on old Linux releases, at least Nouveau-wise.
> If there was a regression, let us know instead of staying on an old kernel.
>
> Cheers,
> Martin Peres
> _______________________________________________
> Nouveau mailing list
> Nouveau-PD4FTy7X32lNgt0PjOBp9y5qC8QIuHrW@public.gmane.org
> http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/nouveau
>



-- 
Matthias Nagel
Parkstraße 27
76131 Karlsruhe

Festnetz: +49-721-96869289
Mobil: +49-151-15998774
e-Mail: matthias.h.nagel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org
ICQ: 499797758
Skype: nagmat84

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Re: Is binary firmware still necessary for GTX660 card (NVE0 family) in order to use DRM and/or VDPAU video acceleration?

[Martin Peres]

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Le 12/12/2013 08:58, Matthias Nagel a écrit :
> Hi Martin,
> if you refer to my kernel version. 3.10.17 is the latest, stable 
> version in the official gentoo repository for the amd64 architeture. 
> See here
...
> [4] https://packages.gentoo.org/package/sys-kernel/gentoo-sources?full_cat
>
> As long as I do not miss any features, I stay with the stable version.
Indeed, you are doing the right thing, I guess. But if you encounter any 
sort of crash, I really advise you to go against gentoo on this and 
update your kernel to the latest official release (3.12.x at the 
moment). FYI, the 3.12 brings performance improvements to Nouveau too.
>
> Hence, if I understand you correctly, there are kernel version (newer 
> than some unknown point in time) that already include the firmware? If 
> this is the case, someone who knows the exact kernel version should 
> mention that point on
>
> [1] http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/InstallDRM/
> [2] http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/VideoAcceleration/
> [3] https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=480832
>
> and update the information.

What I wanted to say is that adding good fw support usually spans across 
multiple kernels. Even 3.13 has kepler fw fixes IIRC and 3.14 will 
receive some more updates to support new chipsets. It isn't a binary 
thing so this is hard to tell we support a feature...

I guess we could tell when is the first free implementation (with the 
possible fallback of using the blob's firmware[1]) and then when we 
added support for all chipsets of the family and it has been 
fairly-extensively tested and bug-free. Some cards would never pass the 
test though :s

[1] NvGrUseFw, http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/KernelModuleParameters/

Cheers,
Martin
<http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/KernelModuleParameters/>

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Re: Is binary firmware still necessary for GTX660 card (NVE0 family) in order to use DRM and/or VDPAU video acceleration?

[Ilia Mirkin]

On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 2:32 AM, Matthias Nagel
<matthias.h.nagel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I run the Gentoo Linux distribution and use a self-compiled Linux 3.10.17
> kernel. According to
>
> [1] http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/InstallDRM/
> [2] http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/VideoAcceleration/
>
> I need the original firmware from the binary driver in order to sucessully
> use DRM and to use VDPAU video acceleration. I used the python script from
> [2] and I had a look at the ebuild from
>
> [3] https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=480832
>
> to extract the firmware and to place it at /lib/firmware/nouveau. But I do
> not see any dmesg output about loading the firmware. I do not see any dmesg
> output about nouveau failing to do so either. I neither do no see any
> "nouveau <pci id>: firmware: requesting nouveau/" in my kernel output.

Try booting with

nouveau.debug=PVP=debug,PBSP=debug,PPPP=debug

Note the new-found kernel output.

>
> Anyway VDPAU seems to work. If I call mplayer with "-vo vdpau -vc
> ffmpeg12vdpau,...", I don't get any error message and my CPU load drops from
> 30% to 7% for a recent mpeg transport stream 1080p video.
>
> In conclusion, do I still need the firmware? Do the information given at
> [1], [2] still apply or are they outdated?

You definitely need firmware to do vdpau (just try removing it and
reboot, and see what happens) on all NV84+ cards. AFAIK there is no
active work being done to replace the firmware on VP5 cards (nvd0+),
although that is the one that is probably the most feasible since the
actual video decoding is done with firmware that's on the card (or
with dedicated hardware, who knows) so all that's left is providing
the little "os" running on the connected falcon processors.

Unless you're booting with nouveau.NvGrUseFW=1, you don't need the
pgraph firmware. It generally tends to work for nve0 cards nowadays,
although some people have issues with hangs (e.g.
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=70354,
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=72180). I believe there
were a bunch of fixes to the fuc ucode in 3.11, which is probably why
Martin suggested you use a more recent kernel. But if it's working
fine for you, no need to worry about it.

  -ilia

Re: Is binary firmware still necessary for GTX660 card (NVE0 family) in order to use DRM and/or VDPAU video acceleration?

[Matthias Nagel]

Hi,

just a note for everybody who stumble across this thread in the future in 
order to bring this thread to a proper end.

If I run the kernel with

nouveau.debug="PVP=debug,PBSP=debug,PPPP=debug"

I see messages about the firmware files gettings loaded. If the firmware files are 
missing, I get some warnings/errors. So far everything works as expected.

But if I invoke "mplayer" with the "-vo vdpau -vc ..." option either way 
mplayer claims to use vdpau and starts playing the video, even if the firmware 
files are not there. Hence, either mplayer or the nouveau driver can do vdpau 
without the firmware files, but then I wonder how, or mplayer silently falls 
back to another output driver.

Anyway, as far as I am concerned, the issue is closed. I use vdpau with the 
firmware files and I am happy.

Matthias

Am Donnerstag, 12. Dezember 2013, 07:18:48 schrieb Ilia Mirkin:
> On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 2:32 AM, Matthias Nagel
> 
> <matthias.h.nagel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > Hello,
> > 
> > I run the Gentoo Linux distribution and use a self-compiled Linux 3.10.17
> > kernel. According to
> > 
> > [1] http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/InstallDRM/
> > [2] http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/VideoAcceleration/
> > 
> > I need the original firmware from the binary driver in order to sucessully
> > use DRM and to use VDPAU video acceleration. I used the python script from
> > [2] and I had a look at the ebuild from
> > 
> > [3] https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=480832
> > 
> > to extract the firmware and to place it at /lib/firmware/nouveau. But I do
> > not see any dmesg output about loading the firmware. I do not see any
> > dmesg
> > output about nouveau failing to do so either. I neither do no see any
> > "nouveau <pci id>: firmware: requesting nouveau/" in my kernel output.
> 
> Try booting with
> 
> nouveau.debug=PVP=debug,PBSP=debug,PPPP=debug
> 
> Note the new-found kernel output.
> 
> > Anyway VDPAU seems to work. If I call mplayer with "-vo vdpau -vc
> > ffmpeg12vdpau,...", I don't get any error message and my CPU load drops
> > from 30% to 7% for a recent mpeg transport stream 1080p video.
> > 
> > In conclusion, do I still need the firmware? Do the information given at
> > [1], [2] still apply or are they outdated?
> 
> You definitely need firmware to do vdpau (just try removing it and
> reboot, and see what happens) on all NV84+ cards. AFAIK there is no
> active work being done to replace the firmware on VP5 cards (nvd0+),
> although that is the one that is probably the most feasible since the
> actual video decoding is done with firmware that's on the card (or
> with dedicated hardware, who knows) so all that's left is providing
> the little "os" running on the connected falcon processors.
> 
> Unless you're booting with nouveau.NvGrUseFW=1, you don't need the
> pgraph firmware. It generally tends to work for nve0 cards nowadays,
> although some people have issues with hangs (e.g.
> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=70354,
> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=72180). I believe there
> were a bunch of fixes to the fuc ucode in 3.11, which is probably why
> Martin suggested you use a more recent kernel. But if it's working
> fine for you, no need to worry about it.
> 
>   -ilia

Re: Is binary firmware still necessary for GTX660 card (NVE0 family) in order to use DRM and/or VDPAU video acceleration?

[Ilia Mirkin]

On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 4:28 AM, Matthias Nagel
<matthias.h.nagel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> just a note for everybody who stumble across this thread in the future in
> order to bring this thread to a proper end.
>
> If I run the kernel with
>
> nouveau.debug="PVP=debug,PBSP=debug,PPPP=debug"
>
> I see messages about the firmware files gettings loaded. If the firmware files are
> missing, I get some warnings/errors. So far everything works as expected.
>
> But if I invoke "mplayer" with the "-vo vdpau -vc ..." option either way
> mplayer claims to use vdpau and starts playing the video, even if the firmware
> files are not there. Hence, either mplayer or the nouveau driver can do vdpau
> without the firmware files, but then I wonder how, or mplayer silently falls
> back to another output driver.

It should all be detailed in mplayer's output as to what precisely is
going on. VDPAU stands for Video Decoding *and* Presentation. You can
use it for presentation even if you don't use it for decoding (and
vice versa). You only need the firmware for decoding, presentation is
just displaying textures on the screen.

>
> Anyway, as far as I am concerned, the issue is closed. I use vdpau with the
> firmware files and I am happy.
>
> Matthias
>
> Am Donnerstag, 12. Dezember 2013, 07:18:48 schrieb Ilia Mirkin:
>> On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 2:32 AM, Matthias Nagel
>>
>> <matthias.h.nagel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>> > Hello,
>> >
>> > I run the Gentoo Linux distribution and use a self-compiled Linux 3.10.17
>> > kernel. According to
>> >
>> > [1] http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/InstallDRM/
>> > [2] http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/VideoAcceleration/
>> >
>> > I need the original firmware from the binary driver in order to sucessully
>> > use DRM and to use VDPAU video acceleration. I used the python script from
>> > [2] and I had a look at the ebuild from
>> >
>> > [3] https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=480832
>> >
>> > to extract the firmware and to place it at /lib/firmware/nouveau. But I do
>> > not see any dmesg output about loading the firmware. I do not see any
>> > dmesg
>> > output about nouveau failing to do so either. I neither do no see any
>> > "nouveau <pci id>: firmware: requesting nouveau/" in my kernel output.
>>
>> Try booting with
>>
>> nouveau.debug=PVP=debug,PBSP=debug,PPPP=debug
>>
>> Note the new-found kernel output.
>>
>> > Anyway VDPAU seems to work. If I call mplayer with "-vo vdpau -vc
>> > ffmpeg12vdpau,...", I don't get any error message and my CPU load drops
>> > from 30% to 7% for a recent mpeg transport stream 1080p video.
>> >
>> > In conclusion, do I still need the firmware? Do the information given at
>> > [1], [2] still apply or are they outdated?
>>
>> You definitely need firmware to do vdpau (just try removing it and
>> reboot, and see what happens) on all NV84+ cards. AFAIK there is no
>> active work being done to replace the firmware on VP5 cards (nvd0+),
>> although that is the one that is probably the most feasible since the
>> actual video decoding is done with firmware that's on the card (or
>> with dedicated hardware, who knows) so all that's left is providing
>> the little "os" running on the connected falcon processors.
>>
>> Unless you're booting with nouveau.NvGrUseFW=1, you don't need the
>> pgraph firmware. It generally tends to work for nve0 cards nowadays,
>> although some people have issues with hangs (e.g.
>> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=70354,
>> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=72180). I believe there
>> were a bunch of fixes to the fuc ucode in 3.11, which is probably why
>> Martin suggested you use a more recent kernel. But if it's working
>> fine for you, no need to worry about it.
>>
>>   -ilia
>
> _______________________________________________
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