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From: Eric Sandeen <sandeen-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
To: Austin S Hemmelgarn
	<ahferroin7-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>,
	Theodore Ts'o <tytso-3s7WtUTddSA@public.gmane.org>
Cc: Michael Kerrisk
	<mtk.manpages-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>,
	Ext4 Developers List
	<linux-ext4-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org>,
	Linux btrfs Developers List
	<linux-btrfs-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org>,
	XFS Developers <xfs-VZNHf3L845pBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>,
	linux-man-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org,
	Linux-Fsdevel
	<linux-fsdevel-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org>,
	Linux API <linux-api-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org>
Subject: Re: Documenting MS_LAZYTIME
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2015 10:24:54 -0600	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <54EB5456.5030607@redhat.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <54EB1B19.8050808-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>

On 2/23/15 6:20 AM, Austin S Hemmelgarn wrote:
> On 2015-02-20 21:56, Theodore Ts'o wrote:
>> On Fri, Feb 20, 2015 at 09:49:34AM -0600, Eric Sandeen wrote:
>>>
>>>>                This mount option significantly reduces  writes  to  the
>>>>                inode  table  for workloads that perform frequent random
>>>>                writes to preallocated files.
>>>
>>> This seems like an overly specific description of a single workload out
>>> of many which may benefit, but what do others think?  "inode table" is also
>>> fairly extN-specific.
>>
>> How about somethign like "This mount significantly reduces writes
>> needed to update the inode's timestamps, especially mtime and actime.
>> Examples of workloads where this could be a large win include frequent
>> random writes to preallocated files, as well as cases where the
>> MS_STRICTATIME mount option is enabled."?
>>
>> (The advantage of MS_STRICTATIME | MS_LAZYTIME is that stat system
>> calls will return the correctly updated atime, but those atime updates
>> won't get flushed to disk unless the inode needs to be updated for
>> file system / data consistency reasons, or when the inode is pushed
>> out of memory, or when the file system is unmounted.)
>>
> If you want to list some specific software, it should help with
> anything that uses sqlite (which notably includes firefox and
> chrome), as well as most RDMS software and systemd-journald.

I'm really uneasy with starting to list specific workloads and applications
here. It's going to get dated quickly, and will lead to endless cargo-cult
tuning.

I'd strongly prefer to just describe what it does (reduces the number of
certain metadata writes to disk) and leave it at that....

-Eric

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WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Eric Sandeen <sandeen@redhat.com>
To: Austin S Hemmelgarn <ahferroin7@gmail.com>,
	"Theodore Ts'o" <tytso@mit.edu>
Cc: Michael Kerrisk <mtk.manpages@gmail.com>,
	Ext4 Developers List <linux-ext4@vger.kernel.org>,
	Linux btrfs Developers List <linux-btrfs@vger.kernel.org>,
	XFS Developers <xfs@oss.sgi.com>,
	linux-man@vger.kernel.org,
	Linux-Fsdevel <linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Linux API <linux-api@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: Documenting MS_LAZYTIME
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2015 10:24:54 -0600	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <54EB5456.5030607@redhat.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <54EB1B19.8050808@gmail.com>

On 2/23/15 6:20 AM, Austin S Hemmelgarn wrote:
> On 2015-02-20 21:56, Theodore Ts'o wrote:
>> On Fri, Feb 20, 2015 at 09:49:34AM -0600, Eric Sandeen wrote:
>>>
>>>>                This mount option significantly reduces  writes  to  the
>>>>                inode  table  for workloads that perform frequent random
>>>>                writes to preallocated files.
>>>
>>> This seems like an overly specific description of a single workload out
>>> of many which may benefit, but what do others think?  "inode table" is also
>>> fairly extN-specific.
>>
>> How about somethign like "This mount significantly reduces writes
>> needed to update the inode's timestamps, especially mtime and actime.
>> Examples of workloads where this could be a large win include frequent
>> random writes to preallocated files, as well as cases where the
>> MS_STRICTATIME mount option is enabled."?
>>
>> (The advantage of MS_STRICTATIME | MS_LAZYTIME is that stat system
>> calls will return the correctly updated atime, but those atime updates
>> won't get flushed to disk unless the inode needs to be updated for
>> file system / data consistency reasons, or when the inode is pushed
>> out of memory, or when the file system is unmounted.)
>>
> If you want to list some specific software, it should help with
> anything that uses sqlite (which notably includes firefox and
> chrome), as well as most RDMS software and systemd-journald.

I'm really uneasy with starting to list specific workloads and applications
here. It's going to get dated quickly, and will lead to endless cargo-cult
tuning.

I'd strongly prefer to just describe what it does (reduces the number of
certain metadata writes to disk) and leave it at that....

-Eric


WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Eric Sandeen <sandeen@redhat.com>
To: Austin S Hemmelgarn <ahferroin7@gmail.com>,
	Theodore Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu>
Cc: linux-man@vger.kernel.org, Linux API <linux-api@vger.kernel.org>,
	XFS Developers <xfs@oss.sgi.com>,
	Michael Kerrisk <mtk.manpages@gmail.com>,
	Linux-Fsdevel <linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Ext4 Developers List <linux-ext4@vger.kernel.org>,
	Linux btrfs Developers List <linux-btrfs@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: Documenting MS_LAZYTIME
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2015 10:24:54 -0600	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <54EB5456.5030607@redhat.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <54EB1B19.8050808@gmail.com>

On 2/23/15 6:20 AM, Austin S Hemmelgarn wrote:
> On 2015-02-20 21:56, Theodore Ts'o wrote:
>> On Fri, Feb 20, 2015 at 09:49:34AM -0600, Eric Sandeen wrote:
>>>
>>>>                This mount option significantly reduces  writes  to  the
>>>>                inode  table  for workloads that perform frequent random
>>>>                writes to preallocated files.
>>>
>>> This seems like an overly specific description of a single workload out
>>> of many which may benefit, but what do others think?  "inode table" is also
>>> fairly extN-specific.
>>
>> How about somethign like "This mount significantly reduces writes
>> needed to update the inode's timestamps, especially mtime and actime.
>> Examples of workloads where this could be a large win include frequent
>> random writes to preallocated files, as well as cases where the
>> MS_STRICTATIME mount option is enabled."?
>>
>> (The advantage of MS_STRICTATIME | MS_LAZYTIME is that stat system
>> calls will return the correctly updated atime, but those atime updates
>> won't get flushed to disk unless the inode needs to be updated for
>> file system / data consistency reasons, or when the inode is pushed
>> out of memory, or when the file system is unmounted.)
>>
> If you want to list some specific software, it should help with
> anything that uses sqlite (which notably includes firefox and
> chrome), as well as most RDMS software and systemd-journald.

I'm really uneasy with starting to list specific workloads and applications
here. It's going to get dated quickly, and will lead to endless cargo-cult
tuning.

I'd strongly prefer to just describe what it does (reduces the number of
certain metadata writes to disk) and leave it at that....

-Eric

_______________________________________________
xfs mailing list
xfs@oss.sgi.com
http://oss.sgi.com/mailman/listinfo/xfs

  parent reply	other threads:[~2015-02-23 16:24 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 52+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2015-02-20  8:50 Documenting MS_LAZYTIME Michael Kerrisk
2015-02-20  8:50 ` Michael Kerrisk
2015-02-20  8:50 ` Michael Kerrisk
     [not found] ` <CAHO5Pa0k7QkV_6BDjwTVxa7LV9tFyN9nGFFcSvOC6HYO08wfrw-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2015-02-20 12:32   ` Andreas Dilger
2015-02-20 12:32     ` Andreas Dilger
2015-02-20 12:32     ` Andreas Dilger
2015-02-20 13:22     ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2015-02-20 13:22       ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2015-02-20 13:22       ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2015-02-20 15:49 ` Eric Sandeen
2015-02-20 15:49   ` Eric Sandeen
2015-02-20 15:49   ` Eric Sandeen
2015-02-21  2:56   ` Theodore Ts'o
2015-02-21  2:56     ` Theodore Ts'o
     [not found]     ` <20150221025636.GB7922-AKGzg7BKzIDYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org>
2015-02-23 12:20       ` Austin S Hemmelgarn
2015-02-23 12:20         ` Austin S Hemmelgarn
2015-02-23 12:20         ` Austin S Hemmelgarn
     [not found]         ` <54EB1B19.8050808-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2015-02-23 16:24           ` Eric Sandeen [this message]
2015-02-23 16:24             ` Eric Sandeen
2015-02-23 16:24             ` Eric Sandeen
2015-02-26  8:53             ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2015-02-26  8:53               ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2015-02-26  8:49       ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2015-02-26  8:49         ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2015-02-26  8:49         ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2015-02-26 13:31         ` Theodore Ts'o
2015-02-26 13:31           ` Theodore Ts'o
2015-02-26 13:36           ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2015-02-26 13:36             ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2015-02-27  0:04             ` Theodore Ts'o
2015-02-27  0:04               ` Theodore Ts'o
     [not found]               ` <20150227000409.GC17174-AKGzg7BKzIDYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org>
2015-02-27  8:01                 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2015-02-27  8:01                   ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2015-02-27  8:01                   ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
     [not found]                   ` <54F02446.2050008-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2015-02-27  8:08                     ` Omar Sandoval
2015-02-27  8:08                       ` Omar Sandoval
2015-02-27  8:08                       ` Omar Sandoval
2015-02-27  8:36                       ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2015-02-27  8:36                         ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2015-02-27  8:36                         ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
     [not found]                         ` <54F02C73.5090601-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2015-02-27 14:18                           ` Theodore Ts'o
2015-02-27 14:18                             ` Theodore Ts'o
2015-02-27 14:18                             ` Theodore Ts'o
2015-02-27 17:51                   ` Darrick J. Wong
2015-02-27 17:51                     ` Darrick J. Wong
     [not found]                     ` <20150227175159.GC11031-PTl6brltDGh4DFYR7WNSRA@public.gmane.org>
2015-03-03  7:14                       ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2015-03-03  7:14                         ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2015-03-03  7:14                         ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2015-02-21  7:57   ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2015-02-21  7:57     ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2015-02-22 18:30 ` Robert White
2015-02-22 18:30   ` Robert White

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