* [PATCH] drm/ttm: device address space != CPU address space
@ 2015-03-04 5:18 Alex Deucher
2015-03-04 7:14 ` Zhou, Jammy
2015-03-04 8:01 ` Thomas Hellstrom
0 siblings, 2 replies; 5+ messages in thread
From: Alex Deucher @ 2015-03-04 5:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: dri-devel; +Cc: Alex Deucher, thellstrom
We need to store device offsets in 64 bit as the device
address space may be larger than the CPU's.
Fixes GPU init failures on radeons with 4GB or more of
vram on 32 bit kernels. We put vram at the start of the
GPU's address space so the gart aperture starts at 4 GB
causing all GPU addresses in the gart aperture to get
truncated.
bug:
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89072
Signed-off-by: Alex Deucher <alexander.deucher@amd.com>
Cc: thellstrom@vmware.com
---
Untested. Someone more familiar with the ttm internals can
probably point out any additional bits I missed. Heading to
bed now.
drivers/gpu/drm/ttm/ttm_bo.c | 2 +-
include/drm/ttm/ttm_bo_api.h | 2 +-
include/drm/ttm/ttm_bo_driver.h | 2 +-
3 files changed, 3 insertions(+), 3 deletions(-)
diff --git a/drivers/gpu/drm/ttm/ttm_bo.c b/drivers/gpu/drm/ttm/ttm_bo.c
index d395b0b..8d9b7de 100644
--- a/drivers/gpu/drm/ttm/ttm_bo.c
+++ b/drivers/gpu/drm/ttm/ttm_bo.c
@@ -74,7 +74,7 @@ static void ttm_mem_type_debug(struct ttm_bo_device *bdev, int mem_type)
pr_err(" has_type: %d\n", man->has_type);
pr_err(" use_type: %d\n", man->use_type);
pr_err(" flags: 0x%08X\n", man->flags);
- pr_err(" gpu_offset: 0x%08lX\n", man->gpu_offset);
+ pr_err(" gpu_offset: 0x%08llX\n", man->gpu_offset);
pr_err(" size: %llu\n", man->size);
pr_err(" available_caching: 0x%08X\n", man->available_caching);
pr_err(" default_caching: 0x%08X\n", man->default_caching);
diff --git a/include/drm/ttm/ttm_bo_api.h b/include/drm/ttm/ttm_bo_api.h
index 0ccf7f2..c768ddf 100644
--- a/include/drm/ttm/ttm_bo_api.h
+++ b/include/drm/ttm/ttm_bo_api.h
@@ -249,7 +249,7 @@ struct ttm_buffer_object {
* either of these locks held.
*/
- unsigned long offset;
+ uint64_t offset; /* GPU address space is independent of CPU word size */
uint32_t cur_placement;
struct sg_table *sg;
diff --git a/include/drm/ttm/ttm_bo_driver.h b/include/drm/ttm/ttm_bo_driver.h
index 142d752..813042c 100644
--- a/include/drm/ttm/ttm_bo_driver.h
+++ b/include/drm/ttm/ttm_bo_driver.h
@@ -277,7 +277,7 @@ struct ttm_mem_type_manager {
bool has_type;
bool use_type;
uint32_t flags;
- unsigned long gpu_offset;
+ uint64_t gpu_offset; /* GPU address space is independent of CPU word size */
uint64_t size;
uint32_t available_caching;
uint32_t default_caching;
--
1.8.3.1
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^ permalink raw reply related [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread* RE: [PATCH] drm/ttm: device address space != CPU address space
2015-03-04 5:18 [PATCH] drm/ttm: device address space != CPU address space Alex Deucher
@ 2015-03-04 7:14 ` Zhou, Jammy
2015-03-04 8:01 ` Thomas Hellstrom
1 sibling, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread
From: Zhou, Jammy @ 2015-03-04 7:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Alex Deucher, dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org
Cc: Deucher, Alexander, thellstrom@vmware.com
Patch is Reviewed-by: Jammy Zhou <Jammy.Zhou@amd.com>
Regards,
Jammy
-----Original Message-----
From: dri-devel [mailto:dri-devel-bounces@lists.freedesktop.org] On Behalf Of Alex Deucher
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2015 1:19 PM
To: dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org
Cc: Deucher, Alexander; thellstrom@vmware.com
Subject: [PATCH] drm/ttm: device address space != CPU address space
We need to store device offsets in 64 bit as the device address space may be larger than the CPU's.
Fixes GPU init failures on radeons with 4GB or more of vram on 32 bit kernels. We put vram at the start of the GPU's address space so the gart aperture starts at 4 GB causing all GPU addresses in the gart aperture to get truncated.
bug:
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89072
Signed-off-by: Alex Deucher <alexander.deucher@amd.com>
Cc: thellstrom@vmware.com
---
Untested. Someone more familiar with the ttm internals can probably point out any additional bits I missed. Heading to bed now.
drivers/gpu/drm/ttm/ttm_bo.c | 2 +-
include/drm/ttm/ttm_bo_api.h | 2 +-
include/drm/ttm/ttm_bo_driver.h | 2 +-
3 files changed, 3 insertions(+), 3 deletions(-)
diff --git a/drivers/gpu/drm/ttm/ttm_bo.c b/drivers/gpu/drm/ttm/ttm_bo.c index d395b0b..8d9b7de 100644
--- a/drivers/gpu/drm/ttm/ttm_bo.c
+++ b/drivers/gpu/drm/ttm/ttm_bo.c
@@ -74,7 +74,7 @@ static void ttm_mem_type_debug(struct ttm_bo_device *bdev, int mem_type)
pr_err(" has_type: %d\n", man->has_type);
pr_err(" use_type: %d\n", man->use_type);
pr_err(" flags: 0x%08X\n", man->flags);
- pr_err(" gpu_offset: 0x%08lX\n", man->gpu_offset);
+ pr_err(" gpu_offset: 0x%08llX\n", man->gpu_offset);
pr_err(" size: %llu\n", man->size);
pr_err(" available_caching: 0x%08X\n", man->available_caching);
pr_err(" default_caching: 0x%08X\n", man->default_caching);
diff --git a/include/drm/ttm/ttm_bo_api.h b/include/drm/ttm/ttm_bo_api.h index 0ccf7f2..c768ddf 100644
--- a/include/drm/ttm/ttm_bo_api.h
+++ b/include/drm/ttm/ttm_bo_api.h
@@ -249,7 +249,7 @@ struct ttm_buffer_object {
* either of these locks held.
*/
- unsigned long offset;
+ uint64_t offset; /* GPU address space is independent of CPU word size
+*/
uint32_t cur_placement;
struct sg_table *sg;
diff --git a/include/drm/ttm/ttm_bo_driver.h b/include/drm/ttm/ttm_bo_driver.h index 142d752..813042c 100644
--- a/include/drm/ttm/ttm_bo_driver.h
+++ b/include/drm/ttm/ttm_bo_driver.h
@@ -277,7 +277,7 @@ struct ttm_mem_type_manager {
bool has_type;
bool use_type;
uint32_t flags;
- unsigned long gpu_offset;
+ uint64_t gpu_offset; /* GPU address space is independent of CPU word
+size */
uint64_t size;
uint32_t available_caching;
uint32_t default_caching;
--
1.8.3.1
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread* Re: [PATCH] drm/ttm: device address space != CPU address space
2015-03-04 5:18 [PATCH] drm/ttm: device address space != CPU address space Alex Deucher
2015-03-04 7:14 ` Zhou, Jammy
@ 2015-03-04 8:01 ` Thomas Hellstrom
2015-03-04 9:33 ` Christian König
1 sibling, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread
From: Thomas Hellstrom @ 2015-03-04 8:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Alex Deucher; +Cc: Alex Deucher, dri-devel
Hi!
IIRC, the interpretation of gpu_offset is fully controlled by the
driver. That means to keep a native integer size
you should be able to set
radeon_gpu_offset := (ttm_gpu_offset << suitable_shift);
However, if you feel that this is too intrusive in the driver, I'm not
against the current patch as it stands. It's important, however that the
interactions with drm_mm is sorted out. I'm not sure the patch that
converted drm_mm to 64-bit instead
of unsigned long went in. (There were similar arguments against that patch).
Thanks,
Thomas
On 03/04/2015 06:18 AM, Alex Deucher wrote:
> We need to store device offsets in 64 bit as the device
> address space may be larger than the CPU's.
>
> Fixes GPU init failures on radeons with 4GB or more of
> vram on 32 bit kernels. We put vram at the start of the
> GPU's address space so the gart aperture starts at 4 GB
> causing all GPU addresses in the gart aperture to get
> truncated.
>
> bug:
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__bugs.freedesktop.org_show-5Fbug.cgi-3Fid-3D89072&d=AwIBAg&c=Sqcl0Ez6M0X8aeM67LKIiDJAXVeAw-YihVMNtXt-uEs&r=vpukPkBtpoNQp2IUKuFviOmPNYWVKmen3Jeeu55zmEA&m=M1rvbqZd6hlmRIsZmBXhSypX4cSQqZSddym13SRVKtg&s=sriG7bnxL46LbaYmq_FnswHY9WOrPvTbdK7um05zoxE&e=
>
> Signed-off-by: Alex Deucher <alexander.deucher@amd.com>
> Cc: thellstrom@vmware.com
> ---
> Untested. Someone more familiar with the ttm internals can
> probably point out any additional bits I missed. Heading to
> bed now.
>
> drivers/gpu/drm/ttm/ttm_bo.c | 2 +-
> include/drm/ttm/ttm_bo_api.h | 2 +-
> include/drm/ttm/ttm_bo_driver.h | 2 +-
> 3 files changed, 3 insertions(+), 3 deletions(-)
>
> diff --git a/drivers/gpu/drm/ttm/ttm_bo.c b/drivers/gpu/drm/ttm/ttm_bo.c
> index d395b0b..8d9b7de 100644
> --- a/drivers/gpu/drm/ttm/ttm_bo.c
> +++ b/drivers/gpu/drm/ttm/ttm_bo.c
> @@ -74,7 +74,7 @@ static void ttm_mem_type_debug(struct ttm_bo_device *bdev, int mem_type)
> pr_err(" has_type: %d\n", man->has_type);
> pr_err(" use_type: %d\n", man->use_type);
> pr_err(" flags: 0x%08X\n", man->flags);
> - pr_err(" gpu_offset: 0x%08lX\n", man->gpu_offset);
> + pr_err(" gpu_offset: 0x%08llX\n", man->gpu_offset);
> pr_err(" size: %llu\n", man->size);
> pr_err(" available_caching: 0x%08X\n", man->available_caching);
> pr_err(" default_caching: 0x%08X\n", man->default_caching);
> diff --git a/include/drm/ttm/ttm_bo_api.h b/include/drm/ttm/ttm_bo_api.h
> index 0ccf7f2..c768ddf 100644
> --- a/include/drm/ttm/ttm_bo_api.h
> +++ b/include/drm/ttm/ttm_bo_api.h
> @@ -249,7 +249,7 @@ struct ttm_buffer_object {
> * either of these locks held.
> */
>
> - unsigned long offset;
> + uint64_t offset; /* GPU address space is independent of CPU word size */
> uint32_t cur_placement;
>
> struct sg_table *sg;
> diff --git a/include/drm/ttm/ttm_bo_driver.h b/include/drm/ttm/ttm_bo_driver.h
> index 142d752..813042c 100644
> --- a/include/drm/ttm/ttm_bo_driver.h
> +++ b/include/drm/ttm/ttm_bo_driver.h
> @@ -277,7 +277,7 @@ struct ttm_mem_type_manager {
> bool has_type;
> bool use_type;
> uint32_t flags;
> - unsigned long gpu_offset;
> + uint64_t gpu_offset; /* GPU address space is independent of CPU word size */
> uint64_t size;
> uint32_t available_caching;
> uint32_t default_caching;
_______________________________________________
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http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/dri-devel
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread* Re: [PATCH] drm/ttm: device address space != CPU address space
2015-03-04 8:01 ` Thomas Hellstrom
@ 2015-03-04 9:33 ` Christian König
2015-03-04 9:36 ` Thomas Hellstrom
0 siblings, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread
From: Christian König @ 2015-03-04 9:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Thomas Hellstrom, Alex Deucher; +Cc: Alex Deucher, dri-devel
Even shifting doesn't help here. We have up to 48bits of physical
address space on modern systems with still 4K page size.
This means 48-12=36bit address space, that won't fit into a 32bit
integer no matter what.
Assuming we have already double checked drm_mm the patch is Reviewed-by:
Christian König <christian.koenig@amd.com>
Regards,
Christian.
On 04.03.2015 09:01, Thomas Hellstrom wrote:
> Hi!
>
> IIRC, the interpretation of gpu_offset is fully controlled by the
> driver. That means to keep a native integer size
> you should be able to set
>
> radeon_gpu_offset := (ttm_gpu_offset << suitable_shift);
>
> However, if you feel that this is too intrusive in the driver, I'm not
> against the current patch as it stands. It's important, however that the
> interactions with drm_mm is sorted out. I'm not sure the patch that
> converted drm_mm to 64-bit instead
> of unsigned long went in. (There were similar arguments against that patch).
>
> Thanks,
> Thomas
>
>
> On 03/04/2015 06:18 AM, Alex Deucher wrote:
>> We need to store device offsets in 64 bit as the device
>> address space may be larger than the CPU's.
>>
>> Fixes GPU init failures on radeons with 4GB or more of
>> vram on 32 bit kernels. We put vram at the start of the
>> GPU's address space so the gart aperture starts at 4 GB
>> causing all GPU addresses in the gart aperture to get
>> truncated.
>>
>> bug:
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__bugs.freedesktop.org_show-5Fbug.cgi-3Fid-3D89072&d=AwIBAg&c=Sqcl0Ez6M0X8aeM67LKIiDJAXVeAw-YihVMNtXt-uEs&r=vpukPkBtpoNQp2IUKuFviOmPNYWVKmen3Jeeu55zmEA&m=M1rvbqZd6hlmRIsZmBXhSypX4cSQqZSddym13SRVKtg&s=sriG7bnxL46LbaYmq_FnswHY9WOrPvTbdK7um05zoxE&e=
>>
>> Signed-off-by: Alex Deucher <alexander.deucher@amd.com>
>> Cc: thellstrom@vmware.com
>> ---
>> Untested. Someone more familiar with the ttm internals can
>> probably point out any additional bits I missed. Heading to
>> bed now.
>>
>> drivers/gpu/drm/ttm/ttm_bo.c | 2 +-
>> include/drm/ttm/ttm_bo_api.h | 2 +-
>> include/drm/ttm/ttm_bo_driver.h | 2 +-
>> 3 files changed, 3 insertions(+), 3 deletions(-)
>>
>> diff --git a/drivers/gpu/drm/ttm/ttm_bo.c b/drivers/gpu/drm/ttm/ttm_bo.c
>> index d395b0b..8d9b7de 100644
>> --- a/drivers/gpu/drm/ttm/ttm_bo.c
>> +++ b/drivers/gpu/drm/ttm/ttm_bo.c
>> @@ -74,7 +74,7 @@ static void ttm_mem_type_debug(struct ttm_bo_device *bdev, int mem_type)
>> pr_err(" has_type: %d\n", man->has_type);
>> pr_err(" use_type: %d\n", man->use_type);
>> pr_err(" flags: 0x%08X\n", man->flags);
>> - pr_err(" gpu_offset: 0x%08lX\n", man->gpu_offset);
>> + pr_err(" gpu_offset: 0x%08llX\n", man->gpu_offset);
>> pr_err(" size: %llu\n", man->size);
>> pr_err(" available_caching: 0x%08X\n", man->available_caching);
>> pr_err(" default_caching: 0x%08X\n", man->default_caching);
>> diff --git a/include/drm/ttm/ttm_bo_api.h b/include/drm/ttm/ttm_bo_api.h
>> index 0ccf7f2..c768ddf 100644
>> --- a/include/drm/ttm/ttm_bo_api.h
>> +++ b/include/drm/ttm/ttm_bo_api.h
>> @@ -249,7 +249,7 @@ struct ttm_buffer_object {
>> * either of these locks held.
>> */
>>
>> - unsigned long offset;
>> + uint64_t offset; /* GPU address space is independent of CPU word size */
>> uint32_t cur_placement;
>>
>> struct sg_table *sg;
>> diff --git a/include/drm/ttm/ttm_bo_driver.h b/include/drm/ttm/ttm_bo_driver.h
>> index 142d752..813042c 100644
>> --- a/include/drm/ttm/ttm_bo_driver.h
>> +++ b/include/drm/ttm/ttm_bo_driver.h
>> @@ -277,7 +277,7 @@ struct ttm_mem_type_manager {
>> bool has_type;
>> bool use_type;
>> uint32_t flags;
>> - unsigned long gpu_offset;
>> + uint64_t gpu_offset; /* GPU address space is independent of CPU word size */
>> uint64_t size;
>> uint32_t available_caching;
>> uint32_t default_caching;
> _______________________________________________
> dri-devel mailing list
> dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org
> http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/dri-devel
_______________________________________________
dri-devel mailing list
dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org
http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/dri-devel
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread* Re: [PATCH] drm/ttm: device address space != CPU address space
2015-03-04 9:33 ` Christian König
@ 2015-03-04 9:36 ` Thomas Hellstrom
0 siblings, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread
From: Thomas Hellstrom @ 2015-03-04 9:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Christian König; +Cc: Alex Deucher, dri-devel
OK. Understood.
Also, conditioned on drm_mm compatibility (which is really a driver issue),
Acked-by: Thomas Hellstrom <thellstrom@vmware.com>
On 03/04/2015 10:33 AM, Christian König wrote:
> Even shifting doesn't help here. We have up to 48bits of physical
> address space on modern systems with still 4K page size.
>
> This means 48-12=36bit address space, that won't fit into a 32bit
> integer no matter what.
>
> Assuming we have already double checked drm_mm the patch is
> Reviewed-by: Christian König <christian.koenig@amd.com>
>
> Regards,
> Christian.
>
> On 04.03.2015 09:01, Thomas Hellstrom wrote:
>> Hi!
>>
>> IIRC, the interpretation of gpu_offset is fully controlled by the
>> driver. That means to keep a native integer size
>> you should be able to set
>>
>> radeon_gpu_offset := (ttm_gpu_offset << suitable_shift);
>>
>> However, if you feel that this is too intrusive in the driver, I'm not
>> against the current patch as it stands. It's important, however that the
>> interactions with drm_mm is sorted out. I'm not sure the patch that
>> converted drm_mm to 64-bit instead
>> of unsigned long went in. (There were similar arguments against that
>> patch).
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Thomas
>>
>>
>> On 03/04/2015 06:18 AM, Alex Deucher wrote:
>>> We need to store device offsets in 64 bit as the device
>>> address space may be larger than the CPU's.
>>>
>>> Fixes GPU init failures on radeons with 4GB or more of
>>> vram on 32 bit kernels. We put vram at the start of the
>>> GPU's address space so the gart aperture starts at 4 GB
>>> causing all GPU addresses in the gart aperture to get
>>> truncated.
>>>
>>> bug:
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__bugs.freedesktop.org_show-5Fbug.cgi-3Fid-3D89072&d=AwIBAg&c=Sqcl0Ez6M0X8aeM67LKIiDJAXVeAw-YihVMNtXt-uEs&r=vpukPkBtpoNQp2IUKuFviOmPNYWVKmen3Jeeu55zmEA&m=M1rvbqZd6hlmRIsZmBXhSypX4cSQqZSddym13SRVKtg&s=sriG7bnxL46LbaYmq_FnswHY9WOrPvTbdK7um05zoxE&e=
>>>
>>>
>>> Signed-off-by: Alex Deucher <alexander.deucher@amd.com>
>>> Cc: thellstrom@vmware.com
>>> ---
>>> Untested. Someone more familiar with the ttm internals can
>>> probably point out any additional bits I missed. Heading to
>>> bed now.
>>>
>>> drivers/gpu/drm/ttm/ttm_bo.c | 2 +-
>>> include/drm/ttm/ttm_bo_api.h | 2 +-
>>> include/drm/ttm/ttm_bo_driver.h | 2 +-
>>> 3 files changed, 3 insertions(+), 3 deletions(-)
>>>
>>> diff --git a/drivers/gpu/drm/ttm/ttm_bo.c
>>> b/drivers/gpu/drm/ttm/ttm_bo.c
>>> index d395b0b..8d9b7de 100644
>>> --- a/drivers/gpu/drm/ttm/ttm_bo.c
>>> +++ b/drivers/gpu/drm/ttm/ttm_bo.c
>>> @@ -74,7 +74,7 @@ static void ttm_mem_type_debug(struct
>>> ttm_bo_device *bdev, int mem_type)
>>> pr_err(" has_type: %d\n", man->has_type);
>>> pr_err(" use_type: %d\n", man->use_type);
>>> pr_err(" flags: 0x%08X\n", man->flags);
>>> - pr_err(" gpu_offset: 0x%08lX\n", man->gpu_offset);
>>> + pr_err(" gpu_offset: 0x%08llX\n", man->gpu_offset);
>>> pr_err(" size: %llu\n", man->size);
>>> pr_err(" available_caching: 0x%08X\n",
>>> man->available_caching);
>>> pr_err(" default_caching: 0x%08X\n", man->default_caching);
>>> diff --git a/include/drm/ttm/ttm_bo_api.h
>>> b/include/drm/ttm/ttm_bo_api.h
>>> index 0ccf7f2..c768ddf 100644
>>> --- a/include/drm/ttm/ttm_bo_api.h
>>> +++ b/include/drm/ttm/ttm_bo_api.h
>>> @@ -249,7 +249,7 @@ struct ttm_buffer_object {
>>> * either of these locks held.
>>> */
>>> - unsigned long offset;
>>> + uint64_t offset; /* GPU address space is independent of CPU
>>> word size */
>>> uint32_t cur_placement;
>>> struct sg_table *sg;
>>> diff --git a/include/drm/ttm/ttm_bo_driver.h
>>> b/include/drm/ttm/ttm_bo_driver.h
>>> index 142d752..813042c 100644
>>> --- a/include/drm/ttm/ttm_bo_driver.h
>>> +++ b/include/drm/ttm/ttm_bo_driver.h
>>> @@ -277,7 +277,7 @@ struct ttm_mem_type_manager {
>>> bool has_type;
>>> bool use_type;
>>> uint32_t flags;
>>> - unsigned long gpu_offset;
>>> + uint64_t gpu_offset; /* GPU address space is independent of CPU
>>> word size */
>>> uint64_t size;
>>> uint32_t available_caching;
>>> uint32_t default_caching;
>> _______________________________________________
>> dri-devel mailing list
>> dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.freedesktop.org_mailman_listinfo_dri-2Ddevel&d=AwIDaQ&c=Sqcl0Ez6M0X8aeM67LKIiDJAXVeAw-YihVMNtXt-uEs&r=vpukPkBtpoNQp2IUKuFviOmPNYWVKmen3Jeeu55zmEA&m=OZUnRVpjH7RJ-rhjZ9RYGh_B9euuww9Hi2CoMW17QZY&s=mxUmoWCnh6WYNIPj7pCHCoCNuaAE-_rZAGKJpVd1r3Q&e=
>
>
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2015-03-04 9:36 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 5+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
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2015-03-04 5:18 [PATCH] drm/ttm: device address space != CPU address space Alex Deucher
2015-03-04 7:14 ` Zhou, Jammy
2015-03-04 8:01 ` Thomas Hellstrom
2015-03-04 9:33 ` Christian König
2015-03-04 9:36 ` Thomas Hellstrom
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