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From: Boaz Harrosh <boaz@plexistor.com>
To: Dave Chinner <david@fromorbit.com>,
	Matthew Wilcox <willy@linux.intel.com>
Cc: Matthew Wilcox <matthew.r.wilcox@intel.com>,
	linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, linux-mm@kvack.org,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, msharbiani@twopensource.com
Subject: Re: Should implementations of ->direct_access be allowed to sleep?
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2015 11:02:18 +0300	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <5517B18A.3050305@plexistor.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20150326193224.GA28129@dastard>

On 03/26/2015 09:32 PM, Dave Chinner wrote:
<>
>> I'm leaning towards the latter.  But I'm not sure what GFP flags to
>> recommend that brd use ... GFP_NOWAIT | __GFP_ZERO, perhaps?
> 
> What, so we get random IO failures under memory pressure?
> 
> I really think we should allow .direct_access to sleep. It means we
> can use existing drivers and it also allows future implementations
> that might require, say, RDMA to be performed to update a page
> before access is granted. i.e. .direct_access is the first hook into
> the persistent device at page fault time....
> 

I agree with Dave. Last I tried (couple years ago) doing any
allocation GFP_NOWAIT on FS IO paths fails really badly in all kind
of surprising ways. The Kernel is built in to that allocation pressure.

I think that ->direct_access should not be any different then
any other block-device access, ie allow to sleep.

With brd a user can make sure not to sleep if he pre-allocates
ie call ->direct_access at least once on a given offset-length.
But I would not like to even do that guaranty. ->direct_access
should be allowed to sleep.
Well written code has many ways to allow sleep yet be very low
latency. (So I do not see what we are missing)

> Cheers,
> Dave.

Thanks
Boaz

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WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Boaz Harrosh <boaz@plexistor.com>
To: Dave Chinner <david@fromorbit.com>,
	Matthew Wilcox <willy@linux.intel.com>
Cc: Matthew Wilcox <matthew.r.wilcox@intel.com>,
	linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, linux-mm@kvack.org,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, msharbiani@twopensource.com
Subject: Re: Should implementations of ->direct_access be allowed to sleep?
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2015 11:02:18 +0300	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <5517B18A.3050305@plexistor.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20150326193224.GA28129@dastard>

On 03/26/2015 09:32 PM, Dave Chinner wrote:
<>
>> I'm leaning towards the latter.  But I'm not sure what GFP flags to
>> recommend that brd use ... GFP_NOWAIT | __GFP_ZERO, perhaps?
> 
> What, so we get random IO failures under memory pressure?
> 
> I really think we should allow .direct_access to sleep. It means we
> can use existing drivers and it also allows future implementations
> that might require, say, RDMA to be performed to update a page
> before access is granted. i.e. .direct_access is the first hook into
> the persistent device at page fault time....
> 

I agree with Dave. Last I tried (couple years ago) doing any
allocation GFP_NOWAIT on FS IO paths fails really badly in all kind
of surprising ways. The Kernel is built in to that allocation pressure.

I think that ->direct_access should not be any different then
any other block-device access, ie allow to sleep.

With brd a user can make sure not to sleep if he pre-allocates
ie call ->direct_access at least once on a given offset-length.
But I would not like to even do that guaranty. ->direct_access
should be allowed to sleep.
Well written code has many ways to allow sleep yet be very low
latency. (So I do not see what we are missing)

> Cheers,
> Dave.

Thanks
Boaz


  reply	other threads:[~2015-03-29  8:02 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 169+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2014-09-25 20:33 [PATCH v11 00/21] Add support for NV-DIMMs to ext4 Matthew Wilcox
2014-09-25 20:33 ` Matthew Wilcox
2014-09-25 20:33 ` [PATCH v11 01/21] axonram: Fix bug in direct_access Matthew Wilcox
2014-09-25 20:33   ` Matthew Wilcox
2014-10-16  7:52   ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2014-10-16  7:52     ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2014-09-25 20:33 ` [PATCH v11 02/21] block: Change direct_access calling convention Matthew Wilcox
2014-09-25 20:33   ` Matthew Wilcox
2014-10-16  8:45   ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2014-10-16  8:45     ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2014-10-16 19:39     ` Matthew Wilcox
2014-10-16 19:39       ` Matthew Wilcox
2014-09-25 20:33 ` [PATCH v11 03/21] mm: Fix XIP fault vs truncate race Matthew Wilcox
2014-09-25 20:33   ` Matthew Wilcox
2014-10-16  8:56   ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2014-10-16  8:56     ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2014-09-25 20:33 ` [PATCH v11 04/21] mm: Allow page fault handlers to perform the COW Matthew Wilcox
2014-09-25 20:33   ` Matthew Wilcox
2014-10-16  9:12   ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2014-10-16  9:12     ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2014-10-16 19:48     ` Matthew Wilcox
2014-10-16 19:48       ` Matthew Wilcox
2014-10-17 15:35       ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2014-10-17 15:35         ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2014-10-18 17:22         ` Matthew Wilcox
2014-10-18 17:22           ` Matthew Wilcox
2014-09-25 20:33 ` [PATCH v11 05/21] vfs,ext2: Introduce IS_DAX(inode) Matthew Wilcox
2014-09-25 20:33   ` Matthew Wilcox
2014-10-16  9:35   ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2014-10-16  9:35     ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2014-09-25 20:33 ` [PATCH v11 06/21] vfs: Add copy_to_iter(), copy_from_iter() and iov_iter_zero() Matthew Wilcox
2014-09-25 20:33   ` Matthew Wilcox
2014-10-16 13:33   ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2014-10-16 13:33     ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2014-10-16 13:59     ` Matthew Wilcox
2014-10-16 13:59       ` Matthew Wilcox
2014-10-16 14:12       ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2014-10-16 14:12         ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2014-10-16 22:21         ` Matthew Wilcox
2014-10-16 22:21           ` Matthew Wilcox
2014-10-17 15:39           ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2014-10-17 15:39             ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2014-09-25 20:33 ` [PATCH v11 07/21] dax,ext2: Replace XIP read and write with DAX I/O Matthew Wilcox
2014-09-25 20:33   ` Matthew Wilcox
2014-10-16  9:50   ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2014-10-16  9:50     ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2014-10-16 19:51     ` Matthew Wilcox
2014-10-16 19:51       ` Matthew Wilcox
2014-10-16 22:33       ` Matthew Wilcox
2014-10-16 22:33         ` Matthew Wilcox
2014-10-17 15:52         ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2014-10-17 15:52           ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2014-09-25 20:33 ` [PATCH v11 08/21] dax,ext2: Replace ext2_clear_xip_target with dax_clear_blocks Matthew Wilcox
2014-09-25 20:33   ` Matthew Wilcox
2014-10-16 10:05   ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2014-10-16 10:05     ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2014-10-16 21:22     ` Matthew Wilcox
2014-10-16 21:22       ` Matthew Wilcox
2014-10-17 15:45       ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2014-10-17 15:45         ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2014-09-25 20:33 ` [PATCH v11 09/21] dax,ext2: Replace the XIP page fault handler with the DAX page fault handler Matthew Wilcox
2014-09-25 20:33   ` Matthew Wilcox
2014-10-16 10:20   ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2014-10-16 10:20     ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2014-10-16 21:29     ` Matthew Wilcox
2014-10-16 21:29       ` Matthew Wilcox
2014-09-25 20:33 ` [PATCH v11 10/21] dax,ext2: Replace xip_truncate_page with dax_truncate_page Matthew Wilcox
2014-09-25 20:33   ` Matthew Wilcox
2014-10-16 10:28   ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2014-10-16 10:28     ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2014-09-25 20:33 ` [PATCH v11 11/21] dax: Replace XIP documentation with DAX documentation Matthew Wilcox
2014-09-25 20:33   ` Matthew Wilcox
2014-10-16 12:08   ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2014-10-16 12:08     ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2014-09-25 20:33 ` [PATCH v11 12/21] vfs: Remove get_xip_mem Matthew Wilcox
2014-09-25 20:33   ` Matthew Wilcox
2014-10-16 12:14   ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2014-10-16 12:14     ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2014-10-16 21:44     ` Matthew Wilcox
2014-10-16 21:44       ` Matthew Wilcox
2014-09-25 20:33 ` [PATCH v11 13/21] ext2: Remove ext2_xip_verify_sb() Matthew Wilcox
2014-09-25 20:33   ` Matthew Wilcox
2014-10-16 12:18   ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2014-10-16 12:18     ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2014-10-16 21:45     ` Matthew Wilcox
2014-10-16 21:45       ` Matthew Wilcox
2014-09-25 20:33 ` [PATCH v11 14/21] ext2: Remove ext2_use_xip Matthew Wilcox
2014-09-25 20:33   ` Matthew Wilcox
2014-10-16 12:20   ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2014-10-16 12:20     ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2014-09-25 20:33 ` [PATCH v11 15/21] ext2: Remove xip.c and xip.h Matthew Wilcox
2014-09-25 20:33   ` Matthew Wilcox
2014-10-16 12:21   ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2014-10-16 12:21     ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2014-09-25 20:33 ` [PATCH v11 16/21] vfs,ext2: Remove CONFIG_EXT2_FS_XIP and rename CONFIG_FS_XIP to CONFIG_FS_DAX Matthew Wilcox
2014-09-25 20:33   ` Matthew Wilcox
2014-10-16 12:26   ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2014-10-16 12:26     ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2014-10-16 21:52     ` Matthew Wilcox
2014-10-16 21:52       ` Matthew Wilcox
2014-09-25 20:33 ` [PATCH v11 17/21] ext2: Remove ext2_aops_xip Matthew Wilcox
2014-09-25 20:33   ` Matthew Wilcox
2014-10-16 12:29   ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2014-10-16 12:29     ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2014-09-25 20:33 ` [PATCH v11 18/21] ext2: Get rid of most mentions of XIP in ext2 Matthew Wilcox
2014-09-25 20:33   ` Matthew Wilcox
2014-10-16 12:32   ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2014-10-16 12:32     ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2014-09-25 20:33 ` [PATCH v11 19/21] dax: Add dax_zero_page_range Matthew Wilcox
2014-09-25 20:33   ` Matthew Wilcox
2014-10-16 12:38   ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2014-10-16 12:38     ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2014-10-16 22:01     ` Matthew Wilcox
2014-10-16 22:01       ` Matthew Wilcox
2014-10-17 15:49       ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2014-10-17 15:49         ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2014-10-18 17:41         ` Matthew Wilcox
2014-10-18 17:41           ` Matthew Wilcox
2014-10-18 21:16           ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2014-10-18 21:16             ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2014-09-25 20:33 ` [PATCH v11 20/21] ext4: Add DAX functionality Matthew Wilcox
2014-09-25 20:33   ` Matthew Wilcox
2014-10-16 12:56   ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2014-10-16 12:56     ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2014-10-16 22:16     ` Matthew Wilcox
2014-10-16 22:16       ` Matthew Wilcox
2014-10-17 15:42       ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2014-10-17 15:42         ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2014-09-25 20:33 ` [PATCH v11 21/21] brd: Rename XIP to DAX Matthew Wilcox
2014-09-25 20:33   ` Matthew Wilcox
2014-10-16 13:00   ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2014-10-16 13:00     ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2015-03-24 18:50   ` Matt Mullins
2015-03-24 18:50     ` Matt Mullins
2015-03-25  3:25     ` Dave Chinner
2015-03-25  3:25       ` Dave Chinner
2015-03-26 17:09     ` Should implementations of ->direct_access be allowed to sleep? Matthew Wilcox
2015-03-26 17:09       ` Matthew Wilcox
2015-03-26 19:32       ` Dave Chinner
2015-03-26 19:32         ` Dave Chinner
2015-03-29  8:02         ` Boaz Harrosh [this message]
2015-03-29  8:02           ` Boaz Harrosh
2015-03-29  9:13           ` Boaz Harrosh
2015-03-29  9:13             ` Boaz Harrosh
2014-09-25 20:47 ` [PATCH v11 00/21] Add support for NV-DIMMs to ext4 Matthew Wilcox
2014-09-25 20:47   ` Matthew Wilcox
2014-09-30  9:45 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2014-09-30 14:48   ` Matthew Wilcox
2014-09-30 14:48     ` Matthew Wilcox
2014-09-30 14:53     ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2014-09-30 16:08       ` Matthew Wilcox
2014-09-30 16:08         ` Matthew Wilcox
2014-09-30 17:10         ` Zuckerman, Boris
2014-09-30 17:10           ` Zuckerman, Boris
2014-09-30 19:24           ` Matthew Wilcox
2014-09-30 19:24             ` Matthew Wilcox
2014-09-30 19:31             ` Zuckerman, Boris
2014-09-30 19:31               ` Zuckerman, Boris
2014-09-30 20:37         ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2014-09-30 21:25           ` Andreas Dilger
2014-09-30 21:52             ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2014-10-01 15:45               ` Jeff Moyer
2014-10-01 15:45                 ` Jeff Moyer
2014-10-01 17:10                 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2014-10-01 17:17                 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2014-10-16  7:39 ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2014-10-16  7:39   ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2014-10-16 14:11   ` Matthew Wilcox
2014-10-16 14:11     ` Matthew Wilcox

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