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From: Vlastimil Babka <vbabka-AlSwsSmVLrQ@public.gmane.org>
To: Eric B Munson <emunson-JqFfY2XvxFXQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
Cc: Andrew Morton
	<akpm-de/tnXTf+JLsfHDXvbKv3WD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org>,
	Shuah Khan <shuahkh-JPH+aEBZ4P+UEJcrhfAQsw@public.gmane.org>,
	Michal Hocko <mhocko-AlSwsSmVLrQ@public.gmane.org>,
	Michael Kerrisk
	<mtk.manpages-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>,
	linux-alpha-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org,
	linux-kernel-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org,
	linux-mips-6z/3iImG2C8G8FEW9MqTrA@public.gmane.org,
	linux-parisc-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org,
	linuxppc-dev-uLR06cmDAlY/bJ5BZ2RsiQ@public.gmane.org,
	sparclinux-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org,
	linux-xtensa-PjhNF2WwrV/0Sa2dR60CXw@public.gmane.org,
	linux-mm-Bw31MaZKKs3YtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org,
	linux-arch-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org,
	linux-api-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [RESEND PATCH V2 0/3] Allow user to request memory to be locked on page fault
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2015 15:04:22 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <55895956.5020707@suse.cz> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20150615144356.GB12300-JqFfY2XvxFXQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>

On 06/15/2015 04:43 PM, Eric B Munson wrote:
>> Note that the semantic of MAP_LOCKED can be subtly surprising:
>>
>> "mlock(2) fails if the memory range cannot get populated to guarantee
>> that no future major faults will happen on the range.
>> mmap(MAP_LOCKED) on the other hand silently succeeds even if the
>> range was populated only
>> partially."
>>
>> ( from http://marc.info/?l=linux-mm&m=143152790412727&w=2 )
>>
>> So MAP_LOCKED can silently behave like MAP_LOCKONFAULT. While
>> MAP_LOCKONFAULT doesn't suffer from such problem, I wonder if that's
>> sufficient reason not to extend mmap by new mlock() flags that can
>> be instead applied to the VMA after mmapping, using the proposed
>> mlock2() with flags. So I think instead we could deprecate
>> MAP_LOCKED more prominently. I doubt the overhead of calling the
>> extra syscall matters here?
>
> We could talk about retiring the MAP_LOCKED flag but I suspect that
> would get significantly more pushback than adding a new mmap flag.

Oh no we can't "retire" as in remove the flag, ever. Just not continue 
the way of mmap() flags related to mlock().

> Likely that the overhead does not matter in most cases, but presumably
> there are cases where it does (as we have a MAP_LOCKED flag today).
> Even with the proposed new system calls I think we should have the
> MAP_LOCKONFAULT for parity with MAP_LOCKED.

I'm not convinced, but it's not a major issue.

>>
>>> - mlock() takes a `flags' argument.  Presently that's
>>>    MLOCK_LOCKED|MLOCK_LOCKONFAULT.
>>>
>>> - munlock() takes a `flags' arument.  MLOCK_LOCKED|MLOCK_LOCKONFAULT
>>>    to specify which flags are being cleared.
>>>
>>> - mlockall() and munlockall() ditto.
>>>
>>>
>>> IOW, LOCKED and LOCKEDONFAULT are treated identically and independently.
>>>
>>> Now, that's how we would have designed all this on day one.  And I
>>> think we can do this now, by adding new mlock2() and munlock2()
>>> syscalls.  And we may as well deprecate the old mlock() and munlock(),
>>> not that this matters much.
>>>
>>> *should* we do this?  I'm thinking "yes" - it's all pretty simple
>>> boilerplate and wrappers and such, and it gets the interface correct,
>>> and extensible.
>>
>> If the new LOCKONFAULT functionality is indeed desired (I haven't
>> still decided myself) then I agree that would be the cleanest way.
>
> Do you disagree with the use cases I have listed or do you think there
> is a better way of addressing those cases?

I'm somewhat sceptical about the security one. Are security sensitive 
buffers that large to matter? The performance one is more convincing and 
I don't see a better way, so OK.

>
>>
>>> What do others think?

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Vlastimil Babka <vbabka@suse.cz>
To: Eric B Munson <emunson@akamai.com>
Cc: Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Shuah Khan <shuahkh@osg.samsung.com>,
	Michal Hocko <mhocko@suse.cz>,
	Michael Kerrisk <mtk.manpages@gmail.com>,
	linux-alpha@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-mips@linux-mips.org, linux-parisc@vger.kernel.org,
	linuxppc-dev@lists.ozlabs.org, sparclinux@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-xtensa@linux-xtensa.org, linux-mm@kvack.org,
	linux-arch@vger.kernel.org, linux-api@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [RESEND PATCH V2 0/3] Allow user to request memory to be locked on page fault
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2015 15:04:22 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <55895956.5020707@suse.cz> (raw)
Message-ID: <20150623130422.YJC757c5zpGJmHD08noKoX4_GaYiB11aXBqV9zn1MUs@z> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20150615144356.GB12300@akamai.com>

On 06/15/2015 04:43 PM, Eric B Munson wrote:
>> Note that the semantic of MAP_LOCKED can be subtly surprising:
>>
>> "mlock(2) fails if the memory range cannot get populated to guarantee
>> that no future major faults will happen on the range.
>> mmap(MAP_LOCKED) on the other hand silently succeeds even if the
>> range was populated only
>> partially."
>>
>> ( from http://marc.info/?l=linux-mm&m=143152790412727&w=2 )
>>
>> So MAP_LOCKED can silently behave like MAP_LOCKONFAULT. While
>> MAP_LOCKONFAULT doesn't suffer from such problem, I wonder if that's
>> sufficient reason not to extend mmap by new mlock() flags that can
>> be instead applied to the VMA after mmapping, using the proposed
>> mlock2() with flags. So I think instead we could deprecate
>> MAP_LOCKED more prominently. I doubt the overhead of calling the
>> extra syscall matters here?
>
> We could talk about retiring the MAP_LOCKED flag but I suspect that
> would get significantly more pushback than adding a new mmap flag.

Oh no we can't "retire" as in remove the flag, ever. Just not continue 
the way of mmap() flags related to mlock().

> Likely that the overhead does not matter in most cases, but presumably
> there are cases where it does (as we have a MAP_LOCKED flag today).
> Even with the proposed new system calls I think we should have the
> MAP_LOCKONFAULT for parity with MAP_LOCKED.

I'm not convinced, but it's not a major issue.

>>
>>> - mlock() takes a `flags' argument.  Presently that's
>>>    MLOCK_LOCKED|MLOCK_LOCKONFAULT.
>>>
>>> - munlock() takes a `flags' arument.  MLOCK_LOCKED|MLOCK_LOCKONFAULT
>>>    to specify which flags are being cleared.
>>>
>>> - mlockall() and munlockall() ditto.
>>>
>>>
>>> IOW, LOCKED and LOCKEDONFAULT are treated identically and independently.
>>>
>>> Now, that's how we would have designed all this on day one.  And I
>>> think we can do this now, by adding new mlock2() and munlock2()
>>> syscalls.  And we may as well deprecate the old mlock() and munlock(),
>>> not that this matters much.
>>>
>>> *should* we do this?  I'm thinking "yes" - it's all pretty simple
>>> boilerplate and wrappers and such, and it gets the interface correct,
>>> and extensible.
>>
>> If the new LOCKONFAULT functionality is indeed desired (I haven't
>> still decided myself) then I agree that would be the cleanest way.
>
> Do you disagree with the use cases I have listed or do you think there
> is a better way of addressing those cases?

I'm somewhat sceptical about the security one. Are security sensitive 
buffers that large to matter? The performance one is more convincing and 
I don't see a better way, so OK.

>
>>
>>> What do others think?


WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Vlastimil Babka <vbabka@suse.cz>
To: Eric B Munson <emunson-JqFfY2XvxFXQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
Cc: Andrew Morton
	<akpm-de/tnXTf+JLsfHDXvbKv3WD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org>,
	Shuah Khan <shuahkh-JPH+aEBZ4P+UEJcrhfAQsw@public.gmane.org>,
	Michal Hocko <mhocko-AlSwsSmVLrQ@public.gmane.org>,
	Michael Kerrisk
	<mtk.manpages-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>,
	linux-alpha-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org,
	linux-kernel-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org,
	linux-mips-6z/3iImG2C8G8FEW9MqTrA@public.gmane.org,
	linux-parisc-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org,
	linuxppc-dev-uLR06cmDAlY/bJ5BZ2RsiQ@public.gmane.org,
	sparclinux-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org,
	linux-xtensa-PjhNF2WwrV/0Sa2dR60CXw@public.gmane.org,
	linux-mm-Bw31MaZKKs3YtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org,
	linux-arch-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org,
	linux-api-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [RESEND PATCH V2 0/3] Allow user to request memory to be locked on page fault
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2015 13:04:22 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <55895956.5020707@suse.cz> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20150615144356.GB12300-JqFfY2XvxFXQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>

On 06/15/2015 04:43 PM, Eric B Munson wrote:
>> Note that the semantic of MAP_LOCKED can be subtly surprising:
>>
>> "mlock(2) fails if the memory range cannot get populated to guarantee
>> that no future major faults will happen on the range.
>> mmap(MAP_LOCKED) on the other hand silently succeeds even if the
>> range was populated only
>> partially."
>>
>> ( from http://marc.info/?l=linux-mm&m\x143152790412727&w=2 )
>>
>> So MAP_LOCKED can silently behave like MAP_LOCKONFAULT. While
>> MAP_LOCKONFAULT doesn't suffer from such problem, I wonder if that's
>> sufficient reason not to extend mmap by new mlock() flags that can
>> be instead applied to the VMA after mmapping, using the proposed
>> mlock2() with flags. So I think instead we could deprecate
>> MAP_LOCKED more prominently. I doubt the overhead of calling the
>> extra syscall matters here?
>
> We could talk about retiring the MAP_LOCKED flag but I suspect that
> would get significantly more pushback than adding a new mmap flag.

Oh no we can't "retire" as in remove the flag, ever. Just not continue 
the way of mmap() flags related to mlock().

> Likely that the overhead does not matter in most cases, but presumably
> there are cases where it does (as we have a MAP_LOCKED flag today).
> Even with the proposed new system calls I think we should have the
> MAP_LOCKONFAULT for parity with MAP_LOCKED.

I'm not convinced, but it's not a major issue.

>>
>>> - mlock() takes a `flags' argument.  Presently that's
>>>    MLOCK_LOCKED|MLOCK_LOCKONFAULT.
>>>
>>> - munlock() takes a `flags' arument.  MLOCK_LOCKED|MLOCK_LOCKONFAULT
>>>    to specify which flags are being cleared.
>>>
>>> - mlockall() and munlockall() ditto.
>>>
>>>
>>> IOW, LOCKED and LOCKEDONFAULT are treated identically and independently.
>>>
>>> Now, that's how we would have designed all this on day one.  And I
>>> think we can do this now, by adding new mlock2() and munlock2()
>>> syscalls.  And we may as well deprecate the old mlock() and munlock(),
>>> not that this matters much.
>>>
>>> *should* we do this?  I'm thinking "yes" - it's all pretty simple
>>> boilerplate and wrappers and such, and it gets the interface correct,
>>> and extensible.
>>
>> If the new LOCKONFAULT functionality is indeed desired (I haven't
>> still decided myself) then I agree that would be the cleanest way.
>
> Do you disagree with the use cases I have listed or do you think there
> is a better way of addressing those cases?

I'm somewhat sceptical about the security one. Are security sensitive 
buffers that large to matter? The performance one is more convincing and 
I don't see a better way, so OK.

>
>>
>>> What do others think?


WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Vlastimil Babka <vbabka@suse.cz>
To: Eric B Munson <emunson@akamai.com>
Cc: Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Shuah Khan <shuahkh@osg.samsung.com>,
	Michal Hocko <mhocko@suse.cz>,
	Michael Kerrisk <mtk.manpages@gmail.com>,
	linux-alpha@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-mips@linux-mips.org, linux-parisc@vger.kernel.org,
	linuxppc-dev@lists.ozlabs.org, sparclinux@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-xtensa@linux-xtensa.org, linux-mm@kvack.org,
	linux-arch@vger.kernel.org, linux-api@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [RESEND PATCH V2 0/3] Allow user to request memory to be locked on page fault
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2015 15:04:22 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <55895956.5020707@suse.cz> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20150615144356.GB12300@akamai.com>

On 06/15/2015 04:43 PM, Eric B Munson wrote:
>> Note that the semantic of MAP_LOCKED can be subtly surprising:
>>
>> "mlock(2) fails if the memory range cannot get populated to guarantee
>> that no future major faults will happen on the range.
>> mmap(MAP_LOCKED) on the other hand silently succeeds even if the
>> range was populated only
>> partially."
>>
>> ( from http://marc.info/?l=linux-mm&m=143152790412727&w=2 )
>>
>> So MAP_LOCKED can silently behave like MAP_LOCKONFAULT. While
>> MAP_LOCKONFAULT doesn't suffer from such problem, I wonder if that's
>> sufficient reason not to extend mmap by new mlock() flags that can
>> be instead applied to the VMA after mmapping, using the proposed
>> mlock2() with flags. So I think instead we could deprecate
>> MAP_LOCKED more prominently. I doubt the overhead of calling the
>> extra syscall matters here?
>
> We could talk about retiring the MAP_LOCKED flag but I suspect that
> would get significantly more pushback than adding a new mmap flag.

Oh no we can't "retire" as in remove the flag, ever. Just not continue 
the way of mmap() flags related to mlock().

> Likely that the overhead does not matter in most cases, but presumably
> there are cases where it does (as we have a MAP_LOCKED flag today).
> Even with the proposed new system calls I think we should have the
> MAP_LOCKONFAULT for parity with MAP_LOCKED.

I'm not convinced, but it's not a major issue.

>>
>>> - mlock() takes a `flags' argument.  Presently that's
>>>    MLOCK_LOCKED|MLOCK_LOCKONFAULT.
>>>
>>> - munlock() takes a `flags' arument.  MLOCK_LOCKED|MLOCK_LOCKONFAULT
>>>    to specify which flags are being cleared.
>>>
>>> - mlockall() and munlockall() ditto.
>>>
>>>
>>> IOW, LOCKED and LOCKEDONFAULT are treated identically and independently.
>>>
>>> Now, that's how we would have designed all this on day one.  And I
>>> think we can do this now, by adding new mlock2() and munlock2()
>>> syscalls.  And we may as well deprecate the old mlock() and munlock(),
>>> not that this matters much.
>>>
>>> *should* we do this?  I'm thinking "yes" - it's all pretty simple
>>> boilerplate and wrappers and such, and it gets the interface correct,
>>> and extensible.
>>
>> If the new LOCKONFAULT functionality is indeed desired (I haven't
>> still decided myself) then I agree that would be the cleanest way.
>
> Do you disagree with the use cases I have listed or do you think there
> is a better way of addressing those cases?

I'm somewhat sceptical about the security one. Are security sensitive 
buffers that large to matter? The performance one is more convincing and 
I don't see a better way, so OK.

>
>>
>>> What do others think?

--
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  parent reply	other threads:[~2015-06-23 13:04 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 76+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2015-06-10 13:26 [RESEND PATCH V2 0/3] Allow user to request memory to be locked on page fault Eric B Munson
2015-06-10 13:26 ` Eric B Munson
2015-06-10 13:26 ` Eric B Munson
2015-06-10 13:26 ` [RESEND PATCH V2 1/3] Add mmap flag to request pages are locked after " Eric B Munson
2015-06-10 13:26   ` Eric B Munson
2015-06-10 13:26   ` Eric B Munson
2015-06-18 15:29   ` Michal Hocko
2015-06-18 15:29     ` Michal Hocko
2015-06-18 15:29     ` Michal Hocko
2015-06-18 20:30     ` Eric B Munson
2015-06-18 20:30       ` Eric B Munson
2015-06-19 14:57       ` Michal Hocko
2015-06-19 14:57         ` Michal Hocko
2015-06-19 14:57         ` Michal Hocko
2015-06-19 14:57         ` Michal Hocko
2015-06-19 14:57         ` Michal Hocko
2015-06-19 14:57         ` Michal Hocko
2015-06-19 16:43         ` Eric B Munson
2015-06-19 16:43           ` Eric B Munson
     [not found]           ` <20150619164333.GD2329-JqFfY2XvxFXQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2015-06-22 12:38             ` Michal Hocko
2015-06-22 12:38               ` Michal Hocko
2015-06-22 12:38               ` Michal Hocko
2015-06-22 12:38               ` Michal Hocko
2015-06-22 12:38               ` Michal Hocko
2015-06-22 12:38               ` Michal Hocko
     [not found]               ` <20150622123826.GF4430-2MMpYkNvuYDjFM9bn6wA6Q@public.gmane.org>
2015-06-22 14:18                 ` Eric B Munson
2015-06-22 14:18                   ` Eric B Munson
2015-06-22 14:18                   ` Eric B Munson
2015-06-23 12:45                   ` Vlastimil Babka
2015-06-23 12:45                     ` Vlastimil Babka
2015-06-23 12:45                     ` Vlastimil Babka
     [not found]                     ` <558954DD.4060405-AlSwsSmVLrQ@public.gmane.org>
2015-06-24  9:47                       ` Michal Hocko
2015-06-24  9:47                         ` Michal Hocko
2015-06-24  9:47                         ` Michal Hocko
2015-06-24  9:47                         ` Michal Hocko
2015-06-24  8:50                   ` Michal Hocko
2015-06-24  8:50                     ` Michal Hocko
2015-06-24  8:50                     ` Michal Hocko
2015-06-25 14:46                     ` Eric B Munson
2015-06-25 14:46                       ` Eric B Munson
2015-06-10 13:26 ` [RESEND PATCH V2 2/3] Add mlockall flag for locking pages on fault Eric B Munson
2015-06-10 13:26   ` Eric B Munson
2015-06-10 13:26   ` Eric B Munson
     [not found] ` <1433942810-7852-1-git-send-email-emunson-JqFfY2XvxFXQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2015-06-10 13:26   ` [RESEND PATCH V2 3/3] Add tests for lock " Eric B Munson
2015-06-10 13:26     ` Eric B Munson
2015-06-10 13:26     ` Eric B Munson
2015-06-10 21:59   ` [RESEND PATCH V2 0/3] Allow user to request memory to be locked on page fault Andrew Morton
2015-06-10 21:59     ` Andrew Morton
2015-06-10 21:59     ` Andrew Morton
2015-06-10 21:59     ` Andrew Morton
2015-06-11 19:21     ` Eric B Munson
2015-06-11 19:21       ` Eric B Munson
2015-06-11 19:21       ` Eric B Munson
2015-06-11 19:21       ` Eric B Munson
2015-06-11 19:34       ` Andrew Morton
2015-06-11 19:34         ` Andrew Morton
2015-06-11 19:34         ` Andrew Morton
2015-06-11 19:55         ` Eric B Munson
2015-06-11 19:55           ` Eric B Munson
2015-06-11 19:55           ` Eric B Munson
2015-06-12 12:05         ` Vlastimil Babka
2015-06-12 12:05           ` Vlastimil Babka
2015-06-12 12:05           ` Vlastimil Babka
2015-06-15 14:43           ` Eric B Munson
2015-06-15 14:43             ` Eric B Munson
     [not found]             ` <20150615144356.GB12300-JqFfY2XvxFXQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2015-06-23 13:04               ` Vlastimil Babka [this message]
2015-06-23 13:04                 ` Vlastimil Babka
2015-06-23 13:04                 ` Vlastimil Babka
2015-06-23 13:04                 ` Vlastimil Babka
2015-06-25 14:16                 ` Eric B Munson
2015-06-25 14:16                   ` Eric B Munson
2015-06-25 14:26                   ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-06-25 14:26                     ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-06-25 14:26                     ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-06-15 14:39         ` Eric B Munson
2015-06-15 14:39           ` Eric B Munson

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