[REANNOUNCE] Audio Mini Summit 2015, 8th October, Dublin

[REANNOUNCE] Audio Mini Summit 2015, 8th October, Dublin

[Mark Brown]

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Like previous years, we're going to hold a meeting to discuss
lowlevel audio on Linux.  This will be held the day after ELC Europe on
8th October at CCD (The Convention Centre) in Dublin.

If you're interested please sign up in the attendee list:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bi-8GHsqlzt41FR20WiMuWILe_cZowFireVMBd-QM8Q/edit?usp=sharing

and please follow up to this mail with any topics you'd like to see
raised so we can start collecting them (probably another Google doc will
be forthcoming for them).

Previously suggested topics include:

 - Reducing kernel size for IoT applications
 - ACPI simple-card
 - Testing tools

Thanks,
Mark

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Re: [REANNOUNCE] Audio Mini Summit 2015, 8th October, Dublin

[Alexander E. Patrakov]

14.07.2015 20:03, Mark Brown wrote:
> Like previous years, we're going to hold a meeting to discuss
> lowlevel audio on Linux.  This will be held the day after ELC Europe on
> 8th October at CCD (The Convention Centre) in Dublin.
>
> If you're interested please sign up in the attendee list:
>
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bi-8GHsqlzt41FR20WiMuWILe_cZowFireVMBd-QM8Q/edit?usp=sharing
>
> and please follow up to this mail with any topics you'd like to see
> raised so we can start collecting them (probably another Google doc will
> be forthcoming for them).

I would like to see some direct measurements related to recent 
power-saving proposals, including the "disable rewinds" flag. Myself, I 
can redo battery-life measurements on Intel-based laptops that my 
colleagues have, and maybe compare dmix, PulseAudio and CRAS in terms of 
power consumption.

Ideally, I would like to reevaluate the design decisions (namely, the 
need to keep the system responsive to new streams while keeping the 
average wakeup rate as low as possible, IMHO even to the point of 
"absurdly low") that led to the need to support rewinds (and the 
associated complexity) in the first place. Reminder: on my Sony VAIO 
VPC-Z23A4R laptop and hw:0 device, in an unrealistic test with the 
screen turned off, wi-fi turned off, and the SSDs put to sleep, going 
from 200 to 1 wakeup per second saved only 935 seconds of battery life 
out of 25742.

-- 
Alexander E. Patrakov

Re: [REANNOUNCE] Audio Mini Summit 2015, 8th October, Dublin

[Mark Brown]

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On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 09:04:30PM +0500, Alexander E. Patrakov wrote:

> I would like to see some direct measurements related to recent power-saving
> proposals, including the "disable rewinds" flag. Myself, I can redo
> battery-life measurements on Intel-based laptops that my colleagues have,
> and maybe compare dmix, PulseAudio and CRAS in terms of power consumption.

The numbers I seem to remember seeing at the time were these IIRC:

   http://linux-tipps.blogspot.co.uk/2011/04/power-performance-of-pulseaudio-alsa.html

saying there was a 0.4W win (I think Arun had some similar numbers).

> Ideally, I would like to reevaluate the design decisions (namely, the need
> to keep the system responsive to new streams while keeping the average
> wakeup rate as low as possible, IMHO even to the point of "absurdly low")
> that led to the need to support rewinds (and the associated complexity) in
> the first place. Reminder: on my Sony VAIO VPC-Z23A4R laptop and hw:0
> device, in an unrealistic test with the screen turned off, wi-fi turned off,
> and the SSDs put to sleep, going from 200 to 1 wakeup per second saved only
> 935 seconds of battery life out of 25742.

I'm not sure how many embedded people would be willing to provide
numbers but it definitely makes a substantial difference there if you
can keep the CPUs powered down.

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Re: [REANNOUNCE] Audio Mini Summit 2015, 8th October, Dublin

[Alexander E. Patrakov]

14.07.2015 21:17, Mark Brown wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 09:04:30PM +0500, Alexander E. Patrakov wrote:
>
>> I would like to see some direct measurements related to recent power-saving
>> proposals, including the "disable rewinds" flag. Myself, I can redo
>> battery-life measurements on Intel-based laptops that my colleagues have,
>> and maybe compare dmix, PulseAudio and CRAS in terms of power consumption.
>
> The numbers I seem to remember seeing at the time were these IIRC:
>
>     http://linux-tipps.blogspot.co.uk/2011/04/power-performance-of-pulseaudio-alsa.html
>
> saying there was a 0.4W win (I think Arun had some similar numbers).

Thanks for the link. I have no reason to doubt these measurements. Note, 
however, that they are of the "pulseaudio vs pulseaudio" type, and give 
no insight into the structure of the win. By "structure", I mean the 
proportion of energy wasted due to the wakeup itself, in the kernel 
code, and in the pulseaudio code. IOW, they, technically, don't rule out 
the "pulseaudio is inefficient at low latencies, and that's pulseaudio's 
fault" possibility. That's why (and also because, on my hardware, the 
win with hw:0 and aplay is smaller) I want to do some cross-comparisons 
of various sound servers to the raw hw:0 device. It would also be nice 
to be able to see directly the effect of David's work on srbchannel.

-- 
Alexander E. Patrakov

Re: [REANNOUNCE] Audio Mini Summit 2015, 8th October, Dublin

[Alexander E. Patrakov]

14.07.2015 21:36, Alexander E. Patrakov wrote:
> 14.07.2015 21:17, Mark Brown wrote:
>> On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 09:04:30PM +0500, Alexander E. Patrakov wrote:
>>
>>> I would like to see some direct measurements related to recent
>>> power-saving
>>> proposals, including the "disable rewinds" flag. Myself, I can redo
>>> battery-life measurements on Intel-based laptops that my colleagues
>>> have,
>>> and maybe compare dmix, PulseAudio and CRAS in terms of power
>>> consumption.
>>
>> The numbers I seem to remember seeing at the time were these IIRC:
>>
>>
>> http://linux-tipps.blogspot.co.uk/2011/04/power-performance-of-pulseaudio-alsa.html
>>
>>
>> saying there was a 0.4W win (I think Arun had some similar numbers).
>
> Thanks for the link. I have no reason to doubt these measurements. Note,
> however, that they are of the "pulseaudio vs pulseaudio" type, and give
> no insight into the structure of the win.

Oops, sorry for misreading the blog post. It's actually "alsa vs 
pulseaudio vs high-latency pulseaudio", and does prove that, on the 
reporter's hardware, the win is not related to userspace inefficiency.

-- 
Alexander E. Patrakov

Re: [REANNOUNCE] Audio Mini Summit 2015, 8th October, Dublin

[Pierre-Louis Bossart]

On 7/14/15 11:04 AM, Alexander E. Patrakov wrote:
> 14.07.2015 20:03, Mark Brown wrote:
>> Like previous years, we're going to hold a meeting to discuss
>> lowlevel audio on Linux.  This will be held the day after ELC Europe on
>> 8th October at CCD (The Convention Centre) in Dublin.
>>
>> If you're interested please sign up in the attendee list:
>>
>> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bi-8GHsqlzt41FR20WiMuWILe_cZowFireVMBd-QM8Q/edit?usp=sharing
>>
>>
>> and please follow up to this mail with any topics you'd like to see
>> raised so we can start collecting them (probably another Google doc will
>> be forthcoming for them).
>
> I would like to see some direct measurements related to recent
> power-saving proposals, including the "disable rewinds" flag. Myself, I
> can redo battery-life measurements on Intel-based laptops that my
> colleagues have, and maybe compare dmix, PulseAudio and CRAS in terms of
> power consumption.
>
> Ideally, I would like to reevaluate the design decisions (namely, the
> need to keep the system responsive to new streams while keeping the
> average wakeup rate as low as possible, IMHO even to the point of
> "absurdly low") that led to the need to support rewinds (and the
> associated complexity) in the first place. Reminder: on my Sony VAIO
> VPC-Z23A4R laptop and hw:0 device, in an unrealistic test with the
> screen turned off, wi-fi turned off, and the SSDs put to sleep, going
> from 200 to 1 wakeup per second saved only 935 seconds of battery life
> out of 25742.

I had more success that you in my experiments a long time ago, but this 
really depends on what the rest of the system does.
You have a point though that we should talk about design decisions for 
userspace code. The current PulseAudio implementation lags behind the 
capabilities of newer devices with two or more outputs (low-latency, 
increased buffering and hardware/firmware mixing). This should really be 
a topic following the presentation of the HDAudio/Asoc restructuring 
that Vinod mentioned (i.e. how to change userspace code to support 
driver capabilities).
-Pierre

Re: [REANNOUNCE] Audio Mini Summit 2015, 8th October, Dublin

[Vinod Koul]

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On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 04:03:52PM +0100, Mark Brown wrote:
> Like previous years, we're going to hold a meeting to discuss
> lowlevel audio on Linux.  This will be held the day after ELC Europe on
> 8th October at CCD (The Convention Centre) in Dublin.
> 
> If you're interested please sign up in the attendee list:
> 
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bi-8GHsqlzt41FR20WiMuWILe_cZowFireVMBd-QM8Q/edit?usp=sharing
> 
> and please follow up to this mail with any topics you'd like to see
> raised so we can start collecting them (probably another Google doc will
> be forthcoming for them).
> 
> Previously suggested topics include:
> 
>  - Reducing kernel size for IoT applications
>  - ACPI simple-card
>  - Testing tools
I would like to have following added as well

- Recent & ongoing HDA restructuring. Hopefully by that time we should have
  all the pieces sorted out and shipping systems. So a good discussion and
  feedback...
- HDMI interfaces, maybe we can get someone from gfx side as well. Recently
  [1] we discussed additional interfaces to make things robust
- Topology.
- PCM core. What can we do to simplify this code which seems very scary :)

Also I have not seen much traction on this and last announcement, so I took the
liberty to CC attendees from last year

[1]: http://mailman.alsa-project.org/pipermail/alsa-devel/2015-July/095092.html

Thanks
-- 
~Vinod

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Re: [REANNOUNCE] Audio Mini Summit 2015, 8th October, Dublin

[Eric Laurent]

Hi,

Is registration to ELCE mandatory to attend the audio mini summit this year
or not?

Thanks.

Eric.


On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 10:07 AM, Vinod Koul <vinod.koul@intel.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 04:03:52PM +0100, Mark Brown wrote:
> > Like previous years, we're going to hold a meeting to discuss
> > lowlevel audio on Linux.  This will be held the day after ELC Europe on
> > 8th October at CCD (The Convention Centre) in Dublin.
> >
> > If you're interested please sign up in the attendee list:
> >
> >
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bi-8GHsqlzt41FR20WiMuWILe_cZowFireVMBd-QM8Q/edit?usp=sharing
> >
> > and please follow up to this mail with any topics you'd like to see
> > raised so we can start collecting them (probably another Google doc will
> > be forthcoming for them).
> >
> > Previously suggested topics include:
> >
> >  - Reducing kernel size for IoT applications
> >  - ACPI simple-card
> >  - Testing tools
> I would like to have following added as well
>
> - Recent & ongoing HDA restructuring. Hopefully by that time we should have
>   all the pieces sorted out and shipping systems. So a good discussion and
>   feedback...
> - HDMI interfaces, maybe we can get someone from gfx side as well. Recently
>   [1] we discussed additional interfaces to make things robust
> - Topology.
> - PCM core. What can we do to simplify this code which seems very scary :)
>
> Also I have not seen much traction on this and last announcement, so I
> took the
> liberty to CC attendees from last year
>
> [1]:
> http://mailman.alsa-project.org/pipermail/alsa-devel/2015-July/095092.html
>
> Thanks
> --
> ~Vinod
>

Re: [REANNOUNCE] Audio Mini Summit 2015, 8th October, Dublin

[Mark Brown]

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On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 02:35:07PM -0700, Eric Laurent wrote:

> Is registration to ELCE mandatory to attend the audio mini summit this year
> or not?

I believe so, yes - let me know if this is going to be an issue and I'll
see what we can do.

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Re: [REANNOUNCE] Audio Mini Summit 2015, 8th October, Dublin

[Eric Laurent]

OK.
Should be fine, I will be able to use one of google invites.

Thanks.


On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Mark Brown <broonie@kernel.org> wrote:

> On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 02:35:07PM -0700, Eric Laurent wrote:
>
> > Is registration to ELCE mandatory to attend the audio mini summit this
> year
> > or not?
>
> I believe so, yes - let me know if this is going to be an issue and I'll
> see what we can do.
>

Re: [REANNOUNCE] Audio Mini Summit 2015, 8th October, Dublin

[Bard Liao]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Brown [mailto:broonie@kernel.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2015 11:04 PM
> To: Takashi Iwai; Liam Girdwood; Jaroslav Kysela
> Cc: alsa-devel@alsa-project.org
> Subject: [REANNOUNCE] Audio Mini Summit 2015, 8th October, Dublin
> 
> Like previous years, we're going to hold a meeting to discuss lowlevel
> audio on Linux.  This will be held the day after ELC Europe on 8th
> October at CCD (The Convention Centre) in Dublin.
> 
> If you're interested please sign up in the attendee list:
> 
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bi-8GHsqlzt41FR20WiMuWILe_
> cZowFireVMBd-QM8Q/edit?usp=sharing
> 
> and please follow up to this mail with any topics you'd like to see raised so
> we can start collecting them (probably another Google doc will be
> forthcoming for them).
> 
> Previously suggested topics include:
> 
>  - Reducing kernel size for IoT applications
>  - ACPI simple-card
>  - Testing tools
> 

Could we also discuss the driver support for MIPI SoundWire ?
Is there any existing code in kernel using MIPI SoundWire?


> Thanks,
> Mark
> 
> ------Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.

Re: [REANNOUNCE] Audio Mini Summit 2015, 8th October, Dublin

[Pierre-Louis Bossart]

On 7/21/15 6:29 AM, Bard Liao wrote:
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Mark Brown [mailto:broonie@kernel.org]
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2015 11:04 PM
>> To: Takashi Iwai; Liam Girdwood; Jaroslav Kysela
>> Cc: alsa-devel@alsa-project.org
>> Subject: [REANNOUNCE] Audio Mini Summit 2015, 8th October, Dublin
>>
>> Like previous years, we're going to hold a meeting to discuss lowlevel
>> audio on Linux.  This will be held the day after ELC Europe on 8th
>> October at CCD (The Convention Centre) in Dublin.
>>
>> If you're interested please sign up in the attendee list:
>>
>> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bi-8GHsqlzt41FR20WiMuWILe_
>> cZowFireVMBd-QM8Q/edit?usp=sharing
>>
>> and please follow up to this mail with any topics you'd like to see raised so
>> we can start collecting them (probably another Google doc will be
>> forthcoming for them).
>>
>> Previously suggested topics include:
>>
>>   - Reducing kernel size for IoT applications
>>   - ACPI simple-card

I think we should also share findings on DeviceTree vs. ACPI support for 
machine drivers and subnodes.

>>   - Testing tools
>>
>
> Could we also discuss the driver support for MIPI SoundWire ?

Yes we should. This might require additional time or a dedicated session 
though.

> Is there any existing code in kernel using MIPI SoundWire?

Not yet, this is work-in-progress. Note that a list of device properties 
has already been defined and is available to MIPI contributors, it'll be 
released more widely at some point.

>
>> Thanks,
>> Mark
>>
>> ------Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
> _______________________________________________
> Alsa-devel mailing list
> Alsa-devel@alsa-project.org
> http://mailman.alsa-project.org/mailman/listinfo/alsa-devel
>

Re: [REANNOUNCE] Audio Mini Summit 2015, 8th October, Dublin

[Vinod Koul]

On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 06:05:15PM -0500, Pierre-Louis Bossart wrote:
> On 7/21/15 6:29 AM, Bard Liao wrote:
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Mark Brown [mailto:broonie@kernel.org]
> >>Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2015 11:04 PM
> >>To: Takashi Iwai; Liam Girdwood; Jaroslav Kysela
> >>Cc: alsa-devel@alsa-project.org
> >>Subject: [REANNOUNCE] Audio Mini Summit 2015, 8th October, Dublin
> >>
> >>Like previous years, we're going to hold a meeting to discuss lowlevel
> >>audio on Linux.  This will be held the day after ELC Europe on 8th
> >>October at CCD (The Convention Centre) in Dublin.
> >>
> >>If you're interested please sign up in the attendee list:
> >>
> >>https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bi-8GHsqlzt41FR20WiMuWILe_
> >>cZowFireVMBd-QM8Q/edit?usp=sharing
> >>
> >>and please follow up to this mail with any topics you'd like to see raised so
> >>we can start collecting them (probably another Google doc will be
> >>forthcoming for them).
> >>
> >>Previously suggested topics include:
> >>
> >>  - Reducing kernel size for IoT applications
> >>  - ACPI simple-card
> 
> I think we should also share findings on DeviceTree vs. ACPI support
> for machine drivers and subnodes.

I am planning to discuss two things in this space:
- One the NHLT table in BIOS
- Second my ongoing work on ACPI properties for machines, hopefully should be
  able to send patches before conference

-- 
~Vinod

Re: [REANNOUNCE] Audio Mini Summit 2015, 8th October, Dublin

[Arun Raghavan]

On 3 August 2015 at 08:45, Vinod Koul <vinod.koul@intel.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 06:05:15PM -0500, Pierre-Louis Bossart wrote:
>> On 7/21/15 6:29 AM, Bard Liao wrote:
>> >>-----Original Message-----
>> >>From: Mark Brown [mailto:broonie@kernel.org]
>> >>Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2015 11:04 PM
>> >>To: Takashi Iwai; Liam Girdwood; Jaroslav Kysela
>> >>Cc: alsa-devel@alsa-project.org
>> >>Subject: [REANNOUNCE] Audio Mini Summit 2015, 8th October, Dublin
>> >>
>> >>Like previous years, we're going to hold a meeting to discuss lowlevel
>> >>audio on Linux.  This will be held the day after ELC Europe on 8th
>> >>October at CCD (The Convention Centre) in Dublin.
>> >>
>> >>If you're interested please sign up in the attendee list:
>> >>
>> >>https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bi-8GHsqlzt41FR20WiMuWILe_
>> >>cZowFireVMBd-QM8Q/edit?usp=sharing
>> >>
>> >>and please follow up to this mail with any topics you'd like to see raised so
>> >>we can start collecting them (probably another Google doc will be
>> >>forthcoming for them).
>> >>
>> >>Previously suggested topics include:
>> >>
>> >>  - Reducing kernel size for IoT applications
>> >>  - ACPI simple-card
>>
>> I think we should also share findings on DeviceTree vs. ACPI support
>> for machine drivers and subnodes.
>
> I am planning to discuss two things in this space:
> - One the NHLT table in BIOS
> - Second my ongoing work on ACPI properties for machines, hopefully should be
>   able to send patches before conference

I have a a couple of things to add:

1. The BATCH flag, granularity, etc. again (this is really biting us
with USB devices since we're respecting it)

2. Some work I've been doing on configuration (not the consolidation
we were looking for at the end of last meeting, but something I should
be able to send a link to here in a week or two)

Cheers,
Arun

Re: [REANNOUNCE] Audio Mini Summit 2015, 8th October, Dublin

[Takashi Iwai]

On Tue, 22 Sep 2015 10:49:36 +0200,
Arun Raghavan wrote:
> 
> On 3 August 2015 at 08:45, Vinod Koul <vinod.koul@intel.com> wrote:
> > On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 06:05:15PM -0500, Pierre-Louis Bossart wrote:
> >> On 7/21/15 6:29 AM, Bard Liao wrote:
> >> >>-----Original Message-----
> >> >>From: Mark Brown [mailto:broonie@kernel.org]
> >> >>Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2015 11:04 PM
> >> >>To: Takashi Iwai; Liam Girdwood; Jaroslav Kysela
> >> >>Cc: alsa-devel@alsa-project.org
> >> >>Subject: [REANNOUNCE] Audio Mini Summit 2015, 8th October, Dublin
> >> >>
> >> >>Like previous years, we're going to hold a meeting to discuss lowlevel
> >> >>audio on Linux.  This will be held the day after ELC Europe on 8th
> >> >>October at CCD (The Convention Centre) in Dublin.
> >> >>
> >> >>If you're interested please sign up in the attendee list:
> >> >>
> >> >>https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bi-8GHsqlzt41FR20WiMuWILe_
> >> >>cZowFireVMBd-QM8Q/edit?usp=sharing
> >> >>
> >> >>and please follow up to this mail with any topics you'd like to see raised so
> >> >>we can start collecting them (probably another Google doc will be
> >> >>forthcoming for them).
> >> >>
> >> >>Previously suggested topics include:
> >> >>
> >> >>  - Reducing kernel size for IoT applications
> >> >>  - ACPI simple-card
> >>
> >> I think we should also share findings on DeviceTree vs. ACPI support
> >> for machine drivers and subnodes.
> >
> > I am planning to discuss two things in this space:
> > - One the NHLT table in BIOS
> > - Second my ongoing work on ACPI properties for machines, hopefully should be
> >   able to send patches before conference
> 
> I have a a couple of things to add:
> 
> 1. The BATCH flag, granularity, etc. again (this is really biting us
> with USB devices since we're respecting it)
> 
> 2. Some work I've been doing on configuration (not the consolidation
> we were looking for at the end of last meeting, but something I should
> be able to send a link to here in a week or two)

Mark, do you have a list of topics available on net, e.g. via google
doc?


Takashi

Re: [REANNOUNCE] Audio Mini Summit 2015, 8th October, Dublin

[Mark Brown]

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On Sat, Oct 03, 2015 at 06:13:26PM +0200, Takashi Iwai wrote:

> Mark, do you have a list of topics available on net, e.g. via google
> doc?

Not yet, though it's basically only a couple of e-mails to collate at
this point.

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Re: [REANNOUNCE] Audio Mini Summit 2015, 8th October, Dublin

[Mark Brown]

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On Sun, Oct 04, 2015 at 11:57:28PM +0100, Mark Brown wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 03, 2015 at 06:13:26PM +0200, Takashi Iwai wrote:

> > Mark, do you have a list of topics available on net, e.g. via google
> > doc?

> Not yet, though it's basically only a couple of e-mails to collate at
> this point.

I've just sent a mail for this.

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Re: [REANNOUNCE] Audio Mini Summit 2015, 8th October, Dublin

[Arun Raghavan]

Hi again, all,

On 22 September 2015 at 14:19, Arun Raghavan <arun@accosted.net> wrote:
> On 3 August 2015 at 08:45, Vinod Koul <vinod.koul@intel.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 06:05:15PM -0500, Pierre-Louis Bossart wrote:
>>> On 7/21/15 6:29 AM, Bard Liao wrote:
>>> >>-----Original Message-----
>>> >>From: Mark Brown [mailto:broonie@kernel.org]
>>> >>Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2015 11:04 PM
>>> >>To: Takashi Iwai; Liam Girdwood; Jaroslav Kysela
>>> >>Cc: alsa-devel@alsa-project.org
>>> >>Subject: [REANNOUNCE] Audio Mini Summit 2015, 8th October, Dublin
>>> >>
>>> >>Like previous years, we're going to hold a meeting to discuss lowlevel
>>> >>audio on Linux.  This will be held the day after ELC Europe on 8th
>>> >>October at CCD (The Convention Centre) in Dublin.
>>> >>
>>> >>If you're interested please sign up in the attendee list:
>>> >>
>>> >>https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bi-8GHsqlzt41FR20WiMuWILe_
>>> >>cZowFireVMBd-QM8Q/edit?usp=sharing
>>> >>
>>> >>and please follow up to this mail with any topics you'd like to see raised so
>>> >>we can start collecting them (probably another Google doc will be
>>> >>forthcoming for them).
>>> >>
>>> >>Previously suggested topics include:
>>> >>
>>> >>  - Reducing kernel size for IoT applications
>>> >>  - ACPI simple-card
>>>
>>> I think we should also share findings on DeviceTree vs. ACPI support
>>> for machine drivers and subnodes.
>>
>> I am planning to discuss two things in this space:
>> - One the NHLT table in BIOS
>> - Second my ongoing work on ACPI properties for machines, hopefully should be
>>   able to send patches before conference
>
> I have a a couple of things to add:
>
> 1. The BATCH flag, granularity, etc. again (this is really biting us
> with USB devices since we're respecting it)
>
> 2. Some work I've been doing on configuration (not the consolidation
> we were looking for at the end of last meeting, but something I should
> be able to send a link to here in a week or two)

I was hoping to get just a bit more done before sending this out, but
there's not much time left before the audio meetup. I've been working
on a tool to make it a bit easier to translate Android XML
configuration to UCM. It's up at:

  https://github.com/ford-prefect/xml2ucm

The idea is to take the mixer_paths.xml, write a bit of extra
configuration as a separate file describing devices, use cases, etc.
and then have UCM output from that. You can see some example
configuration for the Sony Xperia Z3 Compact (aries) at:

  https://github.com/ford-prefect/xml2ucm/blob/master/examples/aries-l-config.xml
  https://github.com/ford-prefect/xml2ucm/blob/master/examples/aries-l-mixer_paths.xml

That particular configuration works fine for HiFi. I was hoping to get
the voice call config also done by now, but it's been a bit uphill
since I'm working without any specs.

I'm happy to hear feedback on whether this is useful, what else you'd
like to see if it is, and anything else you might have comments on.

Cheers,
Arun

p.s.: Yes, it's in Haskell, sorry about the added pain there. I'm
planning on having this also available as a simple web service so you
don't have to build it to use it (the README should have accurate
documentation on how to build, though).

Re: [REANNOUNCE] Audio Mini Summit 2015, 8th October, Dublin

[Lars-Peter Clausen]

On 07/14/2015 05:03 PM, Mark Brown wrote:
> [...]
> 
> and please follow up to this mail with any topics you'd like to see
> raised so we can start collecting them (probably another Google doc will
> be forthcoming for them).

Full media controller integration for both ALSA and ASoC. How this can be
used to export topology information to userspace and how to for example
attach a specific volume control to a specific media controller entity. And
maybe also how to de-duplicate similar functionality between DAPM and media
controller.

Re: [REANNOUNCE] Audio Mini Summit 2015, 8th October, Dublin

[Vinod Koul]

On Sat, Aug 01, 2015 at 09:37:16AM +0200, Lars-Peter Clausen wrote:
> On 07/14/2015 05:03 PM, Mark Brown wrote:
> > [...]
> > 
> > and please follow up to this mail with any topics you'd like to see
> > raised so we can start collecting them (probably another Google doc will
> > be forthcoming for them).
> 
> Full media controller integration for both ALSA and ASoC. How this can be
> used to export topology information to userspace and how to for example
> attach a specific volume control to a specific media controller entity. And
> maybe also how to de-duplicate similar functionality between DAPM and media
> controller.
The recently merged topology core allows us to 'send' the complete topology
information for a component to kernel drivers.

So with this we now we have two additional choices:
- assuming all components use topology framework, we don't need to query, we
  use the topology information available in usermode. Some more support to
  parse topology binary installed and show as controls in alsa-lib might be
  required here
- do a reverse path, based on dapm and control info (driver will need to add
  code for linking the two) we add a new reverse API, which tells us the
  topology information from kernel

-- 
~Vinod

Re: [REANNOUNCE] Audio Mini Summit 2015, 8th October, Dublin

[Mark Brown]

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On Mon, Aug 03, 2015 at 08:51:28AM +0530, Vinod Koul wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 01, 2015 at 09:37:16AM +0200, Lars-Peter Clausen wrote:

> > Full media controller integration for both ALSA and ASoC. How this can be
> > used to export topology information to userspace and how to for example
> > attach a specific volume control to a specific media controller entity. And
> > maybe also how to de-duplicate similar functionality between DAPM and media
> > controller.

> The recently merged topology core allows us to 'send' the complete topology
> information for a component to kernel drivers.

> So with this we now we have two additional choices:
> - assuming all components use topology framework, we don't need to query, we
>   use the topology information available in usermode. Some more support to
>   parse topology binary installed and show as controls in alsa-lib might be
>   required here

That'd require us to move all the DAPM information for drivers out of
the kernel and into userspace which seems a bit worrying - it's going to
be harder for things that need events and I worry about the effect on
quality of implementation if people stop sending things to get reviewed.

> - do a reverse path, based on dapm and control info (driver will need to add
>   code for linking the two) we add a new reverse API, which tells us the
>   topology information from kernel

That's basically what the media controller API discussion has been.

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Re: [REANNOUNCE] Audio Mini Summit 2015, 8th October, Dublin

[Vinod Koul]

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On Tue, Aug 04, 2015 at 05:13:35PM +0100, Mark Brown wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 03, 2015 at 08:51:28AM +0530, Vinod Koul wrote:
> > On Sat, Aug 01, 2015 at 09:37:16AM +0200, Lars-Peter Clausen wrote:
> 
> > > Full media controller integration for both ALSA and ASoC. How this can be
> > > used to export topology information to userspace and how to for example
> > > attach a specific volume control to a specific media controller entity. And
> > > maybe also how to de-duplicate similar functionality between DAPM and media
> > > controller.
> 
> > The recently merged topology core allows us to 'send' the complete topology
> > information for a component to kernel drivers.
> 
> > So with this we now we have two additional choices:
> > - assuming all components use topology framework, we don't need to query, we
> >   use the topology information available in usermode. Some more support to
> >   parse topology binary installed and show as controls in alsa-lib might be
> >   required here
> 
> That'd require us to move all the DAPM information for drivers out of
> the kernel and into userspace which seems a bit worrying - it's going to
> be harder for things that need events and I worry about the effect on
> quality of implementation if people stop sending things to get reviewed.
Not for this option, for example in SKL.

kernel doesnt have toplogy information coded in, it is parsed and build from
topology binary which is built by alsa-lib. So if we add more alsa-lib APIs
to parse the installed binary we have good view of system without going to
kernel, we know complete graph and controls...

> > - do a reverse path, based on dapm and control info (driver will need to add
> >   code for linking the two) we add a new reverse API, which tells us the
> >   topology information from kernel
> 
> That's basically what the media controller API discussion has been.
Yes lets discuss more during the conf...

-- 
~Vinod

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Re: [REANNOUNCE] Audio Mini Summit 2015, 8th October, Dublin

[Mark Brown]

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On Wed, Aug 05, 2015 at 08:26:03AM +0530, Vinod Koul wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 04, 2015 at 05:13:35PM +0100, Mark Brown wrote:

> > That'd require us to move all the DAPM information for drivers out of
> > the kernel and into userspace which seems a bit worrying - it's going to
> > be harder for things that need events and I worry about the effect on
> > quality of implementation if people stop sending things to get reviewed.

> Not for this option, for example in SKL.

> kernel doesnt have toplogy information coded in, it is parsed and build from
> topology binary which is built by alsa-lib. So if we add more alsa-lib APIs
> to parse the installed binary we have good view of system without going to
> kernel, we know complete graph and controls...

That's a specific case where the topology definition is coming in with
the actual implementation.  For CODECs where things are in silicon
things are a bit different.

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Re: [REANNOUNCE] Audio Mini Summit 2015, 8th October, Dublin

[Pierre-Louis Bossart]

> Full media controller integration for both ALSA and ASoC. How this can be
> used to export topology information to userspace and how to for example
> attach a specific volume control to a specific media controller entity. And
> maybe also how to de-duplicate similar functionality between DAPM and media
> controller.

This is something I looked at, without much progress though beyond a set 
of initial patches to make use of the media controller API. There were 
two issues:
- one was to agree on a syntax/format for the (binary) topology 
information exposed by the kernel.
- the main issue was really how to link a user-visible volume slider to 
a specific or group of volume controls. A number of people have tried 
this before in other contexts and it's really hard to do based on 
topology information only.

But yes a good topic to re-discuss
-Pierre

Re: [REANNOUNCE] Audio Mini Summit 2015, 8th October, Dublin

[Mark Brown]

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On Sat, Aug 01, 2015 at 09:37:16AM +0200, Lars-Peter Clausen wrote:
> On 07/14/2015 05:03 PM, Mark Brown wrote:

> > and please follow up to this mail with any topics you'd like to see
> > raised so we can start collecting them (probably another Google doc will
> > be forthcoming for them).

> Full media controller integration for both ALSA and ASoC. How this can be
> used to export topology information to userspace and how to for example
> attach a specific volume control to a specific media controller entity. And
> maybe also how to de-duplicate similar functionality between DAPM and media
> controller.

We keep talking about this but it never goes anywhere.  I think everyone
agrees that in principal it's a good idea but nobody's actually taken
the next step and started working on it.  Do we think we're likely to
come to any new conclusions here?

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Re: [REANNOUNCE] Audio Mini Summit 2015, 8th October, Dublin

[Lars-Peter Clausen]

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On 08/04/2015 06:03 PM, Mark Brown wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 01, 2015 at 09:37:16AM +0200, Lars-Peter Clausen wrote:
>> On 07/14/2015 05:03 PM, Mark Brown wrote:
> 
>>> and please follow up to this mail with any topics you'd like to see
>>> raised so we can start collecting them (probably another Google doc will
>>> be forthcoming for them).
> 
>> Full media controller integration for both ALSA and ASoC. How this can be
>> used to export topology information to userspace and how to for example
>> attach a specific volume control to a specific media controller entity. And
>> maybe also how to de-duplicate similar functionality between DAPM and media
>> controller.
> 
> We keep talking about this but it never goes anywhere.  I think everyone
> agrees that in principal it's a good idea but nobody's actually taken
> the next step and started working on it.  Do we think we're likely to
> come to any new conclusions here?

I hope to have some basic support ready by then.



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