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From: Cao jin <caoj.fnst@cn.fujitsu.com>
To: "Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@redhat.com>,
	Alex Williamson <alex.williamson@redhat.com>
Cc: izumi.taku@jp.fujitsu.com, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	kvm@vger.kernel.org, qemu-devel@nongnu.org
Subject: Re: vfio/pci: guest error recovery proposal
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2016 10:52:13 +0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <586328DD.3040203@cn.fujitsu.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20161216003520-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org>



On 12/16/2016 07:02 AM, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
> 
>>  1) We need to do the right thing for the guest, I don't think we
>>     should be presuming that different reset types are equivalent,
>>     leaving gaps where we expect the guest/host to do a reset and don't
>>     follow through on other reset requests, and we need to notify the
>>     guest immediately for the error.
> c>  2) We need to do the right thing for the host, that means we should
>>     not give the user the opportunity to leave a device in a state
>>     where we haven't at least performed a bus reset on link error (this
>>     may be our current state and if so we should fix it).
> 
> Ok so here is a concrete proposal for improving guest device error
> recovery (1).  This is not trying to fix current bugs for 2, but
> also does not lock us into not fixing them.
> 
> I'll write up proposal for (2) but I feel we can't properly
> fix host without fixing (1) first and without breaking compatibility.
> 
> Background:
> 
> non-fatal errors:
> 
> - These errors are due to data link problems.
>   The problem is that a transaction was lost, so driver and device are
>   out of sync. Device reset is in theory enough to recover from these,
>   in practice some drivers might try to do link level reset instead.
> 
> 
> fatal errors:
> 
> - These errors are due to physical problems.
>   The problem is that a transaction was lost, so driver and device are
>   out of sync. Link reset might be necessary to recover from these,
>   sometimes device reset might be enough for very simple devices.
>   If a link above the device reports errors, device might have went away,
>   link reset is the only thing that might being it back.
> 
> current behaviour:
> 
> - vfio will always report that it recovered function from an error.
> - whether link reset will trigger depends on whether any other
>   function on the same link has a host driver that reports an error.
> - also, if there's a host driver that can't handle errors,
>   link reset will never trigger
> 
> 
> proposed enhancement:
> 
> 1- allow userspace to request reporting non fatal/fatal errors separately
> 2- report errors on monitor as events as well
> 3- forward correct error type to guest
> 4- set link error flag in userspace (this is optional, used for 5 below)
> 5- if guest requests link reset, and error flag is set,
>   stop vm (I hope we can distinguish this
>   from resets that happen on reboot here.
>   if yes we might not need error flag in 4 above)
> 

Hi,

I have a question about vm stop on fatal error.
Recently, When test my patches, I often saw fatal error(Malformed TLP
Status) happens, which disturbed my test. So I am wondering: why vm stop
is a better choice than qdev_unplug? Although we told user "Please
collect any data possible and then kill the guest", I still don't know
how to save any possible data. For example, if user is editing document,
vm_stop caused by a device fatal error will destroy user's effort.

-- 
Sincerely,
Cao jin
> 
> Results:
> The advantage of this is that we don't need to manage any state at all.
> Most drivers will handle non fatal errors by FLR and will recover fine.
> Drivers that attempt link reset will get vmstop which is not
> worse than what we have now.
> 
> I don't see how this can break any reasonable configuration
> that is not already broken, but we might want a flag
> to suppress aer reports to guest and just do vmstop
> unconditionally.
> Alternatively, management can pause vm itself when it sees the error.
> 
> 
> Pls remember to Cc qemu list on discussion, not just kvm.
> 

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Cao jin <caoj.fnst@cn.fujitsu.com>
To: "Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@redhat.com>,
	Alex Williamson <alex.williamson@redhat.com>
Cc: <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>, <izumi.taku@jp.fujitsu.com>,
	<qemu-devel@nongnu.org>, <kvm@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: vfio/pci: guest error recovery proposal
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2016 10:52:13 +0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <586328DD.3040203@cn.fujitsu.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20161216003520-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org>



On 12/16/2016 07:02 AM, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
> 
>>  1) We need to do the right thing for the guest, I don't think we
>>     should be presuming that different reset types are equivalent,
>>     leaving gaps where we expect the guest/host to do a reset and don't
>>     follow through on other reset requests, and we need to notify the
>>     guest immediately for the error.
> c>  2) We need to do the right thing for the host, that means we should
>>     not give the user the opportunity to leave a device in a state
>>     where we haven't at least performed a bus reset on link error (this
>>     may be our current state and if so we should fix it).
> 
> Ok so here is a concrete proposal for improving guest device error
> recovery (1).  This is not trying to fix current bugs for 2, but
> also does not lock us into not fixing them.
> 
> I'll write up proposal for (2) but I feel we can't properly
> fix host without fixing (1) first and without breaking compatibility.
> 
> Background:
> 
> non-fatal errors:
> 
> - These errors are due to data link problems.
>   The problem is that a transaction was lost, so driver and device are
>   out of sync. Device reset is in theory enough to recover from these,
>   in practice some drivers might try to do link level reset instead.
> 
> 
> fatal errors:
> 
> - These errors are due to physical problems.
>   The problem is that a transaction was lost, so driver and device are
>   out of sync. Link reset might be necessary to recover from these,
>   sometimes device reset might be enough for very simple devices.
>   If a link above the device reports errors, device might have went away,
>   link reset is the only thing that might being it back.
> 
> current behaviour:
> 
> - vfio will always report that it recovered function from an error.
> - whether link reset will trigger depends on whether any other
>   function on the same link has a host driver that reports an error.
> - also, if there's a host driver that can't handle errors,
>   link reset will never trigger
> 
> 
> proposed enhancement:
> 
> 1- allow userspace to request reporting non fatal/fatal errors separately
> 2- report errors on monitor as events as well
> 3- forward correct error type to guest
> 4- set link error flag in userspace (this is optional, used for 5 below)
> 5- if guest requests link reset, and error flag is set,
>   stop vm (I hope we can distinguish this
>   from resets that happen on reboot here.
>   if yes we might not need error flag in 4 above)
> 

Hi,

I have a question about vm stop on fatal error.
Recently, When test my patches, I often saw fatal error(Malformed TLP
Status) happens, which disturbed my test. So I am wondering: why vm stop
is a better choice than qdev_unplug? Although we told user "Please
collect any data possible and then kill the guest", I still don't know
how to save any possible data. For example, if user is editing document,
vm_stop caused by a device fatal error will destroy user's effort.

-- 
Sincerely,
Cao jin
> 
> Results:
> The advantage of this is that we don't need to manage any state at all.
> Most drivers will handle non fatal errors by FLR and will recover fine.
> Drivers that attempt link reset will get vmstop which is not
> worse than what we have now.
> 
> I don't see how this can break any reasonable configuration
> that is not already broken, but we might want a flag
> to suppress aer reports to guest and just do vmstop
> unconditionally.
> Alternatively, management can pause vm itself when it sees the error.
> 
> 
> Pls remember to Cc qemu list on discussion, not just kvm.
> 

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Cao jin <caoj.fnst@cn.fujitsu.com>
To: "Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@redhat.com>,
	Alex Williamson <alex.williamson@redhat.com>
Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, izumi.taku@jp.fujitsu.com,
	qemu-devel@nongnu.org, kvm@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [Qemu-devel] vfio/pci: guest error recovery proposal
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2016 10:52:13 +0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <586328DD.3040203@cn.fujitsu.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20161216003520-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org>



On 12/16/2016 07:02 AM, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
> 
>>  1) We need to do the right thing for the guest, I don't think we
>>     should be presuming that different reset types are equivalent,
>>     leaving gaps where we expect the guest/host to do a reset and don't
>>     follow through on other reset requests, and we need to notify the
>>     guest immediately for the error.
> c>  2) We need to do the right thing for the host, that means we should
>>     not give the user the opportunity to leave a device in a state
>>     where we haven't at least performed a bus reset on link error (this
>>     may be our current state and if so we should fix it).
> 
> Ok so here is a concrete proposal for improving guest device error
> recovery (1).  This is not trying to fix current bugs for 2, but
> also does not lock us into not fixing them.
> 
> I'll write up proposal for (2) but I feel we can't properly
> fix host without fixing (1) first and without breaking compatibility.
> 
> Background:
> 
> non-fatal errors:
> 
> - These errors are due to data link problems.
>   The problem is that a transaction was lost, so driver and device are
>   out of sync. Device reset is in theory enough to recover from these,
>   in practice some drivers might try to do link level reset instead.
> 
> 
> fatal errors:
> 
> - These errors are due to physical problems.
>   The problem is that a transaction was lost, so driver and device are
>   out of sync. Link reset might be necessary to recover from these,
>   sometimes device reset might be enough for very simple devices.
>   If a link above the device reports errors, device might have went away,
>   link reset is the only thing that might being it back.
> 
> current behaviour:
> 
> - vfio will always report that it recovered function from an error.
> - whether link reset will trigger depends on whether any other
>   function on the same link has a host driver that reports an error.
> - also, if there's a host driver that can't handle errors,
>   link reset will never trigger
> 
> 
> proposed enhancement:
> 
> 1- allow userspace to request reporting non fatal/fatal errors separately
> 2- report errors on monitor as events as well
> 3- forward correct error type to guest
> 4- set link error flag in userspace (this is optional, used for 5 below)
> 5- if guest requests link reset, and error flag is set,
>   stop vm (I hope we can distinguish this
>   from resets that happen on reboot here.
>   if yes we might not need error flag in 4 above)
> 

Hi,

I have a question about vm stop on fatal error.
Recently, When test my patches, I often saw fatal error(Malformed TLP
Status) happens, which disturbed my test. So I am wondering: why vm stop
is a better choice than qdev_unplug? Although we told user "Please
collect any data possible and then kill the guest", I still don't know
how to save any possible data. For example, if user is editing document,
vm_stop caused by a device fatal error will destroy user's effort.

-- 
Sincerely,
Cao jin
> 
> Results:
> The advantage of this is that we don't need to manage any state at all.
> Most drivers will handle non fatal errors by FLR and will recover fine.
> Drivers that attempt link reset will get vmstop which is not
> worse than what we have now.
> 
> I don't see how this can break any reasonable configuration
> that is not already broken, but we might want a flag
> to suppress aer reports to guest and just do vmstop
> unconditionally.
> Alternatively, management can pause vm itself when it sees the error.
> 
> 
> Pls remember to Cc qemu list on discussion, not just kvm.
> 

  parent reply	other threads:[~2016-12-28  2:52 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 10+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2016-12-15 23:02 vfio/pci: guest error recovery proposal Michael S. Tsirkin
2016-12-15 23:02 ` [Qemu-devel] " Michael S. Tsirkin
2016-12-15 23:37 ` vfio/pci: host " Michael S. Tsirkin
2016-12-15 23:37   ` [Qemu-devel] " Michael S. Tsirkin
2016-12-15 23:37   ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2016-12-28  2:52 ` Cao jin [this message]
2016-12-28  2:52   ` [Qemu-devel] vfio/pci: guest " Cao jin
2016-12-28  2:52   ` Cao jin
2017-01-09 22:50   ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2017-01-09 22:50     ` [Qemu-devel] " Michael S. Tsirkin

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