x86_64 EFI support for grub2 ?

x86_64 EFI support for grub2 ?

[Bean]

Hi,

I just wonder if anybody is working on x86_64 EFI support ? If none,
I'd like to add it soon, as it's essential for grub2 to work with
Apple's 64-bit Intel Mac.

BTW, I notice that grub-mkimage for efi convert elf to efi internally,
how about use the gnu-efi tool chain, this could make it more portable
between ia32 and x86_64.

-- 
Bean

Re: x86_64 EFI support for grub2 ?

[Isaac Dupree]

Bean wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I just wonder if anybody is working on x86_64 EFI support ? If none,
> I'd like to add it soon, as it's essential for grub2 to work with
> Apple's 64-bit Intel Mac.

not me, but I'll help you test it, as I have one of those machines 
(currently I'm using a nearly-a-year-old CVS version of grub2 in Apple's 
emulated BIOS mode, rather than using the EFI support which didn't work 
for me at the time).
Is it essential -- or does building an x86 EFI binary work just as well?
(oh, since I'm running a 32-bit Linux on my 64-bit machine right now, 
I'm not sure if I'll actually be a useful tester?)

> BTW, I notice that grub-mkimage for efi convert elf to efi internally,
> how about use the gnu-efi tool chain, this could make it more portable
> between ia32 and x86_64.

Is its license sufficiently compatible?  Is it maintained sufficiently 
(or else, can we take on some of the maintainership burden?)

-Isaac

Re: x86_64 EFI support for grub2 ?

[Bean]

On Sun, May 25, 2008 at 11:48 PM, Isaac Dupree
<id@isaac.cedarswampstudios.org> wrote:
> Bean wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I just wonder if anybody is working on x86_64 EFI support ? If none,
>> I'd like to add it soon, as it's essential for grub2 to work with
>> Apple's 64-bit Intel Mac.
>
> not me, but I'll help you test it, as I have one of those machines
> (currently I'm using a nearly-a-year-old CVS version of grub2 in Apple's
> emulated BIOS mode, rather than using the EFI support which didn't work for
> me at the time).
> Is it essential -- or does building an x86 EFI binary work just as well?
> (oh, since I'm running a 32-bit Linux on my 64-bit machine right now, I'm
> not sure if I'll actually be a useful tester?)

I have tried the old ia32 image created by grub-mkimage, it doesn't
work, neither does the old refit (<0.10). New refit create fat image
containing both ia32 and x86_64, it works, but don't know how
compatible it is in non Apple firmware. I also write a pure x86_64
sample, it works as well.

>
>> BTW, I notice that grub-mkimage for efi convert elf to efi internally,
>> how about use the gnu-efi tool chain, this could make it more portable
>> between ia32 and x86_64.
>
> Is its license sufficiently compatible?  Is it maintained sufficiently (or
> else, can we take on some of the maintainership burden?)

I'm no expert on license, but it's a shared library, we only need to
use its interface, I guess this should be ok.

-- 
Bean

Re: x86_64 EFI support for grub2 ?

[Bean]

On Sun, May 25, 2008 at 11:48 PM, Isaac Dupree
<id@isaac.cedarswampstudios.org> wrote:
> (oh, since I'm running a 32-bit Linux on my 64-bit machine right now, I'm
> not sure if I'll actually be a useful tester?)

BTW, it's really easy to test efi image with the latest refit. Just
install refit 0.11 in OS X, and it would be used as the default boot
manager. Then, copy an efi image to / or /efi/xxxx/ of any
fat/ext2/ext3/hfs+/reiserfs partition (remember to install the fs
module, though), and it show up automatically in the boot menu.

You can verify it with refit 0.9 which use ia32 image. Download the
binary package, extract refit.efi to the root directory, and it should
be in the menu. When you choose it, it would say unsupported image.

-- 
Bean

Re: x86_64 EFI support for grub2 ?

[Marco Gerards]

Hi,

Bean <bean123ch@gmail.com> writes:

> I just wonder if anybody is working on x86_64 EFI support ? If none,
> I'd like to add it soon, as it's essential for grub2 to work with
> Apple's 64-bit Intel Mac.
>
> BTW, I notice that grub-mkimage for efi convert elf to efi internally,
> how about use the gnu-efi tool chain, this could make it more portable
> between ia32 and x86_64.

Okuji made this choise.  I do not recall why, you look it up.  But I
assume he had a good reason for this.  Would it be hard to adopt his
work for x86_64?

--
Marco

Re: x86_64 EFI support for grub2 ?

[Isaac Dupree]

Bean wrote:
>>> BTW, I notice that grub-mkimage for efi convert elf to efi internally,
>>> how about use the gnu-efi tool chain, this could make it more portable
>>> between ia32 and x86_64.
>> Is its license sufficiently compatible?  Is it maintained sufficiently (or
>> else, can we take on some of the maintainership burden?)
> 
> I'm no expert on license, but it's a shared library, we only need to
> use its interface, I guess this should be ok.

if it's GPL version 2 (but not 3) then it's probably incompatible, for 
example, if it's shared library.

Re: x86_64 EFI support for grub2 ?

[Isaac Dupree]

Bean wrote:
> On Sun, May 25, 2008 at 11:48 PM, Isaac Dupree
> <id@isaac.cedarswampstudios.org> wrote:
>> (oh, since I'm running a 32-bit Linux on my 64-bit machine right now, I'm
>> not sure if I'll actually be a useful tester?)
> 
> BTW, it's really easy to test efi image with the latest refit. Just
> install refit 0.11 in OS X, and it would be used as the default boot
> manager. Then, copy an efi image to / or /efi/xxxx/ of any
> fat/ext2/ext3/hfs+/reiserfs partition (remember to install the fs
> module, though), and it show up automatically in the boot menu.
> 
> You can verify it with refit 0.9 which use ia32 image. Download the
> binary package, extract refit.efi to the root directory, and it should
> be in the menu. When you choose it, it would say unsupported image.

(refit 0.9 worked for me in OSX, I don't remember whether I'm using 0.9 
or 0.10 right now)

But I'm sure I was building an ia32 grub2, and refit quite happily 
loaded that image -- it was just was in grub2 "rescue mode" for that old 
efi grub2.

And I meant that if I had to compile anything grub2, I wasn't sure if a 
32bit Linux could make a 64bit grub efi image.. but if you can make the 
image, then no problem at all!

-Isaac

Re: x86_64 EFI support for grub2 ?

[Bean]

On Mon, May 26, 2008 at 9:25 PM, Isaac Dupree
<id@isaac.cedarswampstudios.org> wrote:
> Bean wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, May 25, 2008 at 11:48 PM, Isaac Dupree
>> <id@isaac.cedarswampstudios.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> (oh, since I'm running a 32-bit Linux on my 64-bit machine right now, I'm
>>> not sure if I'll actually be a useful tester?)
>>
>> BTW, it's really easy to test efi image with the latest refit. Just
>> install refit 0.11 in OS X, and it would be used as the default boot
>> manager. Then, copy an efi image to / or /efi/xxxx/ of any
>> fat/ext2/ext3/hfs+/reiserfs partition (remember to install the fs
>> module, though), and it show up automatically in the boot menu.
>>
>> You can verify it with refit 0.9 which use ia32 image. Download the
>> binary package, extract refit.efi to the root directory, and it should
>> be in the menu. When you choose it, it would say unsupported image.
>
> (refit 0.9 worked for me in OSX, I don't remember whether I'm using 0.9 or
> 0.10 right now)
>
> But I'm sure I was building an ia32 grub2, and refit quite happily loaded
> that image -- it was just was in grub2 "rescue mode" for that old efi grub2.

Oh, you're lucky, the ia32 image doesn't work for me. Perhaps apple
change the firmware for the new modals.

>
> And I meant that if I had to compile anything grub2, I wasn't sure if a
> 32bit Linux could make a 64bit grub efi image.. but if you can make the
> image, then no problem at all!

With the cross compilation tool, it's possible to create 64bit image
in 32bit environment. In debian, all you need to do is install the
grub-multilib package and use the -m64 compile option in gcc.

-- 
Bean

Re: x86_64 EFI support for grub2 ?

[Isaac Dupree]

Bean wrote:
>> And I meant that if I had to compile anything grub2, I wasn't sure if a
>> 32bit Linux could make a 64bit grub efi image.. but if you can make the
>> image, then no problem at all!
> 
> With the cross compilation tool, it's possible to create 64bit image
> in 32bit environment. In debian, all you need to do is install the
> grub-multilib package and use the -m64 compile option in gcc.

I'm using Ubuntu (the newest version, Hardy 8.04).  Perhaps you meant 
gcc-multilib?

-Isaac

Re: x86_64 EFI support for grub2 ?

[Bean]

On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 3:11 AM, Isaac Dupree
<id@isaac.cedarswampstudios.org> wrote:
> Bean wrote:
>>>
>>> And I meant that if I had to compile anything grub2, I wasn't sure if a
>>> 32bit Linux could make a 64bit grub efi image.. but if you can make the
>>> image, then no problem at all!
>>
>> With the cross compilation tool, it's possible to create 64bit image
>> in 32bit environment. In debian, all you need to do is install the
>> grub-multilib package and use the -m64 compile option in gcc.
>
> I'm using Ubuntu (the newest version, Hardy 8.04).  Perhaps you meant
> gcc-multilib?

Oh yep, some typo.

BTW, you can check out the firmware info in "About rEFIt" icon in the
refit boot menu. Here is my info:

EFI Revision 1.10
Platform: x86_64 (64 bit)
Firmware: Apple 1.10

I guess your firmware is 32-bit, even though the cpu is 64-bit.

-- 
Bean

Re: x86_64 EFI support for grub2 ?

[Isaac Dupree]

Bean wrote:
> BTW, you can check out the firmware info in "About rEFIt" icon in the
> refit boot menu. Here is my info:
> 
> EFI Revision 1.10
> Platform: x86_64 (64 bit)
> Firmware: Apple 1.10
> 
> I guess your firmware is 32-bit, even though the cpu is 64-bit.

Dunno.  All my rEFIt says about itself of substance in that "About 
rEFIt" is that it's version 0.9.  Is yours one of those newer ("Santa 
Rosa") MacBooks that require at least refit 0.10? (I think it's because 
those firmwares require 64-bit EFI image)

[rEFIt] "Version 0.10 (June 14, 2007):
     * Supports the new “Santa Rosa” generation of MacBook Pro models.
     * All binaries built as “fat” 32-bit and 64-bit. (May not work on 
non-Apple EFI firmwares.)" http://refit.sourceforge.net/history.html

But we (GRUB) aren't refit -- we just need to know that we can't use 
that kind of multi-arch image to support all x86 and x86-64 EFI platforms.

-Isaac

Re: x86_64 EFI support for grub2 ?

[Bean]

On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 6:09 PM, Isaac Dupree
<id@isaac.cedarswampstudios.org> wrote:
> Bean wrote:
>>
>> BTW, you can check out the firmware info in "About rEFIt" icon in the
>> refit boot menu. Here is my info:
>>
>> EFI Revision 1.10
>> Platform: x86_64 (64 bit)
>> Firmware: Apple 1.10
>>
>> I guess your firmware is 32-bit, even though the cpu is 64-bit.
>
> Dunno.  All my rEFIt says about itself of substance in that "About rEFIt" is
> that it's version 0.9.  Is yours one of those newer ("Santa Rosa") MacBooks
> that require at least refit 0.10? (I think it's because those firmwares
> require 64-bit EFI image)

I use the latest version 0.11.

>
> [rEFIt] "Version 0.10 (June 14, 2007):
>    * Supports the new "Santa Rosa" generation of MacBook Pro models.
>    * All binaries built as "fat" 32-bit and 64-bit. (May not work on
> non-Apple EFI firmwares.)" http://refit.sourceforge.net/history.html

That must be it. I can't use refit < 0.10.

>
> But we (GRUB) aren't refit -- we just need to know that we can't use that
> kind of multi-arch image to support all x86 and x86-64 EFI platforms.

Yes, we can't create multi-arch image. We need to maintain them
seperately, i386-efi and x86_64-efi.

-- 
Bean

Re: x86_64 EFI support for grub2 ?

[Isaac Dupree]

Bean wrote:
>> [rEFIt] "Version 0.10 (June 14, 2007):
>>    * Supports the new "Santa Rosa" generation of MacBook Pro models.
>>    * All binaries built as "fat" 32-bit and 64-bit. (May not work on
>> non-Apple EFI firmwares.)" http://refit.sourceforge.net/history.html
> 
> That must be it. I can't use refit < 0.10.

hmm. in which case, I wonder, it may only be possible for me to test 
32-bits EFI images -- but we'll see.  That could still be a useful thing 
to be able to test.

>> But we (GRUB) aren't refit -- we just need to know that we can't use that
>> kind of multi-arch image to support all x86 and x86-64 EFI platforms.
> 
> Yes, we can't create multi-arch image. We need to maintain them
> seperately, i386-efi and x86_64-efi.

are we unable to (because refit uses the MacOS X toolchain (?) and we 
don't), or we just have no interest in doing so (because installers can 
have the smarts of figuring out which arch the firmware expects for the 
image?)
?

-Isaac

Re: x86_64 EFI support for grub2 ?

[Bean]

On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 8:06 PM, Isaac Dupree
<id@isaac.cedarswampstudios.org> wrote:
> are we unable to (because refit uses the MacOS X toolchain (?) and we
> don't), or we just have no interest in doing so (because installers can have
> the smarts of figuring out which arch the firmware expects for the image?)
> ?

It's possible to create multiple arch image, but it requires some
extra work. We need to compile i386-efi and x86_64-efi separately,
then use a tool to merge them. This can't be done in a single step.

-- 
Bean

Re: x86_64 EFI support for grub2 ?

[Robert Millan]

On Mon, May 26, 2008 at 09:21:50AM -0400, Isaac Dupree wrote:
> Bean wrote:
> >>>BTW, I notice that grub-mkimage for efi convert elf to efi internally,
> >>>how about use the gnu-efi tool chain, this could make it more portable
> >>>between ia32 and x86_64.
> >>Is its license sufficiently compatible?  Is it maintained sufficiently (or
> >>else, can we take on some of the maintainership burden?)
> >
> >I'm no expert on license, but it's a shared library, we only need to
> >use its interface, I guess this should be ok.
> 
> if it's GPL version 2 (but not 3) then it's probably incompatible, for 
> example, if it's shared library.

gnu-efi is licensed under GPL 2 or later.  There's no problem linking GRUB
with it.

Thourhg, if it's just a binary file converter license compatibility would
probably not be required anyway.

-- 
Robert Millan

<GPLv2> I know my rights; I want my phone call!
<DRM> What good is a phone call… if you are unable to speak?
(as seen on /.)

Re: x86_64 EFI support for grub2 ?

[Robert Millan]

On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 08:23:09PM +0800, Bean wrote:
> 
> It's possible to create multiple arch image, but it requires some
> extra work. We need to compile i386-efi and x86_64-efi separately,
> then use a tool to merge them. This can't be done in a single step.

Why not just drop the -m32 and always build "native" images?  So if you
build the i386-efi target on i386, you get a 32-bit image and if you build
it on x86_64 you get a 64-bit one?

-- 
Robert Millan

<GPLv2> I know my rights; I want my phone call!
<DRM> What good is a phone call… if you are unable to speak?
(as seen on /.)

Re: x86_64 EFI support for grub2 ?

[Robert Millan]

On Sun, May 25, 2008 at 07:32:27PM +0800, Bean wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I just wonder if anybody is working on x86_64 EFI support ? If none,
> I'd like to add it soon, as it's essential for grub2 to work with
> Apple's 64-bit Intel Mac.
> 
> BTW, I notice that grub-mkimage for efi convert elf to efi internally,
> how about use the gnu-efi tool chain, this could make it more portable
> between ia32 and x86_64.

How about ia64?  Does the situation improve there?  Tristan Gingold (CCed)
was in the process of merging his ia64 port of GRUB, and toolchain support
for ia64-PE was one of the stumbling blocks.

-- 
Robert Millan

<GPLv2> I know my rights; I want my phone call!
<DRM> What good is a phone call… if you are unable to speak?
(as seen on /.)

Re: x86_64 EFI support for grub2 ?

[Bean]

On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 10:20 PM, Robert Millan <rmh@aybabtu.com> wrote:
> gnu-efi is licensed under GPL 2 or later.  There's no problem linking GRUB
> with it.

> Thourhg, if it's just a binary file converter license compatibility would
> probably not be required anyway.

It's nice to know, althought I don't need it anymore. gnu-efi is quite
simple, I can use the part I need in grub directly.

> Why not just drop the -m32 and always build "native" images?  So if you
> build the i386-efi target on i386, you get a 32-bit image and if you build
> it on x86_64 you get a 64-bit one?

There is situation where we need to build 32-bit image in 64-bit
machine, or vice verse. So it's better to make it separated.

> How about ia64?  Does the situation improve there?  Tristan Gingold (CCed)
> was in the process of merging his ia64 port of GRUB, and toolchain support
> for ia64-PE was one of the stumbling blocks.

I manage to hack grub-mkimage to convert from elf64 to PE32+, I think
it's similar in ia64. The tricky part is relocation, other is just
quite straight forward.

-- 
Bean

Re: x86_64 EFI support for grub2 ?

[Vesa Jääskeläinen]

Robert Millan wrote:
> On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 08:23:09PM +0800, Bean wrote:
>> It's possible to create multiple arch image, but it requires some
>> extra work. We need to compile i386-efi and x86_64-efi separately,
>> then use a tool to merge them. This can't be done in a single step.
> 
> Why not just drop the -m32 and always build "native" images?  So if you
> build the i386-efi target on i386, you get a 32-bit image and if you build
> it on x86_64 you get a 64-bit one?

No. Consider build farm.

Re: x86_64 EFI support for grub2 ?

[Isaac Dupree]

Robert Millan wrote:
> On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 08:23:09PM +0800, Bean wrote:
>> It's possible to create multiple arch image, but it requires some
>> extra work. We need to compile i386-efi and x86_64-efi separately,
>> then use a tool to merge them. This can't be done in a single step.
> 
> Why not just drop the -m32 and always build "native" images?  So if you
> build the i386-efi target on i386, you get a 32-bit image and if you build
> it on x86_64 you get a 64-bit one?

take the MacBook.  There are different versions, let's call them (A), 
the original MacBook, 32-bit CPU; (B), mine, 64-bit CPU; and (C), 
Bean's, 64-bit CPU.

A and B require 32-bit EFI image. (actually, B might accept both 32 and 
64 bits images, I'm not sure)
C requires 64-bit EFI image.

I can run a 32-bit distro and linux-kernel on any of them -- A, B or C. 
  I can run a 64-bit distro on B or C.

Basically, neither CPU nor system arch tells you what kind of EFI image 
is "native".  There must be some way to find out what kind of image *is* 
native -- but I have no idea what it is.

-Isaac