All of lore.kernel.org
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: daw@mozart.cs.berkeley.edu (David Wagner)
To: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: /dev/random in 2.4.6
Date: 21 Aug 2001 18:24:44 GMT	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <9lu91c$n5v$3@abraham.cs.berkeley.edu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108210957060.13373-100000@waste.org> <2348622871.998419449@[10.132.112.53]>

Alex Bligh - linux-kernel  wrote:
>If we assume SHA-1 was
>not breakable, then /dev/urandom in a ZERO ENTROPY environment would
>give the the same value on a reboot of your machine as a simultaneous
>reboot of a hacker's machine. /dev/random would block (indefinitely)
>under these conditions. So /dev/urandom and /dev/random are
>both dysfunctional in this circumstance (one spits out a predictable
>number, one blocks), but differently dysfunctional, and
>/dev/random's behaviour is better.

Yup.  Fortunately, the countermeasure is simple: Your init script
should contain something like
  dd count=16 ibs=1 if=/dev/random of=/dev/urandom
This fixes the problem.  So this is arguably a user-level issue, not
a kernel issue.

>Similarly, if entropy disappears later on, then using /dev/urandom
>eventually  provides you with information about the state of the pool,
>though as the pool is SHA-1 hashed, it's a difficult attack to exploit.

No, it's not just difficult, it is completely infeasible under
current knowledge.

>So let's use Occam's razor and assume the attacker could have an SHA-1
>exploit,

No, let's not.  If the attacker has a SHA-1 exploit, then all your
SSL and IPSEC and other implementations are insecure, and they are
probably the only reason you're using /dev/random anyway.

Instead, let's assume SHA-1 is good, since it probably is, and since
you have to assume this anyway for the rest of your system.

  reply	other threads:[~2001-08-21 18:28 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 59+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2001-08-15 15:07 /dev/random in 2.4.6 Steve Hill
2001-08-15 15:21 ` Richard B. Johnson
2001-08-15 15:27   ` Steve Hill
2001-08-15 15:42     ` Richard B. Johnson
2001-08-15 16:29       ` Tim Walberg
2001-08-15 17:13     ` Andreas Dilger
2001-08-16  8:37       ` Steve Hill
2001-08-16 19:11         ` Andreas Dilger
2001-08-16 19:35           ` Alex Bligh - linux-kernel
2001-08-16 20:30             ` Andreas Dilger
2001-08-17  0:49           ` Robert Love
2001-08-17  1:05             ` Robert Love
2001-08-19 17:29             ` David Wagner
2001-08-17 21:18       ` Theodore Tso
2001-08-17 22:05         ` David Schwartz
2001-08-19 15:13           ` Theodore Tso
2001-08-19 15:33             ` Rob Radez
2001-08-19 17:32             ` David Wagner
2001-08-19 23:32             ` Oliver Xymoron
2001-08-20  7:40               ` Helge Hafting
2001-08-20 14:01                 ` Oliver Xymoron
2001-08-20 13:37               ` Alex Bligh - linux-kernel
2001-08-20 14:12                 ` Oliver Xymoron
2001-08-20 14:40                   ` Alex Bligh - linux-kernel
2001-08-20 14:55                     ` Chris Friesen
2001-08-20 15:22                       ` Oliver Xymoron
2001-08-20 15:25                       ` Doug McNaught
2001-08-20 15:42                         ` Chris Friesen
2001-08-21 10:03                           ` Steve Hill
2001-08-21 18:14                             ` David Wagner
2001-08-20 16:01                       ` David Wagner
2001-08-20 19:30                       ` Gérard Roudier
2001-08-20 15:07                     ` Oliver Xymoron
2001-08-21  8:33                       ` Alex Bligh - linux-kernel
2001-08-21 16:13                         ` Oliver Xymoron
2001-08-21 17:44                           ` Alex Bligh - linux-kernel
2001-08-21 18:24                             ` David Wagner [this message]
2001-08-21 18:49                               ` Alex Bligh - linux-kernel
2001-08-21 19:04                             ` Oliver Xymoron
2001-08-21 19:20                               ` Alex Bligh - linux-kernel
2001-08-21 21:44                                 ` Robert Love
2001-08-21 18:19                         ` David Wagner
2001-08-20 16:00                     ` David Wagner
2001-08-21  1:20                       ` Theodore Tso
2001-08-21  8:39                       ` Alex Bligh - linux-kernel
2001-08-21 10:46                         ` Marco Colombo
2001-08-21 12:40                           ` Alex Bligh - linux-kernel
2001-08-21 17:06                           ` cfs+linux-kernel
2001-08-21 17:48                             ` Alex Bligh - linux-kernel
2001-08-21 18:27                           ` David Wagner
2001-08-21 18:25                         ` David Wagner
2001-08-20 22:55                     ` D. Stimits
2001-08-21  1:06                       ` David Schwartz
2001-08-19 17:31         ` David Wagner
2001-08-19 17:27     ` David Wagner
2001-08-15 19:25 ` Alex Bligh - linux-kernel
2001-08-15 20:55   ` Robert Love
2001-08-15 21:27     ` Alex Bligh - linux-kernel
2001-08-16  8:55   ` Steve Hill

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to='9lu91c$n5v$3@abraham.cs.berkeley.edu' \
    --to=daw@mozart.cs.berkeley.edu \
    --cc=linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is an external index of several public inboxes,
see mirroring instructions on how to clone and mirror
all data and code used by this external index.