newsgroup of all mailing lists ?

newsgroup of all mailing lists ?

[jones]

dear all

I would like to know which kind people turn the mailing list into a
newsgroup ?

this would enable me to read at my leisure and not have my inbox overflow.
I am connected to NTL (UK) the same as I believe Mr. A Cox, but I can not
find a working newsgroup the NTL administrator has asked me for details and
I am afraid I don't know (hence this mail).

can someone give me some advice ?

regards

john jones

p.s. I am not subscribed to the list so can you CC me or the list whichever
is appropriate 

p.p.s. I am interested in other lists such as linux-mips and not just the
core linux M.L.

Re: newsgroup of all mailing lists ?

[Joel Jaeggli]

the group linux.kernel which is a unidirectional mail-news gateway (as it
should be) from anti-phl.bofh.it appears to be working currently...

also fa.linux.kernel appears to be working as well gatewayed by ifi.uio.no

here's the header from your messaged gatewayed by that host to my
newserver:

Path:

platform.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!
	129.240.148.23!uio.no!nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist
Newsgroups: fa.linux.kernel
Return-Path: <linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org>
User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022
Original-Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 19:40:33 +0100
Original-Message-ID: <B7D7DFB1.8013%little.jones.family@ntlworld.com>
Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org
Precedence: bulk
X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Organization: Internet mailing list
Lines: 27
Xref: platform.uoregon.edu fa.linux.kernel:30840
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 18:42:50 +0000
From: jones <little.jones.family@ntlworld.com>
To: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: newsgroup of all mailing lists ?
Message-Id: <fa.mppi6qv.1900tjl@ifi.uio.no>



joelja


On Wed, 26 Sep 2001, jones wrote:

> dear all
>
> I would like to know which kind people turn the mailing list into a
> newsgroup ?
>
> this would enable me to read at my leisure and not have my inbox overflow.
> I am connected to NTL (UK) the same as I believe Mr. A Cox, but I can not
> find a working newsgroup the NTL administrator has asked me for details and
> I am afraid I don't know (hence this mail).
>
> can someone give me some advice ?
>
> regards
>
> john jones
>
> p.s. I am not subscribed to the list so can you CC me or the list whichever
> is appropriate
>
> p.p.s. I am interested in other lists such as linux-mips and not just the
> core linux M.L.
>
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
> Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/
>

-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joel Jaeggli				       joelja@darkwing.uoregon.edu
Academic User Services			     consult@gladstone.uoregon.edu
     PGP Key Fingerprint: 1DE9 8FCA 51FB 4195 B42A 9C32 A30D 121E
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is clear that the arm of criticism cannot replace the criticism of
arms.  Karl Marx -- Introduction to the critique of Hegel's Philosophy of
the right, 1843.

Re: newsgroup of all mailing lists ?

[jones]

dear Joel Jaeggli

thanks a lot that exactly what I want !
I presume these are not public so I will send these onto NTL
but I think that something in the U.K. would be better for them and claranet
even better 

again thanks for the useful reply

regards

john 


> From: Joel Jaeggli <joelja@darkwing.uoregon.edu>
> Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 11:54:20 -0700 (PDT)
> To: jones <little.jones.family@ntlworld.com>
> Cc: <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
> Subject: Re: newsgroup of all mailing lists ?
> 
> the group linux.kernel which is a unidirectional mail-news gateway (as it
> should be) from anti-phl.bofh.it appears to be working currently...
> 
> also fa.linux.kernel appears to be working as well gatewayed by ifi.uio.no
> 
> here's the header from your messaged gatewayed by that host to my
> newserver:
> 
> Path:
> 
> platform.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!
> 129.240.148.23!uio.no!nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist
> Newsgroups: fa.linux.kernel
> Return-Path: <linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org>
> User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022
> Original-Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 19:40:33 +0100
> Original-Message-ID: <B7D7DFB1.8013%little.jones.family@ntlworld.com>
> Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org
> Precedence: bulk
> X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
> Organization: Internet mailing list
> Lines: 27
> Xref: platform.uoregon.edu fa.linux.kernel:30840
> Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 18:42:50 +0000
> From: jones <little.jones.family@ntlworld.com>
> To: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
> Subject: newsgroup of all mailing lists ?
> Message-Id: <fa.mppi6qv.1900tjl@ifi.uio.no>
> 
> 
> 
> joelja
> 
> 
> On Wed, 26 Sep 2001, jones wrote:
> 
>> dear all
>> 
>> I would like to know which kind people turn the mailing list into a
>> newsgroup ?
>> 
>> this would enable me to read at my leisure and not have my inbox overflow.
>> I am connected to NTL (UK) the same as I believe Mr. A Cox, but I can not
>> find a working newsgroup the NTL administrator has asked me for details and
>> I am afraid I don't know (hence this mail).
>> 
>> can someone give me some advice ?
>> 
>> regards
>> 
>> john jones
>> 
>> p.s. I am not subscribed to the list so can you CC me or the list whichever
>> is appropriate
>> 
>> p.p.s. I am interested in other lists such as linux-mips and not just the
>> core linux M.L.
>> 
>> -
>> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
>> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
>> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
>> Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/
>> 
> 
> -- 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Joel Jaeggli                       joelja@darkwing.uoregon.edu
> Academic User Services                 consult@gladstone.uoregon.edu
> PGP Key Fingerprint: 1DE9 8FCA 51FB 4195 B42A 9C32 A30D 121E
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> It is clear that the arm of criticism cannot replace the criticism of
> arms.  Karl Marx -- Introduction to the critique of Hegel's Philosophy of
> the right, 1843.
> 
> 

Re: newsgroup of all mailing lists ?

[Wayne Whitney]

In mailing-lists.linux-kernel, Joel Jaeggli wrote:

> the group linux.kernel which is a unidirectional mail-news gateway
> (as it should be) from anti-phl.bofh.it appears to be working
> currently...  
>
> also fa.linux.kernel appears to be working as well gatewayed by
> ifi.uio.no

Anyone know a gateway based in the US?

Cheers, Wayne

Re: newsgroup of all mailing lists ?

[Miquel van Smoorenburg]

In article <200109261935.f8QJZIk01204@adsl-209-76-109-63.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net>,
Wayne Whitney  <whitney@math.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>In mailing-lists.linux-kernel, Joel Jaeggli wrote:
>
>> the group linux.kernel which is a unidirectional mail-news gateway
>> (as it should be) from anti-phl.bofh.it appears to be working
>> currently...  
>>
>> also fa.linux.kernel appears to be working as well gatewayed by
>> ifi.uio.no
>
>Anyone know a gateway based in the US?

Just build your own. Install INN and some mail2news package,
for example the one from ftp://ftp.cistron.nl/pub/people/miquels/software/
cistron-m2n-1.38.tar.gz

Mike.
-- 
"I think...I think it's in my basement. Let me go upstairs and check."
	-- M.C. Escher (1898-1972)

Re: newsgroup of all mailing lists ?

[Marco d'Itri]

On Sep 26, Wayne Whitney <whitney@math.berkeley.edu> wrote:

 >> the group linux.kernel which is a unidirectional mail-news gateway
 >> (as it should be) from anti-phl.bofh.it appears to be working
 >> currently...  

 >Anyone know a gateway based in the US?
The linux.* hierarchy is supposed to be global, if your upstream does
not carry it I can provide feeds (not to leaf/small nodes, please).
FAQ: http://www.linux.it/~md/linux-faq

Maybe this should be added to the lkml FAQ.

-- 
ciao,
Marco

Re: newsgroup of all mailing lists ?

[Matti Aarnio]

On Wed, Sep 26, 2001 at 07:40:33PM +0100, jones wrote:
> dear all
> 
> I would like to know which kind people turn the mailing list into a
> newsgroup ?

   There are several Issues with this.

   - News system uses  Message-ID  header content to detect when
     a message has already gone thru the system, and when not.
     That is, the Message-ID MUST BE UNIQUE for the message to
     be stored into the message spool.

   - User posting to multiple lists (e.g.  linux-kernel, linux-net
     for an example pair) MAY get sent out in single SMTP transfer
     all the way to vger.kernel.org ( except when the user's system
     uses braindead systems splitting things in transfer - like is
     the habit of qmail ...).   The message WILL get split into
     multiple deliveries when it goes via Majordomo to each separate
     destination list.   Both messages have SAME  Message-ID value.
     (The Message-ID is supposed to be generated by the posting
      user client.)

   - Having any arbitrary   email->news  gateway now trying to feed
     those two separate messages to news will result in random
     success/failure order (depending of various latencies).

   - Things are worse, there are lots of these gw:s around to feed
     lists to news.  Those same news servers also often leak the groups
     into the global net, and may poison your local message-id database,
     and hence the local copy feed to spool might fail.
     ( Again timing and propagation delays affect the thing.. )

   - Things get even more worse; some want to have bi-directional
     gateway in between the email and the news.  Those are full
     nightmares in broad daylight...


  It is not trivial.

  We ( postmaster@vger.kernel.org ) don't recommend making bidirectional
  gateways -- one mistake there, and the system causes duplication of
  messages at the list it is linked with.   When we detect that mistake,
  the usual court-martial is swift, and feed from VGER to the GW is
  removed instantly.

  I think these loop problems were one of the reasons why one of us
  (DaveM) strongly opposes list<->news gateways.  I am somewhat less
  in opposition, and my thinking is that the only way we can have
  reliable (hah!) list<->news gw is by running it centralized at VGER.
  Modern VGER has muscle for it, but don't expect it to happen any
  time soon.

  There were other problems too -- completely clueless people asking
  clueless questions at  linux-kernel  group.   Where cluefull place
  for most of those would have been  linux-newbie ...

  We try to keep some decent Signal to Noise ratio here.


  Using a email->news gw script, and keeping the destination group
  in local area (local spool) will work usually.  Creating brand new
  Message-ID:s at email->news injection in form which consists of
  e.g. local list-specific prefix catenated with original message-id
  string.


  I will attempt to schedule posting this text into vger's web for
  the curious, plus add sample  email->news  injector doing this
  message-id conversion.


> this would enable me to read at my leisure and not have my inbox overflow.
> I am connected to NTL (UK) the same as I believe Mr. A Cox, but I can not
> find a working newsgroup the NTL administrator has asked me for details and
> I am afraid I don't know (hence this mail).
> 
> can someone give me some advice ?
> 
> regards
> 
> john jones
> 
> p.s. I am not subscribed to the list so can you CC me or the list whichever
> is appropriate 
> 
> p.p.s. I am interested in other lists such as linux-mips and not just the
> core linux M.L.


/Matti Aarnio

Re: newsgroup of all mailing lists ?

[jones]

dear Matti Aarnio

I was aware of some of the problems with email<->news and thought it iky.
so its interesting to see the innards of the reason why. what I wanted was a
one way sort of thing I did not want to post just read.

I am sure that many people would like to see the mailing list in newsgroup
form (again I emphasize reading not writing) so maybe creating a central
news server for ISP's would be a good idea, keeping the server for just
ISP's to mirror and only be one way, I think would save some bandwidth maybe
?

again I don't really have a place to point the NTL people
(and I suspect there is no real official one but any decent one way, UK
based, server would do for me)

regards

john jones


> From:     Matti Aarnio <matti.aarnio@zmailer.org>
> Date:     Thu, 27 Sep 2001 01:35:22 +0300
> To:     jones <little.jones.family@ntlworld.com>
> Cc:     linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
> Subject: Re: newsgroup of all mailing lists ?
> 
> On Wed, Sep 26, 2001 at 07:40:33PM +0100, jones wrote:
>> dear all
>> 
>> I would like to know which kind people turn the mailing list into a
>> newsgroup ?
> 
> There are several Issues with this.
> 
> - News system uses  Message-ID  header content to detect when
> a message has already gone thru the system, and when not.
> That is, the Message-ID MUST BE UNIQUE for the message to
> be stored into the message spool.
> 
> - User posting to multiple lists (e.g.  linux-kernel, linux-net
> for an example pair) MAY get sent out in single SMTP transfer
> all the way to vger.kernel.org ( except when the user's system
> uses braindead systems splitting things in transfer - like is
> the habit of qmail ...).   The message WILL get split into
> multiple deliveries when it goes via Majordomo to each separate
> destination list.   Both messages have SAME  Message-ID value.
> (The Message-ID is supposed to be generated by the posting
> user client.)
> 
> - Having any arbitrary   email->news  gateway now trying to feed
> those two separate messages to news will result in random
> success/failure order (depending of various latencies).
> 
> - Things are worse, there are lots of these gw:s around to feed
> lists to news.  Those same news servers also often leak the groups
> into the global net, and may poison your local message-id database,
> and hence the local copy feed to spool might fail.
> ( Again timing and propagation delays affect the thing.. )
> 
> - Things get even more worse; some want to have bi-directional
> gateway in between the email and the news.  Those are full
> nightmares in broad daylight...
> 
> 
> It is not trivial.
> 
> We ( postmaster@vger.kernel.org ) don't recommend making bidirectional
> gateways -- one mistake there, and the system causes duplication of
> messages at the list it is linked with.   When we detect that mistake,
> the usual court-martial is swift, and feed from VGER to the GW is
> removed instantly.
> 
> I think these loop problems were one of the reasons why one of us
> (DaveM) strongly opposes list<->news gateways.  I am somewhat less
> in opposition, and my thinking is that the only way we can have
> reliable (hah!) list<->news gw is by running it centralized at VGER.
> Modern VGER has muscle for it, but don't expect it to happen any
> time soon.
> 
> There were other problems too -- completely clueless people asking
> clueless questions at  linux-kernel  group.   Where cluefull place
> for most of those would have been  linux-newbie ...
> 
> We try to keep some decent Signal to Noise ratio here.
> 
> 
> Using a email->news gw script, and keeping the destination group
> in local area (local spool) will work usually.  Creating brand new
> Message-ID:s at email->news injection in form which consists of
> e.g. local list-specific prefix catenated with original message-id
> string.
> 
> 
> I will attempt to schedule posting this text into vger's web for
> the curious, plus add sample  email->news  injector doing this
> message-id conversion.
> 
> 
>> this would enable me to read at my leisure and not have my inbox overflow.
>> I am connected to NTL (UK) the same as I believe Mr. A Cox, but I can not
>> find a working newsgroup the NTL administrator has asked me for details and
>> I am afraid I don't know (hence this mail).
>> 
>> can someone give me some advice ?
>> 
>> regards
>> 
>> john jones
>> 
>> p.s. I am not subscribed to the list so can you CC me or the list whichever
>> is appropriate 
>> 
>> p.p.s. I am interested in other lists such as linux-mips and not just the
>> core linux M.L.
> 
> 
> /Matti Aarnio

Re: newsgroup of all mailing lists ?

[H. Peter Anvin]

Followup to:  <20010927013522.I11046@mea-ext.zmailer.org>
By author:    Matti Aarnio <matti.aarnio@zmailer.org>
In newsgroup: linux.dev.kernel
> 
>   It is not trivial.
> 
>   We ( postmaster@vger.kernel.org ) don't recommend making bidirectional
>   gateways -- one mistake there, and the system causes duplication of
>   messages at the list it is linked with.   When we detect that mistake,
>   the usual court-martial is swift, and feed from VGER to the GW is
>   removed instantly.
> 
>   I think these loop problems were one of the reasons why one of us
>   (DaveM) strongly opposes list<->news gateways.  I am somewhat less
>   in opposition, and my thinking is that the only way we can have
>   reliable (hah!) list<->news gw is by running it centralized at VGER.
>   Modern VGER has muscle for it, but don't expect it to happen any
>   time soon.
> 

I actually had such a centralized gateway ran at one time.  It's still
running locally at Transmeta.

The only sane way to do this is in a centralized fashion, distributed
outbound via the standard news mechanisms.

	-hpa
-- 
<hpa@transmeta.com> at work, <hpa@zytor.com> in private!
"Unix gives you enough rope to shoot yourself in the foot."
http://www.zytor.com/~hpa/puzzle.txt	<amsp@zytor.com>

Re: newsgroup of all mailing lists ?

[jones]

hi 

thanks for the advice
but thats not really what I want to do
I was kind of looking for servers to point administrators of news servers to
use 

regards

john jones

> From: Mathieu Chouquet-Stringer <mchouque@e-steel.com>
> Date: 26 Sep 2001 14:58:00 -0400
> To: little.jones.family@ntlworld.com (jones)
> Subject: Re: newsgroup of all mailing lists ?
> 
> 
> Hi!
> 
> I did that in my company: I have a Linux box running inn. The box fetchs
> the mails using fetchmail and I have a procmail rule to send messages from
> lkml to the newsserver (using mail2news). It's pretty cool: you only have
> to read a newsgroup...
> 
> If you need more technical detais, let me know!
> 
> Regards, Mathieu.
> 
> little.jones.family@ntlworld.com (jones) writes:
> 
>> dear all
>> 
>> I would like to know which kind people turn the mailing list into a
>> newsgroup ?
>> 
>> this would enable me to read at my leisure and not have my inbox overflow.
>> I am connected to NTL (UK) the same as I believe Mr. A Cox, but I can not
>> find a working newsgroup the NTL administrator has asked me for details and
>> I am afraid I don't know (hence this mail).
>> 
>> can someone give me some advice ?
>> 
>> regards
>> 
>> john jones
>> 
>> p.s. I am not subscribed to the list so can you CC me or the list whichever
>> is appropriate 
>> 
>> p.p.s. I am interested in other lists such as linux-mips and not just the
>> core linux M.L.
> 
> -- 
> Mathieu Chouquet-Stringer              E-Mail : mchouque@e-steel.com
> Learning French is trivial: the word for horse is cheval, and
> everything else follows in the same way.
> -- Alan J. Perlis