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From: Bodo Eggert <7eggert@gmx.de>
To: Linas Vepstas <linas@austin.ibm.com>,
	Jan-Bernd Themann <ossthema@de.ibm.com>,
	netdev <netdev@vger.kernel.org>, Thomas Klein <tklein@de.ibm.com>,
	Jan-Bernd Themann <themann@de.ibm.com>,
	linux-kernel <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-ppc <linuxppc-dev@ozlabs.org>,
	Christoph Raisch <raisch@de.ibm.com>,
	Marcus Eder <meder@de.ibm.com>,
	Stefan Roscher <stefan.roscher@de.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: RFC: issues concerning the next NAPI interface
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 21:04:56 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <E1IOeSm-0000bm-Jo@be1.lrz> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 8VKwj-8ke-27@gated-at.bofh.it

Linas Vepstas <linas@austin.ibm.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 24, 2007 at 03:59:16PM +0200, Jan-Bernd Themann wrote:

>> 3) On modern systems the incoming packets are processed very fast. Especially
>> on SMP systems when we use multiple queues we process only a few packets
>> per napi poll cycle. So NAPI does not work very well here and the interrupt
>> rate is still high.
> 
> I saw this too, on a system that is "modern" but not terribly fast, and
> only slightly (2-way) smp. (the spidernet)
> 
> I experimented wih various solutions, none were terribly exciting.  The
> thing that killed all of them was a crazy test case that someone sprung on
> me:  They had written a worst-case network ping-pong app: send one
> packet, wait for reply, send one packet, etc.
> 
> If I waited (indefinitely) for a second packet to show up, the test case
> completely stalled (since no second packet would ever arrive).  And if I
> introduced a timer to wait for a second packet, then I just increased
> the latency in the response to the first packet, and this was noticed,
> and folks complained.

Possible solution / possible brainfart:

Introduce a timer, but don't start to use it to combine packets unless you
receive n packets within the timeframe. If you receive less than m packets
within one timeframe, stop using the timer. The system should now have a
decent response time when the network is idle, and when the network is
busy, nobody will complain about the latency.-)
-- 
Funny quotes:
22. When everything's going your way, you're in the wrong lane and and going
    the wrong way.
Friß, Spammer: rsRxhvmk@CaR.7eggert.dyndns.org m@z3T.7eggert.dyndns.org

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Bodo Eggert <7eggert@gmx.de>
To: Linas Vepstas <linas@austin.ibm.com>,
	Jan-Bernd Themann <ossthema@de.ibm.com>,
	netdev <netdev@vger.kernel.org>, Thomas Klein <tklein@de.ibm.com>,
	Jan-Bernd Themann <themann@de.ibm.co
Subject: Re: RFC: issues concerning the next NAPI interface
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 21:04:56 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <E1IOeSm-0000bm-Jo@be1.lrz> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 8VKwj-8ke-27@gated-at.bofh.it

Linas Vepstas <linas@austin.ibm.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 24, 2007 at 03:59:16PM +0200, Jan-Bernd Themann wrote:

>> 3) On modern systems the incoming packets are processed very fast. Especially
>> on SMP systems when we use multiple queues we process only a few packets
>> per napi poll cycle. So NAPI does not work very well here and the interrupt
>> rate is still high.
> 
> I saw this too, on a system that is "modern" but not terribly fast, and
> only slightly (2-way) smp. (the spidernet)
> 
> I experimented wih various solutions, none were terribly exciting.  The
> thing that killed all of them was a crazy test case that someone sprung on
> me:  They had written a worst-case network ping-pong app: send one
> packet, wait for reply, send one packet, etc.
> 
> If I waited (indefinitely) for a second packet to show up, the test case
> completely stalled (since no second packet would ever arrive).  And if I
> introduced a timer to wait for a second packet, then I just increased
> the latency in the response to the first packet, and this was noticed,
> and folks complained.

Possible solution / possible brainfart:

Introduce a timer, but don't start to use it to combine packets unless you
receive n packets within the timeframe. If you receive less than m packets
within one timeframe, stop using the timer. The system should now have a
decent response time when the network is idle, and when the network is
busy, nobody will complain about the latency.-)
-- 
Funny quotes:
22. When everything's going your way, you're in the wrong lane and and going
    the wrong way.
Friß, Spammer: rsRxhvmk@CaR.7eggert.dyndns.org m@z3T.7eggert.dyndns.org

       reply	other threads:[~2007-08-24 19:10 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 94+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <8VHRR-45R-17@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found] ` <8VKwj-8ke-27@gated-at.bofh.it>
2007-08-24 19:04   ` Bodo Eggert [this message]
2007-08-24 19:04     ` RFC: issues concerning the next NAPI interface Bodo Eggert
2007-08-24 20:42     ` Linas Vepstas
2007-08-24 20:42       ` Linas Vepstas
2007-08-24 21:11       ` Jan-Bernd Themann
2007-08-24 21:11         ` Jan-Bernd Themann
2007-08-24 21:35         ` Linas Vepstas
2007-08-24 21:35           ` Linas Vepstas
     [not found]   ` <E1IOeSm-0000bm-Jo__24045.532072387$1187982363$gmane$org@be1.lrz>
2007-08-24 20:24     ` Stephen Hemminger
2007-08-25  2:10 Mitchell Erblich
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2007-08-24 13:59 Jan-Bernd Themann
2007-08-24 13:59 ` Jan-Bernd Themann
2007-08-24 15:37 ` akepner
2007-08-24 15:37   ` akepner
2007-08-24 15:47   ` Jan-Bernd Themann
2007-08-24 15:47     ` Jan-Bernd Themann
2007-08-24 15:52     ` Stephen Hemminger
2007-08-24 15:52       ` Stephen Hemminger
2007-08-24 16:50       ` David Stevens
2007-08-24 16:50         ` David Stevens
2007-08-24 21:44         ` David Miller
2007-08-24 21:44           ` David Miller
2007-08-24 21:51           ` Linas Vepstas
2007-08-24 21:51             ` Linas Vepstas
2007-08-24 16:51       ` Linas Vepstas
2007-08-24 16:51         ` Linas Vepstas
2007-08-24 17:07         ` Rick Jones
2007-08-24 17:07           ` Rick Jones
2007-08-24 17:45         ` Shirley Ma
2007-08-24 17:45           ` Shirley Ma
2007-08-24 17:16       ` James Chapman
2007-08-24 17:16         ` James Chapman
2007-08-24 18:11         ` Jan-Bernd Themann
2007-08-24 18:11           ` Jan-Bernd Themann
2007-08-24 21:47         ` David Miller
2007-08-24 21:47           ` David Miller
2007-08-24 22:06           ` akepner
2007-08-24 22:06             ` akepner
2007-08-26 19:36           ` James Chapman
2007-08-26 19:36             ` James Chapman
2007-08-27  1:58             ` David Miller
2007-08-27  1:58               ` David Miller
2007-08-27  9:47               ` Jan-Bernd Themann
2007-08-27  9:47                 ` Jan-Bernd Themann
2007-08-27 20:37                 ` David Miller
2007-08-27 20:37                   ` David Miller
2007-08-28 11:19                   ` Jan-Bernd Themann
2007-08-28 11:19                     ` Jan-Bernd Themann
2007-08-28 20:21                     ` David Miller
2007-08-28 20:21                       ` David Miller
2007-08-29  7:10                       ` Jan-Bernd Themann
2007-08-29  7:10                         ` Jan-Bernd Themann
2007-08-29  8:15                         ` James Chapman
2007-08-29  8:15                           ` James Chapman
2007-08-29  8:43                           ` Jan-Bernd Themann
2007-08-29  8:43                             ` Jan-Bernd Themann
2007-08-29  8:29                         ` David Miller
2007-08-29  8:29                           ` David Miller
2007-08-29  8:31                           ` Jan-Bernd Themann
2007-08-29  8:31                             ` Jan-Bernd Themann
2007-08-27 15:51               ` James Chapman
2007-08-27 15:51                 ` James Chapman
2007-08-27 16:02                 ` Jan-Bernd Themann
2007-08-27 16:02                   ` Jan-Bernd Themann
2007-08-27 17:05                   ` James Chapman
2007-08-27 17:05                     ` James Chapman
2007-08-27 21:02                 ` David Miller
2007-08-27 21:02                   ` David Miller
2007-08-27 21:41                   ` James Chapman
2007-08-27 21:41                     ` James Chapman
2007-08-27 21:56                     ` David Miller
2007-08-27 21:56                       ` David Miller
2007-08-28  9:22                       ` James Chapman
2007-08-28  9:22                         ` James Chapman
2007-08-28 11:48                         ` Jan-Bernd Themann
2007-08-28 11:48                           ` Jan-Bernd Themann
2007-08-28 12:16                           ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-08-28 12:16                             ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-08-28 14:55                           ` James Chapman
2007-08-28 14:55                             ` James Chapman
2007-08-28 11:21                   ` Jan-Bernd Themann
2007-08-28 11:21                     ` Jan-Bernd Themann
2007-08-28 20:25                     ` David Miller
2007-08-28 20:25                       ` David Miller
2007-08-28 20:27                     ` David Miller
2007-08-28 20:27                       ` David Miller
2007-08-24 16:45 ` Linas Vepstas
2007-08-24 16:45   ` Linas Vepstas
2007-08-24 21:43   ` David Miller
2007-08-24 21:43     ` David Miller
2007-08-24 21:32 ` David Miller
2007-08-24 21:32   ` David Miller
2007-08-24 21:37 ` David Miller
2007-08-24 21:37   ` David Miller

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