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From: Tejun Heo <tj-DgEjT+Ai2ygdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org>
To: "Michal Koutný" <mkoutny-IBi9RG/b67k@public.gmane.org>
Cc: Vipin Sharma <vipinsh-hpIqsD4AKlfQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>,
	rdunlap-wEGCiKHe2LqWVfeAwA7xHQ@public.gmane.org,
	thomas.lendacky-5C7GfCeVMHo@public.gmane.org,
	brijesh.singh-5C7GfCeVMHo@public.gmane.org,
	jon.grimm-5C7GfCeVMHo@public.gmane.org,
	eric.vantassell-5C7GfCeVMHo@public.gmane.org,
	pbonzini-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org,
	hannes-druUgvl0LCNAfugRpC6u6w@public.gmane.org,
	frankja-tEXmvtCZX7AybS5Ee8rs3A@public.gmane.org,
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	corbet-T1hC0tSOHrs@public.gmane.org,
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	linux-kernel-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [Patch v3 0/2] cgroup: New misc cgroup controller
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2021 14:39:36 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <YEpx+HTd/S2EfJCe@slm.duckdns.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <YEpoS90X19Z2QOro@blackbook>

Hello,

On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 07:58:19PM +0100, Michal Koutný wrote:
> > Michal, as you've been reviewing the series, can you please take
> > another look and ack them if you don't find anything objectionable?
> Honestly, I'm still sitting on the fence whether this needs a new
> controller and whether the miscontroller (:-p) is a good approach in the
> long term [1].

Yeah, it's a bit of cop-out. My take is that the underlying hardware feature
isn't mature enough to have reasonable abstraction built on top of them.
Given time, maybe future iterations will get there or maybe it's a passing
fad and people will mostly forget about these.

In the meantime, keeping them out of cgroup is one direction, a relatively
high friction one but still viable. Or we can provide something of a halfway
house so that people who have immediate needs can still leverage the
existing infrastructure while controlling the amount of time, energy and
future lock-ins they take. So, that's misc controller.

I'm somewhat ambivalent but we've had multiple of these things popping up in
the past several years and containment seems to be a reasonable approach at
this point.

> [1] Currently, only one thing comes to my mind -- the delegation via
> cgroup.subtree_control. The miscontroller may add possibly further
> resources whose delegation granularity is bunched up under one entry.

Controller enabling and delegation in themselves aren't supposed to have
resource or security implications, so I don't think it's a practical
problem.

Thanks.

-- 
tejun

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Tejun Heo <tj@kernel.org>
To: "Michal Koutný" <mkoutny@suse.com>
Cc: Vipin Sharma <vipinsh@google.com>,
	rdunlap@infradead.org, thomas.lendacky@amd.com,
	brijesh.singh@amd.com, jon.grimm@amd.com,
	eric.vantassell@amd.com, pbonzini@redhat.com, hannes@cmpxchg.org,
	frankja@linux.ibm.com, borntraeger@de.ibm.com, corbet@lwn.net,
	seanjc@google.com, vkuznets@redhat.com, wanpengli@tencent.com,
	jmattson@google.com, joro@8bytes.org, tglx@linutronix.de,
	mingo@redhat.com, bp@alien8.de, hpa@zytor.com,
	gingell@google.com, rientjes@google.com, dionnaglaze@google.com,
	kvm@vger.kernel.org, x86@kernel.org, cgroups@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-doc@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [Patch v3 0/2] cgroup: New misc cgroup controller
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2021 14:39:36 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <YEpx+HTd/S2EfJCe@slm.duckdns.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <YEpoS90X19Z2QOro@blackbook>

Hello,

On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 07:58:19PM +0100, Michal Koutný wrote:
> > Michal, as you've been reviewing the series, can you please take
> > another look and ack them if you don't find anything objectionable?
> Honestly, I'm still sitting on the fence whether this needs a new
> controller and whether the miscontroller (:-p) is a good approach in the
> long term [1].

Yeah, it's a bit of cop-out. My take is that the underlying hardware feature
isn't mature enough to have reasonable abstraction built on top of them.
Given time, maybe future iterations will get there or maybe it's a passing
fad and people will mostly forget about these.

In the meantime, keeping them out of cgroup is one direction, a relatively
high friction one but still viable. Or we can provide something of a halfway
house so that people who have immediate needs can still leverage the
existing infrastructure while controlling the amount of time, energy and
future lock-ins they take. So, that's misc controller.

I'm somewhat ambivalent but we've had multiple of these things popping up in
the past several years and containment seems to be a reasonable approach at
this point.

> [1] Currently, only one thing comes to my mind -- the delegation via
> cgroup.subtree_control. The miscontroller may add possibly further
> resources whose delegation granularity is bunched up under one entry.

Controller enabling and delegation in themselves aren't supposed to have
resource or security implications, so I don't think it's a practical
problem.

Thanks.

-- 
tejun

  reply	other threads:[~2021-03-11 19:39 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 28+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-03-04 23:19 [Patch v3 0/2] cgroup: New misc cgroup controller Vipin Sharma
2021-03-04 23:19 ` [Patch v3 1/2] cgroup: sev: Add " Vipin Sharma
     [not found]   ` <20210304231946.2766648-2-vipinsh-hpIqsD4AKlfQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2021-03-11 18:59     ` Michal Koutný
2021-03-11 18:59       ` Michal Koutný
2021-03-12 19:07       ` Vipin Sharma
     [not found]         ` <YEu74hkEPEyvxC85-hpIqsD4AKlfQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2021-03-15 18:34           ` Michal Koutný
2021-03-15 18:34             ` Michal Koutný
2021-03-12 19:48       ` Vipin Sharma
2021-03-12 20:51         ` Sean Christopherson
     [not found]           ` <YEvUTatAjIoP7dPD-hpIqsD4AKlfQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2021-03-12 21:18             ` Tom Lendacky
2021-03-12 21:18               ` Tom Lendacky
2021-03-19 21:28     ` Jacob Pan
2021-03-19 21:28       ` Jacob Pan
2021-03-22 18:54       ` Vipin Sharma
     [not found]         ` <YFjn7wv/iMO4Isgz-hpIqsD4AKlfQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2021-03-24 16:17           ` Jacob Pan
2021-03-24 16:17             ` Jacob Pan
2021-03-24 22:09             ` Vipin Sharma
     [not found] ` <20210304231946.2766648-1-vipinsh-hpIqsD4AKlfQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2021-03-04 23:19   ` [Patch v3 2/2] cgroup: sev: Miscellaneous cgroup documentation Vipin Sharma
2021-03-04 23:19     ` Vipin Sharma
2021-03-07 12:48 ` [Patch v3 0/2] cgroup: New misc cgroup controller Tejun Heo
2021-03-11 18:58   ` Michal Koutný
2021-03-11 19:39     ` Tejun Heo [this message]
2021-03-11 19:39       ` Tejun Heo
2021-03-12 17:49     ` Vipin Sharma
2021-03-12 17:49       ` Vipin Sharma
     [not found]       ` <YEupplaAWU1i0G6B-hpIqsD4AKlfQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2021-03-15 19:10         ` Michal Koutný
2021-03-15 19:10           ` Michal Koutný
2021-03-22 18:24           ` Vipin Sharma

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