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* [ALSA - driver 0000349]: can't play MIDI through ALSA / MPU-401 but non-ALSA "midiplayer" to MIDI device works
@ 2004-06-29  5:58 noreply
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: noreply @ 2004-06-29  5:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: alsa-devel


The following bug has been SUBMITTED.
======================================================================
https://bugtrack.alsa-project.org/alsa-bug/bug_view_page.php?bug_id=0000349
======================================================================
Reported By:                amarsh04
Assigned To:                
======================================================================
Project:                    ALSA - driver
Bug ID:                     349
Category:                   ISA - sb16/sbawe
Reproducibility:            always
Severity:                   major
Priority:                   normal
Status:                     new
Distribution:               Debian
Kernel Version:             2.6.5-1 (problem also showed with 2.4.24)
======================================================================
Date Submitted:             06-29-2004 07:58 CEST
Last Modified:              06-29-2004 07:58 CEST
======================================================================
Summary:                    can't play MIDI through ALSA / MPU-401 but non-ALSA
"midiplayer" to MIDI device works
Description: 
With ISA SB16 PNP, aplaymidi -l reports:
Port    Client name                      Port name
 64:0    Sound Blaster 16 MIDI - Rawmidi  Sound Blaster 16 MIDI
 65:0    OPL3 FM synth                    OPL3 FM Port

Neither 
aplaymidi -p 64:0 myfile.mid
nor 
aplaymidi -p 65:0 myfile.mid 
work, but the non-ALSA "midiplayer" works playing directly to the MIDI
device:

playmidi -v -D0 myfile.mid


======================================================================

Bug History
Date Modified  Username       Field                    Change              
======================================================================
06-29-04 07:58 amarsh04       New Bug                                      
06-29-04 07:58 amarsh04       Distribution              => Debian          
06-29-04 07:58 amarsh04       Kernel Version            => 2.6.5-1 (problem also
showed with 2.4.24)
======================================================================




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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* [ALSA - driver 0000349]: can't play MIDI through ALSA / MPU-401 but non-ALSA "midiplayer" to MIDI device works
@ 2005-04-07 18:57 bugtrack
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: bugtrack @ 2005-04-07 18:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: alsa-devel


A NOTE has been added to this issue.
======================================================================
<https://bugtrack.alsa-project.org/alsa-bug/view.php?id=349> 
======================================================================
Reported By:                amarsh04
Assigned To:                
======================================================================
Project:                    ALSA - driver
Issue ID:                   349
Category:                   ISA - sb16/sbawe
Reproducibility:            always
Severity:                   major
Priority:                   normal
Status:                     new
Distribution:               Debian
Kernel Version:             2.6.5-1 (problem also showed with 2.4.24)
======================================================================
Date Submitted:             06-29-2004 07:58 CEST
Last Modified:              04-07-2005 20:57 CEST
======================================================================
Summary:                    can't play MIDI through ALSA / MPU-401 but non-ALSA
"midiplayer" to MIDI device works
Description: 
With ISA SB16 PNP, aplaymidi -l reports:
Port    Client name                      Port name
 64:0    Sound Blaster 16 MIDI - Rawmidi  Sound Blaster 16 MIDI
 65:0    OPL3 FM synth                    OPL3 FM Port

Neither 
aplaymidi -p 64:0 myfile.mid
nor 
aplaymidi -p 65:0 myfile.mid 
work, but the non-ALSA "midiplayer" works playing directly to the MIDI
device:

playmidi -v -D0 myfile.mid


======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------
 jdthood - 04-07-05 20:57 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Submitter: Have you ever made any progress on this issue?

Issue History
Date Modified  Username       Field                    Change              
======================================================================
06-29-04 07:58 amarsh04       New Issue                                    
06-29-04 07:58 amarsh04       Distribution              => Debian          
06-29-04 07:58 amarsh04       Kernel Version            => 2.6.5-1 (problem also
showed with 2.4.24)
04-07-05 20:57 jdthood        Note Added: 0004365                          
======================================================================




-------------------------------------------------------
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* [ALSA - driver 0000349]: can't play MIDI through ALSA / MPU-401 but non-ALSA "midiplayer" to MIDI device works
@ 2005-04-10  5:54 bugtrack
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: bugtrack @ 2005-04-10  5:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: alsa-devel


A NOTE has been added to this issue.
======================================================================
<https://bugtrack.alsa-project.org/alsa-bug/view.php?id=349> 
======================================================================
Reported By:                amarsh04
Assigned To:                
======================================================================
Project:                    ALSA - driver
Issue ID:                   349
Category:                   ISA - sb16/sbawe
Reproducibility:            always
Severity:                   major
Priority:                   normal
Status:                     new
Distribution:               Debian
Kernel Version:             2.6.5-1 (problem also showed with 2.4.24)
======================================================================
Date Submitted:             06-29-2004 07:58 CEST
Last Modified:              04-10-2005 07:54 CEST
======================================================================
Summary:                    can't play MIDI through ALSA / MPU-401 but non-ALSA
"midiplayer" to MIDI device works
Description: 
With ISA SB16 PNP, aplaymidi -l reports:
Port    Client name                      Port name
 64:0    Sound Blaster 16 MIDI - Rawmidi  Sound Blaster 16 MIDI
 65:0    OPL3 FM synth                    OPL3 FM Port

Neither 
aplaymidi -p 64:0 myfile.mid
nor 
aplaymidi -p 65:0 myfile.mid 
work, but the non-ALSA "midiplayer" works playing directly to the MIDI
device:

playmidi -v -D0 myfile.mid


======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------
 jdthood - 04-07-05 20:57 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Submitter: Have you ever made any progress on this issue?

----------------------------------------------------------------------
 amarsh04 - 04-10-05 07:54 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No progress unfortunately. In the meantime have updated to kernel 2.6.11
and found the alsa - udev incompatibility, so removed udev. My hardware
has been also updated, to Pentium 233MMX.

Is there any kind of diagnostic to tell if the MIDI data is actually being
received by the sound card?

Issue History
Date Modified  Username       Field                    Change              
======================================================================
06-29-04 07:58 amarsh04       New Issue                                    
06-29-04 07:58 amarsh04       Distribution              => Debian          
06-29-04 07:58 amarsh04       Kernel Version            => 2.6.5-1 (problem also
showed with 2.4.24)
04-07-05 20:57 jdthood        Note Added: 0004365                          
04-10-05 07:54 amarsh04       Note Added: 0004434                          
======================================================================




-------------------------------------------------------
SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide
Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users.
Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now.
http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=6595&alloc_id=14396&op=click

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* [ALSA - driver 0000349]: can't play MIDI through ALSA / MPU-401 but non-ALSA "midiplayer" to MIDI device works
@ 2005-04-10  7:53 bugtrack
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: bugtrack @ 2005-04-10  7:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: alsa-devel


The following issue has been ACKNOWLEDGED.
======================================================================
<https://bugtrack.alsa-project.org/alsa-bug/view.php?id=349> 
======================================================================
Reported By:                amarsh04
Assigned To:                
======================================================================
Project:                    ALSA - driver
Issue ID:                   349
Category:                   ISA - sb16/sbawe
Reproducibility:            always
Severity:                   major
Priority:                   normal
Status:                     acknowledged
Distribution:               Debian
Kernel Version:             2.6.5-1 (problem also showed with 2.4.24)
======================================================================
Date Submitted:             06-29-2004 07:58 CEST
Last Modified:              04-10-2005 09:53 CEST
======================================================================
Summary:                    can't play MIDI through ALSA / MPU-401 but non-ALSA
"midiplayer" to MIDI device works
Description: 
With ISA SB16 PNP, aplaymidi -l reports:
Port    Client name                      Port name
 64:0    Sound Blaster 16 MIDI - Rawmidi  Sound Blaster 16 MIDI
 65:0    OPL3 FM synth                    OPL3 FM Port

Neither 
aplaymidi -p 64:0 myfile.mid
nor 
aplaymidi -p 65:0 myfile.mid 
work, but the non-ALSA "midiplayer" works playing directly to the MIDI
device:

playmidi -v -D0 myfile.mid


======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------
 jdthood - 04-07-05 20:57 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Submitter: Have you ever made any progress on this issue?

----------------------------------------------------------------------
 amarsh04 - 04-10-05 07:54 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No progress unfortunately. In the meantime have updated to kernel 2.6.11
and found the alsa - udev incompatibility, so removed udev. My hardware
has been also updated, to Pentium 233MMX.

Is there any kind of diagnostic to tell if the MIDI data is actually being
received by the sound card?

Issue History
Date Modified  Username       Field                    Change              
======================================================================
06-29-04 07:58 amarsh04       New Issue                                    
06-29-04 07:58 amarsh04       Distribution              => Debian          
06-29-04 07:58 amarsh04       Kernel Version            => 2.6.5-1 (problem also
showed with 2.4.24)
04-07-05 20:57 jdthood        Note Added: 0004365                          
04-10-05 07:54 amarsh04       Note Added: 0004434                          
04-10-05 09:53 jdthood        Status                   new => acknowledged 
======================================================================




-------------------------------------------------------
SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide
Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users.
Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now.
http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=6595&alloc_id=14396&op=click

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* [ALSA - driver 0000349]: can't play MIDI through ALSA / MPU-401 but non-ALSA "midiplayer" to MIDI device works
@ 2005-04-12 14:38 bugtrack
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: bugtrack @ 2005-04-12 14:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: alsa-devel


A NOTE has been added to this issue.
======================================================================
<https://bugtrack.alsa-project.org/alsa-bug/view.php?id=349> 
======================================================================
Reported By:                amarsh04
Assigned To:                
======================================================================
Project:                    ALSA - driver
Issue ID:                   349
Category:                   ISA - sb16/sbawe
Reproducibility:            always
Severity:                   major
Priority:                   normal
Status:                     acknowledged
Distribution:               Debian
Kernel Version:             2.6.5-1 (problem also showed with 2.4.24)
======================================================================
Date Submitted:             06-29-2004 07:58 CEST
Last Modified:              04-12-2005 16:38 CEST
======================================================================
Summary:                    can't play MIDI through ALSA / MPU-401 but non-ALSA
"midiplayer" to MIDI device works
Description: 
With ISA SB16 PNP, aplaymidi -l reports:
Port    Client name                      Port name
 64:0    Sound Blaster 16 MIDI - Rawmidi  Sound Blaster 16 MIDI
 65:0    OPL3 FM synth                    OPL3 FM Port

Neither 
aplaymidi -p 64:0 myfile.mid
nor 
aplaymidi -p 65:0 myfile.mid 
work, but the non-ALSA "midiplayer" works playing directly to the MIDI
device:

playmidi -v -D0 myfile.mid


======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------
 amarsh04 - 04-10-05 07:54 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No progress unfortunately. In the meantime have updated to kernel 2.6.11
and found the alsa - udev incompatibility, so removed udev. My hardware
has been also updated, to Pentium 233MMX.

Is there any kind of diagnostic to tell if the MIDI data is actually being
received by the sound card?

----------------------------------------------------------------------
 tiwai - 04-12-05 16:38 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What do you mean exactly "can't play MIDI"?  Did you get any error
messages?

Issue History
Date Modified  Username       Field                    Change              
======================================================================
06-29-04 07:58 amarsh04       New Issue                                    
06-29-04 07:58 amarsh04       Distribution              => Debian          
06-29-04 07:58 amarsh04       Kernel Version            => 2.6.5-1 (problem also
showed with 2.4.24)
04-07-05 20:57 jdthood        Note Added: 0004365                          
04-10-05 07:54 amarsh04       Note Added: 0004434                          
04-10-05 09:53 jdthood        Status                   new => acknowledged 
04-12-05 16:38 tiwai          Note Added: 0004450                          
======================================================================




-------------------------------------------------------
SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide
Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users.
Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now.
http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=6595&alloc_id=14396&op=click

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* [ALSA - driver 0000349]: can't play MIDI through ALSA / MPU-401 but non-ALSA "midiplayer" to MIDI device works
@ 2005-08-29  4:23 bugtrack
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: bugtrack @ 2005-08-29  4:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: alsa-devel


A NOTE has been added to this issue.
======================================================================
<https://bugtrack.alsa-project.org/alsa-bug/view.php?id=349> 
======================================================================
Reported By:                amarsh04
Assigned To:                
======================================================================
Project:                    ALSA - driver
Issue ID:                   349
Category:                   ISA - sb16/sbawe
Reproducibility:            always
Severity:                   major
Priority:                   normal
Status:                     acknowledged
Distribution:               Debian
Kernel Version:             2.6.5-1 (problem also showed with 2.4.24)
======================================================================
Date Submitted:             06-29-2004 07:58 CEST
Last Modified:              08-29-2005 06:23 CEST
======================================================================
Summary:                    can't play MIDI through ALSA / MPU-401 but non-ALSA
"midiplayer" to MIDI device works
Description: 
With ISA SB16 PNP, aplaymidi -l reports:
Port    Client name                      Port name
 64:0    Sound Blaster 16 MIDI - Rawmidi  Sound Blaster 16 MIDI
 65:0    OPL3 FM synth                    OPL3 FM Port

Neither 
aplaymidi -p 64:0 myfile.mid
nor 
aplaymidi -p 65:0 myfile.mid 
work, but the non-ALSA "midiplayer" works playing directly to the MIDI
device:

playmidi -v -D0 myfile.mid


======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------
 tiwai - 04-12-05 16:38 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What do you mean exactly "can't play MIDI"?  Did you get any error
messages?

----------------------------------------------------------------------
 amarsh04 - 08-29-05 06:23 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Still trying to identify the problem. alsamixer reports a CTL1745 chip.

aplaymidi -l

reports:

 Port    Client name                      Port name
 62:0    Midi Through                     Midi Through Port-0
 64:0    Sound Blaster 16 MIDI            Sound Blaster 16 MIDI
 65:0    OPL3 FM synth                    OPL3 FM Port

aplaymidi --port=64:0 somefile.mid

apparently runs but gives silence

after trying some other midi programs, I get playmidi to partially work:

playmidi -r somefile.mid

reports correct instruments, but doesn't give a good sound.

playmidi -r -p 64:0 somefile.mid

reports all instruments as "Syn.Brass 2" and all channels sound like
"Syn.Brass 2"

playmidi -r -p 65:0 somefile.mid 

reports all instruments as "Soprano Sax" and all channels sound like
"Soprano Sax"

It's as if the sysex messages are being mis-interpreted although the note
events are getting through ok.

Could amidi be used to send and receive some debugging information

Running current Debian Unstable ALSA 1.0.9a

uname -a reports:

Linux symone 2.6.12-1-386 #1 Tue Aug 16 21:23:21 UTC 2005 i586 GNU/Linux

Issue History
Date Modified  Username       Field                    Change              
======================================================================
06-29-04 07:58 amarsh04       New Issue                                    
06-29-04 07:58 amarsh04       Distribution              => Debian          
06-29-04 07:58 amarsh04       Kernel Version            => 2.6.5-1 (problem also
showed with 2.4.24)
04-07-05 20:57 jdthood        Note Added: 0004365                          
04-10-05 07:54 amarsh04       Note Added: 0004434                          
04-10-05 09:53 jdthood        Status                   new => acknowledged 
04-12-05 16:38 tiwai          Note Added: 0004450                          
08-29-05 06:23 amarsh04       Note Added: 0005964                          
======================================================================




-------------------------------------------------------
SF.Net email is Sponsored by the Better Software Conference & EXPO
September 19-22, 2005 * San Francisco, CA * Development Lifecycle Practices
Agile & Plan-Driven Development * Managing Projects & Teams * Testing & QA
Security * Process Improvement & Measurement * http://www.sqe.com/bsce5sf

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* [ALSA - driver 0000349]: can't play MIDI through ALSA / MPU-401 but non-ALSA "midiplayer" to MIDI device works
@ 2005-09-02 17:53 bugtrack
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: bugtrack @ 2005-09-02 17:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: alsa-devel


A NOTE has been added to this issue.
======================================================================
<https://bugtrack.alsa-project.org/alsa-bug/view.php?id=349> 
======================================================================
Reported By:                amarsh04
Assigned To:                
======================================================================
Project:                    ALSA - driver
Issue ID:                   349
Category:                   ISA - sb16/sbawe
Reproducibility:            always
Severity:                   major
Priority:                   normal
Status:                     acknowledged
Distribution:               Debian
Kernel Version:             2.6.5-1 (problem also showed with 2.4.24)
======================================================================
Date Submitted:             06-29-2004 07:58 CEST
Last Modified:              09-02-2005 19:53 CEST
======================================================================
Summary:                    can't play MIDI through ALSA / MPU-401 but non-ALSA
"midiplayer" to MIDI device works
Description: 
With ISA SB16 PNP, aplaymidi -l reports:
Port    Client name                      Port name
 64:0    Sound Blaster 16 MIDI - Rawmidi  Sound Blaster 16 MIDI
 65:0    OPL3 FM synth                    OPL3 FM Port

Neither 
aplaymidi -p 64:0 myfile.mid
nor 
aplaymidi -p 65:0 myfile.mid 
work, but the non-ALSA "midiplayer" works playing directly to the MIDI
device:

playmidi -v -D0 myfile.mid


======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------
 amarsh04 - 08-29-05 06:25 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Still trying to identify the problem. alsamixer reports a CTL1745 chip.

aplaymidi -l

reports:

 Port    Client name                      Port name
 62:0    Midi Through                     Midi Through Port-0
 64:0    Sound Blaster 16 MIDI            Sound Blaster 16 MIDI
 65:0    OPL3 FM synth                    OPL3 FM Port

aplaymidi --port=64:0 somefile.mid

apparently runs but gives silence

after trying some other midi programs, I get playmidi to partially work:

playmidi -r somefile.mid

reports correct instruments, but doesn't give a good sound.

playmidi -r -p 64:0 somefile.mid

reports all instruments as "Syn.Brass 2" and all channels sound like
"Syn.Brass 2"

playmidi -r -p 65:0 somefile.mid 

reports all instruments as "Soprano Sax" and all channels sound like
"Soprano Sax"

It's as if the sysex messages are being mis-interpreted although the note
events are getting through ok.

Could amidi be used to send and receive some debugging information?

Running current Debian Unstable ALSA 1.0.9a

uname -a reports:

Linux symone 2.6.12-1-386 #1 Tue Aug 16 21:23:21 UTC 2005 i586 GNU/Linux



----------------------------------------------------------------------
 tiwai - 09-02-05 19:53 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you want to play via an external MIDI device or with OPL3 FM synth?

Issue History
Date Modified  Username       Field                    Change              
======================================================================
06-29-04 07:58 amarsh04       New Issue                                    
06-29-04 07:58 amarsh04       Distribution              => Debian          
06-29-04 07:58 amarsh04       Kernel Version            => 2.6.5-1 (problem also
showed with 2.4.24)
04-07-05 20:57 jdthood        Note Added: 0004365                          
04-10-05 07:54 amarsh04       Note Added: 0004434                          
04-10-05 09:53 jdthood        Status                   new => acknowledged 
04-12-05 16:38 tiwai          Note Added: 0004450                          
08-29-05 06:23 amarsh04       Note Added: 0005964                          
08-29-05 06:25 amarsh04       Note Edited: 0005964                         
09-02-05 19:53 tiwai          Note Added: 0006018                          
======================================================================




-------------------------------------------------------
SF.Net email is Sponsored by the Better Software Conference & EXPO
September 19-22, 2005 * San Francisco, CA * Development Lifecycle Practices
Agile & Plan-Driven Development * Managing Projects & Teams * Testing & QA
Security * Process Improvement & Measurement * http://www.sqe.com/bsce5sf

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* [ALSA - driver 0000349]: can't play MIDI through ALSA / MPU-401 but non-ALSA "midiplayer" to MIDI device works
@ 2005-09-03  1:42 bugtrack
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: bugtrack @ 2005-09-03  1:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: alsa-devel


A NOTE has been added to this issue.
======================================================================
<https://bugtrack.alsa-project.org/alsa-bug/view.php?id=349> 
======================================================================
Reported By:                amarsh04
Assigned To:                
======================================================================
Project:                    ALSA - driver
Issue ID:                   349
Category:                   ISA - sb16/sbawe
Reproducibility:            always
Severity:                   major
Priority:                   normal
Status:                     acknowledged
Distribution:               Debian
Kernel Version:             2.6.5-1 (problem also showed with 2.4.24)
======================================================================
Date Submitted:             06-29-2004 07:58 CEST
Last Modified:              09-03-2005 03:42 CEST
======================================================================
Summary:                    can't play MIDI through ALSA / MPU-401 but non-ALSA
"midiplayer" to MIDI device works
Description: 
With ISA SB16 PNP, aplaymidi -l reports:
Port    Client name                      Port name
 64:0    Sound Blaster 16 MIDI - Rawmidi  Sound Blaster 16 MIDI
 65:0    OPL3 FM synth                    OPL3 FM Port

Neither 
aplaymidi -p 64:0 myfile.mid
nor 
aplaymidi -p 65:0 myfile.mid 
work, but the non-ALSA "midiplayer" works playing directly to the MIDI
device:

playmidi -v -D0 myfile.mid


======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------
 tiwai - 09-02-05 19:53 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you want to play via an external MIDI device or with OPL3 FM synth?

----------------------------------------------------------------------
 amarsh04 - 09-03-05 03:42 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I just want to be able to play MIDI files through the OPL3 FM synth - I
have no external MIDI hardware.

Issue History
Date Modified  Username       Field                    Change              
======================================================================
06-29-04 07:58 amarsh04       New Issue                                    
06-29-04 07:58 amarsh04       Distribution              => Debian          
06-29-04 07:58 amarsh04       Kernel Version            => 2.6.5-1 (problem also
showed with 2.4.24)
04-07-05 20:57 jdthood        Note Added: 0004365                          
04-10-05 07:54 amarsh04       Note Added: 0004434                          
04-10-05 09:53 jdthood        Status                   new => acknowledged 
04-12-05 16:38 tiwai          Note Added: 0004450                          
08-29-05 06:23 amarsh04       Note Added: 0005964                          
08-29-05 06:25 amarsh04       Note Edited: 0005964                         
09-02-05 19:53 tiwai          Note Added: 0006018                          
09-03-05 03:42 amarsh04       Note Added: 0006029                          
======================================================================




-------------------------------------------------------
SF.Net email is Sponsored by the Better Software Conference & EXPO
September 19-22, 2005 * San Francisco, CA * Development Lifecycle Practices
Agile & Plan-Driven Development * Managing Projects & Teams * Testing & QA
Security * Process Improvement & Measurement * http://www.sqe.com/bsce5sf

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2005-09-03  1:42 UTC | newest]

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