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From: Jarkko Sakkinen <jarkko@kernel.org>
To: Jan Kiszka <jan.kiszka@siemens.com>
Cc: Peter Huewe <peterhuewe@gmx.de>,
	linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Ilias Apalodimas <ilias.apalodimas@linaro.org>,
	Jens Wiklander <jens.wiklander@linaro.org>,
	OP-TEE TrustedFirmware <op-tee@lists.trustedfirmware.org>,
	linux-crypto@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH] hwrng: tpm: Do not enable by default
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2025 21:51:19 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <aP_NN3HwO4Hp0-9T@kernel.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <bbc41534-a2d9-42dc-ac8a-ff8a0b4fd41f@siemens.com>

On Tue, Oct 21, 2025 at 02:46:15PM +0200, Jan Kiszka wrote:
> From: Jan Kiszka <jan.kiszka@siemens.com>
> 
> As seen with optee_ftpm, which uses ms-tpm-20-ref [1], a TPM may write
> the current time epoch to its NV storage every 4 seconds if there are
> commands sent to it. The 60 seconds periodic update of the entropy pool
> that the hwrng kthread does triggers this, causing about 4 writes per
> requests. Makes 2 millions per year for a 24/7 device, and that is a lot
> for its backing NV storage.
> 
> It is therefore better to make the user intentionally enable this,
> providing a chance to read the warning.
> 
> [1] https://github.com/Microsoft/ms-tpm-20-ref
> 
> Signed-off-by: Jan Kiszka <jan.kiszka@siemens.com>

Looking at DRBG_* from [1] I don't see anything you describe. If OPTEE
writes NVRAM,  then the implementation is broken.

Also AFAIK, it is pre-seeded per power cycle. There's nothing that even
distantly relates on using NVRAM.

[1] https://trustedcomputinggroup.org/wp-content/uploads/TPM-2.0-1.83-Part-4-Supporting-Routines-Code.pdf

BR, Jarkko

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Jarkko Sakkinen via OP-TEE <op-tee@lists.trustedfirmware.org>
To: Jan Kiszka <jan.kiszka@siemens.com>
Cc: Peter Huewe <peterhuewe@gmx.de>,
	linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Ilias Apalodimas <ilias.apalodimas@linaro.org>,
	OP-TEE TrustedFirmware <op-tee@lists.trustedfirmware.org>,
	linux-crypto@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH] hwrng: tpm: Do not enable by default
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2025 21:51:19 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <aP_NN3HwO4Hp0-9T@kernel.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <bbc41534-a2d9-42dc-ac8a-ff8a0b4fd41f@siemens.com>

On Tue, Oct 21, 2025 at 02:46:15PM +0200, Jan Kiszka wrote:
> From: Jan Kiszka <jan.kiszka@siemens.com>
> 
> As seen with optee_ftpm, which uses ms-tpm-20-ref [1], a TPM may write
> the current time epoch to its NV storage every 4 seconds if there are
> commands sent to it. The 60 seconds periodic update of the entropy pool
> that the hwrng kthread does triggers this, causing about 4 writes per
> requests. Makes 2 millions per year for a 24/7 device, and that is a lot
> for its backing NV storage.
> 
> It is therefore better to make the user intentionally enable this,
> providing a chance to read the warning.
> 
> [1] https://github.com/Microsoft/ms-tpm-20-ref
> 
> Signed-off-by: Jan Kiszka <jan.kiszka@siemens.com>

Looking at DRBG_* from [1] I don't see anything you describe. If OPTEE
writes NVRAM,  then the implementation is broken.

Also AFAIK, it is pre-seeded per power cycle. There's nothing that even
distantly relates on using NVRAM.

[1] https://trustedcomputinggroup.org/wp-content/uploads/TPM-2.0-1.83-Part-4-Supporting-Routines-Code.pdf

BR, Jarkko

  parent reply	other threads:[~2025-10-27 19:51 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 24+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2025-10-21 12:46 [PATCH] hwrng: tpm: Do not enable by default Jan Kiszka
2025-10-21 12:46 ` Jan Kiszka via OP-TEE
2025-10-21 16:15 ` James Bottomley
2025-10-21 16:15   ` James Bottomley via OP-TEE
2025-10-22  5:05   ` Jan Kiszka
2025-10-22  5:05     ` Jan Kiszka via OP-TEE
2025-10-27 19:51 ` Jarkko Sakkinen [this message]
2025-10-27 19:51   ` Jarkko Sakkinen via OP-TEE
2025-10-28  5:46   ` Jan Kiszka
2025-10-28  5:46     ` Jan Kiszka via OP-TEE
2025-11-09  4:43     ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2025-11-09  4:43       ` Jarkko Sakkinen via OP-TEE
2025-11-09 10:04       ` Jan Kiszka
2025-11-09 10:04         ` Jan Kiszka via OP-TEE
2026-04-29 14:33   ` Niedermayr, BENEDIKT
2026-04-29 14:33     ` Niedermayr, BENEDIKT via OP-TEE
2026-05-09 15:18     ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2026-05-09 15:18       ` Jarkko Sakkinen via OP-TEE
2026-05-10 20:42       ` Jan Kiszka
2026-05-10 20:42         ` Jan Kiszka via OP-TEE
2026-05-11  3:31         ` James Bottomley
2026-05-11  3:31           ` James Bottomley via OP-TEE
2026-05-15 21:10           ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2026-05-15 21:10             ` Jarkko Sakkinen via OP-TEE

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