From: Alejandro Colomar <alx+linux-man@kernel.org>
To: Martin Uecker <uecker@tugraz.at>
Cc: Christopher Bazley <chris.bazley.wg14@gmail.com>,
"Michael Kerrisk (man7.org)" <mtk@man7.org>,
linux-man@vger.kernel.org,
Michael Kerrisk <mtk.manpages@gmail.com>,
Sam James <sam@gentoo.org>, Carlos O'Donell <carlos@redhat.com>,
"Joseph S. Myers" <josmyers@redhat.com>,
corbet@lwn.net
Subject: Re: [PATCH] man/: SYNOPSIS: Remove GNU forward-declarations of parameters for lengths of array parameters
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2026 09:57:33 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <at3CrSg8Rpf5JDOY@debian> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <76bff7cc342961bf81acc4a2d60e8c3d01918433.camel@tugraz.at>
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2163 bytes --]
Hi Martin,
> Date: 2026-10-25 09:40:52+0100
> From: Martin Uecker <uecker@tugraz.at>
>
> Am Sonntag, dem 25.10.2026 um 08:38 +0100 schrieb Alejandro Colomar:
[...]
> > > Yes, but we do not even have a proposal and [static 1] exists today.
> >
> > Actually, we do have one: n3803.
> > <https://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg14/www/docs/n3803.txt>
> >
> > The wording on this one is good. I think I forgot some trivial
> > duplication of the diff for both the non-abstract and the abstract
> > declarators, but I can fix that when I arrive home, so we could have it
> > in time for the next meeting.
>
> Yes, please. But this would also not work for function pointer,
> so I thought you meant something new.
Done. I've asked Dan for a number, and sent the draft to the mailing
list.
> > > > And we also have the issue that it changes the meaning of the bound.
> > > > It's just terrible.
> > >
> > > The bound in [1] has no meaning in parameters,
> >
> > This is not true. ISO C is just toilet paper in this regard.
> > It has a meaning in SDCC and GCC, and every programmer that ever wrote
> > [1] assigned a meaning to it. Moreover, I'm using [1] myself to express
> > pointers to exactly 1 element.
>
> In GCC [static n] and [n] have the same meaning, except
> that [static] additionally implies that the pointer is not null.
> I have worked on this, so please assume I know this.
Indeed, I know you know.
> In ISO C it is as I said, [n] has no meaning and [static n]
> is a strict subset of what we want.
And I insist that ISO C should be ignored. It doesn't matter what ISO C
says about it, and your statement that [1] has no meaning in parameters
is giving it too much credibility.
> So I am really confused about what you are trying to tell me.
I'm trying to say that [1] has a meaning, even outside of GCC. Every
programmer that ever wrote [n] meant the obvious thing. The fact that
ISO C ignores this shouldn't be an excuse to claim that [static n]
doesn't change the meaning, because it is a de-facto change of meaning.
Cheers,
Alex
--
<https://www.alejandro-colomar.es>
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2026-10-25 8:57 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 28+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2026-10-22 16:44 [PATCH] man/: SYNOPSIS: Remove GNU forward-declarations of parameters for lengths of array parameters Alejandro Colomar
2026-10-22 17:11 ` Martin Uecker
2026-10-22 20:01 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-10-22 20:27 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-10-22 17:37 ` Christopher Bazley
[not found] ` <CAEHU8x9jET+vcrR0NpDz6t57egQG8TZqx5XtV52srH9ZRvdxSQ@mail.gmail.com>
2026-10-22 19:54 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-10-23 11:53 ` Michael Kerrisk (man7.org)
2026-10-23 12:42 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-10-23 15:51 ` Christopher Bazley
2026-10-24 12:45 ` Michael Kerrisk (man7.org)
2026-10-24 13:38 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-10-24 16:16 ` Christopher Bazley
2026-10-24 16:37 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-10-24 18:11 ` Martin Uecker
2026-10-25 6:59 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-10-25 7:22 ` Martin Uecker
2026-10-25 7:38 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-10-25 8:29 ` G. Branden Robinson
2026-10-25 8:40 ` Martin Uecker
2026-10-25 8:57 ` Alejandro Colomar [this message]
2026-10-25 9:05 ` Martin Uecker
2026-10-29 21:24 ` Christopher Bazley
2026-10-23 12:11 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-10-22 22:03 ` Mark Harris
2026-10-23 9:43 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-10-23 19:32 ` Mark Harris
2026-10-23 20:06 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-10-24 7:53 ` Martin Uecker
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