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From: Alejandro Colomar <alx+linux-man@kernel.org>
To: Mark Harris <mark.hsj@gmail.com>
Cc: linux-man@vger.kernel.org,
	Michael Kerrisk <mtk.manpages@gmail.com>,
	 Christopher Bazley <chris.bazley.wg14@gmail.com>,
	Sam James <sam@gentoo.org>, Carlos O'Donell <carlos@redhat.com>,
	 "Joseph S. Myers" <josmyers@redhat.com>,
	Martin Uecker <uecker@tugraz.at>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] man/: SYNOPSIS: Remove GNU forward-declarations of parameters for lengths of array parameters
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2026 11:43:42 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <atsrNyzuYebABZjH@debian> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAMdZqKEWzg6Z5oYp8N+S4rkOjUU7WT6jwbVDCAk3YN3ZdP7u+Q@mail.gmail.com>

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Hi Mark,

> Date: 2026-10-22 15:03:37-0700
> From: Mark Harris <mark.hsj@gmail.com>
>
[...]
> 
> The man pages are frequently used when seeing a call to an unfamiliar
> function, to understand what the function expects and what it is doing
> with those arguments.  The arguments in the call are matched to the
> synopsis by order, not by name, so for example a person questioning
> the first argument would naturally be looking at the first thing after
> the "(" to find out what is expected there.
>
> A person that is reading the description, where it refers to the
> arguments by name, needs to convert that name to the argument number
> in order to match it to the arguments in the actual call.  The natural
> way to do that is to count the argument names in the synopsis (at
> least those not preceded by an unterminated bracket or comment) and
> stop when that name is found.  For example if that is the first
> argument name after the "(" in the synopsis then it would be natural
> to conclude that it matches the first argument to the call, and not
> continue scanning to see if there is another occurrence of the same
> argument name.

That's a valid concern, but most often the first argument will be of
a different and incompatible type (they tend to be pointers, which is
the reason we need the forward declaration in the first place), and thus
such a mistake in the understanding of the order of arguments will
result in a compiler error, which is a relatively mild problem.

You didn't take into account my other concerns, though.  I'd like to
hear your opinion about the concerns that letting users think that is
valid C might lead to them writing code that has UB (or logic errors).

> So I agree with Michael that this change is a good one to make the man
> pages less confusing.  Thanks for creating the change.

Thanks for your feedback!

> 
>  - Mark


Have a lovely day!
Alex

-- 
<https://www.alejandro-colomar.es>

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  reply	other threads:[~2026-10-23  9:43 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 27+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2026-10-22 16:44 [PATCH] man/: SYNOPSIS: Remove GNU forward-declarations of parameters for lengths of array parameters Alejandro Colomar
2026-10-22 17:11 ` Martin Uecker
2026-10-22 20:01   ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-10-22 20:27     ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-10-22 17:37 ` Christopher Bazley
     [not found] ` <CAEHU8x9jET+vcrR0NpDz6t57egQG8TZqx5XtV52srH9ZRvdxSQ@mail.gmail.com>
2026-10-22 19:54   ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-10-23 11:53     ` Michael Kerrisk (man7.org)
2026-10-23 12:42       ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-10-23 15:51       ` Christopher Bazley
2026-10-24 12:45         ` Michael Kerrisk (man7.org)
2026-10-24 13:38           ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-10-24 16:16             ` Christopher Bazley
2026-10-24 16:37               ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-10-24 18:11                 ` Martin Uecker
2026-10-25  6:59                   ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-10-25  7:22                     ` Martin Uecker
2026-10-25  7:38                       ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-10-25  8:29                         ` G. Branden Robinson
2026-10-25  8:40                         ` Martin Uecker
2026-10-25  8:57                           ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-10-25  9:05                             ` Martin Uecker
2026-10-23 12:11     ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-10-22 22:03 ` Mark Harris
2026-10-23  9:43   ` Alejandro Colomar [this message]
2026-10-23 19:32     ` Mark Harris
2026-10-23 20:06       ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-10-24  7:53   ` Martin Uecker

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