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From: David Laight <David.Laight@ACULAB.COM>
To: 'Dave Hansen' <dave.hansen@intel.com>,
	Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com>
Cc: Uros Bizjak <ubizjak@gmail.com>,
	"linux-alpha@vger.kernel.org" <linux-alpha@vger.kernel.org>,
	"loongarch@lists.linux.dev" <loongarch@lists.linux.dev>,
	"linux-mips@vger.kernel.org" <linux-mips@vger.kernel.org>,
	"linuxppc-dev@lists.ozlabs.org" <linuxppc-dev@lists.ozlabs.org>,
	"x86@kernel.org" <x86@kernel.org>,
	"linux-arch@vger.kernel.org" <linux-arch@vger.kernel.org>,
	"linux-perf-users@vger.kernel.org"
	<linux-perf-users@vger.kernel.org>,
	"linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Richard Henderson <richard.henderson@linaro.org>,
	Ivan Kokshaysky <ink@jurassic.park.msu.ru>,
	Matt Turner <mattst88@gmail.com>,
	Huacai Chen <chenhuacai@kernel.org>,
	WANG Xuerui <kernel@xen0n.name>,
	Thomas Bogendoerfer <tsbogend@alpha.franken.de>,
	Michael Ellerman <mpe@el>
Subject: RE: [PATCH v2 0/5] locking: Introduce local{,64}_try_cmpxchg
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2023 21:34:35 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <bd5753622f2f42248495a42593b497f3@AcuMS.aculab.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1fee0372-3a3b-5e09-38c3-ffb3523fe195@intel.com>

From: Dave Hansen
> Sent: 11 April 2023 14:44
> 
> On 4/11/23 04:35, Mark Rutland wrote:
> > I agree it'd be nice to have performance figures, but I think those would only
> > need to demonstrate a lack of a regression rather than a performance
> > improvement, and I think it's fairly clear from eyeballing the generated
> > instructions that a regression isn't likely.
> 
> Thanks for the additional context.
> 
> I totally agree that there's zero burden here to show a performance
> increase.  If anyone can think of a quick way to do _some_ kind of
> benchmark on the code being changed and just show that it's free of
> brown paper bags, it would be appreciated.  Nothing crazy, just think of
> one workload (synthetic or not) that will stress the paths being changed
> and run it with and without these changes.  Make sure there are not
> surprises.
> 
> I also agree that it's unlikely to be brown paper bag material.

The only thing I can think of is that, on x86, the locked
variant may actually be faster!
Both require exclusive access to the cache line (the unlocked
variant always does the write! [1]).
So if the cache line is contended between cpu the unlocked
variant might ping-pong the cache line twice!
Of course, if the line is shared like that then performance
is horrid.

[1] I checked on an uncached PCIe address on which I can monitor
the TLP. The write always happens so you can use cmpxchg18b
with a 'known bad value' to do a 16 byte read as a single TLP
(without using an SSE register).

	David

-
Registered Address Lakeside, Bramley Road, Mount Farm, Milton Keynes, MK1 1PT, UK
Registration No: 1397386 (Wales)

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: David Laight <David.Laight@ACULAB.COM>
To: 'Dave Hansen' <dave.hansen@intel.com>,
	Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com>
Cc: Uros Bizjak <ubizjak@gmail.com>,
	"linux-alpha@vger.kernel.org" <linux-alpha@vger.kernel.org>,
	"loongarch@lists.linux.dev" <loongarch@lists.linux.dev>,
	"linux-mips@vger.kernel.org" <linux-mips@vger.kernel.org>,
	"linuxppc-dev@lists.ozlabs.org" <linuxppc-dev@lists.ozlabs.org>,
	"x86@kernel.org" <x86@kernel.org>,
	"linux-arch@vger.kernel.org" <linux-arch@vger.kernel.org>,
	"linux-perf-users@vger.kernel.org"
	<linux-perf-users@vger.kernel.org>,
	"linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	"Richard Henderson" <richard.henderson@linaro.org>,
	Ivan Kokshaysky <ink@jurassic.park.msu.ru>,
	Matt Turner <mattst88@gmail.com>,
	Huacai Chen <chenhuacai@kernel.org>,
	WANG Xuerui <kernel@xen0n.name>,
	Thomas Bogendoerfer <tsbogend@alpha.franken.de>,
	Michael Ellerman <mpe@ellerman.id.au>,
	"Nicholas Piggin" <npiggin@gmail.com>,
	Christophe Leroy <christophe.leroy@csgroup.eu>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@redhat.com>, Borislav Petkov <bp@alien8.de>,
	Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@linux.intel.com>,
	"H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>, Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de>,
	"Peter Zijlstra" <peterz@infradead.org>,
	Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo <acme@kernel.org>,
	Alexander Shishkin <alexander.shishkin@linux.intel.com>,
	Jiri Olsa <jolsa@kernel.org>, Namhyung Kim <namhyung@kernel.org>,
	Ian Rogers <irogers@google.com>, Will Deacon <will@kernel.org>,
	Boqun Feng <boqun.feng@gmail.com>,
	Jiaxun Yang <jiaxun.yang@flygoat.com>, Jun Yi <yijun@loongson.cn>
Subject: RE: [PATCH v2 0/5] locking: Introduce local{,64}_try_cmpxchg
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2023 21:34:35 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <bd5753622f2f42248495a42593b497f3@AcuMS.aculab.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1fee0372-3a3b-5e09-38c3-ffb3523fe195@intel.com>

From: Dave Hansen
> Sent: 11 April 2023 14:44
> 
> On 4/11/23 04:35, Mark Rutland wrote:
> > I agree it'd be nice to have performance figures, but I think those would only
> > need to demonstrate a lack of a regression rather than a performance
> > improvement, and I think it's fairly clear from eyeballing the generated
> > instructions that a regression isn't likely.
> 
> Thanks for the additional context.
> 
> I totally agree that there's zero burden here to show a performance
> increase.  If anyone can think of a quick way to do _some_ kind of
> benchmark on the code being changed and just show that it's free of
> brown paper bags, it would be appreciated.  Nothing crazy, just think of
> one workload (synthetic or not) that will stress the paths being changed
> and run it with and without these changes.  Make sure there are not
> surprises.
> 
> I also agree that it's unlikely to be brown paper bag material.

The only thing I can think of is that, on x86, the locked
variant may actually be faster!
Both require exclusive access to the cache line (the unlocked
variant always does the write! [1]).
So if the cache line is contended between cpu the unlocked
variant might ping-pong the cache line twice!
Of course, if the line is shared like that then performance
is horrid.

[1] I checked on an uncached PCIe address on which I can monitor
the TLP. The write always happens so you can use cmpxchg18b
with a 'known bad value' to do a 16 byte read as a single TLP
(without using an SSE register).

	David

-
Registered Address Lakeside, Bramley Road, Mount Farm, Milton Keynes, MK1 1PT, UK
Registration No: 1397386 (Wales)

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: David Laight <David.Laight@ACULAB.COM>
To: 'Dave Hansen' <dave.hansen@intel.com>,
	Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com>
Cc: Ian Rogers <irogers@google.com>,
	"x86@kernel.org" <x86@kernel.org>,
	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
	Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@linux.intel.com>,
	Jiaxun Yang <jiaxun.yang@flygoat.com>,
	"linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	"H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>, WANG Xuerui <kernel@xen0n.name>,
	Will Deacon <will@kernel.org>,
	"linux-arch@vger.kernel.org" <linux-arch@vger.kernel.org>,
	Jun Yi <yijun@loongson.cn>, Huacai Chen <chenhuacai@kernel.org>,
	Uros Bizjak <ubizjak@gmail.com>,
	Alexander Shishkin <alexander.shishkin@linux.intel.com>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@redhat.com>, Matt Turner <mattst88@gmail.com>,
	Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de>, Boqun Feng <boqun.feng@gmail.com>,
	Richard Henderson <richard.henderson@linaro.org>,
	Nicholas Piggin <npiggin@gmail.com>,
	Ivan Kokshaysky <ink@jurassic.park.msu.ru>,
	Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo <acme@kernel.org>,
	"loongarch@lists.linux.dev" <loongarch@lists.linux.dev>,
	Namhyung Kim <namhyung@kernel.org>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	Thomas Bogendoerfer <tsbogend@alpha.franken.de>,
	"linux-mips@vger.kernel.org" <linux-mips@vger.kernel.org>,
	"linux-perf-users@vger.kernel.org"
	<linux-perf-users@vger.kernel.org>, Jiri Olsa <jolsa@kernel.org>,
	"linux-alpha@vger.kernel.org" <linux-alpha@vger.kernel.org>,
	Borislav Petkov <bp@alien8.de>,
	"linuxppc-dev@lists.ozlabs.org" <linuxppc-dev@lists.ozlabs.org>
Subject: RE: [PATCH v2 0/5] locking: Introduce local{,64}_try_cmpxchg
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2023 21:34:35 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <bd5753622f2f42248495a42593b497f3@AcuMS.aculab.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1fee0372-3a3b-5e09-38c3-ffb3523fe195@intel.com>

From: Dave Hansen
> Sent: 11 April 2023 14:44
> 
> On 4/11/23 04:35, Mark Rutland wrote:
> > I agree it'd be nice to have performance figures, but I think those would only
> > need to demonstrate a lack of a regression rather than a performance
> > improvement, and I think it's fairly clear from eyeballing the generated
> > instructions that a regression isn't likely.
> 
> Thanks for the additional context.
> 
> I totally agree that there's zero burden here to show a performance
> increase.  If anyone can think of a quick way to do _some_ kind of
> benchmark on the code being changed and just show that it's free of
> brown paper bags, it would be appreciated.  Nothing crazy, just think of
> one workload (synthetic or not) that will stress the paths being changed
> and run it with and without these changes.  Make sure there are not
> surprises.
> 
> I also agree that it's unlikely to be brown paper bag material.

The only thing I can think of is that, on x86, the locked
variant may actually be faster!
Both require exclusive access to the cache line (the unlocked
variant always does the write! [1]).
So if the cache line is contended between cpu the unlocked
variant might ping-pong the cache line twice!
Of course, if the line is shared like that then performance
is horrid.

[1] I checked on an uncached PCIe address on which I can monitor
the TLP. The write always happens so you can use cmpxchg18b
with a 'known bad value' to do a 16 byte read as a single TLP
(without using an SSE register).

	David

-
Registered Address Lakeside, Bramley Road, Mount Farm, Milton Keynes, MK1 1PT, UK
Registration No: 1397386 (Wales)

  reply	other threads:[~2023-04-11 21:34 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 62+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2023-04-05 14:17 [PATCH v2 0/5] locking: Introduce local{,64}_try_cmpxchg Uros Bizjak
2023-04-05 14:17 ` Uros Bizjak
2023-04-05 14:17 ` Uros Bizjak
2023-04-05 14:17 ` [PATCH v2 1/5] locking/atomic: Add generic try_cmpxchg{,64}_local support Uros Bizjak
2023-04-05 14:17   ` Uros Bizjak
2023-04-11 11:10   ` Mark Rutland
2023-04-11 11:10     ` Mark Rutland
2023-04-13 11:38   ` [tip: locking/core] " tip-bot2 for Uros Bizjak
2023-04-29  7:03   ` [tip: locking/core] locking/atomic: Add generic try_cmpxchg{,64}_local() support tip-bot2 for Uros Bizjak
2023-04-29  7:18   ` tip-bot2 for Uros Bizjak
2023-04-05 14:17 ` [PATCH v2 2/5] locking/generic: Wire up local{,64}_try_cmpxchg Uros Bizjak
2023-04-11 11:13   ` Mark Rutland
2023-04-11 11:13     ` Mark Rutland
2023-04-13 11:38   ` [tip: locking/core] " tip-bot2 for Uros Bizjak
2023-04-29  7:03   ` [tip: locking/core] locking/generic: Wire up local{,64}_try_cmpxchg() tip-bot2 for Uros Bizjak
2023-04-29  7:18   ` tip-bot2 for Uros Bizjak
2023-04-05 14:17 ` [PATCH v2 3/5] locking/arch: Wire up local_try_cmpxchg Uros Bizjak
2023-04-05 14:17   ` Uros Bizjak
2023-04-12 11:32   ` Peter Zijlstra
2023-04-12 11:32     ` Peter Zijlstra
2023-04-12 13:37     ` Uros Bizjak
2023-04-12 13:37       ` Uros Bizjak
2023-04-12 13:37       ` Uros Bizjak
2023-04-12 13:40       ` Peter Zijlstra
2023-04-12 13:40         ` Peter Zijlstra
2023-04-12 13:40         ` Peter Zijlstra
2023-04-13 11:38   ` [tip: locking/core] " tip-bot2 for Uros Bizjak
2023-04-29  7:03   ` [tip: locking/core] locking/arch: Wire up local_try_cmpxchg() tip-bot2 for Uros Bizjak
2023-04-29  7:18   ` tip-bot2 for Uros Bizjak
2023-05-17  7:41   ` [PATCH v2 3/5] locking/arch: Wire up local_try_cmpxchg Charlemagne Lasse
2023-05-17  7:41     ` Charlemagne Lasse
2023-05-17  7:41     ` Charlemagne Lasse
2023-04-05 14:17 ` [PATCH v2 4/5] locking/x86: Define arch_try_cmpxchg_local Uros Bizjak
2023-04-05 14:17   ` Uros Bizjak
2023-04-13 11:38   ` [tip: locking/core] " tip-bot2 for Uros Bizjak
2023-04-29  7:03   ` [tip: locking/core] locking/x86: Define arch_try_cmpxchg_local() tip-bot2 for Uros Bizjak
2023-04-29  7:18   ` tip-bot2 for Uros Bizjak
2023-04-05 14:17 ` [PATCH v2 5/5] events: Illustrate the transition to local{,64}_try_cmpxchg Uros Bizjak
2023-04-05 16:37 ` [PATCH v2 0/5] locking: Introduce local{,64}_try_cmpxchg Dave Hansen
2023-04-05 16:37   ` Dave Hansen
2023-04-05 16:37   ` Dave Hansen
2023-04-05 18:53   ` Uros Bizjak
2023-04-05 18:53     ` Uros Bizjak
2023-04-05 18:53     ` Uros Bizjak
2023-04-06  8:25   ` David Laight
2023-04-06  8:25     ` David Laight
2023-04-06  8:25     ` David Laight
2023-04-06  8:38     ` Uros Bizjak
2023-04-06  8:38       ` Uros Bizjak
2023-04-06  8:38       ` Uros Bizjak
2023-04-06  9:01       ` David Laight
2023-04-06  9:01         ` David Laight
2023-04-06  9:01         ` David Laight
2023-04-11 11:35   ` Mark Rutland
2023-04-11 11:35     ` Mark Rutland
2023-04-11 11:35     ` Mark Rutland
2023-04-11 13:43     ` Dave Hansen
2023-04-11 13:43       ` Dave Hansen
2023-04-11 13:43       ` Dave Hansen
2023-04-11 21:34       ` David Laight [this message]
2023-04-11 21:34         ` David Laight
2023-04-11 21:34         ` David Laight

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