Inverted front speakers on sb live

Inverted front speakers on sb live

[Wiebe Cazemier]

Hi,

Most SB live soundcards have the front speaker signal inverted. With the old
OSS driver, it was possible to load a DSP patch into the signal processor to
correct this. The alsa tools package does provide the as10k1 compiler, but I
can't seem to find a way to load the program, if it is even compatible with
the Alsa driver.

Is there a way with Alsa to correct this very annoying behaviour? There is a
control called "Sigmatel Surround Phase Inversion Playback" in the mixer, but
it does nothing.

Thanks in advance


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Re: Inverted front speakers on sb live

[Takashi Iwai]

At Thu, 06 Jul 2006 10:32:38 +0200,
Wiebe Cazemier wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Most SB live soundcards have the front speaker signal inverted. With the old
> OSS driver, it was possible to load a DSP patch into the signal processor to
> correct this. The alsa tools package does provide the as10k1 compiler, but I
> can't seem to find a way to load the program, if it is even compatible with
> the Alsa driver.

There are some tools in alsa-tools package, as10k1 (ALSA version) and
ld10k1.  Try it out.


Takashi


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Re: Inverted front speakers on sb live

[Wiebe Cazemier]

On Tuesday 11 July 2006 12:41, Takashi Iwai wrote:

> There are some tools in alsa-tools package, as10k1 (ALSA version) and
> ld10k1.  Try it out.

I don't have ld10k1.

These are all the files in /usr/bin that alsa-tools provide:

/usr/bin/ac3dec
/usr/bin/as10k1
/usr/bin/cspctl
/usr/bin/echomixer
/usr/bin/envy24control
/usr/bin/extract_ac3
/usr/bin/hdsploader
/usr/bin/mixartloader
/usr/bin/rmedigicontrol
/usr/bin/sbiload
/usr/bin/sscape_ctl
/usr/bin/us428control
/usr/bin/usx2yloader
/usr/bin/vxloader

Hmm, this is strange. Alsa-tools 1.0.11 I installed in Gentoo doesn't have
ld10k1, but the tar file of 1.0.10 does have it. I wonder why it's not
installed in Gentoo. At least I have something to go on now. Thanks.



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Re: Inverted front speakers on sb live

[Takashi Iwai]

At Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:49:27 +0200,
Wiebe Cazemier wrote:
> 
> On Tuesday 11 July 2006 12:41, Takashi Iwai wrote:
> 
> > There are some tools in alsa-tools package, as10k1 (ALSA version) and
> > ld10k1.  Try it out.
> 
> I don't have ld10k1.
> 
> These are all the files in /usr/bin that alsa-tools provide:
> 
> /usr/bin/ac3dec
> /usr/bin/as10k1
> /usr/bin/cspctl
> /usr/bin/echomixer
> /usr/bin/envy24control
> /usr/bin/extract_ac3
> /usr/bin/hdsploader
> /usr/bin/mixartloader
> /usr/bin/rmedigicontrol
> /usr/bin/sbiload
> /usr/bin/sscape_ctl
> /usr/bin/us428control
> /usr/bin/usx2yloader
> /usr/bin/vxloader
> 
> Hmm, this is strange. Alsa-tools 1.0.11 I installed in Gentoo doesn't have
> ld10k1, but the tar file of 1.0.10 does have it. I wonder why it's not
> installed in Gentoo. At least I have something to go on now. Thanks.

Maybe it's because the installation process of gentoo.

ld10k1 requires as10k1 to be installed beforehand.  Thus, you'd need a
dummy installation of as10k1 to a certain writable directory at first
in order to build ld10k1 in user privilege.


Takashi


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Re: Inverted front speakers on sb live

[Wiebe Cazemier]

On Tuesday 11 July 2006 12:49, Wiebe Cazemier wrote:

> I don't have ld10k1.
> 
> These are all the files in /usr/bin that alsa-tools provide:
> 
> /usr/bin/ac3dec
> /usr/bin/as10k1
> /usr/bin/cspctl
> /usr/bin/echomixer
> /usr/bin/envy24control
> /usr/bin/extract_ac3
> /usr/bin/hdsploader
> /usr/bin/mixartloader
> /usr/bin/rmedigicontrol
> /usr/bin/sbiload
> /usr/bin/sscape_ctl
> /usr/bin/us428control
> /usr/bin/usx2yloader
> /usr/bin/vxloader
> 
> Hmm, this is strange. Alsa-tools 1.0.11 I installed in Gentoo doesn't have
> ld10k1, but the tar file of 1.0.10 does have it. I wonder why it's not
> installed in Gentoo. At least I have something to go on now. Thanks.

OK, this is proving to be difficult. When you start the patch server (ld10k1),
the DSP is cleared (at least mostly) and whatever initialisations alsa did,
like setting up the mixer, are gone. There is an init_live script in the
alsa-tools package, but I'm not sure if that sets it up like the driver itself
does. What's also curious, is that the effects contained in the alsa-tools
package are almost the same as the OSS EMU driver, except for inv.asm, which
solves the inversion problem.

Because the driver does it's own initialisation (DSP configuration and routing
and such), shouldn't it also take care of the inversion problem? It's kind of
strange that this problem is not addressed anymore in Alsa, whereas it was in
the OSS driver.

In other words: isn't it simply a bug that this problem isn't fixed by the
driver? The OSS driver had this neat config option you could simply set
to "yes". Such a thing here would be welcome as well.



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Re: Inverted front speakers on sb live

[Takashi Iwai]

At Tue, 11 Jul 2006 13:21:12 +0200,
Wiebe Cazemier wrote:
> 
> On Tuesday 11 July 2006 12:49, Wiebe Cazemier wrote:
> 
> > I don't have ld10k1.
> > 
> > These are all the files in /usr/bin that alsa-tools provide:
> > 
> > /usr/bin/ac3dec
> > /usr/bin/as10k1
> > /usr/bin/cspctl
> > /usr/bin/echomixer
> > /usr/bin/envy24control
> > /usr/bin/extract_ac3
> > /usr/bin/hdsploader
> > /usr/bin/mixartloader
> > /usr/bin/rmedigicontrol
> > /usr/bin/sbiload
> > /usr/bin/sscape_ctl
> > /usr/bin/us428control
> > /usr/bin/usx2yloader
> > /usr/bin/vxloader
> > 
> > Hmm, this is strange. Alsa-tools 1.0.11 I installed in Gentoo doesn't have
> > ld10k1, but the tar file of 1.0.10 does have it. I wonder why it's not
> > installed in Gentoo. At least I have something to go on now. Thanks.
> 
> OK, this is proving to be difficult. When you start the patch server (ld10k1),
> the DSP is cleared (at least mostly) and whatever initialisations alsa did,
> like setting up the mixer, are gone. There is an init_live script in the
> alsa-tools package, but I'm not sure if that sets it up like the driver itself
> does. What's also curious, is that the effects contained in the alsa-tools
> package are almost the same as the OSS EMU driver, except for inv.asm, which
> solves the inversion problem.
> 
> Because the driver does it's own initialisation (DSP configuration and routing
> and such), shouldn't it also take care of the inversion problem? It's kind of
> strange that this problem is not addressed anymore in Alsa, whereas it was in
> the OSS driver.

Yes, it'd be better to include it in the driver code, IMO.
Which chip model is affected by this problem?


Takashi


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Re: Inverted front speakers on sb live

[Wiebe Cazemier]

On Tuesday 11 July 2006 13:26, Takashi Iwai wrote:

>> OK, this is proving to be difficult. When you start the patch server
>> (ld10k1), the DSP is cleared (at least mostly) and whatever initialisations
>> alsa did, like setting up the mixer, are gone. There is an init_live script
>> in the alsa-tools package, but I'm not sure if that sets it up like the
>> driver itself does. What's also curious, is that the effects contained in
>> the alsa-tools package are almost the same as the OSS EMU driver, except for
>> inv.asm, which solves the inversion problem.
>> 
>> Because the driver does it's own initialisation (DSP configuration and
>> routing and such), shouldn't it also take care of the inversion problem?
>> It's kind of strange that this problem is not addressed anymore in Alsa,
>> whereas it was in the OSS driver.
> 
> Yes, it'd be better to include it in the driver code, IMO.
> Which chip model is affected by this problem?

That is a good question. All I know is that "most" of em have it. It was stated
like this in the OSS emu docs, so perhaps the author of that document, or
people previously involved with the OSS driver, know it. Creative obviously
knows it, since their driver can correct the problem, but I don't think
they'll be very cooperative in answering questions.

My card is CT4832 [pci id: "1102:0002 (rev 08)"]

There are quite a number of chips out there, I bet this isn't the only one
affected.



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Re: Inverted front speakers on sb live

[Wiebe Cazemier]

On Tuesday 11 July 2006 13:26, Takashi Iwai wrote:

> At Tue, 11 Jul 2006 13:21:12 +0200,
> Wiebe Cazemier wrote:
>> 
>> On Tuesday 11 July 2006 12:49, Wiebe Cazemier wrote:
>> 
>> > I don't have ld10k1.
>> > 
>> > These are all the files in /usr/bin that alsa-tools provide:
>> > 
>> > /usr/bin/ac3dec
>> > /usr/bin/as10k1
>> > /usr/bin/cspctl
>> > /usr/bin/echomixer
>> > /usr/bin/envy24control
>> > /usr/bin/extract_ac3
>> > /usr/bin/hdsploader
>> > /usr/bin/mixartloader
>> > /usr/bin/rmedigicontrol
>> > /usr/bin/sbiload
>> > /usr/bin/sscape_ctl
>> > /usr/bin/us428control
>> > /usr/bin/usx2yloader
>> > /usr/bin/vxloader
>> > 
>> > Hmm, this is strange. Alsa-tools 1.0.11 I installed in Gentoo doesn't have
>> > ld10k1, but the tar file of 1.0.10 does have it. I wonder why it's not
>> > installed in Gentoo. At least I have something to go on now. Thanks.
>> 
>> OK, this is proving to be difficult. When you start the patch server
>> (ld10k1), the DSP is cleared (at least mostly) and whatever initialisations
>> alsa did, like setting up the mixer, are gone. There is an init_live script
>> in the alsa-tools package, but I'm not sure if that sets it up like the
>> driver itself does. What's also curious, is that the effects contained in
>> the alsa-tools package are almost the same as the OSS EMU driver, except for
>> inv.asm, which solves the inversion problem.
>> 
>> Because the driver does it's own initialisation (DSP configuration and
>> routing and such), shouldn't it also take care of the inversion problem?
>> It's kind of strange that this problem is not addressed anymore in Alsa,
>> whereas it was in the OSS driver.
> 
> Yes, it'd be better to include it in the driver code, IMO.
> Which chip model is affected by this problem?

Can I assume that by the questions you've asked, this issue is being addressed?
Is there an issue I can monitor on the issue tracker? I did find an old one:

https://bugtrack.alsa-project.org/alsa-bug/view.php?id=1286

But I believe it's description is wrong as in it states the rears are inverted.
The OSS EMU docs said the fronts were.



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