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From: Gabriele Monaco <gmonaco@redhat.com>
To: Steven Rostedt <rostedt@goodmis.org>
Cc: Nam Cao <namcao@linutronix.de>,
	John Ogness <john.ogness@linutronix.de>,
	Tomas Glozar <tglozar@redhat.com>,
	Alexei Starovoitov <alexei.starovoitov@gmail.com>,
		linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-trace-kernel@vger.kernel.org, 	bpf@vger.kernel.org,
	Wen Yang <wen.yang@linux.dev>,
	Tobias Schaffner	 <tobias.schaffner@siemens.com>,
	Viktor Malik <vmalik@redhat.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 10/15] tools/rv: Add BPF monitors
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2026 17:24:03 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <fb5c20f226f723cbb4df5092462dfcf5f2686367.camel@redhat.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20261021094853.29b9f7be@gandalf.local.home>

On Wed, 2026-10-21 at 09:48 -0400, Steven Rostedt wrote:
> BTW, I'm curious if it isn't possible to keep both in-kernel and BPF
> monitors? That is, for those cases that do not change often and has a well
> known model, to simply keep those as modules and hard coded.

In my opinion it is possible and I'm designing every change with that
coexistence in mind.

I would say we could only drop in-kernel if BPF does such a great job to cover
every single technical and non-technical requirement or use-case, AND if it
makes maintaining the whole thing easier.

But I'd like both to be fully ready upstream before taking that decision, though
I'm getting more and more sceptical.

> But this entire thread started with people that wanted BPF type of
> monitors for more flexibility. I would argue that is an entirely separate
> use case. For them, it should be a fully BPF solution, with a few hooks
> into the RV infrastructure.
> 
> It currently is a big unknown if the BPF solution can handle all the use
> cases of the current module method. My suggestion is to not try to do so.
> Keep the module method for the more static use cases that do not need
> dynamic changes. And create a purely BPF method for those that need BPF.
> 
> This thread is sounding like there's different requirements between the BPF
> and module methods. If that's the case, let's keep them separate.
> 
> I agree with Alexei's first comment about not adding BPF to the module
> method. But that doesn't mean we need to eliminate the module method
> completely in order to use BPF. Instead, just create a new BPF pure method.
> 
> Perhaps in the future the BPF method may make the module method obsolete,
> but I don't want users of the module method having to do all these
> workarounds just to satisfy the BPF method while it is in development.

Agree, from the initial survey I had it seems some folks still prefer in-kernel
monitors with current infrastructure and cannot migrate (e.g. cannot build BPF
in their kernels).

Right now we're trying to understand what are the non-negotiables also BPF must
have and it seems we need some sort of tracepoints (via bpf_printk or something
more convoluted).
That makes it converge even closer to the in-kernel monitors usage, although it
still isn't a drop in replacement.

Reactors will stay, just probably not in BPF for now.

But thanks for chipping in, I fully agree.

Gabriele


  reply	other threads:[~2026-10-21 15:24 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 89+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2026-10-01 15:20 [PATCH v2 00/15] rv: Add support for BPF monitors Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-01 15:20 ` [PATCH v2 01/15] sched: Add task enqueue/dequeue trace points Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-01 15:49   ` Peter Zijlstra
2026-10-02  7:09     ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-02 10:29       ` Peter Zijlstra
2026-10-02 11:55         ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-02 19:18           ` Peter Zijlstra
2026-10-02 19:40             ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-04  7:57             ` Steven Rostedt
2026-10-12 11:54               ` Peter Zijlstra
2026-10-04  7:45         ` Steven Rostedt
2026-10-12 11:49           ` Peter Zijlstra
2026-10-02  0:42   ` bot+bpf-ci
2026-10-01 15:20 ` [PATCH v2 02/15] tools/rv: Skip empty pid error in selftest if command failed Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-02  0:42   ` bot+bpf-ci
2026-10-01 15:20 ` [PATCH v2 03/15] rv: Refactor da_trace() functions to get strings internally Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-01 15:20 ` [PATCH v2 04/15] rv: Cast result of model_get_*_name() Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-13  6:14   ` Nam Cao
2026-10-13  8:15     ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-14  9:52     ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-14 10:02       ` Nam Cao
2026-10-01 15:20 ` [PATCH v2 05/15] tools/rv: Move argument parsing from in_kernel to utils Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-02  0:25   ` bot+bpf-ci
2026-10-01 15:20 ` [PATCH v2 06/15] tools/build: Add a feature test for bpftool-btf Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-01 15:20 ` [PATCH v2 07/15] tools/rv: Implement BPF monitor discovery and listing Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-01 15:40   ` sashiko-bot
2026-10-02  0:42   ` bot+bpf-ci
2026-10-01 15:20 ` [PATCH v2 08/15] tools/rv: Implement BPF monitor loading and tracing Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-01 15:41   ` sashiko-bot
2026-10-02  0:43   ` bot+bpf-ci
2026-10-01 15:20 ` [PATCH v2 09/15] tools/rv: Copy stripped bpf_atomic.h from libarena Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-02  0:42   ` bot+bpf-ci
2026-10-07 12:59   ` Nam Cao
2026-10-08  9:00     ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-08 11:16       ` Nam Cao
2026-10-09 10:09         ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-11  0:43           ` Steven Rostedt
2026-10-12  7:43             ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-01 15:20 ` [PATCH v2 10/15] tools/rv: Add BPF monitors Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-01 15:55   ` sashiko-bot
2026-10-02  0:43   ` bot+bpf-ci
2026-10-06 13:29   ` Alexei Starovoitov
2026-10-08  9:54     ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-16 18:32       ` Alexei Starovoitov
2026-10-16 19:20         ` John Ogness
2026-10-17 10:42           ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-17 15:17             ` John Ogness
2026-10-17 16:09               ` Alexei Starovoitov
2026-10-17 16:56                 ` John Ogness
2026-10-17 23:25                   ` Alexei Starovoitov
2026-10-18 12:10                     ` John Ogness
2026-10-19  9:05                       ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-19  9:27                         ` John Ogness
2026-10-19  9:46                           ` Tomas Glozar
2026-10-19 13:16                           ` Steven Rostedt
2026-10-19 10:01                         ` Tomas Glozar
2026-10-19 10:43                           ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-19 11:05                             ` Tomas Glozar
2026-10-19 12:47                               ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-19 13:05                                 ` Tomas Glozar
2026-10-21  7:26                                   ` Nam Cao
2026-10-19 13:02                               ` John Ogness
2026-10-20  7:29                                 ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-21  8:01                                   ` Nam Cao
2026-10-21 11:54                                     ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-21 13:48                                       ` Steven Rostedt
2026-10-21 15:24                                         ` Gabriele Monaco [this message]
2026-10-21 16:47                                           ` John Ogness
2026-10-19  8:33               ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-19  9:10                 ` John Ogness
2026-10-19 10:48                   ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-19 12:51                   ` Nam Cao
2026-10-19 13:14                     ` John Ogness
2026-10-21  8:13                       ` Nam Cao
2026-10-21  8:46                         ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-21 11:12                           ` Nam Cao
2026-10-21 15:55                             ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-17 10:48         ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-01 15:20 ` [PATCH v2 11/15] tools/rv: Define CONFIG_X86_64 statically for " Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-01 15:49   ` sashiko-bot
2026-10-01 15:20 ` [PATCH v2 12/15] tools/rv: Add reactors support to " Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-01 15:57   ` sashiko-bot
2026-10-02  0:43   ` bot+bpf-ci
2026-10-01 15:20 ` [PATCH v2 13/15] verification/rvgen: Add support for " Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-02  0:25   ` bot+bpf-ci
2026-10-01 15:20 ` [PATCH v2 14/15] tools/rv: Add selftest for rv bpf monitors Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-01 16:03   ` sashiko-bot
2026-10-02  0:43   ` bot+bpf-ci
2026-10-01 15:20 ` [PATCH v2 15/15] verification/rvgen: Add selftest for rvgen -b Gabriele Monaco

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