[PATCH 1/2] Remove definition for surround sound devices on ICE1712.

[PATCH 1/2] Remove definition for surround sound devices on ICE1712.

[Diego E. 'Flameeyes' Pettenò]

The ICE1712-based cards are non-surround cards with only stereo final
output. It's not possible to use them as surround cards, so these devices
don't make sense.

They also don't work since opening those devices with less than the amount
of channels will fail.

Signed-off-by: Diego E. 'Flameeyes' Pettenò <flameeyes@gmail.com>
---
 src/conf/cards/ICE1712.conf |   40 ----------------------------------------
 1 files changed, 0 insertions(+), 40 deletions(-)

diff --git a/src/conf/cards/ICE1712.conf b/src/conf/cards/ICE1712.conf
index 01e50d2..5445920 100644
--- a/src/conf/cards/ICE1712.conf
+++ b/src/conf/cards/ICE1712.conf
@@ -39,46 +39,6 @@ ICE1712.pcm.front.0 {
 		type hw
 		card $CARD
 	}
-}	
-
-<confdir:pcm/surround40.conf>
-
-ICE1712.pcm.surround40.0 {
-	@args [ CARD ]
-	@args.CARD {
-		type string
-	}
-	type route
-	ttable.0.0 1
-	ttable.1.1 1
-	ttable.2.2 1
-	ttable.3.3 1
-	slave.pcm {
-		type hw
-		card $CARD
-	}
-}	
-
-<confdir:pcm/surround41.conf>
-<confdir:pcm/surround50.conf>
-<confdir:pcm/surround51.conf>
-
-ICE1712.pcm.surround51.0 {
-	@args [ CARD ]
-	@args.CARD {
-		type string
-	}
-	type route
-	ttable.0.0 1
-	ttable.1.1 1
-	ttable.2.2 1
-	ttable.3.3 1
-	ttable.4.4 1
-	ttable.5.5 1
-	slave.pcm {
-		type hw
-		card $CARD
-	}
 }
 
 <confdir:pcm/iec958.conf>
-- 
1.6.1

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ICE1712 softdevices fixes

[Diego E. 'Flameeyes' Pettenò]

The following patches fixes the default device as they appear for
ICE1712-based cards. Without this cards, 'aplay -L' will show a series
of devices like surround40 and surround71 that are not meaningful for
this card, and a front device that would not work.

Diego E. 'Flameeyes' Pettenò (2):
      Remove definition for surround sound devices on ICE1712.
      Make the front:idx device work for ICE1712.

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[PATCH 1/2] Remove definition for surround sound devices on ICE1712.

[Diego E. 'Flameeyes' Pettenò]

The ICE1712-based cards are non-surround cards with only stereo final
output. It's not possible to use them as surround cards, so these devices
don't make sense.

They also don't work since opening those devices with less than the amount
of channels will fail.

Signed-off-by: Diego E. 'Flameeyes' Pettenò <flameeyes@gmail.com>
---
 src/conf/cards/ICE1712.conf |   40 ----------------------------------------
 1 files changed, 0 insertions(+), 40 deletions(-)

diff --git a/src/conf/cards/ICE1712.conf b/src/conf/cards/ICE1712.conf
index 01e50d2..5445920 100644
--- a/src/conf/cards/ICE1712.conf
+++ b/src/conf/cards/ICE1712.conf
@@ -39,46 +39,6 @@ ICE1712.pcm.front.0 {
 		type hw
 		card $CARD
 	}
-}	
-
-<confdir:pcm/surround40.conf>
-
-ICE1712.pcm.surround40.0 {
-	@args [ CARD ]
-	@args.CARD {
-		type string
-	}
-	type route
-	ttable.0.0 1
-	ttable.1.1 1
-	ttable.2.2 1
-	ttable.3.3 1
-	slave.pcm {
-		type hw
-		card $CARD
-	}
-}	
-
-<confdir:pcm/surround41.conf>
-<confdir:pcm/surround50.conf>
-<confdir:pcm/surround51.conf>
-
-ICE1712.pcm.surround51.0 {
-	@args [ CARD ]
-	@args.CARD {
-		type string
-	}
-	type route
-	ttable.0.0 1
-	ttable.1.1 1
-	ttable.2.2 1
-	ttable.3.3 1
-	ttable.4.4 1
-	ttable.5.5 1
-	slave.pcm {
-		type hw
-		card $CARD
-	}
 }
 
 <confdir:pcm/iec958.conf>
-- 
1.6.1

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[PATCH 2/2] Make the front:idx device work for ICE1712.

[Diego E. 'Flameeyes' Pettenò]

The default definition of front:idx for ICE1712-based cards didn't work
previously because the route plugin cannot change the number of channels
between the hardware device (with 10 or 12 channels) and the soft-device
(with 2 channels).

Signed-off-by: Diego E. 'Flameeyes' Pettenò <flameeyes@gmail.com>
---
 src/conf/cards/ICE1712.conf |   28 ++++++++++++++++++++++------
 1 files changed, 22 insertions(+), 6 deletions(-)

diff --git a/src/conf/cards/ICE1712.conf b/src/conf/cards/ICE1712.conf
index 5445920..bb93c1d 100644
--- a/src/conf/cards/ICE1712.conf
+++ b/src/conf/cards/ICE1712.conf
@@ -32,12 +32,28 @@ ICE1712.pcm.front.0 {
 	@args.CARD {
 		type string
 	}
-	type route
-	ttable.0.0 1
-	ttable.1.1 1
-	slave.pcm {
-		type hw
-		card $CARD
+	type asym
+	playback.pcm {
+		type route
+		ttable.0.0 1
+		ttable.1.1 1
+		slave.pcm {
+			type hw
+			card $CARD
+		}
+		slave.format S32_LE
+		slave.channels 10
+	}
+	capture.pcm {
+		type route
+		ttable.0.8 1
+		ttable.1.9 1
+		slave.pcm {
+			type hw
+			card $CARD
+		}
+		slave.format S32_LE
+		slave.channels 12
 	}
 }
 
-- 
1.6.1

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Re: [PATCH 1/2] Remove definition for surround sound devices on ICE1712.

[Jaroslav Kysela]

On Tue, 20 Jan 2009, Diego E. 'Flameeyes' Petten? wrote:

> The ICE1712-based cards are non-surround cards with only stereo final
> output. It's not possible to use them as surround cards, so these 
> devices don't make sense.

ICE1712 has 8 independent outputs, so why surround definitions do not 
make sense?

> They also don't work since opening those devices with less than the 
> amount of channels will fail.

Probably slave.pcm.channels definition is missing? But I wonder why it 
does not work automatically.

					Jaroslav

-----
Jaroslav Kysela <perex@perex.cz>
Linux Kernel Sound Maintainer
ALSA Project, Red Hat, Inc.

Re: [PATCH 1/2] Remove definition for surround sound devices on ICE1712.

[Diego E. 'Flameeyes' Pettenò]

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Jaroslav Kysela <perex@perex.cz> writes:

> ICE1712 has 8 independent outputs, so why surround definitions do not 
> make sense?

Because ICE1712-based cards have, physically, two RCA and one S/PDIF
jacks for input, and the same amount for output.

-- 
Diego "Flameeyes" Pettenò
http://blog.flameeyes.eu/

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Re: [PATCH 1/2] Remove definition for surround sound devices on ICE1712.

[Jaroslav Kysela]

On Tue, 20 Jan 2009, Diego E. 'Flameeyes' Petten? wrote:

> Jaroslav Kysela <perex@perex.cz> writes:
> 
> > ICE1712 has 8 independent outputs, so why surround definitions do not 
> > make sense?
> 
> Because ICE1712-based cards have, physically, two RCA and one S/PDIF
> jacks for input, and the same amount for output.

Do you have seen M-Audio Delta 1010 ? The problem is that we have hardware 
that can be used for surround output, but alsa-lib configuration files 
cannot describe the restrictions in detail now.

					Jaroslav

-----
Jaroslav Kysela <perex@perex.cz>
Linux Kernel Sound Maintainer
ALSA Project, Red Hat, Inc.

Re: [PATCH 1/2] Remove definition for surround sound devices on ICE1712.

[Diego E. 'Flameeyes' Pettenò]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1005 bytes --]

Jaroslav Kysela <perex@perex.cz> writes:

> Do you have seen M-Audio Delta 1010 ? The problem is that we have hardware 
> that can be used for surround output, but alsa-lib configuration files 
> cannot describe the restrictions in detail now.

I thought that was an ICE1724, rather than 1712; I was mistaken, sorry.

Still, as they are the devices are non-functional at least on my card,
and I'm ready to bet that the same would happen on the Delta 1010 given
that the number of channels is not coherent (you try to open surround71
as 8-channels and it'll fail because this minimal card has 10; if the
1010 has the same amount of channels, it'll still fail).

Maybe there's a way to describe different ICE1712-based cards with
different configuration files so that the surround device appears only
on surround-capable cards? Or let the user decide whether to load them?

Having them present and failing is not really nice.

-- 
Diego "Flameeyes" Pettenò
http://blog.flameeyes.eu/

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Re: [PATCH 1/2] Remove definition for surround sound devices on ICE1712.

[Alan Horstmann]

On Tuesday 20 January 2009 13:49, Diego E. 'Flameeyes' Pettenò wrote:
> Jaroslav Kysela <perex@perex.cz> writes:
> > Do you have seen M-Audio Delta 1010 ?

Or DMX6fire, or Hoontech/ST.Audio dsp2000, or rest of a list... It seems to me 
that only a few cut-down card versions have only 2 analogue in/out.

> Still, as they are the devices are non-functional at least on my card,
> and I'm ready to bet that the same would happen on the Delta 1010 given
> that the number of channels is not coherent (you try to open surround71
> as 8-channels and it'll fail because this minimal card has 10; if the
> 1010 has the same amount of channels, it'll still fail).

Here (on a rather old Alsa version)  on DMX6fire:

aplay -Dfront try1.wav

does fail unless try1.wav is a 10-channel file, whereupon just the first 2 
channels play out.  A standard stereo wav file fails with a sample format 
error.  So there is something not quite right with the config files.

Does the surround and front both need the asym slave.format & slave.channels 
definitions?  Right now I can't do further testing; maybe later.

Alan

Re: [PATCH 1/2] Remove definition for surround sound devices on ICE1712.

[Jaroslav Kysela]

On Tue, 20 Jan 2009, Alan Horstmann wrote:

> On Tuesday 20 January 2009 13:49, Diego E. 'Flameeyes' Petten? wrote:
> > Jaroslav Kysela <perex@perex.cz> writes:
> > > Do you have seen M-Audio Delta 1010 ?
> 
> Or DMX6fire, or Hoontech/ST.Audio dsp2000, or rest of a list... It seems to me 
> that only a few cut-down card versions have only 2 analogue in/out.
> 
> > Still, as they are the devices are non-functional at least on my card,
> > and I'm ready to bet that the same would happen on the Delta 1010 given
> > that the number of channels is not coherent (you try to open surround71
> > as 8-channels and it'll fail because this minimal card has 10; if the
> > 1010 has the same amount of channels, it'll still fail).
> 
> Here (on a rather old Alsa version)  on DMX6fire:
> 
> aplay -Dfront try1.wav
> 
> does fail unless try1.wav is a 10-channel file, whereupon just the first 2 
> channels play out.  A standard stereo wav file fails with a sample format 
> error.  So there is something not quite right with the config files.

Note that front and surround devices does not support automatic sample 
conversion. Use plug:front, plug:surround40 etc. devices.

					Jaroslav

-----
Jaroslav Kysela <perex@perex.cz>
Linux Kernel Sound Maintainer
ALSA Project, Red Hat, Inc.

Re: [PATCH 1/2] Remove definition for surround sound devices on ICE1712.

[Diego E. 'Flameeyes' Pettenò]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 483 bytes --]

Jaroslav Kysela <perex@perex.cz> writes:

> Note that front and surround devices does not support automatic sample 
> conversion. Use plug:front, plug:surround40 etc. devices.

Using the correct format, front:IDX should work with two channels sound
files, and it doesn't, nor surround40:IDX works with four channels or
surround71:IDX with eight channels.

[I'm using IDX because I have it on :1 rather than :0]

-- 
Diego "Flameeyes" Pettenò
http://blog.flameeyes.eu/

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Re: [PATCH 1/2] Remove definition for surround sound devices on ICE1712.

[Takashi Iwai]

At Tue, 20 Jan 2009 17:33:24 +0100,
Diego E. 'Flameeyes' Pettenò wrote:
> 
> Jaroslav Kysela <perex@perex.cz> writes:
> 
> > Note that front and surround devices does not support automatic sample 
> > conversion. Use plug:front, plug:surround40 etc. devices.
> 
> Using the correct format, front:IDX should work with two channels sound
> files, and it doesn't, nor surround40:IDX works with four channels or
> surround71:IDX with eight channels.
> 
> [I'm using IDX because I have it on :1 rather than :0]

I thought plug:front:IDX works, at least on 1.0.19, too...


Takashi

Re: [PATCH 1/2] Remove definition for surround sound devices on ICE1712.

[Takashi Iwai]

At Wed, 21 Jan 2009 16:45:29 +0000,
Alan Horstmann wrote:
> 
> On Wednesday 21 January 2009 10:00, Takashi Iwai wrote:
> > At Tue, 20 Jan 2009 17:33:24 +0100,
> >
> > Diego E. 'Flameeyes' Pettenò wrote:
> > > Jaroslav Kysela <perex@perex.cz> writes:
> > > > Note that front and surround devices does not support automatic sample
> > > > conversion. Use plug:front, plug:surround40 etc. devices.
> > >
> > > Using the correct format, front:IDX should work with two channels sound
> > > files, and it doesn't, nor surround40:IDX works with four channels or
> > > surround71:IDX with eight channels.
> > >
> > > [I'm using IDX because I have it on :1 rather than :0]
> >
> > I thought plug:front:IDX works, at least on 1.0.19, too...
> 
> It does work here on older Alsa.

But, if it works with the latest version code, it makes no sense to
fix the config of that tree.  We aren't changing the old tree now.

> I think Diego's point though is that 'surround40:IDX' might be expected to be 
> a 4-channel stream, whereas it is as dependant on the hardware as 'hw:IDX' 
> is.  In the later case it is clear that the user must provide audio in 
> whatever format/channels the hardware uses.  However it is unexpected that eg 
> on ice1712 'surround40:IDX' requires a 10-channel playback stream and ignores 
> 6 of them, and will not play a 4-channel stream.
> 
> It is also not symetrical, so if you capture it has to be a 12-channel stream, 
> which it is then not possible to play without using the plug: devices.
> 
> Unless I am mistaken...

Right, ice1712 is tricky as is.  I myself feel having plug inside the
front, etc, definitions would be more intuitive.  However, the plug
over plug doesn't (didn't? -- need checks) work.  And, the definition
should be as slim as possible.  These are counter arguments.


Takashi

Re: [PATCH 1/2] Remove definition for surround sound devices on ICE1712.

[Alan Horstmann]

On Wednesday 21 January 2009 10:00, Takashi Iwai wrote:
> At Tue, 20 Jan 2009 17:33:24 +0100,
>
> Diego E. 'Flameeyes' Pettenò wrote:
> > Jaroslav Kysela <perex@perex.cz> writes:
> > > Note that front and surround devices does not support automatic sample
> > > conversion. Use plug:front, plug:surround40 etc. devices.
> >
> > Using the correct format, front:IDX should work with two channels sound
> > files, and it doesn't, nor surround40:IDX works with four channels or
> > surround71:IDX with eight channels.
> >
> > [I'm using IDX because I have it on :1 rather than :0]
>
> I thought plug:front:IDX works, at least on 1.0.19, too...

It does work here on older Alsa.

I think Diego's point though is that 'surround40:IDX' might be expected to be 
a 4-channel stream, whereas it is as dependant on the hardware as 'hw:IDX' 
is.  In the later case it is clear that the user must provide audio in 
whatever format/channels the hardware uses.  However it is unexpected that eg 
on ice1712 'surround40:IDX' requires a 10-channel playback stream and ignores 
6 of them, and will not play a 4-channel stream.

It is also not symetrical, so if you capture it has to be a 12-channel stream, 
which it is then not possible to play without using the plug: devices.

Unless I am mistaken...

Alan

Re: [PATCH 1/2] Remove definition for surround sound devices on ICE1712.

[John Rigg]

 On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 02:49:53PM +0100, Diego E. 'Flameeyes' Pettenò wrote:
 > Jaroslav Kysela <perex@perex.cz> writes:
 > 
 > > Do you have seen M-Audio Delta 1010 ? The problem is that we have hardware 
 > > that can be used for surround output, but alsa-lib configuration files 
 > > cannot describe the restrictions in detail now.
 > 
 > I thought that was an ICE1724, rather than 1712; I was mistaken, sorry.
 > 
 > Still, as they are the devices are non-functional at least on my card,
 > and I'm ready to bet that the same would happen on the Delta 1010 given
 > that the number of channels is not coherent (you try to open surround71
 > as 8-channels and it'll fail because this minimal card has 10; if the
 > 1010 has the same amount of channels, it'll still fail).
 
 The ice1712 has 12 inputs and 10 outputs, regardless of how
 many physical in/outs your card has.
 
 Most of the ice1712 interfaces I've seen have 8 analogue in/outs
 along with S/PDIF in/out. I can't think of many stereo-only
 ice1712 cards (apart from the Audiophile 2496).
 
 John

Re: [PATCH 1/2] Remove definition for surround sound devices on ICE1712.

[Alan Horstmann]

On Wednesday 21 January 2009 16:33, you wrote:
> At Wed, 21 Jan 2009 16:45:29 +0000,
> Alan Horstmann wrote:
> > On Wednesday 21 January 2009 10:00, Takashi Iwai wrote:
> > > At Tue, 20 Jan 2009 17:33:24 +0100,
> > > Diego E. 'Flameeyes' Pettenò wrote:
> > > > Using the correct format, front:IDX should work with two channels
> > > > sound files, and it doesn't, nor surround40:IDX works with four
> > > > channels or surround71:IDX with eight channels.

<snip>

> > I think Diego's point though is that 'surround40:IDX' might be expected
> > to be a 4-channel stream, whereas it is as dependant on the hardware as
> > 'hw:IDX' is.  In the later case it is clear that the user must provide
> > audio in whatever format/channels the hardware uses.  However it is
> > unexpected that eg on ice1712 'surround40:IDX' requires a 10-channel
> > playback stream and ignores 6 of them, and will not play a 4-channel
> > stream.
> >
> > It is also not symetrical, so if you capture it has to be a 12-channel
> > stream, which it is then not possible to play without using the plug:
> > devices.
> >
> > Unless I am mistaken...
>
> Right, ice1712 is tricky as is.  I myself feel having plug inside the
> front, etc, definitions would be more intuitive.  However, the plug
> over plug doesn't (didn't? -- need checks) work.  And, the definition
> should be as slim as possible.  These are counter arguments.

It may be that you want to drop this completely, but I have done a little more 
testing and thinking, in case not.

The purpose of the 'front', 'surround' etc definitions is presumably to 
provide pre-configured routing to certain standard outputs where this is 
possible with the card hardware.  Therefore it seems reasonable for the user 
to expect channel number conversion to be handled by these devices, as 
Diego's original proposal for 'front'.  One might augue the format conversion 
should not be included since that really is the job of 'plug:front'.

In the case of ice1712 it is particularly useful due to the asymmetry of 
channels playback and capture.  That raises another question -what is the 
meaning of capture from a device such as 'surround'?  Would anyone want to do 
it and what would they expect (stereo/4-channel)?  Should the devices be 
playback only?  Capture would be very dependant on the specific board.  Is 
there any way to handle different conf files dependant on different ice1712 
cards?

I have tested a modified ICE1712.conf with front definition similar to 
Diego's, essentially:-

	type asym
	playback.pcm {
		type route
		ttable.0.0 1
		ttable.1.1 1
		slave.pcm {
			type hw
			card $CARD
		}
		slave.channels 10
	}
	capture.pcm {
		type route
		ttable.0.0 1
		ttable.1.1 1
		slave.pcm {
			type hw
			card $CARD
		}
		slave.channels 12
	}

and can confirm playback of files with various channel numbers is possible 
fine.  Also, plug:front in this case still works fine.

I wondered what your thoughts are on this?

Alan