[LARTC] About HTB , bandwidth limiting for ftp port...

[LARTC] About HTB , bandwidth limiting for ftp port...

[Dhirendra Pal Singh]

Hi All,
I have a quesiton on bandwidth limiting done by HTB to be specific.

Okay now I put on a rule for FTP port 21 for 100Kbps. Now when I am 
retriving data from ftp server I think the port is different when doing 
passive ftp transfer. If I am not wrong then a new dynamic port is sent 
by the ftp server to the client.. and then client initiates a new 
connection on that port and then the real ftp data transfer happens.

My Question is : Now when limiting the bandwidht will htb limit that 
data transfer(i.e. the real file transfer) also under 100Kbps or will 
that data transfer be not at all affected by the rule..?

Just a novice question.. but please guide me...

Thanks in Advance..
Dp


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Re: [LARTC] About HTB , bandwidth limiting for ftp port...

[Martin A. Brown]

Hi there Dhirendra,

 : Okay now I put on a rule for FTP port 21 for 100Kbps. Now when I am
 : retriving data from ftp server I think the port is different when doing
 : passive ftp transfer. If I am not wrong then a new dynamic port is sent
 : by the ftp server to the client.. and then client initiates a new
 : connection on that port and then the real ftp data transfer happens.

Yes.  I think FTP should be summarily executed.  It has been plaguing us
since the beginnings of firewalls and NAT.  Sadly, another spiritually
impoverished but well-known operating system has two basic options for
file transfer:  HTTP ("the Internet", of course!), and FTP (for experts!).
Of course, on the other side of the divide, people (ab)use ssh for all
sorts of nefarious purposes.......  (anybody remember a recent article in
some print periodical detailing NFS over ssh?)

There has been discussion on the question of FTP (port/passive) and
shaping on this list in the past.  Here are some links.

See the following threads:

  http://mailman.ds9a.nl/pipermail/lartc/2001q3/001473.html
  http://mailman.ds9a.nl/pipermail/lartc/2002q1/002388.html
  http://mailman.ds9a.nl/pipermail/lartc/2003q1/007498.html

See also Eric Leblond's description of usage:

  http://home.regit.org/connmark.html

 : My Question is : Now when limiting the bandwidht will htb limit that
 : data transfer(i.e. the real file transfer) also under 100Kbps or will
 : that data transfer be not at all affected by the rule..?

That depends entirely on how you use the tools above.  Take a look at Eric
Lelond's description, and let us know if you are successful.

 : Just a novice question.. but please guide me...

This question is in exactly the right forum, and I'm quite sure I wouldn't
call it a novice question....though it might well belong in that rumoured
FAQ.

Good luck,

-Martin

-- 
Martin A. Brown --- SecurePipe, Inc. --- mabrown@securepipe.com

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Re: [LARTC] About HTB , bandwidth limiting for ftp port...

[Jack Bowling]

** Reply to message from "Martin A. Brown" <mabrown-lartc@securepipe.com> on Thu, 13 Mar 2003 20:37:33 -0600 (CST)

> Hi there Dhirendra,
> 
>  : Okay now I put on a rule for FTP port 21 for 100Kbps. Now when I am
>  : retriving data from ftp server I think the port is different when doing
>  : passive ftp transfer. If I am not wrong then a new dynamic port is sent
>  : by the ftp server to the client.. and then client initiates a new
>  : connection on that port and then the real ftp data transfer happens.
> 
> Yes.  I think FTP should be summarily executed.  It has been plaguing us
> since the beginnings of firewalls and NAT.  Sadly, another spiritually
> impoverished but well-known operating system has two basic options for
> file transfer:  HTTP ("the Internet", of course!), and FTP (for experts!).
> Of course, on the other side of the divide, people (ab)use ssh for all
> sorts of nefarious purposes.......  (anybody remember a recent article in
> some print periodical detailing NFS over ssh?)
<snip>

Not trying to be argumentative or start a useless tangential thread here, but none other than Frank da Cruz provides his reason why he thinks ftp is better than ssh/scp at the following link:

http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ftpclient.html

Note he is coming at this as the developer of the most capable comm program ever.

jb

--
Jack Bowling                mailto:jbinpg@shaw.ca
Prince George, BC
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Re: [LARTC] About HTB , bandwidth limiting for ftp port...

[Dhirendra Pal Singh]

Hi Martin,

First of all thanks for the info.
Now among all the links you have sent I think, the one which says about 
using the helper and mark the packets will be the one which will best do 
the job.

So I think what you are pointing to, is that mark all the ftp packets 
(control and data) with a specific mark and then do bandwidth policies 
on the basis of that mark.. is that right Martin?

Also I ran ethereal for further analysis. To my surprise ethereal showed 
FTP-DATA in front of the data which is captured by it duing ftp 
transactions.? Any idea how did ethereal found that out ??

Thanks for helping and anticipation
Dp

PS.. In one of my previous querries you had asked about the idea of FAQ. 
I am totally for it...


Martin A. Brown wrote:

>Hi there Dhirendra,
>
> : Okay now I put on a rule for FTP port 21 for 100Kbps. Now when I am
> : retriving data from ftp server I think the port is different when doing
> : passive ftp transfer. If I am not wrong then a new dynamic port is sent
> : by the ftp server to the client.. and then client initiates a new
> : connection on that port and then the real ftp data transfer happens.
>
>Yes.  I think FTP should be summarily executed.  It has been plaguing us
>since the beginnings of firewalls and NAT.  Sadly, another spiritually
>impoverished but well-known operating system has two basic options for
>file transfer:  HTTP ("the Internet", of course!), and FTP (for experts!).
>Of course, on the other side of the divide, people (ab)use ssh for all
>sorts of nefarious purposes.......  (anybody remember a recent article in
>some print periodical detailing NFS over ssh?)
>
>There has been discussion on the question of FTP (port/passive) and
>shaping on this list in the past.  Here are some links.
>
>See the following threads:
>
>  http://mailman.ds9a.nl/pipermail/lartc/2001q3/001473.html
>  http://mailman.ds9a.nl/pipermail/lartc/2002q1/002388.html
>  http://mailman.ds9a.nl/pipermail/lartc/2003q1/007498.html
>
>See also Eric Leblond's description of usage:
>
>  http://home.regit.org/connmark.html
>
> : My Question is : Now when limiting the bandwidht will htb limit that
> : data transfer(i.e. the real file transfer) also under 100Kbps or will
> : that data transfer be not at all affected by the rule..?
>
>That depends entirely on how you use the tools above.  Take a look at Eric
>Lelond's description, and let us know if you are successful.
>
> : Just a novice question.. but please guide me...
>
>This question is in exactly the right forum, and I'm quite sure I wouldn't
>call it a novice question....though it might well belong in that rumoured
>FAQ.
>
>Good luck,
>
>-Martin
>
>  
>


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Re: [LARTC] About HTB , bandwidth limiting for ftp port...

[Stef Coene]

On Friday 14 March 2003 05:19, Dhirendra Pal Singh wrote:
> Hi Martin,
>
> First of all thanks for the info.
> Now among all the links you have sent I think, the one which says about
> using the helper and mark the packets will be the one which will best do
> the job.
>
> So I think what you are pointing to, is that mark all the ftp packets
> (control and data) with a specific mark and then do bandwidth policies
> on the basis of that mark.. is that right Martin?
>
> Also I ran ethereal for further analysis. To my surprise ethereal showed
> FTP-DATA in front of the data which is captured by it duing ftp
> transactions.? Any idea how did ethereal found that out ??
>
> Thanks for helping and anticipation
> Dp
>
> PS.. In one of my previous querries you had asked about the idea of FAQ.
> I am totally for it...
I covered the subject on www.docum.org on the faq page :)

Stef

-- 

stef.coene@docum.org
 "Using Linux as bandwidth manager"
     http://www.docum.org/
     #lartc @ irc.oftc.net

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Re: [LARTC] About HTB , bandwidth limiting for ftp port...

[Dhirendra Pal Singh]

Hi Stef,
I did check on docum or org specially the FAQ but couldnt find anything.
http://www.docum.org/stef.coene/qos/docs/ was the link I searched.

If you  could please send me the link, it would be great.


Thanks in advance
Dp


Stef Coene wrote:

>On Friday 14 March 2003 05:19, Dhirendra Pal Singh wrote:
>  
>
>>Hi Martin,
>>
>>First of all thanks for the info.
>>Now among all the links you have sent I think, the one which says about
>>using the helper and mark the packets will be the one which will best do
>>the job.
>>
>>So I think what you are pointing to, is that mark all the ftp packets
>>(control and data) with a specific mark and then do bandwidth policies
>>on the basis of that mark.. is that right Martin?
>>
>>Also I ran ethereal for further analysis. To my surprise ethereal showed
>>FTP-DATA in front of the data which is captured by it duing ftp
>>transactions.? Any idea how did ethereal found that out ??
>>
>>Thanks for helping and anticipation
>>Dp
>>
>>PS.. In one of my previous querries you had asked about the idea of FAQ.
>>I am totally for it...
>>    
>>
>I covered the subject on www.docum.org on the faq page :)
>
>Stef
>
>  
>


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Re: [LARTC] About HTB , bandwidth limiting for ftp port...

[Stef Coene]

On Saturday 15 March 2003 01:16, Dhirendra Pal Singh wrote:
> Hi Stef,
> I did check on docum or org specially the FAQ but couldnt find anything.
> http://www.docum.org/stef.coene/qos/docs/ was the link I searched.
>
> If you  could please send me the link, it would be great.
Go to www.docum.org and click on faq in the left frame.  It's the last entry 
in the list.  But I only added a link to an external page for more 
information.

Stef

-- 

stef.coene@docum.org
 "Using Linux as bandwidth manager"
     http://www.docum.org/
     #lartc @ irc.oftc.net

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