YMF754 with front & rear output?

YMF754 with front & rear output?

[Adam K Kirchhoff]

I'm curious if anyone has gotten one of the ymfpci cards to work with
front and rear output with the OSS emulation?  Is it even supported at
this point?

Adam




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Re: YMF754 with front & rear output?

[Takashi Iwai]

At Mon, 18 Feb 2002 22:45:07 EST (-0500),
Adam K Kirchhoff wrote:
> 
> 
> I'm curious if anyone has gotten one of the ymfpci cards to work with
> 
> front and rear output with the OSS emulation?  Is it even supported at
> 
> this point?

(please note i myself didn't test the following:)

the rear pcm assigned to device #2.  so at first please check whether
the driver really supports rear speakers by playing via hw:0,2, i.e.

	% aplay -Dhw:0,2 foo.wav

if it's ok, please try to add the following option to snd-pcm-oss:

	options snd-pcm-oss snd_adsp_map=2

so that hw:0,2 is mapped to /dev/adsp.

The another possibility is to use ALSA OSS wrapper library.
You can define like this in your ~/.asoundrc

	pcm.adsp0 pcm.rear

then run program via aoss wrapper.


ciao,

Takashi

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Re: YMF754 with front & rear output?

[Adam K Kirchhoff]

On Wed, 20 Feb 2002, Takashi Iwai wrote:

> At Mon, 18 Feb 2002 22:45:07 EST (-0500),
> Adam K Kirchhoff wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > I'm curious if anyone has gotten one of the ymfpci cards to work with
> > 
> > front and rear output with the OSS emulation?  Is it even supported at
> > 
> > this point?
> 
> (please note i myself didn't test the following:)
> 
> the rear pcm assigned to device #2.  so at first please check whether
> the driver really supports rear speakers by playing via hw:0,2, i.e.

It does....  Alsa has natively supported both the front and rear channels
for a number of months now, iirc.

> 	% aplay -Dhw:0,2 foo.wav

Yep.  That works fine.

One of the first things I'm noticing now, however, is that the only Alsa
application that seems to use the rear speakers is aplay, and only when
specified.  For example, alsaplayer will still only use the front
speakers.

Now, is this something that needs to be set up in the .asoundrc file?  Is
this documented somewhere?

> if it's ok, please try to add the following option to snd-pcm-oss:
> 
> 	options snd-pcm-oss snd_adsp_map=2
> 
> so that hw:0,2 is mapped to /dev/adsp.

Done.  But what exactly does this give me :-)  I hate to seem like an
idiot, but my only other experience with the alsa drivers is with a SB
Live! With the SB Live!, you don't need to take any extra steps to get
both the front and rear channels working.  I certainly don't remember
having to setup anything for /dev/adsp :-)

I see a couple references to adsp in the alsa-howto, but nothing that
really explains how to set it up and use it :-)

> The another possibility is to use ALSA OSS wrapper library.
> You can define like this in your ~/.asoundrc
> 
> 	pcm.adsp0 pcm.rear
> 
> then run program via aoss wrapper.

Is this documented somewhere, too?  Searching for "aoss wrapper" in google
doesn't turn up anything, and the search mechanism on the Alsa homepage
seems to be broken (someone might want to remove it till it gets fixed)
:-) 

Sorry if I'm coming off as ignorant, but this is the one area where the
OSS ymf drivers are superiour to the Alsa drivers, and I'd love to be able
to get it working so I can stop having to switch back and forth between
the two :-)

Adam



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Re: YMF754 with front & rear output?

[Takashi Iwai]

At Wed, 20 Feb 2002 08:50:23 -0500 (EST),
Adam K Kirchhoff wrote:
> 
> 
> On Wed, 20 Feb 2002, Takashi Iwai wrote:
> 
> > At Mon, 18 Feb 2002 22:45:07 EST (-0500),
> > Adam K Kirchhoff wrote:
> > > 
> > > 
> > > I'm curious if anyone has gotten one of the ymfpci cards to work with
> > > 
> > > front and rear output with the OSS emulation?  Is it even supported at
> > > 
> > > this point?
> > 
> > (please note i myself didn't test the following:)
> > 
> > the rear pcm assigned to device #2.  so at first please check whether
> > the driver really supports rear speakers by playing via hw:0,2, i.e.
> 
> It does....  Alsa has natively supported both the front and rear channels
> for a number of months now, iirc.
> 
> > 	% aplay -Dhw:0,2 foo.wav
> 
> Yep.  That works fine.
> 
> One of the first things I'm noticing now, however, is that the only Alsa
> application that seems to use the rear speakers is aplay, and only when
> specified.  For example, alsaplayer will still only use the front
> speakers.
 
it's a problem of alsaplayer.  doesn't work "alsaplayer -d hw:0,2" ?

> Now, is this something that needs to be set up in the .asoundrc file?  Is
> this documented somewhere?

no, you don't need to edit asoundrc.
to the latter question - again - no.  no documents, so far.
 
> > if it's ok, please try to add the following option to snd-pcm-oss:
> > 
> > 	options snd-pcm-oss snd_adsp_map=2
> > 
> > so that hw:0,2 is mapped to /dev/adsp.
> 
> Done.  But what exactly does this give me :-)  I hate to seem like an
> idiot, but my only other experience with the alsa drivers is with a SB
> Live! With the SB Live!, you don't need to take any extra steps to get
> both the front and rear channels working.  I certainly don't remember
> having to setup anything for /dev/adsp :-)
 
hmm, i'm not sure whether sb live supports rear outputs on OSS
emulation mode..  does it?


> I see a couple references to adsp in the alsa-howto, but nothing that
> really explains how to set it up and use it :-)
 
well, this is also not documented.
i'm going to write a brief note later.


> > The another possibility is to use ALSA OSS wrapper library.
> > You can define like this in your ~/.asoundrc
> > 
> > 	pcm.adsp0 pcm.rear
> > 
> > then run program via aoss wrapper.
> 
> Is this documented somewhere, too?  Searching for "aoss wrapper" in google
> doesn't turn up anything, and the search mechanism on the Alsa homepage
> seems to be broken (someone might want to remove it till it gets fixed)
> :-) 
 
it's included in alsa-oss package.  aoss is a very small wrapper
script.  there is a man page, so please refer to it.

and, i should answer before you ask; the usage of alsa-oss lib is also
almost undocumented :-<


Takashi

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Re: YMF754 with front & rear output?

[Adam K Kirchhoff]

On Wed, 20 Feb 2002, Takashi Iwai wrote:

> At Wed, 20 Feb 2002 08:50:23 -0500 (EST),
> Adam K Kirchhoff wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > On Wed, 20 Feb 2002, Takashi Iwai wrote:
> > 
> > > At Mon, 18 Feb 2002 22:45:07 EST (-0500),
> > > Adam K Kirchhoff wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > I'm curious if anyone has gotten one of the ymfpci cards to work with
> > > > 
> > > > front and rear output with the OSS emulation?  Is it even supported at
> > > > 
> > > > this point?
> > > 
> > > (please note i myself didn't test the following:)
> > > 
> > > the rear pcm assigned to device #2.  so at first please check whether
> > > the driver really supports rear speakers by playing via hw:0,2, i.e.
> > 
> > It does....  Alsa has natively supported both the front and rear channels
> > for a number of months now, iirc.
> > 
> > > 	% aplay -Dhw:0,2 foo.wav
> > 
> > Yep.  That works fine.
> > 
> > One of the first things I'm noticing now, however, is that the only Alsa
> > application that seems to use the rear speakers is aplay, and only when
> > specified.  For example, alsaplayer will still only use the front
> > speakers.
>  
> it's a problem of alsaplayer.  doesn't work "alsaplayer -d hw:0,2" ?

Good question...  That's something I haven't tried.  I'll give it a shot
when I get home.  

However, here's the thing...  alsaplayer uses both the front and rear
outputs with the SB Live! by default.  No need to specify one or the
other.

Now, I understand that since so many more people have SB Live! cards
driver development obviously isn't going to focus on the ymfpci cards as
much, but I'm curious if this is something that can eventually be enabled?
Is it an issue with the yamaha hardware?

> > Now, is this something that needs to be set up in the .asoundrc file?  Is
> > this documented somewhere?
> 
> no, you don't need to edit asoundrc.
> to the latter question - again - no.  no documents, so far.
>  
> > > if it's ok, please try to add the following option to snd-pcm-oss:
> > > 
> > > 	options snd-pcm-oss snd_adsp_map=2
> > > 
> > > so that hw:0,2 is mapped to /dev/adsp.
> > 
> > Done.  But what exactly does this give me :-)  I hate to seem like an
> > idiot, but my only other experience with the alsa drivers is with a SB
> > Live! With the SB Live!, you don't need to take any extra steps to get
> > both the front and rear channels working.  I certainly don't remember
> > having to setup anything for /dev/adsp :-)
>  
> hmm, i'm not sure whether sb live supports rear outputs on OSS
> emulation mode..  does it?

Yes.  Every OSS application I've come across (games, video players, audio
players, sound editing apps, etc.) is able to use the front and rear
outputs at the same time, with the Alsa SB Live drivers, without any extra
configuration :-)

> > I see a couple references to adsp in the alsa-howto, but nothing that
> > really explains how to set it up and use it :-)
>  
> well, this is also not documented.
> i'm going to write a brief note later.
> 
> 
> > > The another possibility is to use ALSA OSS wrapper library.
> > > You can define like this in your ~/.asoundrc
> > > 
> > > 	pcm.adsp0 pcm.rear
> > > 
> > > then run program via aoss wrapper.
> > 
> > Is this documented somewhere, too?  Searching for "aoss wrapper" in google
> > doesn't turn up anything, and the search mechanism on the Alsa homepage
> > seems to be broken (someone might want to remove it till it gets fixed)
> > :-) 
>  
> it's included in alsa-oss package.  aoss is a very small wrapper
> script.  there is a man page, so please refer to it.

Cool.  I'll take a look when I get home.

> and, i should answer before you ask; the usage of alsa-oss lib is also
> almost undocumented :-<

lol.  I wasn't going to ask...

I have no objection to working on any of this documentation but, of
course, I'd need to understand how these things work in the first place
:-)  I haven't taken a very close look, but is the source code documented
well enough to understand these issues?

Adam


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Re: YMF754 with front & rear output?

[Jaroslav Kysela]

On Wed, 20 Feb 2002, Adam K Kirchhoff wrote:

>
> On Wed, 20 Feb 2002, Takashi Iwai wrote:
>
> > At Wed, 20 Feb 2002 08:50:23 -0500 (EST),
> > Adam K Kirchhoff wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, 20 Feb 2002, Takashi Iwai wrote:
> > >
> > > > At Mon, 18 Feb 2002 22:45:07 EST (-0500),
> > > > Adam K Kirchhoff wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm curious if anyone has gotten one of the ymfpci cards to work with
> > > > >
> > > > > front and rear output with the OSS emulation?  Is it even supported at
> > > > >
> > > > > this point?
> > > >
> > > > (please note i myself didn't test the following:)
> > > >
> > > > the rear pcm assigned to device #2.  so at first please check whether
> > > > the driver really supports rear speakers by playing via hw:0,2, i.e.
> > >
> > > It does....  Alsa has natively supported both the front and rear channels
> > > for a number of months now, iirc.
> > >
> > > > 	% aplay -Dhw:0,2 foo.wav
> > >
> > > Yep.  That works fine.
> > >
> > > One of the first things I'm noticing now, however, is that the only Alsa
> > > application that seems to use the rear speakers is aplay, and only when
> > > specified.  For example, alsaplayer will still only use the front
> > > speakers.
> >
> > it's a problem of alsaplayer.  doesn't work "alsaplayer -d hw:0,2" ?
>
> Good question...  That's something I haven't tried.  I'll give it a shot
> when I get home.
>
> However, here's the thing...  alsaplayer uses both the front and rear
> outputs with the SB Live! by default.  No need to specify one or the
> other.
>
> Now, I understand that since so many more people have SB Live! cards
> driver development obviously isn't going to focus on the ymfpci cards as
> much, but I'm curious if this is something that can eventually be enabled?
> Is it an issue with the yamaha hardware?

Yamaha hardware has some contraints. The signal route for rear speakers is
shared with the S/PDIF path, so you cannot use them at same time
simultaneously. It's no problem for us to add a new control for the rear
device (hw:0,2) which can control front speakers as well. We can also
invert hw:0,2 and hw:0,0 after that change, so the default working mode
will be "use front & rear speakers".

						Jaroslav

-----
Jaroslav Kysela <perex@suse.cz>
Linux Kernel Sound Maintainer
ALSA Project  http://www.alsa-project.org
SuSE Linux    http://www.suse.com


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Re: YMF754 with front & rear output?

[Adam K Kirchhoff]

On Wed, 20 Feb 2002, Jaroslav Kysela wrote:

> On Wed, 20 Feb 2002, Adam K Kirchhoff wrote:
> 
> >
> > On Wed, 20 Feb 2002, Takashi Iwai wrote:
> >
> > > At Wed, 20 Feb 2002 08:50:23 -0500 (EST),
> > > Adam K Kirchhoff wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, 20 Feb 2002, Takashi Iwai wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > At Mon, 18 Feb 2002 22:45:07 EST (-0500),
> > > > > Adam K Kirchhoff wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm curious if anyone has gotten one of the ymfpci cards to work with
> > > > > >
> > > > > > front and rear output with the OSS emulation?  Is it even supported at
> > > > > >
> > > > > > this point?
> > > > >
> > > > > (please note i myself didn't test the following:)
> > > > >
> > > > > the rear pcm assigned to device #2.  so at first please check whether
> > > > > the driver really supports rear speakers by playing via hw:0,2, i.e.
> > > >
> > > > It does....  Alsa has natively supported both the front and rear channels
> > > > for a number of months now, iirc.
> > > >
> > > > > 	% aplay -Dhw:0,2 foo.wav
> > > >
> > > > Yep.  That works fine.
> > > >
> > > > One of the first things I'm noticing now, however, is that the only Alsa
> > > > application that seems to use the rear speakers is aplay, and only when
> > > > specified.  For example, alsaplayer will still only use the front
> > > > speakers.
> > >
> > > it's a problem of alsaplayer.  doesn't work "alsaplayer -d hw:0,2" ?
> >
> > Good question...  That's something I haven't tried.  I'll give it a shot
> > when I get home.
> >
> > However, here's the thing...  alsaplayer uses both the front and rear
> > outputs with the SB Live! by default.  No need to specify one or the
> > other.
> >
> > Now, I understand that since so many more people have SB Live! cards
> > driver development obviously isn't going to focus on the ymfpci cards as
> > much, but I'm curious if this is something that can eventually be enabled?
> > Is it an issue with the yamaha hardware?
> 
> Yamaha hardware has some contraints. The signal route for rear speakers is
> shared with the S/PDIF path, so you cannot use them at same time
> simultaneously.

That's interesting.  I wasn't aware of that.  Of course, I've never
actually tried to use them at the same time, but that's certainly good to
know.

> It's no problem for us to add a new control for the rear
> device (hw:0,2) which can control front speakers as well. We can also
> invert hw:0,2 and hw:0,0 after that change, so the default working mode
> will be "use front & rear speakers".

That would be perfect.  I'm curious though, is this also how it's done
with the the emu10k1 drivers?

Adam


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Re: YMF754 with front & rear output?

[Jaroslav Kysela]

On Wed, 20 Feb 2002, Adam K Kirchhoff wrote:

> > It's no problem for us to add a new control for the rear
> > device (hw:0,2) which can control front speakers as well. We can also
> > invert hw:0,2 and hw:0,0 after that change, so the default working mode
> > will be "use front & rear speakers".
>
> That would be perfect.  I'm curious though, is this also how it's done
> with the the emu10k1 drivers?

No, it's different hardware.

						Jaroslav

-----
Jaroslav Kysela <perex@suse.cz>
Linux Kernel Sound Maintainer
ALSA Project  http://www.alsa-project.org
SuSE Linux    http://www.suse.com


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