Need to know SBLive Chip difference

Need to know SBLive Chip difference

[guan yim]

Hi,

I need to know the difference between SBLive copyrighted in 2003 and 2002. 
Does Creative need to sign NDA before they can disclose such information? 
This is vital now as you can see the newest  SBLive totally has no sound 
output with ALSA 1.0.4rc1

Thanks.

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Re: Need to know SBLive Chip difference

[Jaroslav Kysela]

On Tue, 30 Mar 2004, guan yim wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I need to know the difference between SBLive copyrighted in 2003 and 2002. 
> Does Creative need to sign NDA before they can disclose such information? 

Yes and they're not willing to communicate with us. The communication has
always high delays and very low priority on their side.

> This is vital now as you can see the newest  SBLive totally has no sound 
> output with ALSA 1.0.4rc1

I think that connections to input/output slots changed, so it needs 
only some tests/changes in the emufx.c code.

						Jaroslav

-----
Jaroslav Kysela <perex@suse.cz>
Linux Kernel Sound Maintainer
ALSA Project, SuSE Labs


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Re: Need to know SBLive Chip difference

[guan yim]

>From: p z oooo <pzad@pobox.sk>
>Reply-To: p z oooo <pzad@pobox.sk>
>To: guanyim@hotmail.com
>Subject: Re: [Alsa-devel] Need to know SBLive Chip difference
>Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 08:37:35 +0200

>Right now I compared changes between alsa 1.0.3b  and 1.0.4rc1.
>Diffrence is that 1.0.4rc1 contains support for AC97 codec used in
>2003 SB Live (Sigmatel STAC9758) and I think, that make it not to
>working.
>
>Try to change line in alsa-driver/alsa-kernel/pci/ac97/ac97_codec.c
>{ 0x83847658, 0xffffffff, "STAC9758/59", patch_sigmatel_stac9758,
>	NULL },
>
>to
>{ 0x83847658, 0xffffffff, "STAC9758/59", NULL,	NULL },
>
>Peter Zubaj
>
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>Viac informacii najdete na : http://www.somi.sk/sun/java_desktop.php
>=======================================================
>

Ya thanks I get back the Front L/R and Center/Subwoofer output now.


>Hi,
>
>Personaly I don't think there is diffrence in emu10k1 between 2003 and 
>2002. Diffrence is in AC97 codec. In 2002 is two channel. In 2003 is six 
>channel. I looked for datasheet for this AC97 codec, but it is not public 
>available. I think, that only some initialization is needed.
>
>Could you try OSS driver if it works ???
>
>Peter Zubaj
>

Trying oss thing to see if can get the Rear L/R. Btw, how could I get the 
AC97 spec for this new codec, by subscription and pay some fee to some 
organization? I wish I could help.

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Re: Need to know SBLive Chip difference

[guan yim]

The way I tested that channels is using alsa-lib/test/pcm -c6 -v , this 
should be ok rite? Anyway it can produce 440Hz sound, namely "tone A" on all 
six channels when I am using SBLive 2001, 2002 and Audigy 2001.

I think I don't understand how the module snd-oss-mixer / snd-oss-pcm will 
help; I compile and make install alsa-oss-1.0.4rc1.tar.bz2 without problem. 
I used the aumix and alsamixer, but I could only get Front L/R and 
Centre/Subwoofer analog channel output after the suggested changes make into 
alsa-kernel/pci/ac97/ac97_codec.c . Please advice.

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Re: Need to know SBLive Chip difference

[p z oooo]

I don't mean alsa-oss-emulation, I mean oss driver from 
opensource.creative.com or linux kernel. If it works, than something 
is wrong with alsa (I think it will not work).

In SB Live up to 2002 was used AC97 codec for front and center/lfe 
and another dac for rear channels. I think, that in SB Live 2003 
creative started using 6 channel AC97 codec and rear channel are 
using this AC97 codec too. I thing, that only some initialization is 
needed to get rear channels work (option 1) or rear channels are 
connected on diffrent output from emu10k1 and this needs to be found 
(option 2).

Peter Zubaj

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Re: Need to know SBLive Chip difference

[guan yim]

ok I try the 
ftp://www.se.opensound.com/pub/oss/linux/oss398d-linux-v2x.tar.gz  now.

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Re: Need to know SBLive Chip difference

[guan yim]

Trying to recompile kernel to get rid of something which gives a line in 
/proc/device as:
14 sound

since the oss installer refuse to install..........................

Checking for any previously installed sound drivers... It looks like the 
sound driver is linked in the kernel you are currently executing.
You should configure recompile the kernel without the built in sound driver 
and to
reboot before trying to install OSS/Linux again


Error: OSS cannot be installed because there is another sound driver loaded.
Driver 'sound' has registered the sound device (character major 14) for 
itself.

You seem to have OSS/Free statically linked into kernel.
You need to reconfigure and reinstall the kernel
with sound support disabled.

............................will try my best.


Just FYI. The SIGMATEL codec on SBLive 2003 is:
SIGMATEL
STAC9758T
CB1U004
0318

together with emu10k1 chip as:

EMU10K1-JFF
(C) CREATIVE TECH '97
1G24D02ELQ

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Re: Need to know SBLive Chip difference

[p z oooo]

I don't mean this, this is comercial binary only driver (You can 
try).

This
http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/emu10k1/emu10k1-v0.20a.tar.bz2?
download

or recompile kernel with OSS/free drivers enabled.

Peter Zubaj
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Re: Need to know SBLive Chip difference

[guan yim]

D2CB0:01C4163F]
>
>I don't mean this, this is comercial binary only driver (You can
>try).
>
>This
>http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/emu10k1/emu10k1-v0.20a.tar.bz2?
>download
>
>or recompile kernel with OSS/free drivers enabled.
>
>Peter Zubaj


Ok..........but is there any test program which uses this to output 6 
channels of sine wave, like alsa-lib/test/pcm does?

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Re: Need to know SBLive Chip difference

[guan yim]

FYI too, the Audigy 2001 I have been talking about is using the following 
chips:

SIGMATEL
STAC9721T
LC5A01E
0201

CREATIVE
Audigy(tm)
CA0100-IDF
(C) CREATIVE TECH'01
2BA70KW

I can have 6 channels output with this card. I think if creative uses the 
SIGMATEL chip on that SBLive 2003 (say, "Audigy 2003") then it will create 
same problem later :)

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Re: Need to know SBLive Chip difference

[James Courtier-Dutton]

guan yim wrote:
> FYI too, the Audigy 2001 I have been talking about is using the 
> following chips:
> 
> SIGMATEL
> STAC9721T
> LC5A01E
> 0201
> 
> CREATIVE
> Audigy(tm)
> CA0100-IDF
> (C) CREATIVE TECH'01
> 2BA70KW
> 
> I can have 6 channels output with this card. I think if creative uses 
> the SIGMATEL chip on that SBLive 2003 (say, "Audigy 2003") then it will 
> create same problem later :)
> 

Do any output channels work.
Just try stereo for "front" and "rear" and "center/lfe"
Also, what is the output from
lspci -n |grep 0401

Cheers
James



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Re: Need to know SBLive Chip difference

[guan yim]

>From: p z oooo <pzad@pobox.sk>
>Reply-To: p z oooo <pzad@pobox.sk>
>To: guanyim@hotmail.com
>Subject: Re: [Alsa-devel] Need to know SBLive Chip difference
>Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 14:09:20 +0200

>Could you try change these lines in alsa-driver/alsa-
>kernel/emu10k1/emufx.c
>
>if (emu->fx8010.extout_mask & ((1<<EXTOUT_REAR_L)|1<<EXTOUT_REAR_R)))
>   for (z = 0; z < 2; z++)
>     OP(icode, &ptr, iACC3, EXTOUT(EXTOUT_REAR_L + z), GPR(playback +
>SND_EMU10K1_PLAYBACK_CHANNELS + 2 + z), C_00000000, C_00000000);
>
>to:
>
>if (emu->fx8010.extout_mask & ((1<<EXTOUT_REAR_L)|1<<EXTOUT_REAR_R)))
>   for (z = 0; z < 2; z++) {
>     OP(icode, &ptr, iACC3, EXTOUT(EXTOUT_REAR_L + z), GPR(playback +
>SND_EMU10K1_PLAYBACK_CHANNELS + 2 + z), C_00000000, C_00000000);
>     OP(icode, &ptr, iACC3, EXTOUT(0xd + z), GPR(playback +
>SND_EMU10K1_PLAYBACK_CHANNELS + 2 + z), C_00000000, C_00000000);
>     OP(icode, &ptr, iACC3, EXTOUT(0xf + z), GPR(playback +
>SND_EMU10K1_PLAYBACK_CHANNELS + 2 + z), C_00000000, C_00000000);
>   }
>


Yes I tried this with 1.0.4rc1 and also commented out the control names in 
emumixer.c but still could get the rear analog output.

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Re: Need to know SBLive Chip difference

[p z oooo]

Did you try if oss free drivers works ???
Please try first. What dirstribution you use ??? Maybe it is 
compiled in. Just try
/etc/init.d/alsasound stop
modprobe emu10k1
and play 5.1 sound through oss.
I think you can use osstest application from alsa-oss package

Peter Zubaj


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Re: Need to know SBLive Chip difference

[p z oooo]

on this chip is philips logo ??? I think yes.
A1334

this is Philips UDA1334 2 channel DAC user for rear channel. On 2003 
this is missing, 
then rear channels must go out throught other chip (I think through 
AC97).

Last try,

Change this in alsa-driver/alsa-kernel/pci/emu10k1/emufx.c

if (emu->fx8010.extout_mask & ((1<<EXTOUT_REAR_L)|
(1<<EXTOUT_REAR_R)))

	for (z = 0; z < 2; z++)
		OP(icode, &ptr, iACC3, EXTOUT(EXTOUT_REAR_L + z), GPR
(playback + SND_EMU10K1_PLAYBACK_CHANNELS + 2 + z), C_00000000, 
C_00000000);

to

if (emu->fx8010.extout_mask & ((1<<EXTOUT_REAR_L)|
(1<<EXTOUT_REAR_R)))
	for (z = 0; z < 2; z++) {
		OP(icode, &ptr, iACC3, EXTOUT(EXTOUT_REAR_L + z), GPR
(playback + SND_EMU10K1_PLAYBACK_CHANNELS + 2 + z), C_00000000, 
C_00000000);
		OP(icode, &ptr, iACC3, EXTOUT(0xd + z), GPR(playback 
+ SND_EMU10K1_PLAYBACK_CHANNELS + 2 + z), C_00000000, C_00000000);
		OP(icode, &ptr, iACC3, EXTOUT(0xf + z), GPR(playback 
+ SND_EMU10K1_PLAYBACK_CHANNELS + 2 + z), C_00000000, C_00000000);
		OP(icode, &ptr, iACC3, EXTOUT(0x13 + z), GPR
(playback + SND_EMU10K1_PLAYBACK_CHANNELS + 2 + z), C_00000000, 
C_00000000);
		OP(icode, &ptr, iACC3, EXTOUT(0x15 + z), GPR
(playback + SND_EMU10K1_PLAYBACK_CHANNELS + 2 + z), C_00000000, 
C_00000000);
		OP(icode, &ptr, iACC3, EXTOUT(0x17 + z), GPR
(playback + SND_EMU10K1_PLAYBACK_CHANNELS + 2 + z), C_00000000, 
C_00000000);
		OP(icode, &ptr, iACC3, EXTOUT(0x19 + z), GPR
(playback + SND_EMU10K1_PLAYBACK_CHANNELS + 2 + z), C_00000000, 
C_00000000);
		OP(icode, &ptr, iACC3, EXTOUT(0x1b + z), GPR
(playback + SND_EMU10K1_PLAYBACK_CHANNELS + 2 + z), C_00000000, 
C_00000000);
		OP(icode, &ptr, iACC3, EXTOUT(0x1d + z), GPR
(playback + SND_EMU10K1_PLAYBACK_CHANNELS + 2 + z), C_00000000, 
C_00000000);
	}

and

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Warning, I don't know if this will harm the hardware or not, try at 
your own risk.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There is one register, where center/lfe is enabled for AC97 and SB 
Live for 5.1 SB Live.
in alsa-driver/alsa-kernel/pci/emu10k1/emu10k1_main.c

is

/* 5.1: Enable the additional AC97 Slots. If the emu10k1 version
   does not support this, it shouldn't do any harm */
   snd_emu10k1_ptr_write(emu, AC97SLOT, 0, 
AC97SLOT_CNTR|AC97SLOT_LFE); 

try play with bits in this register for example

snd_emu10k1_ptr_write(emu, AC97SLOT, 0, 
AC97SLOT_CNTR|AC97SLOT_LFE|0x48);

sets bit 4 and 7.
try other bits too.

I send question to creative oss/free emu10k1 driver devel mail list 
with description of this problem, no response so far.
More I can't do for you, sorry.

Peter Zubaj




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Re: Need to know SBLive Chip difference

[guan yim]

Thank you very much. You have been teaching me a lot things. I will give it 
a try.

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